Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on June 12, 2006, 10:38:52 AM
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=390171&in_page_id=1770&in_a_source
Good idea? Bad idea?
Doctors will this week declare war on America's soft drinks industry by calling for a 'fat tax' to combat the nation's obesity epidemic.
Delegates at the powerful American Medical Association's annual conference will demand a levy on the sweeteners put in sugary drinks to pay for a massive public health education campaign.
They will also call for the amount of salt added to burgers and processed foods to be halved.
The moves come as U.S. doctors - like their British counterparts - are becoming increasingly alarmed at the growing number of deaths linked to obesity.
The resolution will put doctors on a collision course with Coca-Cola and Pepsi, plus the likes of McDonald's and Burger King.
Sales of soft drinks in U.S. schools are in decline ahead of the introduction of guidelines allowing only healthier low-calorie drinks, plus milk and certain fruit juices, over the next two years.
But the medical association wants to go further. Delegates at its Chicago conference are gunning in particular for high fructose corn syrup, the sweetener which is added to everything from ketchup to cola.
One American politician labelled it the 'crack of sweeteners' because it is so widespread.
Some U.S. cities and states already levy taxes on soft drinks or junk foods that raise £500million a year, said Michael Jacobsen, director of the Centre for Science and the Public Interest, an independent health watchdog. But earmarking tax revenue for programmes promoting better diet would be a first, he added.
American doctors are seeing the same alarming trends as those in Britain where obesity is considered to be a 'ticking timebomb of epidemic proportions'.
More than 30,000 Britons die each year because of obesity. In England, 47 per cent of men and 33 per cent of women are overweight, with around a fifth being obese. The problem costs the Health Service £500million in consultations, drugs and other therapies.
Life insurance companies are considering increased premiums for overweight clients because so many are dying prematurely from heart disease and cancer. Cancer Research UK has warned that obesity will soon cause more cancers than smoking.
Just as alarming is the rapid growth in childhood obesity. Among six-year-olds, one in ten is classed as obese, rising to one in five among 15-year-olds. The Government has warned that the current generation of schoolchildren could be the first to live shorter lives than their parents.
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More "nanny state" Bravo Sierra. Just what we need.
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I want a flag that says "Don't Tread on Me", but instead has a big gulp on it.
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Another step down the path to being a nebbish like the folks accross the pond. Bad idea. People have to be held responsible for their OWN actions not have the "State" be a fulltime surrogate mommy to them for life telling them to dress warmly and eat right at every meal. :rolleyes:
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Won't somebody please think of the children?!?!?!?!
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dont tax the good yummy food... tax the fat people buying the yummy food... call it area tax (they take up too much area) hee hee haa haa :lol
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They do the same thing with cigarettes and alcohol.
I don't hear any complaints.
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Originally posted by Sandman
They do the same thing with cigarettes and alcohol.
I don't hear any complaints.
Alcohol and cigarettes are not necessities, food is.
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McDonalds and Coca Cola aren't necessities.
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so they want to tax me so they can use the money to tell me why i'm fat?
why don't the doctors just e-mail me , it's cheaper.
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Originally posted by Sandman
McDonalds and Coca Cola aren't necessities.
So if we ban McD's and coca cola all will be good huh. What do you do if they just decide that you pay a progressive tax. You can buy 1000 calories of food per person per day, tax free. Anything more would be subject to higher and higher taxation. Say 10% for 1200 calories, 30 % for 1250 calories and so on. Would that make you happy Sandy?
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http://www.lp.org
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
http://www.lp.org
jeebus there was a time funked when you weren't just a political sounding board. now all it seems you post is "im a libertarian and in a union and it's great"
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Maverick
So if we ban McD's and coca cola all will be good huh. What do you do if they just decide that you pay a progressive tax. You can buy 1000 calories of food per person per day, tax free. Anything more would be subject to higher and higher taxation. Say 10% for 1200 calories, 30 % for 1250 calories and so on. Would that make you happy Sandy?
I simply pointed how things are, not how I wish them to be. Sin taxes are an established fact of life in many parts of this country. A tax on gluttony is just one more step along that same path.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
More "nanny state" Bravo Sierra. Just what we need.
Is "laissez-faire" a better solution ?
Maverick McDo and Coca Cola are at best nutriment, not food.
Crap, I misread.
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Originally posted by Maverick
People have to be held responsible for their OWN actions not have the "State" be a fulltime surrogate mommy
how true,
but it looks like it dont work,
why else the state planing such tax?
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A special tax on fatty or otherways unhealthy food isn't and shouldn't be the answer.
Proper labeling of food, including fast food, would be a better choice.
