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General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Krusty on June 07, 2006, 10:50:22 PM

Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Krusty on June 07, 2006, 10:50:22 PM
After fixing the mirrored problem I figured I'd start a thread for this one. I started it about the same time as the Ki84 in the other thread.

"Ruby's Raiders" 550BS/385BG Stationed in England in '45, I believe (might be wrong on that).

BMF not started yet, it's just a preview, to tantalize you.

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1149738467_b17g1_1.jpg)

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1149738478_b17g1_2.jpg)
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Guppy35 on June 07, 2006, 11:22:58 PM
Ruby's Raider's was named in a contest run in Stars & Stripes to name the most beautiful WAC in the ETO.  The winner was PFC Ruby Newall of Long Beach California

Ruby's Raiders flew with the 549th BS, 385th BG, 8th AF based at Great Ashfield, England.

Ruby's Raiders went down on March 24, 1945

A couple of color shots from different sources.  Miss Newell next to the 17 in one of them.
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Guppy35 on June 07, 2006, 11:23:33 PM
More Ruby's Raiders
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Krusty on June 07, 2006, 11:47:18 PM
Amazing! I only had black and white! Thanks!

P.S. You say 549th? Can you confirm? There's one decal sheet out there that says 550th. Decal sheets have been known to be wrong, though.
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Guppy35 on June 07, 2006, 11:53:55 PM
Info on it being a 549th bird from Roger Freeman's "Mighty Eighth in Color".  With his work on the 8th, I'd tend to go with Freeman.  But who knows.  Since they didn't have code letters on those birds, it's always possible it bounced between the two squadrons.

That had the photo with Miss Newell and the 17

Other image is from "B17 Flying Fortress in Color" by Steve Birdsall.  He only states 385th BG.

More on Ruby here.

http://www.riveting-images.com/B-17_Prints_-_Part_I/B-17_Prints_-_Part_2/B-17_Prints__Part_3/Riveting_Images_presents__Ruby/riveting_images_presents__ruby.html
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Krusty on June 07, 2006, 11:59:00 PM
On the tail, the plane code was "G" and the serial was 46483, I just haven't put them on this skin yet. Does that help any, or no?

I think I'll go with 549th, as it sounds a much more credible source.
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Kev367th on June 08, 2006, 12:31:06 AM
Thought this may be useful -
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Krusty on June 08, 2006, 10:49:34 AM
It might just be the default materials file, but I think I have to tone down the colors (esp. the red).
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Birddogg on June 08, 2006, 01:19:33 PM
Great skin!!! keep it up Krusty!
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Lord ReDhAwK on June 08, 2006, 06:20:46 PM
What a great idea for a skin!  Cant wait to see the shots of her in the air Krusty.

ReDhAwK
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Krusty on June 10, 2006, 01:17:52 AM
More progress. I've done a lot of the bare metal finish. Not 100% but looks a heckuva lot better.

I need help with the red, though. No matter what color I choose, it comes out neon. Is there some sort of property in the materials file that says "glow like a lightbulb", and if so how do I turn it off?

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1149920135_b17g1_3.jpg)

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1149920149_b17g1_4.jpg)

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1149920160_b17g1_5.jpg)

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1149920170_b17g1_6.jpg)

EDIT: Also what color should the bat-wing shaped antenna in front of the astro dome be? It's a light tan but I think that's because of the default skin having it on an anti-glare patch of the same color...
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Kev367th on June 10, 2006, 06:49:55 AM
Try reducing the saturation on the red, it may help.
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Lord ReDhAwK on June 10, 2006, 01:32:03 PM
Heya Krusty.  Wow, that IS a little bright :D

If you are using Photoshop, you could adjust the curves on the red layer.  However, I think you are still going to run into a problem with the materials file wanting to make the skin "glow."  Any chance of using a more muted materials list like one of Kev's Spits?  May be easier to adjust the reds after that.

One more thing.  Does the red color show that bright in your bmp or is it just that bright after materials is applied?  What is the rgb for that shade of red you're using?

