Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: bkbandit on June 11, 2006, 07:32:48 PM
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I seen the new simpsons episode today and it made me think, is anything built here in america anymore. In the episode mr burns moves the plant to india and sends homer to run the plant(its a funny episode, i just wish there werent so many political messages in it). Alot of the major companys build there factorys overseas, caddillacs are built in japan. Its sad that the nikes on my feet are made by some asia kid and my chevy is built in mexico. What happen to american made. The only thing i think we still make here r weapons(thank god).
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Might as well thank the Wal-Mart mentality.
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Wal Mart mentality? No, not at all.
It's the mentality that we don't want to pay rediculous prices for basic objects.
No one wants to pay 30 dollars for a plastic piece that could be sold for 2 if made somewhere else.
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Right... because anything other than Walmart prices are ridiculous.
Most people just want the lowest price possible. They don't think about the high cost of hiring someone in this country. They give absolutely no thought at supporting the local economy or the local merchants or the local labor.
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I would say you are overreacting to a cartoon. Manufacturing is still a significant part of the US economy. Factories have always moved to cheaper labor locations. They moved from the northeast and midwest to southern states years ago in search of more (or some) profit.
As long as people like you are willing to pay the price you paid for shoes that cost about $1 to produce, companies will continue to manufacture them anywhere.
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You pay more in the long run if you buy cheap foreign-made junk because you'll have to replace it far more often.
My television set is going on 20 years old. Most of my furniture is older than I am. My desktop fan was made in the 1950's. My good silverware was made in the 1920's.
I currently own ZERO appliances or pieces of furnature made between 1995 and 2005 (automobiles notwithstanding) because it was all imported crap that broke. The only gaurantee that comes with the foreign crap made nowdays is the gaurantee you'll have to replace it in short order. The last *new* desk chair I bought collapsed out from under me in less than a year due to poor-quality metal.
J_A_B
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"Most people just want the lowest price possible. They don't think about the high cost of hiring someone in this country. They give absolutely no thought at supporting the local economy or the local merchants or the local labor."
This is all a lie anyway. As Rolex points out, Nike selling those $1 sweatshop shoes for $100 a pair sure as heck isn't passing on their savings to the consumers.
J_A_B
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It's not just the consumers that are doing this to the price, it's the producers.
Anything manufactured in the US is made at extremely high costs due to taxes, restrictions, ecological conditions, wages, insurance... The list goes on and on. Not only would producers have to produce less, but they would have to sell it to an extreme cost to us.
Of course, this is all layed out in any basic economics class. Though, it might be much to expect most of you to understand basic economics, or even think through the problem.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
Its sad that the nikes on my feet are made by some asia kid and my chevy is built in mexico.
My Honda was (96%) made in Marysville, Ohio.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Of course, this is all layed out in any basic economics class. Though, it might be much to expect most of you to understand basic economics, or even think through the problem.
:huh
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Of course, this is all layed out in any basic economics class. Though, it might be much to expect most of you to understand basic economics, or even think through the problem.
Dang..I wish I was as smart as I was when I was your age :)
shamus
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toyota has factorys here, why cant we build r caddillacs here instead of japan. And they get they build it for cheaper(much cheaper) but they dont pass the price to the customer(the prices go up). I can imagine what the hell they will want for the new "korean" built camaro. ANd still the big companys cut corners so there products end up fallin apart. I have a friend that has a detail business and he gets the feel review on all the new cars. WHen a new 300m rolls of the car lot and has tranny problems somethin is wrong. The first couple of 1000 new corvettes head to be recalled because of a problems with the heads. What the hell. Why cant i get a great product that lasts for a good price. Isnt that what "made in america" used to mean.
People need sneakers period. Mines cost 60 dollars, im not one of these nuts that spend 300 dollars a pair(i noe guys like this). The only shoe i paid for that more then 100 bucks(120 dollars) is my timberland boots. I had them since 8th grade(im 20 now) and i still wear them. I have been all over the east coast from blizzards to rain and in every type of situation u can be in. That pair of boots was more like an investment rather then foot wear.
A honda built in the states, give me a break. Camaros and firebirds werent even built here since there debute in 67, they were built in canada. I got no problem with canada, but its an "american muscle car".
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The SIMPSONS anime is not even made/drawn in America... It's made in Korea!:D
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The voices in The Simpsons are computer generated too...:noid
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Of course, this is all layed out in any basic economics class. Though, it might be much to expect most of you to understand basic economics, or even think through the problem.
