Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Aces High Bug Reports => Topic started by: NHawk on June 06, 2006, 08:05:56 AM
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With a single throttle setup, once you're in the air RPM is no longer tied to throttle. Only Manifold is changing, RPM remains maxed out until you're on the ground again.
Found it true on N1K2 and BF110-G2.
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You cannot cross-link RPM and throttle anymore, if that's what you were trying. You can only have either RPM or throttle associated with the single throttle you have. You have to use the keypad +/- to change RPM while flying.
Unless I've mis-read the problem?
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If you have a single throttle mapped as Throttle, RPM and Manifold are suppose to be linked to it automatically. If they aren't suppose to be, then something is really wrong with this patch and mapping of controls.
EDIT: Experimenting with this offline, the RPMs are not tied to throttle while on the ground since they drift up to max RPM.
I really don't want to invest in a throttle quadrant to control both RPM and Manifold at once. Please link them together if RPM is not mapped.
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Haven't they been like that for a long time already... I mean separate?
Throttle controls the engine manifold and e.g. +/- keys control the "rpm" which actually means the propeller revs... or the prop blade angle which causes the propeller spin either faster or slower.
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They never have been linked to the throttle. Unless you explicitly linked throttle and rpm in the previous version "select joystick". This you can nolonger do.
The resone the RPM changes with throttle on the ground is because there is no longer enof wind threw the prop to keep it turning with low throttle settings. When at cruising speeds the plane is maintaining RPM even at low throttle settings.
RPM would only be reduced when trying to glide, or consurve fuel. WEP always pushes both throttle and RPM to there max.
So the normal AH setup is, Throttle slider controls the (Throttle/manifold pressure,i.e. how much air the engine takes in)
+ & - keys on the key pad control RPM, I.E. the prop governor.
HiTech
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HT...
I'd think the RPM being cross linked to the throttle is (was) pretty common. I know my setup had it linked in one mode and mapped to a dial in another for landing, etc.
While we gained some things with the new mapping system, we lost others. :(
Is there ANY chance of default linking RPM to the throttle? Or at least making it an option checkbox?
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I know my setup had it linked in one mode and mapped to a dial in another for landing
I do not belive previous version had any way of changing modes on axises?
And what purpose does it serve to map them to the same axis?
HiTech
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I might have been dreaming with my settings then. :)
Increased prop RPM results in increased drag slowing accelleration in a dive. So having rpm tied to the same axis as the throttle allows for faster speed increases in a dive when the throttle is chopped. Especially the 110 when in a dive with RPM at full and throttle chopped you gain speed at a slower rate than with both throttle and rpm chopped.
So, placing them both on the same axis makes life simple.
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I have a similar problem. I use an X-52 and have RPM mapped to the slider. It will work on engine 1 but not all engines. Also, if I relog I have to manually remap the input every time and the keyboard RPM commands do not work.
Gotta say the new joystick setup is a [size=10]huge[/size] PITA.
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NHawk: You lost me why would you wish to do what you describe?
I.E. You would chop throttle to to not speed up as much. But you wish to pull rpm back to speed up more?
HiTech
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RPM not sure what you can do to stop having to remap everytime but if you leave rpm 2,3,4 unmapped they slave to rpm 1
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Originally posted by hitech
NHawk: You lost me why would you wish to do what you describe?
I.E. You would chop throttle to to not speed up as much. But you wish to pull rpm back to speed up more?
HiTech
I understand why I would lose you, it's very hard to explain.
The best way I can think of saying it is....
If you're ready to dive on a target you don't want to gain a huge amount of speed in say 2k (throttle and RPM full up) which would cause you to need to bleed off energy. But you want to do it in less than say 8k (throttle chopped, rpm full up) which has you to slow for your target 5k below you. So, you use both throttle and rpm chopped to build speed within 5k and maintain control.
It's a finesse thing I guess.
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NHawk,
I just wonder why you could not achieve the same thing without touching the RPMs.. simply by using a bit more throttle instead of chopping it?
