Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: timid on June 11, 2006, 08:14:46 PM
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Are some of the 30mm rounds in the K4 sometimes duds? I've been noticing hits but no damage on other fighters. If necessary I can post a pic or mov with one of the rounds hitting the wing root of a N1k and doing no damage. If there are some duds, please disregard :)
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Not that I'm aware of. There's only been myself and mega. Oh I almost forgot, there was a milkdud I saw, and a cooldud lol.
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Originally posted by timid
Are some of the 30mm rounds in the K4 sometimes duds? I've been noticing hits but no damage on other fighters. If necessary I can post a pic or mov with one of the rounds hitting the wing root of a N1k and doing no damage. If there are some duds, please disregard :)
Make sure you arent hitting them with BB's instead of taters
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Originally posted by Meatwad
Make sure you arent hitting them with BB's instead of taters
I just fire secondary, I don't use the MG's at all.
EDIT: also, the ping shows up as a rather large explosion on the wingroot of the one I actually caught while recording.
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"Rubber bullet syndrome" is occasionally brought up and complained about. I don't pretend to know why it occurs. But logging off and logging back in seems to solve the problem from what I have heard.
Krusty complained about 30mms not doing what they were supposed to a while back. I PMed him in the MA a half hour later and we ran a few tests trying to reproduce it. We couldn't -- 30mm hits slaughtered anything they touched. Just seems to be an on again-off again occurrance for some people.
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Thanks for the helpful replies. Guess it's just some semi-rare fluke thing I will have to deal with. :)
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It happens with all caliber weapons. I've put a 4 or 5 second burst of .50 into a Lanc from dead 6 and not done any real damage, then on a later flight killed one with about 50 rounds in the same attack.
I've also received it- a long burst that does no real damage, and on another flight lose a wing or tail (or my favorite, the 1 ping PK) to a snapshot.
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Against bombers 60% are pure duds. I have many films to prove this.
Against fighters they generally work 95% of the time. The odd time you might not see damage but I bet the pilot got a wound and the rest was spread out across the fuselage, tail, right wing and left wing (thus doing full damage but not to any one part).
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I unloaded about 200 rds of .50cal into a Hurri once in convergence range and didn't even scratch his paint. :p
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I have, on a several occasions, hit a fighter with a 30mm that didn't instantly destroy the con or knock something crucial off. Although a huge percentage of shots on wings, wingroot, or the canopy produced good results, hits on the rest of the fuselage didn't always guarantee a kill.
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Think the only plane I've ever hit with a 30mm and not killed is an La-7. Sometimes you'll hit them with a 30mm and they'll just get an oil leak, but the vast majority of the time any plane you hit is either dead or engineless.
You may want to make sure that Vsync is enabled.
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I thought you had to DISABLE vsync, because if it's enabled, your frames are waiting for the other direction before they synch up, and you get false hits because they wait?
I leave mine to "application preference" because I forget which you need to set it to, but I THINK you need to set it to "off".
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Originally posted by Krusty
I leave mine to "application preference" because I forget which you need to set it to, but I THINK you need to set it to "off".
VSync should be left or turned ON.
This has always been the case since I started flying back when AW4W was new.
ALWAYS SET VSYNC TO ON!
Unless you want to check your max frame rate, best done when not trying to kill others in AH.
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Good Lord, I hope there arent more Dud's, Mega and Supa are two more than we need as it is.
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Every report of rubber bullets or duds that was filmed has been proven false. If you see the flash, damage is accumlated.
HiTech
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hitech: But what if you see 5x 30mm flashes on the tail-section of a lancaster fuselage, and the tail doesn't fall off? That should be enough to blow any plane in half!
flatbar: Thanks, I could never remember. I turned it from "application specified" to "forced on". Much appreciated. But I never really have "rubber bullets" -- only with the 30mms, no other gun.
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So, 30mm flash is 100% hit.....