"Good and bad, I define these terms
Quite clear, no doubt, somehow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now."
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According to the Bureau of Economic Analysis, GDP of the USA in 2004 was 21.3 Trillion.
Manufacturing accounted for 4.3 Trillon.
Agriculture, 319 Billion, Mining 306 Billion, Construction 1,050 Billion, Information (software, Movies, Music Recording) 1,107 Billion, Finance and Insurance, 1,542 Billon.
So Manufacturing is equal to about 20% of the GDP and roughly equal to Agriculture, Mining, Construction, Information and Finance combined.
Yes, we do still make stuff.
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Originally posted by nirvana
The voices in The Simpsons are computer generated too...:noid
for reals man the simpsons drawing is sub-contracted to Korea.
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You must have transposed or misread the number, Holden. It's $12 trillion.
Still, nothing to sneeze at. ;)
Cadillac doesn't make cars in Japan, bkbandit. You may want to consider doing a lot more reading before you write or say things. And, GM can build a factory in Japan if they want. The problem is that the market in Japan for Cadillacs is infinitesimal. It's all about the market, the market, the market...
Come to think of it, weren't you the guy who said he couldn't get a job? I wonder why that is.
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Oh I believe you tikky, most of it is. South park is all done in the U.S. of A though, a day before it's set to be put on Comedy Central. Trey or Matt actually made the comment that while The Simpsons was shipped out months in advance oversees for animation, they (Matt and Trey) could do it in a day because it was all in house.
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Originally posted by Rolex
;)
Cadillac doesn't make cars in Japan, bkbandit. You may want to consider doing a lot more reading before you write or say things. And, GM can build a factory in Japan if they want. The problem is that the market in Japan for Cadillacs is infinitesimal. It's all about the market, the market, the market...
Come to think of it, weren't you the guy who said he couldn't get a job? I wonder why that is.
hmmm i've heard that Japan is a closed market for gaijin products.
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BK, part of the problem with the current US auto industry are the unions. If you search the board you can find a couple posts about it.
The main problem is that the Automakers are paying the unions BILLIONS of dollars to do nothing. And I mean that quite literally. I was reading an article a month or two back about a program the automakers and the unions had devised to keep useless people still on the payroll. The gist was that some people's jobs had been replaced, or phased out, or just not there anymore. The problem is that these people are still paid the same wages to literally sit in a room all day, and do nothing until the day they retire with full benefits.
If the automakers got rid of the unions and the incredibly wierd programs, I think they could easily trounce the import cars in america. Currently most imports are of higher quality and are being sold for less. If the programs were lost, it would lower the costs of cars astronomically. You could then keep the current cars at really cheap prices. Or you could pump out slightly higher quality cars at lower prices then the imports.
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I think the importance of unions is overstated. IIRC, the U.S. auto industry contributes just 4% to the GDP and union employees number less than 15% of the total workforce.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
Camaros and firebirds werent even built here since there debute in 67, they were built in canada. I got no problem with canada, but its an "american muscle car".
I beg to differ on that statement and provide the following data;
Gen. I: Norwood, Ohio 1967 - 1969
Van Nuys (Los Angeles) California 1967 - 1970
Gen. II: Norwood, Ohio 1970 - 1981 (except during a strike)
Van Nuys (Los Angeles) California 1970 - 1971, 1976 - 1981.
Gen. III: Van Nuys (Los Angeles), California 1981 - 1992
Gen. IV: Sainte-Thérèse, Quebec 1993 - 2002
Gen. V: Oshawa, Ontario, and Wilmington, Del. are the 2 locations that have been discussed.
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Originally posted by Rolex
Cadillac doesn't make cars in Japan, bkbandit. You may want to consider doing a lot more reading before you write or say things.
Yeah. GM dont make Caddys in Mexico.
They make em in Canaduh. :)
Cept for the big ugly SUV lookin thing. That one IS made in Mexico. And likely hosted at least one family as it rode across the border in its railroad car. Warms yer heart dont it?