Furthermore, how would you slow your speed to pull out from a dive when the plane begings to compress with your previous linked setup?
If you pull back the trottle, your propeller blades would adjust for less drag and you would not be able to slow the plane as fast... if at all. IMHO, at least the 109s would be very difficult to fly with such linkage.
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Originally posted by NHawk
I understand why I would lose you, it's very hard to explain.
The best way I can think of saying it is....
If you're ready to dive on a target you don't want to gain a huge amount of speed in say 2k (throttle and RPM full up) which would cause you to need to bleed off energy. But you want to do it in less than say 8k (throttle chopped, rpm full up) which has you to slow for your target 5k below you. So, you use both throttle and rpm chopped to build speed within 5k and maintain control.
It's a finesse thing I guess.
NHAWK, you are not making any sense.
I don't think anyone on these boards can understand you either. I think you might have a misunderstanding about something.
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I fully understand what I'm saying and I have a very good grasp on the function of RPM and the drag it creates.
HT..forget it. I'll plug in a 2nd throttle and link it that way.
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Honestly,
at least I was interested in how you were doing it previously and what you achieved with it. Did you have the RPMs reversed compared to throttle, or what was the idea?
Please educate me :) ... I am not saying I am right or anything. I just don't get the idea you had with the lincage.
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Originally posted by BlauK
Honestly,
at least I was interested in how you were doing it previously and what you achieved with it. Did you have the RPMs reversed compared to throttle, or what was the idea?
Please educate me :) ... I am not saying I am right or anything. I just don't get the idea you had with the lincage.
It's obviously very hard to explain. But I'll try one more time, then I'll give up. :)
Low manifold pressure and high RPM produces drag from the props, slowing the gain of speed in a dive. Don't get me wrong, this is beneficial in many cases. But if I'm say 5k over the enemy, I want to be at my maximum maneuverable speed when I engage them without much of a thought process.
I attain that speed by chopping both the throttle and RPM for my dive. This produces less drag and my speed increases much faster than with the prop windmilling at full RPM. As I pull onto my target my speed begins to decrease, so I increase both throttle and RPM to maintain my attack speed.
The key here is the dive and the speed reached withing a given amount of altitude. If I were to leave the RPM set full and try using the manifold pressure to adjust speed, it would be a nightmare. In a dive, the prop is usually spinning faster than max RPM and adjusting the manifold pressure within a small range does little to nothing because of that. So the drag is still there until you reach a break point where manifold pressure actually does something. By that time, you're either under speed or way over speed.
With RPM linked to the throttle, the RPM increases and decreases in proportion to the manifold pressure which increases or decreases drag from the prop giving much better control in a dive.
Keep in mind I don't fly single engine planes very much so I don't know if the effect is the same on them.
Seriously, try it offline. Take a 110-G2 up to 10k, get to cruising speed and chop just the manifold pressure. Then go into a reasonable dive. Say you want to get to 400mph. Watch your speed and altitude and remember where you hit that speed. Now climb back to 10k and repeat, but this time chop both RPM and manifold. You'll find you're at speed at least 2 to 3k earlier than the other way. Gradually increase both manifold and RPM together and you should find you're easily maintaining speed and control.
If you want to take it a step farther, repeat again and see how difficult it is to attain and maintain speed using just manifold pressure within the same distance as chopping both RPM and pressure.
Now landing is a different matter where you want RPM separate from manifold pressure. But, that's another story. :)
Edit: I've already plugged in my spare X45 and linked it's throttle to RPM, so this is all moot at this point.
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I know of other players who had the RPM and Throttle linked.
They do it because in general if you are cutting back on your throttle it's because you want to save fuel. If they are linked you only have to remember to make one adjustment going up and down. If you've ever throttled back a bit and cut your rpms to save fuel, then run into an enemy plane and throttled up but forgot to increase your rpms, you'd understand.
I tried it. it made saving fuel much easier. However I kept colliding on a bogies six because I would chop throttle as I closed in, but the plane would not slow down because I was reducing RPM too. So I changed it back to separate controls.