I have no doubt you will (and probably have already) worked this out.  G'luck sir.

ReDhAwK :cool:
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Krusty on June 10, 2006, 01:34:05 PM
It doesn't show that bright in the bmp. I've toned it down a bit by using darker shades of red, but it's still too bright for me.
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Krusty on June 10, 2006, 01:41:17 PM
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1149964845_b17g1_7.jpg)

I'm looking to mute it a little more.

P.S. I know the star is on the wrong wing
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Guppy35 on June 10, 2006, 11:16:54 PM
Krusty.  Just to confirm it's 549th.

The squadrons of the 385th used colors on the prop bosses.  548th was blue, 549th was yellow, 550th was red, 551st was green.

Note in the second photo I posted that the prop boss is yellow.

Can you do that on the props on the AH model?
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Krusty on June 10, 2006, 11:45:44 PM
Thank you for clarifying that Guppy. Much obliged.

Yes there is a spot for the prop and I will make it yellow. :aok
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Krusty on June 11, 2006, 12:46:03 AM
Done with the basics. I think I've got the red the right tone (or at least an acceptable tone, non-neon), the metal and all that is sorted out. Now I just need to work (a lot) on weathering, detailing, and all the "make it look nice" stuff.

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1150004688_b17g1_8.jpg)
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Pooface on June 11, 2006, 07:42:05 AM
looking very nice!:aok
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Krusty on July 01, 2006, 11:33:07 PM
The only thing that's really missing is 1.5 BILLION rivets. I was looking at the way the default skin (Bit O Lace) has them and it's got so many rivets crammed into each panel that there's just a random noise pattern of dots. The problem is that there were too many rivets on the real thing to really simulate them with 1-pixel dots. I've been unable to solve this problem, so far, and have left them off. Looking at the screenies I don't see much of a loss without them, but what do you all think?

First image is large as hell, others I could crop a bit.

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1151814543_b17g1_9.jpg)

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1151814555_b17g1_10.jpg)

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1151814579_b17g1_11.jpg)

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1151814618_b17g1_12.jpg)

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1151814639_b17g1_13.jpg)
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Kazaa on July 02, 2006, 07:33:24 AM
Nice, going to get me one of these :aok
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Krusty on July 02, 2006, 10:44:29 AM
What do you think about the absence of rivets? Do you think it matters on big bombers?
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Krusty on July 02, 2006, 11:55:58 AM
I'm also not sure about upper wing stencils and what-not. Some B17s had black lines in certain areas. I'm not sure if they were no-walk areas or what. Some didn't. I have no images of the upper surfaces of Ruby so I can't be sure.

The decal sheet I used as markings placement reference didn't show any -- but it wasn't a full decal sheet, just a detail sheet, so they might have left all other markings off.

Then there's the war-time photos. They don't even have markings on the prop blades. After all it *was* factory fresh. So maybe this particular craft didn't have many stencils/markings on it.
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Kazaa on July 02, 2006, 12:51:09 PM
More rivits would be a nice touch,

Also, the engine dust looks to perfect.
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Krusty on July 02, 2006, 01:16:36 PM
By "too perfect" do you mean too uniform? I can play around with it and see what I can come up with.


Does anybody have a good B17G rivet reference?
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Krusty on July 02, 2006, 02:01:59 PM
Tweaks to the exhaust... Darker, disrupted, and more irregular.
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Fencer51 on July 02, 2006, 08:21:35 PM
Thats alot better.

As to the rivets, maybe you could do the ones nearest to the fusalage on the wings that would be seen from the turrets, or just the bigest rivets (if any).
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Krusty on July 02, 2006, 08:40:47 PM
I think folks would take a look at that and think I did a half-assed job. To quote Homer Simpson, "Aww, but I was using my whole ass!"
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Reynolds on July 02, 2006, 09:41:46 PM
Pretty! Finally another B-17 skin! Now all we need is olive drab!
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Lord ReDhAwK on July 02, 2006, 10:03:04 PM
Not trying to hijack your thread here Krusty.  Just to answer Renyolds.  I believe that someone is working on Nine of Nine.  Im almost positive its Nine of Nine.  Should be a gorgeous bird when she's done.  