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The guy that told me he read about gm buildin cars in japan im just goin to ignore from now on. This is the same guy that says the new zo6 sucks. The unions are meant to protect the workers but now its just makeing life more diffcult. NOw instead of workin people come up with excuses and go on strike. theres a guy like this at my friends job, the boss cant fire him cause of the union. The freakin job is a cake job and he messes around all day, then he goes to the union and says that the boss is racist. If they would fire his bellybutton my friend would get me in there. The job market here is horrible in nyc. I hav family in rhode island and told them how things r here and they couldnt believe it. My cousin told me they dont hav enough people so i might hav to go down there at least for alittle while. It just sucks that theres nothin but roads and trees out there, in the soondocks anybody can work but here in nyc they want 10 years experience for a dam part time inventory job. Im startin to think this whole city is crazy. Milk is more expensive then our gas at almost 4 dollars a gallon.
I read at hot rod mag that camaros have been built in canada since the 60s and it was closed in 2002, its the same page with the previous camaro concept pics. Regardless where it is built I bet if the unions werent being retarded gm would still want alot of money for a camaro. Just like nike charges over a 100 dollars for jordans. It might cost them at the most 7 bucks to make and send one pair to the states. Thats why theres sweat shops here in nyc that make "fake" jordans. With the cars being mostly made by machines i cant see a v8(330 horse) camaro costing 30 grand, thats way they ended up killin the gto 2 months ago.
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bk, they even made Camaro's in the Philippines. The US spec Camaro's were all made in the US up until the Gen IV's were introduced in 1993 at which point ALL F-bodies were made in Quebec, Canada.
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Originally posted by 1K3
hmmm i've heard that Japan is a closed market for gaijin products.
Nope, not at all. It's a completely free market.
American cars have never done well in Japan. It's not surprising, though.
Imagine you went to a Toyota, Honda, Nissan or Mitsubishi dealer in America and all the cars had the steering wheel on the right, all the controls, gauges and knobs were written in Japanese, the radio didn't cover the same frequency range, and there were just a handful of dealerships with limited service.
You probably wouldn't buy one. :)
But that has been the historical 'strategy' for US carmakers. Buy it our way, or don't buy it at all. Astounding stupidity, isn't it?
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Of course, this is all layed out in any basic economics class. Though, it might be much to expect most of you to understand basic economics, or even think through the problem.
You know the problem with economics? You have to make the most absurd initial assumptions for the rest of it to work. Microeconomics anyway, Macro seems to be on a little more solid footing imo.
But come on.. perfect competition? Perfect knowledge? What follows from the initial assumptions usually makes OK sense, but the initial assumptions are so flawed that it makes me wonder how valid the conclusions are.
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The new hemi engines are built and crated in Mexico.
That's a little known fact...
that I just made up
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Originally posted by Sandman
Might as well thank the Wal-Mart mentality.
Heh, my grandpa used to say the same thing except "Japanese car mentality". :)
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
My Honda was (96%) made in Marysville, Ohio.
And most of the parts and tires came from japan!!
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US engines suck! just to get more power the US engine makers need like a friggin 12.0 liter engine while the Japanese counterpart just need 1.0 liter to make the same power as tha 12 liter :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Kaw1000
And most of the parts and tires came from japan!!
BS. My '99 Accord is 75% domestic content. The newer ones are over 95%.
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Originally posted by tikky
US engines suck! just to get more power the US engine makers need like a friggin 12.0 liter engine while the Japanese counterpart just need 1.0 liter to make the same power as tha 12 liter :rolleyes:
Yeah, but our engines can tow a 26 ft boat that weighs 8,000 lbs., your engines can tow a dingy. :D
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In the episode, Homer teaches the Hindis he works with about flex hours and health benefits, so as to drive the cost of those workers up.
In fact, outsourcers will tell you India is already getting too pricey. There are malls in Kashmir that have Starbucks and Talbott's in them. If you were put into one of those malls and all the patrons and workers were removed, you might think you were in a stateside mall.
Jobs have moved on to China and Phillipines, where workers are poorer and have fewer chances to reap the benefits of industrialization.
But don't worry, Google will make money indexing the world and bring that currency stateside. Except for the Falun Gong websites, of course.
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Originally posted by Rolex
Nope, not at all. It's a completely free market.
American cars have never done well in Japan. It's not surprising, though.
Imagine you went to a Toyota, Honda, Nissan or Mitsubishi dealer in America and all the cars had the steering wheel on the right, all the controls, gauges and knobs were written in Japanese, the radio didn't cover the same frequency range, and there were just a handful of dealerships with limited service.