Having a caloric breakdown in type large enough for people to actualy read and printed on all fast food wrappers or containers would go a long way towards helping people make the right choice.
As it is now, trying to figure out that that Whopper with cheese has 850 calories, about 450 from fat, and the bun has about 50 grams of carbohydrates of which only 5 are fiber, isn't very easy.
Sure, they'll post a placard with those numbers but there's a disconnect when the info on that placard isn't on the food wrapper itself.
I'm all for personal choice but I also believe that the public needs to have this info available on the product they're buying to make that informed choice.
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...and proper education.
I think most people are skeptical of what the Dr's push because these are the same pointy heads that say coffee is bad one week, yet not the next.
I dont think taxing is the solution. And for what its worth, remove it from booze and cigarettes. Clearly making the more expensive aint ceased them behavior. But various organizations love the income from the tax revenue. And want more!
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Originally posted by Flatbar
A special tax on fatty or otherways unhealthy food isn't and shouldn't be trying to figure out that that Whopper with cheese has 850 calories
Whopper * 3 = done for the whole day with calories (if you are over 30 and sitting your main sport is), aprox of course ;) hehe
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Fast foods are bad (http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn9318&feedId=online-news_rss20). Mmmkay?
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Originally posted by Maverick
Alcohol and cigarettes are not necessities, food is.
[SIZE=8]HERESSY! BURN THE HERETIC![/SIZE]
Anyway, this is the result of the ideology that you can tax away your problems.
Having a caloric breakdown in type large enough for people to actualy read and printed on all fast food wrappers or containers would go a long way towards helping people make the right choice.
No, it wouldn't. The more information you tell someone does not matter to the consumer. Do you think that even 1/10 people look at the nutrition label on a bottle of coke?
I say we get rid of all this nanny BS. The fatties will kill themselves off soon enough and we won't have a health problem.
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But the rest of us need to quit financing their fatty medical care with our tax dollars.
Your lifestyle choice, don't make me pay for it.
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If they wanna make my skinny prettythang wear a motorcycle helmet, they ought make the FAR more numerous (and therefore more expensive) fat bastids pay for their unhealthy life styles, which often lead to heart disease and diabetes
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Personal responsibility of individuals and parents are being replaced by lawyers.
Awesome.
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I say we tax tobacco $5 per ounce, they're my lungs to ruin, not yours.
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Originally posted by Mustaine
Real freedom scares me.
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Originally posted by bj229r
If they wanna make my skinny prettythang wear a motorcycle helmet, they ought make the FAR more numerous (and therefore more expensive) fat bastids pay for their unhealthy life styles, which often lead to heart disease and diabetes
Oh kewl.. that makes sense. 'They screwed me.. now lets have 'em screw you'.
Nothin frosts my cupcakes faster than some guy explaining away the next assinine government regulatory boondoggel with a previous assinine regulatory boondoggel.
Now I'm gonna get fat on all these damn cupcakes that just got frosted..
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Now I'm gonna get fat on all these damn cupcakes that just got frosted..
Ahhh, quit your *****in' and just wash 'em down with a Coke. Or Pepsi. Or whatever is the soda of your choice. Because, after all, it's all about choice...
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I want to tax doctors for have nurses tend to my needs while if Im lucky I actually see a doctor at all.
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Fast food dont make you fat
Stuffing your face with it 3 times a day every day is what makes you fat.
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I would have thought market forces would have sorted this by now. Expected the medical insurance companies would have a BMI accelerator on the premium - sort of like no claims bonus for your car but in reverse. Slightly fat, that's 50% extra please - really quite fat, make that 100% - oh my god fat, get your own insurance and if you have a heart attack you lose your house.
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Originally posted by Sparks
I would have thought market forces would have sorted this by now. Expected the medical insurance companies would have a BMI accelerator.
They will sort it out when they can be sure that nobody sues them for discrimination. People aren't fat, they're just born bigger :rolleyes:
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i think we all know where hamburgers come from.
they come from ranchers, people who live out in the middle of nowwhere & carry guns.
probably the toughest guys in the country to regulate.
enjoy your $50 black market burger from a dairy cow that keeled over a month ago from mad cow & was then smuggled to you & occasionally refrigerated (maybe)...
...but i have another way
tax defecation
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I think you will find that one group of people are more "at risk" of getting fat. You all know who im talking about. Now... would a tax on crap food work on them or not? Would education and access to better work better?
We have taxes on snacks and junk food.. kinda. Healty "normal" food that people need have less tax and junk has normal tax. If it has worked or not is hard to say but there has been a slight increase in the weight of the younger generation. Thankfully it looks like the trend is turning towards more healty food among the young folks and fish and salads are now trendy has heck. The sales of bottled sugar (or cola as its sometimes called) is going down fast and bottled water has been trendy for years now and still growing strong.