ReDhAwK
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Reynolds on July 02, 2006, 10:06:36 PM
Awww. I was kind of hoping for 'Sally B', and a Memphis Belle would be nice. You know what would be cool? If they made it so you could create your own skin a lot easier! Like, they give you the model, and you just paste in colors, and add a nose art picture and tail pic, that way everyone has a unique skin, and we arent all Memphis Belle, or Nine of Nine. Wouldnt that be awesome? And it shouldnt be TOO hard to do... just a lot of programming. But it would be awesome!
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Lord ReDhAwK on July 02, 2006, 10:29:33 PM
Personally, I enjoy all the work that goes into each skin I make.  I like making my panel lines and rivets.  Everyones is always different and variety is the spice of life.  I cant count the number of threads on correct rivet layout, panel lines are wrong, lights on the underside of the 51 wing are on the other wing, ect.

Ruby is a perfect example of this.  In actuality, the B17 being such a large bird,  rivets would NEVER be seen.  More specifically, they would be so small in comparison that a 1x pixel dot is way to large.  Therefore, Krusty has elected not to model them.  Some agree with that choice and some may not.  However, the skinner made the decision and has added another variety to the mix.  

With all the time and effort each skinner puts into the work, never in combat, have I looked to see the individual rivets on the enemy aircraft :D

Don't think this is a jab at you as I personally dont know you but the text will sound harsh but I dont mean it that way.  If you would like to see a specific Olive Drab 17 flying then dont wait on us.  Make yourself a template and get to skinnin.  Every member on this board will be very happy to help you out.  :aok

This message brought to you by the AHSkinnerstribe.  Please make all donations at least 11% by volume and bring enough for everybody.

ReDhAwK
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Reynolds on July 02, 2006, 11:44:02 PM
Okay, then, ill do it! I need lots of help though. I dont know where to start :(

But i do have some real good up-close photos of the Sally B. Ill do that one, but i need someone to help walk me through it. And, will HiTech mind if there is a naked woman on the nose?
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Guppy35 on July 03, 2006, 02:01:43 AM
Just remember that "Sally B' is not a historical paint job if that's one you were thinking of.  And of course Memphis Belle was an F model not a G.
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Reynolds on July 03, 2006, 02:06:16 AM
You sure Sally B isnt historical?
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Guppy35 on July 03, 2006, 02:22:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Reynolds
You sure Sally B isnt historical?


Quoting from Sally B's website:
http://sallyb.dcgservices.com/history_frameset.php

"Businessman and pilot, Ted White brought F-BGSR to Britain via Biggin Hill to the Imperial War Museum (IWM), Duxford, as N17TE, in March 1975, to begin a new life as Sally B, named after Ted’s long-time companion Elly Sallingboe. Sally B made her debut at the 1975 Biggin Hill Air Fair, flying as the USAAF World War Two Memorial Flight. The struggle to operate Sally B successfully in this important role had begun."


Yep, absolutely non historical.   If you look at the photos, She's a G model, wearing codes she wore for her work in the Memphis Belle movie.  There are no bars to the star and circle and she has DF-A of the 91st BG on her sides, which were the codes for Memphis Belle.  Interestingly she still retains the F model top turret installed for Memphis Belle, yet has the nose turret of the G.

She also carries Memphis Belle nose art on her right side with Sally B on the left.