You probably wouldn't buy one. :)
But that has been the historical 'strategy' for US carmakers. Buy it our way, or don't buy it at all. Astounding stupidity, isn't it?
OTOH, Harley Davidson uses the same strategy and does remarkably well in Japan. :)
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I love the bit about it's a Walmart mentality. I seem to recall the same type of claims in the 60's and 70's that people were buying cheap foriegn made "crap" that had a made in Japan label long before there was a wallyworld. So yep I can see how it's all walmarts fault.....:huh :rolleyes:
Funny how that cheap "Jap crap" got to be such a large market share and how it was better built and lasted longer than the stuff made in the Good 'ol USA huh. This isn't just cars and stuff, where did the transistor radios come from years ago? They just took what the USA developed and marketed it far better in a far better price. Kinda like a free market thing you know, the basis of capitalism. I loved it when American manufacturers went TO Japan to see how they did it while providing a decent wage and job security to their employees to try and make it happen stateside.
I've said it to others and I'll say it again. I'll spend MY money where I damn well please to make MY life more enjoyable. If an American made product does the job and is cheaper I'll buy it. If it's a foriegn amde product that does the job and is cheaper I buy it instead. I made the money for MY uses not to be dictated by someone else who thinks they know enough to tell me how to live my life.
Until the American made product is competitive, don't expect the market to come buy the stuff. Freedom of choice is also an ideal of capitalism.
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Originally posted by Maverick
I love the bit about it's a Walmart mentality. I seem to recall the same type of claims in the 60's and 70's that people were buying cheap foriegn made "crap" that had a made in Japan label long before there was a wallyworld. So yep I can see how it's all walmarts fault.....:huh :rolleyes:
Funny how that cheap "Jap crap" got to be such a large market share and how it was better built and lasted longer than the stuff made in the Good 'ol USA huh. This isn't just cars and stuff, where did the transistor radios come from years ago? They just took what the USA developed and marketed it far better in a far better price. Kinda like a free market thing you know, the basis of capitalism. I loved it when American manufacturers went TO Japan to see how they did it while providing a decent wage and job security to their employees to try and make it happen stateside.
I've said it to others and I'll say it again. I'll spend MY money where I damn well please to make MY life more enjoyable. If an American made product does the job and is cheaper I'll buy it. If it's a foriegn amde product that does the job and is cheaper I buy it instead. I made the money for MY uses not to be dictated by someone else who thinks they know enough to tell me how to live my life.
Until the American made product is competitive, don't expect the market to come buy the stuff. Freedom of choice is also an ideal of capitalism.
Mav, yah missed a little detail. The detail being that the japanese would price their competing part or product at a price well below the American part.. and gladly sell at a LOSS to drive the American company under... and then, when the playing field was clear, re-adjust the price to make a profit... in all cases at a price higher than the price the american company sold the part for. How? The government of Japan subsidized the companys at war with american companies... and they slapped our goods with insane tarriffs to boot.
"Business is War".
The Chinese are good learners.. and they are engaged in exactly the same practice now... and their prime target is Japan and South Korea. We're already outta the game.
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So Hang, are you saying they learned it from Walmart????
Seems that many of those companies in competition to the Japanese are still here. GM, Chysler, Ford, Harley, to name a few of the main product lines. I'm not sure about the selling at a loss bit given the market share of Japanese products in the US vs Japan domestic consumption. The loss would have been far to heavy to handle on that much of the production run. You have a link for the info you posted?
The demand for tarrif protection from domestic producers was one way to make the US product price competitive. If the Japanese were selling at an actual loss then the tarrif would have killed the market for them. Of course their response to tarrifs was to build plants here in the States and STILL produce better quality at lower prices than the "standard domestic" sleds.
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Originally posted by Maverick
So Hang, are you saying they learned it from Walmart????
Seems that many of those companies in competition to the Japanese are still here. GM, Chysler, Ford, Harley, to name a few of the main product lines. I'm not sure about the selling at a loss bit given the market share of Japanese products in the US vs Japan domestic consumption. The loss would have been far to heavy to handle on that much of the production run. You have a link for the info you posted?
The demand for tarrif protection from domestic producers was one way to make the US product price competitive. If the Japanese were selling at an actual loss then the tarrif would have killed the market for them. Of course their response to tarrifs was to build plants here in the States and STILL produce better quality at lower prices than the "standard domestic" sleds.