Time to start filming again, i have counted 11x30mm hits to Lanc, from nose to tail and no kill or visual damage
:eek:
Or maybe it is ok to get 5-10 30 mm hits agasint lanc/b17 and it simply is not enought. B24`s at least get in flames about easy
;)
30mm hit to fighter seems to work about nice, not 100% kill, but 85% is ok.
puujiikoo
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You mean something like this film? (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/films/wtf.zip) 37mm vs spit16 tail
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Link dosent work
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maybe the rounds were produced in a chek or pole slave labor factory ..
I have read stories about rounds that failed to go off and when examined they contained a note explaining "that is all we can do now"
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Originally posted by hitech
Every report of rubber bullets or duds that was filmed has been proven false. If you see the flash, damage is accumlated.
HiTech
Hitech, im afraid i have to disagree on that.
Even though its hard, if not impossible to get it on film (hit sprites in film doesnt neccessarily mean hit sprites could be seen in game and vice versa - to me it seems as if film viewer recalculates the displayed "data").
I had in the past occurences of clear hits (including sprites) and no damage or delayed damage (up to 5 secs), but also did damage to planes without having visual confirm (ie no sprites, i have tracers off, so i cant "confirm" a hit otherwise).
This always was related to connection issues, ie lagging text buffer, laggy connection over all. It also happened during the time where the MA seemed to be "twilight zone" due to internet issues.
My explanation on "rubber bullets" is simply that the bullet/damage packet gets lost and/or is heavily delayed. It would be more standing out on 30mm, since a single missing 30 mil is a lot more noticable then a missing 303 (out of 500).
Check your connect next time you have it happen. Relogging also helps sometimes.
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Damage without a hit sprite would be possible in the film viewer because the film viewer is showing a recording of every second or third frame - it doesn't record every frame because if it did the films would be gigantic.
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one of the many, many aceshigh phenomina that is easily ignored by factoring virtual luck into your mindset.
in real life, im willing to bet my car that bombers and even fighters would sometimes survive multiple 30mm hits, or 'grazes' and fly home to tell the tale.
if you could kill something with exactly 1 30mm round at any angle and hit point then it would also be worth having a 'health bar' for your plane damage just like duke nukem.
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Hit packets can be delayed but never lost.
Once again read what I said, every hit sprite of a 30mm causes damage just like any other bullet.
How much damage depends on range/speed and where hit on the plane.
For a bullet not to do damage to a plane after a hit sprite 1 of 2 things would have to happen.
1. The shooter gets discoed.
2. The shootie gets discoed.
Other than that there could only be a delay in the damage do to droped packets, but those droped packets will arive, and nothing else on that channel including text messages and lots of other stuff can arive can arive until the hit message does.
Is basic TCP networking things must arive at the procedure in the order sent and can not be lost with out the entire connection being lost.
HiTech
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Originally posted by Urchin
Think the only plane I've ever hit with a 30mm and not killed is an La-7. Sometimes you'll hit them with a 30mm and they'll just get an oil leak, but the vast majority of the time any plane you hit is either dead or engineless.
I was in an Il-2 the other day and took a direct frontal hit from an osty. My engine was cooked, I lost my right gear, but I was pointed at the airfield and landed :)
Also happened to me in a P47--direct hit from front on engine, engine dead, no other damage.
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Originally posted by stickpig
Link dosent work
Must have been a server burp, link works fine. 37mm hit on spit16 just in front of stabs, and it flies on its merry way with all its parts.
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The damage is just not enough to visually register (ie piece flys off etc) but it is registered.
I've hit lancs with cannons from osti and had no visual damage right away and then have a friendly come along and fire a few .50 cals at it and I got the kill on them.
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(http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/wtf.JPG)
the yak's 37mm round infact hits then engine block a glancing blow, and it is the 2ndary machine gun rounds hitting the tail section.
the only reason the spit keeps flying is because we dont have prop damage modeled from debris. he was lucky not to be wounded.
most often, the film viewer and game dont show things slow enough for us.
i had to slow to 1% speed to capture this, and the time between shots is less than 0.1 seconds of real time
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How much damage depends on range/speed and where hit on the plane.
