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General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Mister Fork on June 09, 2006, 12:00:27 AM

Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: Mister Fork on June 09, 2006, 12:00:27 AM
Hey all,

I'm working on a RPS for the PTO, but instead of the usual USAAF/USN vs the IJA/IJN, I'm swapping out the US for the Commonwealth countries (CC) involved in the PTO (New Zealand, Australia, Britian, and Canada).

Here is what I have for the first matchup of early 1940.  I do know that for the CC had the Hurri I and the Spit IA.  I also know that the P-40B was also there but I can't remember who had it. I also DON'T know if the variants listed below for the years even saw action in the PTO.  So, please take a look, and if you have recommendations, please let me know.

Also, I'm looking for IJA/IJN subs for:
- GM4 (betty)
- Ki-21 (sally)
- Ki-44
- JM2 Raiden
- Ki-100

1940
Hurricane Mk I  
Spitfire Mk IA
vs
A6M2
B5N2
D3A-1

1941
Boston MkIII
Hurri IIC
Spitfire V
vs
A6M2
B5N2
D3A-1

1942
Hurri IID
Seafire IIC
Spitfire Mk IX
vs
A6M2
GM4 sub

1943
Mosquito
Spitfire VIII
Typhoon IB
vs
Ki-61
A6M5b
Ki-44 sub
JM2 Raiden sub

1944
Spitfire XVI?
Tempest V?
vs
Ki-67
Ki-84-la
A6M5b
Ki-21 sub

1945
Spitfire?
Typhoon?
Tempest?
vs
N1K2-J
Ki-84
Ki-100 sub
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: storch on June 09, 2006, 07:01:48 AM
Aussies and Kiwis flew all flavors of P40s
The RCN flew Hogs, Hellcats and Martletts
some CC flew P400s as well as lightningIs (without superchargers)

would it be too much of a stretch to add the Yak as a sub for the P400?
it might be a bit of a stretch to add the PG in place of the lightningI but I don't think anyone would whine.

The JU88s will have to fill the roles of the GM4 and Ki21 even though that would be a big stretch in the case of the Ki21.

to supplement the weak A6M2 from 1941 onward I would add the A6M5 to make up for the absence of the A6M3.  you have spitIX against the A6M2,  the arena will be a ghost town the spit guys will be running the whole time and fun for no one.  I would consider adding a 109F-4 at that time but it would be a tropical european set up for all intent and purpose.

Ki44 sub should be a 109, The F closely matches it's numbers.

J2M= 190A5

Ki 100, the tony is close enough to this model to be almost redundant but the MC205 might not be too much of a stretch.

add the Bf110C-4 as a sub for the Ki45, I know one guy who will fly it.  then there is the possibilty of add adding the MC202 as a sub for the Ki43.
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: Shifty on June 09, 2006, 07:49:04 AM
Agree with the A6M5 subbing for the A6M3.

Were the Typhoon, and Tempest even used in the PTO? I'm not sure but I don't think they were. Drop them, and possibly look at limiting the Spit models to the MK IX as the latest version allowed. Then you wouldn't need to sub for all the missing Jap rides.

The N1K2, Ki-84, Ki-61, and A6M5 , would match up well with the Spit9, SeafireII, and Hurr II's. Use the TBM , and Seafire on any British CV's your planning on including. You could also use the Hurri I, on CV's. Possibly base the Spit9 from CV's the last week to represent the SeafireMkIII.

That might keep the setup more to the Commonwealth/ Imperial Japan setup your looking for. If you throw in a bunch of USAAF/USN , and Luftwaffe birds , your going to have a bastardized ETO. Or maybe a PETO.

These are just ideas , others may have more info on aircraft availability , but simpiler may be better in this case. Justa thought.
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: storch on June 09, 2006, 08:38:06 AM
what map are you considering?  you could go from 1943 onwards an not sub anything at all.
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: TexMurphy on June 09, 2006, 09:02:11 AM
Id rather NOT sub at all.

Seriously subing in the pacific makes it just into another Spits vs 109s+190s RPS...

Id rather do a RPS like this

Set 1

Hurricane Mk I
Spitfire Mk IA
P40b
TBM
SBD
vs
A6M2
B5N2
D3A-1

Set 2

SpitV
P40e
F4F
TBM
SBD
BostonIII
vs
A6M5b
Ki-61
B5N2
D3A-1

Set 3

F6F-5
F4U-1
F4U-1D
SpitXVI
Typhoon
Mossie
vs
A6M5b
N1K2-J
Ki-84-la
Ki-61
Ki-67

Yes screw the years... with the gaps we have in the jap plane set we cant do years in a good way so do 3 ballanced sets that roughly represent early, mid and late war.

Tex
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: Karnak on June 09, 2006, 11:11:08 AM
The Typhoon, Tempest, Hurricane Mk IId, Spitfire Mk I, Spitfire Mk IX and Spitfire Mk XVI never served in the Pacific.  I am not sure about the Hurricane Mk IIc.

The Spitfire Mk V and Spitfire Mk VIII were the major versions used in the Pacific.  The Spitfire Mk XIV saw some use at the tail end of the war in the CBI.