It's not just cars Mav.. electronics. And I have first hand experience with how they did it just in my hobby.. they ate Phil Kraft and now Japan Radio and Futaba own the hobby electronics field. All american Electronics MFG's were literally driven from the playing field by Japan using undercut pricing... how many TV's are made here now? Cameras? Stereo's?
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F***in' A Hang, f***in' A!
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American cars are too big for the smaller roads in Asia, so they don't sell as well. That's what i've been told anyway.
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- Harleys don't have a left/right drive, SoA2. :)
The Japanese don't sell below cost any more than any company, anywhere, sells below cost, Hang. That's a myth about Japanese companies, just as government subsidizing is a myth.
The government does have a policy of constantly reviewing tax and investment rules to provide Japanese companies with incentives to make a profit and employ people. I see nothing wrong with that. ;)
Japanese executive compensation, corporate investment paper and the stock market made a huge difference in competitve pricing. The stock market is not the same (has a different purpose) than the US, stockholder greed for quarterly profits takes a back seat to long-term reinvestment of profits into research and executives of public corporations don't make 300 times the salary of production workers.
Japanese companies do a lot of cross licensing of patents without the need for royalties. They also have lower legal costs since the tort system and commercial code is not written by lawyers to benefit lawyers. It's there to benefit the producers of jobs and livelihoods.
Capital and lending rates are low.
Japanese factories are remarkably cost efficient and global purchasing of raw materials usually has better terms for larger purchases since they pay faster than US companies and many Japanese manufacturers have more global reach and market than many western companies. Toyota will open 1,000 more dealerships in China in the next few years, GM will open how many?
Tariffs are tariffs and everyone does it. US tariffs are some of the most stringent in the world.
Anyway, I think you're hanging onto some myths there, Hangtime.
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Originally posted by Rolex
The Japanese don't sell below cost any more than any company, anywhere, sells below cost, Hang. That's a myth about Japanese companies, just as government subsidizing is a myth.
Anyway, I think you're hanging onto some myths there, Hangtime.
I beg to differ. I can appreciate your perspective.. but it does not match the facts.
As a kid, I worked a summer for a guy named Phil Kraft. Anybody that's been involved in model building knows who the guy was... and his radio systems dominated the hobby of my youth. Futaba introduced a similar radio.. for less. In Phils words.. "i can't buy the parts for what they are selling this for" and in fact, the very same radio, selling in japan cost 40% MORE than Phils radio. Yes, they introduced them here and sold them at a loss... until Phil folded, Ace folded and Orbit folded.
No American players left.
Price went up. Immediately.
Call it what yah want Rolex.. the same pattern has been repeated here by japanese companys for 50 years.. isolate the competition, undercut his prices; even sell at a loss for YEARS if necessary.. when the competition folds, you own the market and can charge what you want.
I'm well aware that yer loyalties lie not in this country.. and that you would naturally embrace the policies of a national business enviornment that makes little distiction between business and government.. but please; don't try to white wash it. It is what it is.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
I'm well aware that yer loyalties lie not in this country.. and that you would naturally embrace the policies of a national business enviornment that makes little distiction between business and government.. but please; don't try to white wash it. It is what it is.
:noid
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NOw that i think about it, nintendo is comin out with there new system and are goin to sell it somethin like 250 bucks. The xbox when it first came out was like 4 5 hunder bucks. Nintendo has to be takin a lost.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
NOw that i think about it, nintendo is comin out with there new system and are goin to sell it somethin like 250 bucks. The xbox when it first came out was like 4 5 hunder bucks. Nintendo has to be takin a lost.
http://wii.nintendo.com/philosophy.html
NINTENDO's Wii (that's right... Nintendo Wii !) console specs will not be as powerful as Xbox-360 and Playstation 3. Nintendo instead is relying on their revolutionary control interface to regain their lost market share to SONY/MICROSOFT and get more old people to play video games. Nintendo will not try to compete against other console solely on raw CPU power
(http://wii.nintendo.com/images/controller_features2.png)
(http://wii.nintendo.com/images/controller_feature_wht.png)
(http://wii.nintendo.com/images/wii_hardware_wht.png)
BTW the new Playstation 3 will be priced at $600:eek:
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
BK, part of the problem with the current US auto industry are the unions.
The main problem is that the Automakers are paying the unions BILLIONS of dollars to do nothing. And I mean that quite literally.
