Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: lagger86 on June 12, 2006, 08:04:01 PM
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I have tried and tried, but I always wreck or overshoot the runway and get personal with a tree., I am the master or crashin a perfectly good airplane....The only one I've managed to get on the ground was a B17....I'm a rookie and I suck, but I've finally got a couple kills and I would like to rtb safely. Can someone just give me a landing checklist of some sort...I keep trying but I'm missing something.
thanks all
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1) start from a few miles out at 1000 ft
2) go level
3)cut power
4) when plane slows to 160 hit q key to dump flaps. If you are flying a Mustang or a few other planes you can put flaps out as high as 300 without issue. Just hit the q key until they drop. Hit it until they are fully deployed.
5) begin a decent to 500 ft
6) adjust throttle to maintain an approach speed of 120 mph
7) a 1/4 mile out hit g key to extend the gear
8) use your gunsight and aim for the near end of the runway
9) close throttle more to come over the numbers (end of runway) at 90-100 mph
10) Now that you have cleared the runway ease of throttle off to 80 mph
11) Use the far end of the runway for alignment and let her ease onto the ground.
12) just as you touch down ease the joystick back and chop throttle all the way off.
13) pull stick all the way back to lock the tail wheel steering
14) press and hold the space bar for ground braking
Hope this works as a checklist
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yes that helps a bunch....I may actually make it home in one peice, unless of course I get shot out of the sky(which happens far too often).
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How I land (slightly gamey, in that it's risky)
-line up with runway, chop throttle
-mash the rudder and do hard turns until I've bled enough speed to drop gear
-drop gear, start banging the "flap down" button until I've dropped a notch or two, line up on runway again
-when I start to stall, give it some power to stay aloft.
-when I'm over the runway, make sure throttle is at 0 and level off (flare if speed is low enough)
-pull up flaps one notch at a time to settle onto the runway.
It's gamey in that it's unsafe and risky, since I'm flying on the edge of a stall pretty much the whole time. But it's easy to throttle up if you're coming in short, and raising the flaps plops you on the runway as soon as you're over it.
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Yes! i love rudder and turning to bleed E i can land a 350mph plane with about 1/4 of space to the runway. Usually encorporate a lot of roll. And then land with gear up >.> don't try its not right!
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I guess its too much to ask to try and teach him the traffic pattern and proper way to set up a landing...
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Certain planes for some reason my brake wont work. My mustangs brakes work but the plane i spend 90% of the time in doesnt work, the f4u. This is what i do, I glid very slow into the area with the hangers touch down and just turn it side ways, ur wings will break along with ur gears but aslong as u stop on the grey it will count as a longing. Its kinda a sad but this is what works, i have tryed to land 5 6 kill sorties and just ended up slideing of the runway and then it counts as a ditch. Learn how to long the rite way but just so u noe u have options:lol
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I like to do the victory rolls with my rudder before I go land. I feel like a real ace when I come in for a pass at the runway lol
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Originally posted by lagger86
yes that helps a bunch....I may actually make it home in one peice, unless of course I get shot out of the sky(which happens far too often).
LoL, i know that feeling... its been a while i landed in the MA as well.
Best is to go offline or hop into the Training Arena and practice you take off and landings every now and then. Ask around in the TA, im sure you can find a trainer or a vet that can show you and talk you through a landing if you still have trouble.
Once you manage to stay on the runway.... start looking out for CVs (carriers) to land on :)
Try Seafier or a Hurricane Mk2 for first landings... in my experience, they are among the easiest ones, due to their good low speed handling.
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And remember, It's much easier to add power if you're short than bleed energy if you're long!
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Click here for a generic explanation of the traffic pattern (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_pattern)
1. Figure out the field elevation from the map (right click/show field elevations)
2. Approach your intended field at 1000 feet + field elevation. This puts you in a good altitude to set up a controlled landing.
3. Line your plane up along the runway you want to land on. Maintain field elevation plus 1000 feet.
4. Fly down the length of the runway, maintaining altitude.
5. At the end of the runway (or midfield as you get more comfortable with the process) turn left 90 degrees. Chop your throttle. Pull some g's on the turn and this will help start to slow you down.
6. Once you're established 90 degrees left of the runway, slowing down, this is called the "crosswind" leg. Maintain altitude either by using the "x" key or pitch back on the stick.
7. Turn left another 90 degrees, pull some g's again to continue to slow down. At this point, you should be 1000 feet above the runway, flying parallel to the runway, in the opposite direction you intend to land. This called the "downwind" leg. Your turn downwind should be made soon enough to keep you inside the airfield area, i.e. don't fly crosswind for more than 10-20 seconds or so.