If I had a say I would simply leave the taxes and stuff here as they are. because the trends are going the right way so are the fast food industy. McDonalds and Burger King now sell more salads and sammiches than they sell fries. Nothing wrong with properly cooked meat/burgers. Its the freedom fries that gets to you.
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Using taxation as a tool for social engineering = BAD.
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they are running out of ciggarette money and they are starting to jones...
You don't cut these people off their tax fix cold turkey.
lazs
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Justify it any way you want, but government regulation of personal diet would be a slippery slope.
Where would it stop?
Sunflower seeds? Can't have them...too much salt.
Mashed potatoes with sweet milk gravy. Strictly taboo.
Ribeye steaks? Too much fat...but you can have it if ya eat only four ounces of it.
Fried fish? You gotta be kiddin'.
Grilled or smoked meat of any kind. Well...okay...but only once a month.
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but... they allready do. booze is taxed... smokes are taxed... drugs are regulated as are vitamins.
We are allready on the slippery slope. The only way to get off it is to say.... "no more" not one more freedom taken away or one new tax. No matter how small or how many "lives it will save" or "money it will save"
We need mind our own business and quit trying to punish and penalize anyone who does something you don't want to do at the moment you vote.
We need to quit getting suckered into bigger and bigger and more intrusive government.
I was actually shocked in the last election here in kalifornia the other day when two huge tax increases for "worthy" causes were soundly defeated.
maybe people are waking up...
But then... I see guys thinking that socialist tax and spender kinky is running in Texas....
lazs
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we can eat whatever we want .. they just need to tax us if we DON'T exercise properly :)
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Originally posted by Sandman
They do the same thing with cigarettes and alcohol.
I don't hear any complaints.
Here's a complaint then. Since they decided to wrongfully pin the fault of people dying from smoking related illness on the tobacco companies the price of cigs has nearly doubled. Some of that is extra tax by overly intrusive state governments that see taxing as a way to discourage people from buying smokes. The other obviously is the costs of these settlements are passed on to us consumers. I've smoked for 15 years. I've always known the risks. Isn't it bad enough that the governments WRONGFULLY tell business owners they aren't allowed to let people smoke inside PRIVATE establishments?
So what now. They will have designated fast food eating areas, so none of the calories are transmitted through the air to "Healthy People" ? Lets make it too expensive to eat fast food and destroy an entire sector of the economy in the name of a "Healthy" population.
What I eat and even how I eat it is no business of the Government.
WE NEED TO TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK FOLKS!
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Smoking has been banned for 2 years now here in resturants and bars. The business took a dive for a couple of months but are now back to normal, and some are even doing better than before. Even the majority of the smokers thinks it was a good idea. Never has so many quit smoking here either.. tobacco sales are down.
Im not sure about the statistics over in Britain. They started.. or atleast Ireland was first with the ban i belive.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
What I eat and even how I eat it is no business of the Government.
I'll argue that if the government is paying for your health care, what you eat is indeed the "business of the government."
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Just because a Government attains it goals, and the sheep in the population turn and look the other way or just ride along, doesn't make it right.
I don't know about your rights over there, but we USED to have property rights in the USA. Before the Government started using our constitution as toilet paper.
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Originally posted by Sandman
I'll argue that if the government is paying for your health care, what you eat is indeed the "business of the government."
I'll agree. I was speaking as a general citizen. I am in the Military so Constitutional rights don't apply to me. So if they ordered me to stop I would have no choice. However that would be hard to do since the chow I'm served on the ship or at the galley is probrably less healthy than eating fast food.
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Originally posted by Sandman
I'll argue that if the government is paying for your health care, what you eat is indeed the "business of the government."
Which is a pretty damn good argument against socialized health care!
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Which is a pretty damn good argument against socialized health care!
...and welfare. ;)
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:aok
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Originally posted by Sandman
I'll argue that if the government is paying for your health care, what you eat is indeed the "business of the government."
They don't pay for MY health care. They pay for ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS health care.
sheesh.
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All this talk of taxes is taxing, I'm hungry now...Mickey D's here I come!
Mac
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I'm not fat, hell I can't keep weight on. Shoot on a good week I might hit 135lbs if it wasn't for fast food I might only weigh 120 or so...
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Originally posted by nuchpatrick
I'm not fat, hell I can't keep weight on. Shoot on a good week I might hit 135lbs if it wasn't for fast food I might only weigh 120 or so...
my guess is that you are not married and/or under 30
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IT is illegal to serve someone alcohol to a person who is obviously drunk.