The Mosquito Mk VI was used in the CBI from the end of 1943 on, though in small numbers.  I seem to recall some use elsewhere in the Pacific too.

There were some Hurricane Mk Is in the Pacific early on, though I don't know how much use they saw.
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: Shifty on June 09, 2006, 11:22:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
The Typhoon, Tempest, Hurricane Mk IId, Spitfire Mk I, Spitfire Mk IX and Spitfire Mk XVI never served in the Pacific.  I am not sure about the Hurricane Mk IIc.

The Spitfire Mk V and Spitfire Mk VIII were the major versions used in the Pacific.  The Spitfire Mk XIV saw some use at the tail end of the war in the CBI.

The Mosquito Mk VI was used in the CBI from the end of 1943 on, though in small numbers.  I seem to recall some use elsewhere in the Pacific too.

There were some Hurricane Mk Is in the Pacific early on, though I don't know how much use they saw.


Thanks Karnak.

The Commonwealth involvement in the Pacific  doesn't get a lot of attention, we needed somebody that knows this info to step up.:aok

It seems you could make a decent setup with the planes mentioned above. If all the CW troops have for a fighter at the begining is the Hurri I................. Well all the IJ's have is the A6M2. Maybe karnak can expand on the Royal Navy but it doesn't seem like their CV based air had ttremendous striking power. The TBM and Seafire would seem good if added later, and no need for an SBD or any other US , or German aircraft. This looks pretty interesting with the planes available for both sides.:)
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: RedDg on June 09, 2006, 11:29:51 AM
we need jugs
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: Shifty on June 09, 2006, 11:44:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by RedDg
we need jugs


I think theres a Hooters right outside the main gate at Pearl.;)
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: storch on June 09, 2006, 12:17:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by RedDg
we need jugs
get married or see urchin.  big head todd often praises urchin's jugs in poetry and song.
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: storch on June 09, 2006, 12:18:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TexMurphy
Id rather NOT sub at all.

Seriously subing in the pacific makes it just into another Spits vs 109s+190s RPS...

Id rather do a RPS like this

Set 1

Hurricane Mk I
Spitfire Mk IA
P40b
TBM
SBD
vs
A6M2
B5N2
D3A-1

Set 2

SpitV
P40e
F4F
TBM
SBD
BostonIII
vs
A6M5b
Ki-61
B5N2
D3A-1

Set 3

F6F-5
F4U-1
F4U-1D
SpitXVI
Typhoon
Mossie
vs
A6M5b
N1K2-J
Ki-84-la
Ki-61
Ki-67

Yes screw the years... with the gaps we have in the jap plane set we cant do years in a good way so do 3 ballanced sets that roughly represent early, mid and late war.

Tex
 good idea Tex
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: Mister Fork on June 09, 2006, 05:07:50 PM
I like Tex's idea.  Simple RPS with Karnaks' suggestions

Set 1

Hurricane Mk I
Spitfire Mk IA
P40b
TBM
SBD
vs
A6M2
B5N2
D3A-1

Set 2

SpitVb
P40e
F4F
TBM
SBD
BostonIII
vs
A6M5b
Ki-61
B5N2
D3A-1

Set 3
SeafireIIc (CV only)
Spit Vb
SpitVIII
TBM
SBD
BostonIII
vs
Ki-84-la
Ki-67

Set 4
Spitfire VIII
Spitfire IX
TBM
SBD
BostonIII
vs
Ki-84-la
NIK2
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: Shifty on June 09, 2006, 05:14:04 PM
This will be a unique setup , havent ever seen one like it. Great Idea Fork!

Hopefully it will be as fun as it looks on paper. Thanks for the ideas and info, Tex and Karnak!:aok
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: Panzzer on June 09, 2006, 05:18:09 PM
Yeah, it does look good, and I am sure it will be fun. :)

I fear I'll be too busy and/or tired next week to fly it, but I hope I can have an hour or two to try it..
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: storch on June 09, 2006, 05:29:58 PM
one minor change, leave the Ki61 in all the way to the end. even if you don't the set up is great.  good job.
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: Shifty on June 09, 2006, 07:43:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
one minor change, leave the Ki61 in all the way to the end. even if you don't the set up is great.  good job.


Good idea.
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: TexMurphy on June 10, 2006, 05:57:44 AM
I agree with Kamak´s changes to the rps...

As far as Mister Forks changes I would agree with storch.. just leave the Ki61 in till the end...

But a question.... why take out the F6F-5, F4U-1 and F4U-1D?

Tex
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: E25280 on June 10, 2006, 12:01:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TexMurphy
But a question.... why take out the F6F-5, F4U-1 and F4U-1D?

Tex
I am sure just to keep it RAF vs Japan instead of USN vs Japan.  A few of the US planes are needed to fill gaps in the plane set (SBD, TBM), but I agree with keeping it to a minimum.

Any particular reason why you are removing the Ki-67 from the Japanese?  Even if it isn't used much, I think the Japanese should at least have bombers available.

I hope to be able to get in at some point.  My absence has not been intentional, nor necessarily voluntary. . . Speaking of which, got to go.

all :aok
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: Mister Fork on June 10, 2006, 02:35:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TexMurphy
I agree with Kamak´s changes to the rps...