8. As you fly downwind, you should be able to throw in a couple notches of flaps, and if slow enough, drop the gear. If you haven't slowed enough, don't worry. Maintain your altitude, and you will slow as you fly downwind.
9. Look out your back-left view, (keypad 1) and you should see the runway you want to land on as you fly parallel. Once the tire marks on the runway are approximately halfway between the trailing edge of your left wing and the left side of the fuselage (approx. 45 degrees behind and to your left) begin another left-hand, 90 degree turn. This is called turning base, or turning to the base leg.
10. Once you're established on the base leg, you should be slow enough to throw almost all the flaps in, and drop your gear. At this point you will probably need to add some power to compensate for all the drag caused by the flaps and gear. I'll give an example at the end.
11. Look out your left forward view or left view (keypad 7 and 4 respectively) and watch the end of the runway as it gets closer. You should be flying approximately perpendicular to the runway you want to land on. Anticipate when you need to make the final 90 degree left-hand turn based on your speed. As you approach that point, begin the last, left-hand turn where you should roll out lined up with the runway, above the runway, and a short distance before the approach end of the runway. This is called turning base to final, or turning final.
12. The final leg of the pattern is used to do your fine-tuning on heading, throwing in the last of the flaps necessary, and adjusting power to maintain a stable descent to the runway. If you haven't yet, drop your landing gear, and confirm you have green lights indicated. You've got approximately 7200 feet on the diagonal runways in AHII to land, which is more than enough in normal fighters and bombers. The east/west runways on medium and large fields are a little shorter, around 5000 feet long, which again is plenty of runway, just not as much as the diagonals.
13. At this point, check your speed which ideally is 1.2 times the stall speed of your airplane. A good rough rule of thumb in AHII is 120 mph indicated, which covers most planes. Maintain enough power to keep the plane from dropping too fast, but not enough that your speed starts increasing. Once you're over the end of the runway, reduce power, and let the plane glide down to the runway. Once you're just above the concrete, chop the throttle and pull slightly back on the stick, and the plane will settle down and hopefully you get a quick chirp confirming the wheels are down. Don't slap on the brakes, just slowly press the space bar until the plane is slowed sufficiently to apply constant brake and bring it to a stop.
14. If you're too high once you cross the end of the runway, reduce power, but maintain your pitch attitude, and you will lose altitude without increasing your speed. If you're too low, add power, but maintain your pitch attitude, and you will gain altitude without increasing your speed. This is counter-intuitive, as you will want to either push forward on the stick (too high) or pull back on the stick (too low). Don't do this when you're landing, because the results will be just the opposite of what you want. If you pull back on the stick, you will slow the plane down, and drop faster. If you push forward, you will speed the plane up, and land long. Remember, at this point, make all your adjustments with power only, maintaining about 120 mph indicated.
Now, all of this is really difficult to comprehend by reading my post. Hopefully, combined with the graphic in the link above, you can at least visualize what I'm trying to teach you. Landing a plane is THE most difficult part of flying, and don't forget that as you thrash the plane into the ground as you practice. But, once you finally figure out how to do it, its like riding a bike, you never forget how.
EXAMPLE (How I land a Corsair):
I'll come screaming in flying runway heading at about 300-450 mph sometimes. At midfield, I chop the throttle, and turn hard left (crosswind), pulling some G's (almost to blackout) and drop the gear as I do the turn (something typically only the Corsair can do at this speed). I fly crosswind for a few seconds and then turn left 90 degrees again (downwind). By this time, the gear is down, and I'm slowing rapidly. I can get in at least 2, if not 3 or 4 notches of flaps as soon as I'm established on the downwind leg. Once the flaps are going down, I watch the airspeed get down around 140-120, and set 25" of manifold. As I turn left again (base), I'll throw in the rest of the flaps, and start looking for the runway. As I'm established on the base leg, I'm usually showing gear down, full flaps, 25" of manifold, and about 110 mph indicated. The plane is also descending at the rate I want. As I turn final, speed is stabilized between 100-110 mph, and I'm settling down to the touchdown point. I then adjust my power down (if I'm high) or up (if I'm low) and continue to jockey the throttle to maintain my approach. Once I'm just above touchdown, I chop the throttle and pull back slightly (this is called a "flare"). The wheels almost always chirp as I flare, and the stall horn should be starting to sound. I then maintain back pressure on the stick to lock the tailwheel straight, and then begin to work the brakes to slow down. I adjust my direction on the runway with the rudder.
Now, most of the U.S. planes are not the easiest to land once you're on the runway, but I think they are some of the easiest to set up to land. Also, while the Spitfire may be the easiest plane to learn ACM's in, I think it is also difficult to land because of the narrow gear track--I think they are easy to tip over if you come in a little hot. What I recommend is taking up a D3A1 "Val" to practice your landings, as they are slow, maneuver at slow speeds well, have fixed gear with a wide track, and are easy to handle on the runway.