Why not just make it illegal to serve fastfood to someone who is obvioulsy obese?
OR a better idea. No healthcare for the obese, Either private or state sponsored.
you let yourself blow up like the flipping hindenburg because of your gluttony. You deal with the consequences yourself
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how about we round them all up
& put them in camps
where they can concentrate on getting healthier
:noid :noid :noid
maybe they should eat more fruit(http://mono.whatevz.net/images/hitler4-01-01wy9WGA.gif) :furious :furious
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I think society has changed to the point where a healthy meal is not cooked as often. Today is the day of the working mom, she works full time, and then has to wash clothes, clean, etc. It is alot easier to pick something up on the way home than to have to cook after a long day. We work more and have less time to ourselves and our family, and make it up where we can, having someone else prepare your food saves time and energy. I do not think a tax will change it, just create another cash cow
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
IT
OR a better idea. No healthcare for the obese, Either private or state sponsored.
Or if you skydive, scubba, ski, motorcycle, skate, play baseball.......
shamus
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Step 1: Create panic
Step 2: Ask for tax money to decrease panic
Normal government behavior.
So... the government is going to give this surplus tax money to hospitals to subsidize the loss they take on giving care to fat people? Wait... there isn't a loss there. They are going to subsidize the insurance agencies that coughing up the funds because of fat people? Oh wait... they're earnings are setting records. Hmmmm... maybe we can tax to create a program that will tell people how bad being fat is because sometimes a doctor's words are just not enough and you need a spokesperson to tell you instead.
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See Rule #4, #5
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Smoking has been banned for 2 years now here in resturants and bars. The business took a dive for a couple of months but are now back to normal, and some are even doing better than before. Even the majority of the smokers thinks it was a good idea. Never has so many quit smoking here either.. tobacco sales are down.
Im not sure about the statistics over in Britain. They started.. or atleast Ireland was first with the ban i belive.
Nilsen, yes Ireland banned smoking in public places like pubs and restaurants, and the UK is set to follow suit in 2007. However, a great many restaurants in the UK - eg. the Caffe Uno chain and the Ask chain have pre-empted the smoking ban by implementing their own non-smoking policy. Smoking at these places is now only allowed in outdoor areas. Also, pubs are doing the same thing - expanding their non-smoking areas in accordance with customer demands.
I don't think a tax on unhealthy food is the answer - maybe more education is. Blair's government is to ban vending machines in schools that sell junk like crisps (potato chips) and fizzy drinks/soda pop.
But I have a story to tell. Last Sunday morning I met up with Mietla at LHR Airport so that we could have lunch before he caught his flight back to San Francisco. I thought his flight was earlier than it actually was, so I was waiting at the Zone G UAL check-in area for quite a while before Mietla arrived. I was able to watch all the other passengers arriving, and - you guessed it - I was able to tell which ones were American quite easily. In some cases the clothes gave it away, but there were other tell-tale indicators. (No, I won't say it - lol) What I did notice was that one mixed party with an average age of around 60 were struggling to push their carts the few yards from the main entrance into Zone G. They were panting and perspiring at the end of it. OK, it was warm in London until yesterday, but a short walk like that should not have had anyone of that age breaking a sweat. One lady had to wipe off all her makeup and start again. She was in a right 2 and 8. She was somewhat rotund, to say the least.
The thing is, if only people could be steered away from junk/crap, they might actually prefer the healthy alternatives. I would prefer a fresh grapefruit juice over one of those full sugar soda pop drinks any time.
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Originally posted by lazs2
See Rule #4, #5
lol.. you have a way with words
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(http://www.zaldiva.com/images/TSHIRTS/FAMILYGUY/familyguypeternofatchickstshirt_pic1.jpg)
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:t
If companies just put in a clause that terminates coverage of people that become obese, Darwin can take care of the rest.
edit: I also think employers should have mandatory aerobics in the morning like some Japanese companies.
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Ban forks. Forks are evil. Recently, fast food restraunts have been distributing Assault Sporks.. these are tools of the devil.
If there are fewer forks and sporks there will be fewer calories distributed to the obese.
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Yeah I think we really need more government and corporate control of our lifestyles. You guys are great. :aok
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Yeah I think we really need more government and corporate control of our lifestyles. You guys are great. :aok
Yup. Better Living Through Tyranny.
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Originally posted by Thom Yorke's Synthesizer
calm
fitter, healthier and more productive
a pig
in a cage
on antibiotics
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(http://log.krak.nl/wateenswas/thx1138.jpg)