As far as Mister Forks changes I would agree with storch.. just leave the Ki61 in till the end...

But a question.... why take out the F6F-5, F4U-1 and F4U-1D?

Tex
Trying to keep it Commonwealth made aircraft. I've also removed the F4F. :)

I'll keep the Ki-61 and the Ki-67 (forgot about those)...

BTW - it's up!
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: TexMurphy on June 10, 2006, 04:32:10 PM
I thought the Commonwealth DID use F6F and F4U...

Tex
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: Shifty on June 10, 2006, 08:15:26 PM
He said Commonwealth made aircraft, not Commonwealth used aircraft.:)
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: storch on June 10, 2006, 10:35:08 PM
commonwealth aircraft corp. made P51s under license (CA-15) starting with the B and then the D.  they also developed the excellent CA-15 "Kangaroo"  which was arguably the very best piston engined fighter ever.
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: Slash27 on June 10, 2006, 10:42:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
commonwealth aircraft corp. made P51s under license (CA-15) starting with the B and then the D.  they also developed the excellent CA-15 "Kangaroo"  which was arguably the very best piston engined fighter ever.


Got a wbesite or something with more info? Im tired and too lazy to research it.














Bring the Boomerang to AH!!
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: Platano on June 11, 2006, 02:25:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
commonwealth aircraft corp. made P51s under license (CA-15) starting with the B and then the D.  they also developed the excellent CA-15 "Kangaroo"  which was arguably the very best piston engined fighter ever.



can i get a link or pic on this plane??
Title: Look what I found :-)
Post by: Platano on June 11, 2006, 03:37:37 AM
I logged in the AvA at about 3 this morning after a night of getting TwIsTeD :rolleyes: :D  and it looks like someone put all the japanese fleets together...


Looks like a scene from Pearl Harbor..Kinda kewl :)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/KinGKillaTFD/ahss7.jpg)


Hehe the whole japanese pacific fleet...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/KinGKillaTFD/ahss8.jpg)



Concentrated ack from 6 cv's is CrAzYYYYY:rolleyes: :confused: :huh :O
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/KinGKillaTFD/ahss9.jpg)
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: storch on June 11, 2006, 06:56:23 AM
A couple of corrections.  the first one being a brain fart.  The P-51 was actually CA-17 "Mustang".  I have no idea why I typed CA-15 but I suspect my fourth whiskey sour may have had something to do with it.

secondly the CA-17s were post war deliveries bye and large.

http://www.adf-serials.com/gallery
http://www.adf-serials.com/2a62.shtml   this is for the kagaroo
http://www.adf-serials.com/2a68.shtml for the ponies

pretty cool site
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: Shifty on June 11, 2006, 08:46:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
A couple of corrections.  the first one being a brain fart.  The P-51 was actually CA-17 "Mustang".  I have no idea why I typed CA-15 but I suspect my fourth whiskey sour may have had something to do with it.

secondly the CA-17s were post war deliveries bye and large.

http://www.adf-serials.com/gallery
http://www.adf-serials.com/2a62.shtml   this is for the kagaroo
http://www.adf-serials.com/2a68.shtml for the ponies

pretty cool site


The soultion is to ethier stop at three whiskey sours, or press on to eight whiskey sours.;)
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: storch on June 11, 2006, 08:47:41 AM
I did press on i just didn't play or post any longer but five was beddy bye
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: Redd on June 11, 2006, 04:32:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Slash27
Got a wbesite or something with more info? Im tired and too lazy to research it.




Bring the Boomerang to AH!!



I agree !
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: RTR on June 12, 2006, 07:46:36 AM
If you drink all the whiskey the first night you open the bottle, it won't go sour.

sheesh, you should know this already. I gotta learn you guys everything!

Haven't had a chance to check out the set up yet, but can hardly wait. It looks like fun!

cheers,
RTR
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: storch on June 12, 2006, 07:59:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by RTR
If you drink all the whiskey the first night you open the bottle, it won't go sour.

sheesh, you should know this already. I gotta learn you guys everything!

Haven't had a chance to check out the set up yet, but can hardly wait. It looks like fun!

cheers,
RTR
:rofl
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: storch on June 28, 2006, 06:50:19 AM
as we approach the wrap up of this setup I would like to say that it was possibly the very best ever PAC setup I ever participated in.  good job fork.
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: E25280 on June 28, 2006, 03:16:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
as we approach the wrap up of this setup I would like to say that it was possibly the very best ever PAC setup I ever participated in.  good job fork.
Agreed.  This one was thouroughly enjoyable.  I wish I could have been around more for it, but as always, real life gets in the way of my online fantasies . . .

all who participated! :aok
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: TexMurphy on June 28, 2006, 03:20:35 PM
What about doing a similar setup but with F4Fs, F6Fs and F4Us...

Tex
Title: Idea for PTO RPS: Commonwealth vs Japan
Post by: eh on June 30, 2006, 09:54:10 AM
Quote
If you drink all the whiskey the first night you open the bottle, it won't go sour.


Yup. The backwash keeps it sweet.  :D