I hope this helps, and if you ever see me in the TA, I'd be more than happy to let you jump in my cockpit, and take a circuit around the landing pattern with you, to show you how I set all this up. As you gain experience, you'll be able to "cheat" your landings, doing things like making straight in approaches, coming in with slips, and all other manner of higher order techniques. Hopefully this will help you "land" your kills, and not ball the plane up off the runway...
Cheers
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My example is not necessarily the recommended technique for learning. When you're practicing, don't come in at 400 mph. I just mentioned that as something you can become capable of. It helps out around a HOT air field or if you want to check your six before you land.
Another thing, the P-38, with its tricycle gear and counter-rotating props is another good plane to practice in. There is no torque effect, and the tri-gear makes every landing look polished. But only move up to higher performing planes after you get the basics down.
Others will have their opinions, so YMMV...
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okay, I had to dig a bit, but here is a post I made a while back about landing.
It was originally for a Hog (F4U) but the principle is the same for all tail draggers (and if you don't pull back as hard, suffices for the tricycle geared A/C as well), and will plant you on the runway with all 3 wheels rotating.
Forgive the cut and paste please:
Here's what I do when landing, and it works for me.
Hog seems to be one of the harder to land and hold straight. Here's the secret.
You want to set your approach up so that as you pass the threshold of the runway, you are no faster than 110 mph or so. I use full flaps.
As you flair your airspeed will drop below 100 pretty quickly. Now as you are dropping below that 100 mph mark you should find that you are very close to touch down. If you can hold the nose a little high you can settle quite gently on all 3 points.
Once you are on the ground your speed will decay rapidly to the point that your wings won't generate enough lift to get you airborne again. Somewhere around 80 mph. Pull back on the stick. It willl lock the tailwheel, helping you to track straight, and allow you some limited steering via your rudder pedals. Apply brakes etc etc etc.
Now, If you find that you are a little fast on touch down and can't pull back on the stick to lock the tailwheel without becoming airborne again (bouncing down the runway), tap the C and V keys (left and right brakes) to keep straight untill you are slow enough to lock the tail wheel. (tap the left one first, and it is just a short tap).
If you are really fast and find yourself floating down the runway (in ground effect really) raise your flaps a notch and you should settle on to the cement.
The biggest thing to remember is that you want to make as near a 3 point landing as possible. Landing a hog on two wheels and trying to hold it straight is difficult to say the least. (although it is much improved over the old AHI Hog). It is a hvy lady and will want to swing around like a 300 pounder at a polka party.
hope this helps.
Cheers,
RTR
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I've gotten much better at landing now, thanks for all the good tips. I appreciate the fact that the people on here are willing to help others out. This game is really hard to play, but it's so fun...I'm hooked.
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Originally posted by lagger86
I'm hooked.
soul count +1 :t
Kidding. The challenge and the great community make this game what it is... a great WW2 online flight sim and an uncurable addiction :).
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Im startin to really hate landin the f4u. Carrier landings is no problem but on the runway its a pain. I must have dead 10 times tryin to land the thing. ANd its only the corsair, everything else i land no problem
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Lagger, you'll find basic landings get real easy after a while and as you improve your skill you'll want to learn what others have mentioned...that is coming in fast and breaking over the field for a combat landing.
A mistake lots of folks make is to slow down too early which makes them grapes and easy picking for a typical P51/190/109 zipping in the pork the field. Coming in as fast as you can gives you some options if there's an nmy in the vicinity so you need to learn it. In RL the pattern is called the "Break" if you're Navy and the "overhead" if you fly corporate jets like the USAF.
Here's how you do it. Come screaming in down the center of the runway at 500 ft (lower is fine also but don't be any higher, it makes slowing down harder), make a last visual check to make sure there are no nmy in the vicinity. If there are then kill them and re-enter the break. A little past mid-field chop your throttle to idle, roll 90deg (usually to the left) and pull hard enough to be at the edge of blackout. This is called the Break. Remember, you want high G and throttle at idle since the most important thing is to bleed off your excess airspeed. Keep your turn in and G on until you've turned 180 degrees and are headed back the way you came but offset to one side of the runway. Keep your engine at idle and start dropping flaps as soon as you get below 160. You don't really need flaps in AH but they do help you slow down. Just past the end of the runway (the 180) roll toward the runway and turn in as you continue to slow. Play the turn a bit to line up, drop your gear, use a little throttle to keep from stalling if necessary and plant it on the runway. Like the others said, get your stick all the way back as soon as you can to lock the tailwheel, this will help keep you straight as you roll out.