I was reading an article a month or two back about a program the automakers and the unions had devised to keep useless people still on the payroll. The gist was that some people's jobs had been replaced, or phased out, or just not there anymore. The problem is that these people are still paid the same wages to literally sit in a room all day, and do nothing until the day they retire with full benefits.
Bollocks..Automakers don't give a red penny to unions(they get it from dues paying members)
"..useless people.."..If someone's job gets eliminated they get to sit around in a room all day until they retire? Bollocks...Said "Useless Person"gets to bid on job postings based on seniority..
Useless people sitting around in rooms sounds like management.
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tikky... I don't know or care what a liter is but there are production American cars that put out 550 hp... what 1 liter jap car can you go to the local dealer and buy that has that kind of HP?
The new standards for HP ratings came out and as usual... the japs all had to downrate their hp ratings and the Americans mostly had to rate theirs up.
Even rich... I wouldn't want to be a jap.
lazs
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yea american cars r more powerful but they make u pay for it. The mustang and the camaro aimed at ur high school and college student. NOt anymore. A guy told me that in the about 86 he worked and saved his money through his last 2 years of high school and was able to grab an 81 in fantastic shape with modds on it for a great price. I have seen some for sale adds in the papaer for 02s and they want like 26 grand:O . A v8 (300 something horse power) camaro or mustang shouldnt cost over 20 grand. How much could it cost for a manchine to put together a mustang. The vette has went from americans favorite sports car to a wanna be super car at 80 grand. There doin retro cars to get back to the roots and there forgeting one thing, the price. In the 80s a new camaro was about 12 14 grand, in the early 90s it was about 24 grand and the last ones that came out were in the low 30s. Mustangs and camaros arent race cars, there just cars with enough power to have fun with.
That ps3 is goin to be 600? I bet with the power there packin into these manchines they will last for another 7 years.
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If you want to you can buy a 86-93 Mustang for maybe 5 grand and another 5 grand will give you 400+ hp and a nice stereo to go with your air conditioning..
But you are correct.. the companies are blowing it... they need to sell a strippo sedan along the idea of the original GTO and Roadrunner and SS Chevelle... something that can be built from the order form but starts out cheap... No power windows or cup holders or leather or GPS or even ac and all that... Big V8... tough tranny and rear end... heavy duty suspension and strippo interior. No radio or power anything... Something a kid can make payments on.
lazs
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I don't know what high school you all went to but when I was going to high school there was no freaking way I could afford a new car. This was at the peak of the pony car time period as well. The mustang, camaro, charger / challenger were all way beyond a high school kids finances and I worked every summer all summer long to pay for gas, insurance and other expenses for the remainder of the year. Stripped or not a new car was beyond the average high school kids means.
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^^ Yup.
Whatever happened to working, establishing yourself and THEN buying a car on payments?
I was 28 before I bought a new car.. took 3 years to pay it off. Have paid cash for every vehicle since.. and never again bought 'new'.
This nonsense of living well beyond your means is like a sickness.. high school kids with car payments?
Crazy.
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LAZS YES, give me a joe performance car. A 350 small block bullet proof tranny with a hardcore rear. A single disc cd player with 2 speakers in the doors cant cost much to mass produce. My biggest opinion in that would be leather seats. No power seats, windows or locks.These cars are about smokeing tires not checkin ur make up in the mirror. A simple car like this is what u need. How much could the big three want for a car like this.
I just wish our country could produce somethin else to be proud of other then the f22 and the abrams tank. Yea the ford gt is a great car but i cant afford that. If u want anythin good here u hav to either pay for it in blood or by somethin from over seas.
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I wasn't talking about high school kids... I was talking about "kids" with their first car that they buy on payment plans.
We all had hopped up old cars in High school and motorcycles... it was pretty neat when one of the guys would get to take out big brothers SS 396 Chevelle or goat or 440/383 roadrunner....
When we got out of high school there were specialty lots that sold thrashed muscle cars.. "Bill Parkers 4 speeds" was where I bought a low millage SS/RS 350 4 speed 67 camaro with a burned out clutch (half a days work) for the princely sum of $1400 dollars.... I believe it worked out to about $60 a month payment with my chevy II tradin...
There were lots with nothing but vettes.... Nothing but hot rods and nothing but 4 speeds....
Just like now..... life was good.
lazs