And she originally wore 457th markings when she was still all silver prior to Memphis Belle, the movie.
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Reynolds on July 03, 2006, 02:24:11 AM
Oh. Okay, thanks. I learned something new! Any other nice Olive Drabs?
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Guppy35 on July 03, 2006, 02:26:35 AM
Nope, Sally B is the only 17 operating in England.  "Pink Lady" operating out of France sometimes flies alongside her.  I saw them both at Legends last July.  Interestingly enough "Pink Lady" (another ficticious name) has an actual history as an 8th AF Pathfinder aircraft, right at the end of the war.  Sadly they've not taken her back to her wartime markings.
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Reynolds on July 03, 2006, 02:29:38 AM
But there IS another 17 in America that flies as both 9 of 9 and Sally B, though i think they lost her in a fire a year or two ago. I have seen pics of them flying side by side. Forget where though... but yeah, thanks! I learned something new!
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Reynolds on July 03, 2006, 02:30:46 AM
Are there any other Olive Drabs with very SMALL nose art?
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Guppy35 on July 03, 2006, 02:36:34 AM
Trust me on this one :)  Only one Sally B.

909 is the Collings Foundation bird that flies the country regularly.  The CAF has Texas Ranger (Grounded at the moment)  They also have Sentimental Journey that flies in natural metal 457th BG markings.

Yankee Air Force has "Yankee Lady"
Also flying are Dave Tallichet's "Memphis Belle"
Doc Hosper's "Chuckie"
EAA "Aluminum Overcast
Evergreen Museums B17G (unnamed)
B17G Fuddy Duddy (just changed ownership)
The newly restored "Liberty Belle" has been flying about a year.

Paul Allen has a B17E he's restoring to flight.
There is a B17F that is flyable, but not flown called "Boeing B"
The well known "Swamp Ghost" a B17E that was sitting intact in a swamp in New Guiniea was just recovered and on it's way home.

And there are lots of gate guardians and museum birds, as well as the original Memphis Belle and another combat vet B17G Shoo Shoo Baby at the AF Museum.  And the NASM has the B17D "The Swoose"

Throw in the recovered and restored to static "My Gal Sal" B17E and one recovered a while back from a Canadian river that is being restored along with a couple others and you've got it for B17s.  At least what I can recall off the top of my head :)  There are a couple more in museums in England too
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Guppy35 on July 03, 2006, 02:37:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Reynolds
Are there any other Olive Drabs with very SMALL nose art?


Jeez, how many do ya want? :)  Can bury ya in profiles and photos of OD B17Gs with nose art, small or large :)
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Reynolds on July 03, 2006, 02:48:40 AM
Im obsesive. Ill take as many as you have patience to give!
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Kazaa on July 03, 2006, 03:57:39 AM
Krusty, that looks a lot better now.

In the other pictures the dust looked too stright & 1 shade. (to perfect)

But it's a lot better now :aok
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: gatt on July 03, 2006, 04:21:18 AM
Yes, its good! ...................... Now start with the 205  :huh ;)
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Reynolds on July 03, 2006, 04:25:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
Trust me on this one :)  Only one Sally B.

909 is the Collings Foundation bird that flies the country regularly.  The CAF has Texas Ranger (Grounded at the moment)  They also have Sentimental Journey that flies in natural metal 457th BG markings.

Yankee Air Force has "Yankee Lady"
Also flying are Dave Tallichet's "Memphis Belle"
Doc Hosper's "Chuckie"
EAA "Aluminum Overcast
Evergreen Museums B17G (unnamed)
B17G Fuddy Duddy (just changed ownership)
The newly restored "Liberty Belle" has been flying about a year.

Paul Allen has a B17E he's restoring to flight.
There is a B17F that is flyable, but not flown called "Boeing B"
The well known "Swamp Ghost" a B17E that was sitting intact in a swamp in New Guiniea was just recovered and on it's way home.