Do pretty much the same thing when you land on the boat except drop your hook (shift G) before you come in over the ship. Come in behind the boat at 500 ft or lower, break left one or two ship lengths ahead, slow on downwind, and turn to land when you're abeam the ramp (aft end of the ship). Turning while landing lets you keep sight of the ship as you slow unlike a straight in where you can't see it because of the nose of your plane. Remember the ship is heading away from you at about 30 kts so turning abeam the ramp works well.
Again, this isn't the way to learn at first but it's a good tactic for later... with some practice you'll find you can scream in at 400 mph and still land on a dime and be in the tower before the badguys can vulch you. Also, remember some planes slow down better than others. Spits, P51's etc. can be hard to slow down so chop throttle early (ME 262 is the worst). Typhoons, Hurricanes, Hogs (with gear down) all drop speed like rocks.
Good luck, have fun.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
Im startin to really hate landin the f4u. Carrier landings is no problem but on the runway its a pain. I must have dead 10 times tryin to land the thing. ANd its only the corsair, everything else i land no problem
The Corsair has lots of torque pulling you sideways and its tail has the nasty tendency to try and overtake the nose ("fishtail"). Its one of the hardest planes to land on a runway IMHO.
Try coming in real slow, just above stall, full flaps. Then, when you flare onto the runway, retract two notches of flaps (less lift!) and pull back on your stick to lock tailwheel. Just roll for a bit before you start careful wheelbraking.
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thanks Mace, I have been working on exactly what you are talking about...I've been picked off a few times trying to land on a hot runway, so your info is appreciated. Seems my plane of choice " the corsair"( I loved black sheep squadron as a kid) is tough to land by what I've read, so I guess when I master that, other planes should be a bit easier maybe.
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If you want to learn how to land on a CV just go get a B-17 or a C-47 and keep trying to stick the landing on the CV till you get it landing the B-17 on the CV will be alot like landing the F4U on the tarmac. The B-17 has to come in real slow to the CV to land at almost stall speed then right as you pass the edge of the CV you power all back and hit you brakes It is posible to land a B-17 on a CV Ive done it the 17 will take off agin if you have full power and full flaps but for some reason the smaller plane the C-47 wont take off so well. But anyway it will help you to learn to land a F4U on the tarmac and It will give a little help on CV landing. Just give it a try.
RED25:aok :noid :O
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CV landing is easier in my eyes. U just have to make sure u get that tail hook to catch one of the lines. full flaps and idle the engine(make sure u line up first), the f4u lets down the landing gear at almost 400mph so that not a problem. Just make sure the ur nose is upo so the prop dont hit, and even if it does as long as u catch the line u landed.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
Im startin to really hate landin the f4u. Carrier landings is no problem but on the runway its a pain. I must have dead 10 times tryin to land the thing. ANd its only the corsair, everything else i land no problem
instead of using the space bar to brake use the "C" and "V" keys to brake..this is how i brake my a/c cus it also helps me steer the plane using the brakes... if your F4U has tendancies to fishtail use independant braking to to help keep her on the runway...wanna turn right use the right brake... vise-versa for turning left...
just a suggestion...
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Originally posted by bkbandit
CV landing is easier in my eyes. U just have to make sure u get that tail hook to catch one of the lines. full flaps and idle the engine(make sure u line up first), the f4u lets down the landing gear at almost 400mph so that not a problem. Just make sure the ur nose is upo so the prop dont hit, and even if it does as long as u catch the line u landed.
The gear is not made to land at 400mph niether is the body (i've tried:D ) the gear is ment as a dive brake for bombing. But if you come in to fast you can get that fancy lil slingshot action going on or what happend in my 400mph land i ripped the tail off and went boom.
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i noe that, i its just easier puting down the gears ealry to slow down and not haveing to worry about them breakin off, alot of time i forget that other planes landin gears r weak and i break them off, f4u doesnt have this problem and it makes it alot easier.
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man its easy in this gane as long as you end up on the pavement.
i dont even bother with the landing gear anymore unless i want to refuel and rearm. just slow the plane down and drop the flaps. and slide on in. just try to be somewhere around the 150 range and ull make it alright. and its faster than waiting for your brakes to do thier job. its what u need when u got vulchers chillin around ur base.
but if it were me id probably just shoot the vulchers down :P
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What you described earlier was a problem called a groundloop. When you touch down in the F4U's and other tailwheel airplane you want to lock your tailwheel. I don't like that we don't have a button for it (or if we do I don't know it!) however if you pull the stick full-back this will lock the tailwheel and help you avoid the groundloop.
2 important items:
Make sure you're on the ground when you do it!
Make sure you're below flying speed...otherwise you're going skyward again and the tailwheel locked doesn't help you in the least :)
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come in low and slow,,,120ish...kust as it's about to touch.. kill throttle... landing gear??? who needs it???