My post is probably a bit o/t but here goes...
Wouldn't Mk 108 3cm Minengeschoss damage be dependent on its high explosive content and not on 'speed or range' to cause damage? I assume you mean the 'speed of the round' and 'range of the aircraft'..?
Moving on from that assumption M-Geschoss rounds (HA-41) typically consisted of 75% Hexogen, 20% Aluminium-Pyroschliff and 5% Montanwachs.
Hexogen = RDX
Aluminium-Pyroschliff = Aluminum powder
Montanwachs - Wax
Damage would be the result of where the round entered the aircraft and the effect of the blast wave velocity in the confined space. 'Duds' are certainly reasonably in 'realism terms' as fusing could some times be problematic (especially early on).
If AH damage is truly based on 'range and speed' then it is easy to see why a round like the MGFF/M in AH are the weakest (even when comparing them to the Japanese Type 99 MK 1) in the game. If AH belting is a combination of all round types then the effect of the 2cm M'geschoss rounds are diluted and since they have a low muzzle and impact velocity they are all but worthless.
If true then I imagine the same thing effects all other cannon rounds (especially the MG151/2cm). However, with the hispano since it 'hits harder' and has 'greater range' its damage value has a clear (and observed) advantage in AH.
FYI,
Here is a decent site on Luftwaffe Ammunition (http://www.histavia21.net/amaviapag/Lw-Ammos.htm) (see 20mm Drivers and 30mm Drivers).
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Originally posted by Murdr
Must have been a server burp, link works fine. 37mm hit on spit16 just in front of stabs, and it flies on its merry way with all its parts.
I have done that three times with Osti. I know i checked my variance after the last two and it was all over the place. That is spread out over a lot of hours though. Don't think I got discoed every time though as the varience check was done after the hit.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
the yak's 37mm round infact hits then engine block a glancing blow, and it is the 2ndary machine gun rounds hitting the tail section.
There was no machine gun fire. I just tapped the cannon button. The only muzzle flash is clearly from the hub gun.
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then how comes the two MG hit sprites on the canopy and near the tail?
are they secondary hitsprites showing the debris of the 30mm?
the 30mm clearly explodes in a glancing blow off the nose cone.
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All you have to do is look at the films of chewed up aircraft flying through the air & you'll have to agree, one 30mm may or may not bring down an aircraft, especially buffs.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
then how comes the two MG hit sprites on the canopy and near the tail?
are they secondary hitsprites showing the debris of the 30mm?
the 30mm clearly explodes in a glancing blow off the nose cone.
Excelent question. Wondering that myself after seeing your screen shot. Live, I though I had hit it in the nose, but until your freeze frame image, I could only see the tail sprite on the film. Very curious now on the dynamics of that HE round.
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I have had a F4U pull up right in front of me in a P-47 about a year ago. I pulled the trigger on all 8 of the .50's at alomst perfect convergence, I hit him with concentrated .50 fire in the canopy for about two seconds & raked the entire fuselage from prop to tail back & forth twice & the guy flew off, not trailing smoke or fuel or the tell-tale flying straight for a few seconds to indicate a pilot wound.
That incident caused me to write a post about the under-modeling of the .50 cal. Because I know 100 rounds of .50 cal into a cockpit would turn the pilot into a grease spot. That was before I knew about "rubber bullets" & packets arriving slow etc. It's like the collision model everyone agrees is not 100% perfect, but is the best that can be done with current technology; those bullets are colliding with the plane, so the differences in the F.E.'s & lag & all that play a part in what you see vs. what the other guy sees vs. what really happened right?
I still say there are some weird & hard to explain things that happen, but it's a game & those aren't real weapons you are firing; basically - nothings perfect & there will be problems with anything & everything at one time or another.