And there are lots of gate guardians and museum birds, as well as the original Memphis Belle and another combat vet B17G Shoo Shoo Baby at the AF Museum.  And the NASM has the B17D "The Swoose"

Throw in the recovered and restored to static "My Gal Sal" B17E and one recovered a while back from a Canadian river that is being restored along with a couple others and you've got it for B17s.  At least what I can recall off the top of my head :)  There are a couple more in museums in England too


Yankee air force has the 17 that flew as Sally B. I have an article on it in one of my magazines as well as a photo. I will try to find it and put it up here. But yeah, thanks for the info! :D And damn! You remember ALL that! WOW!!! I wish I knew that much!
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Reynolds on July 03, 2006, 04:30:28 AM
Oh, and if you dont mind, can you list some of your sources? I want to know as much as you! lol. That way i can study and learn some more!
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Krusty on July 03, 2006, 03:23:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by gatt
Yes, its good! ...................... Now start with the 205  :huh ;)


The 205 is a right b**** to skin. I'm finding that out. The same wing is used for both upper wings, only it's mapped smaller on one side than it is on the other! The default skin is almost useless because none of the panel lines match up to the moving surfaces (except the rudder, maybe). It's got mirrors, stretches, and hidden spots for some odd reason. I'm working on it as if there was no default, and it's taking more time.

As for Ruby, I am going to submit it without rivets. So aside from that, were there any other comments?
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Fencer51 on July 03, 2006, 04:12:00 PM
Yeah the signiture on the nose art is missing! :rofl

Looks great, you have inspired me to try a B-17 after I finish a couple more 109G6s.
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Krusty on July 03, 2006, 04:21:56 PM
Actually it was there! It just got lost in the resizing.

EDIT: It was just a couple of white pixels anyways :)
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: gatt on July 04, 2006, 03:20:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
The 205 is a right b**** to skin. I'm finding that out. The same wing is used for both upper wings, only it's mapped smaller on one side than it is on the other! The default skin is almost useless because none of the panel lines match up to the moving surfaces (except the rudder, maybe). It's got mirrors, stretches, and hidden spots for some odd reason. I'm working on it as if there was no default, and it's taking more time


Uh, oh ... it seems I'll have to send some good wine bottles to Colorado :rolleyes: ;)
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Reynolds on July 04, 2006, 04:00:54 AM
Hey, can somone teach me to do a skin?
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Fencer51 on July 06, 2006, 10:34:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
What do you think about the absence of rivets? Do you think it matters on big bombers?


Just for reference on what you can see out on the wing.  I think its appropriate to not do the rivets.
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Krusty on July 06, 2006, 11:51:31 AM
Thanks, Fencer. That does ease my mind a bit. On that wing I can see a bunch of rivets (about 10 or so, towards the wing root, close to the camera) that would all fit inside a single 1-pixel dot in AH.
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Citabria on July 06, 2006, 11:18:37 PM
if you think tracing the rivets is bad imagine researching every bulkhead and stringer that is behind those rivets in order to know where the rivets go! :D

it about drove me insane making that default b17 skin hehe.

personally i like the rivets it adds more detail and I love detail.
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Krusty on July 07, 2006, 11:54:02 AM
Normally I agree, but I think that they're over-rated. I like detail, but  rivets for the sake of detail isn't necessary. There was a FW190 I did a while back and I tested it without any rivets -- and it looked sweet. To me, the only thing rivets do is break up the solid colors of the paint scheme. If you do this through other means then the rivets are pointless.

Just one thought on the matter.
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Reynolds on July 07, 2006, 04:58:04 PM
I fly B-17s a lot, and i have NEVER noticed rivets from my views. They surely look nice, but are not noticed by pilots not looking for them. So its entirely up to you.
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Fencer51 on July 07, 2006, 07:10:04 PM
Well I started my B-17 today and the rivets are numerous and while very well done, they do not represent the enormous quantity of what is actually there.  Its just impossible to show all the rivets.  So, I am following Krusty's lead and not going to do the small rivets.  If I come across any large rivets (bolts) I will do those.
Title: B17G Ruby's Raiders
Post by: Lord ReDhAwK on July 07, 2006, 08:03:09 PM
Salute Lord Fencer,

I have numerous shots of Yankee Lady detailing rivet layout all over the bird if you would like em.  Very large pics, so I may need to zip em and mail em to you instead of posting.  All in jpeg format.  Let me know if you (or anyone else) would like em.  Example atached:



ReDhAwK