Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: CMC Airboss on June 13, 2006, 07:13:56 PM
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PARIS, June 13 (Reuters) - European aircraft manufacturer Airbus announced on Tuesday fresh delays to deliveries of its flagship A380 superjumbo that parent company EADS said could cut its earnings between 2007 and 2010.
"We have had an industrial delay. It will shift the programme to the right by six to seven months," John Leahy, Airbus chief commercial officer, told Reuters.
Airbus Announces Fresh Delivery Delays (http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articlehybrid.aspx?storyID=urn:newsml:reuters.com:20060613:MTFH03296_2006-06-13_17-32-06_L137064&type=comktNews&rpc=44)
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Old news
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How about the problem with somone cutting cable inside the A380 on the assembly line. Is that old news?
A380 Cables Cut (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060610/bs_afp/franceaerospacecompany_060610114920)
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PARIS, June 13 (Reuters) - European aircraft manufacturer Airbus announced on Tuesday fresh delays
Unless Reuters is overly slow, I would think "Fresh delays" announced tuesday would not refer to old delays, but fresh ones.
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Originally posted by Dago
How about the problem with somone cutting cable inside the A380 on the assembly line. Is that old news?
A380 Cables Cut (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060610/bs_afp/franceaerospacecompany_060610114920)
From that link:
"The double-decker A380, which can transport between 555 and 840 people or 40 percent more than the US rival Boeing 747, is the largest commercial airliner ever built -- 240 feet (73 metres) in length and 80 feet (24 metres) high, with a wingspan of 88 feet (80 metres)."
Someone better check their numbers.
240 feet = 73 metres
80 feet = 24 metres
88 feet = 80 metres oops
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There's always delays with new aircraft. No biggie.
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our Boeing secret agent has accomplished his mission:noid
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Yesterday Boeing announced they had "bubbles" in some composite components in its newest prototype....seems both players in this game are having their share of development issues.
Linky (http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=fc80f1fb-6231-49e8-81bb-5241e1640d99&Dynamic=1&Range=NOW&FromDate=06%2F10%2F2006&ToDate=06%2F14%2F2006&Category=%2Findex.cfm)
Seems about normal for a project of this scale
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i read a couple weeks ago that the A380 has thrust reversers on only the inboard engines.
anyone know if this is this true of the 747s also?
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The 747 does indeed have TR's on all four engines.
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Originally posted by Debonair
i read a couple weeks ago that the A380 has thrust reversers on only the inboard engines.
A rumour says that Airbus didn't want to include reversers at all, but did so due to FAA requirements.
However that is only a rumour, so take it with lots of salt.
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Keeping the thrust reversers off of the airplane would have been a nice weight savings.
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Originally posted by CMC Airboss
Keeping the thrust reversers off of the airplane would have been a nice weight savings.
Stopping that big ugly thing would have been interesting on a contaminated runway. Hate to think of the extra cost of brakes and tires it would go through without reversers.
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do TRs need to be operated symetrically, or if #2 is dead, can #3 still be used to slow down the big bus so it can make the high speed exit onto taxiway kilo?
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What I find odd (not really...) is Beet1e's dismissal of such news that are negative in context that deal with EADS. He's certainly always present to ra ra them with its good news. Beet1e? Comments other than old news? ;)
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Originally posted by Debonair
do TRs need to be operated symetrically, or if #2 is dead, can #3 still be used to slow down the big bus so it can make the high speed exit onto taxiway kilo?
The TRs are normally operated symetrically, especially on anything less than a dry durface. Although, I suppose TR induced ground loop might slow the plane down really fast if only one thrust reverser was applied when landing on a slick surface.
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With one TR out on the RC-135, we used to put the assymetric engine in idle reverse and use full reverse on the symmetrical engines. If things were going to shirt, you pulled the assymetric engine in too and compensated with rudder. That was just sorta the last rabbit you had left to pull out of your hat type of deal though.
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BTW, IIRC, SAC did a study on reversers and could not find one runway excursion of an aircraft w/o thrust reversers that could have been avoided if that aircraft had been equipped with t/r's.
That's why most SAC aircraft didn't have reversers.
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Ouch. Customers are pretty steamed about the delays. Only 1 airplane will be delivered this year and 9 next year (instead of 25). Quantas is looking for compensation and interim aircraft to handle the pax load. Emerites is also looking for compensation. Singapore has already sold seats on the airplanes they won't be receiving. I hope Boeing takes heed of this situation and applies the lessons-learned during the launch of the 787.
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747-8 looking better and better :D
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Originally posted by CMC Airboss
Ouch. Customers are pretty steamed about the delays. Only 1 airplane will be delivered this year and 9 next year (instead of 25). Quantas is looking for compensation and interim aircraft to handle the pax load. Emerites is also looking for compensation. Singapore has already sold seats on the airplanes they won't be receiving. I hope Boeing takes heed of this situation and applies the lessons-learned during the launch of the 787.
I can't think of a new Boeing model that was delayed that long, can you? (Dating myself, but I built the Wing-to-Join body tools for the 757 and 767 in 1980-1981) Of course, we had McDonald Douglas to worry about then, so we were NEVER late on a new launch. Same with the 777.
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dang rip, another 10 years and you should be able to retire......
Airbus might be suffering from a wee bit of overconfidence as it struggles to wire up the A380 (wiring these things up is indeed a miracle of nature).
Boeing has been doing this stuff since the early 1900s and has some experience at it. As usual, Airbus (aka Europe) has had the benifit of a major industrial rebuild (aka UPGRADE) at the massive expense of the United States via the infrastructural destruction caused by WW2 (aka HITLER), and has benifited from simply observing the masters at work all these years.
Problem is you cant just watch a master do his work and then build a masterpiece yourself. You have to experience the failures of building your own masterpiece in order to truly make one.
Airbus is, at a minimum, a solid generation behind Boeing and I think more and more customers will finally come to understand this over the next year and order 787s and 747-8s simply in order to continue doing business into 2020.
The A380 really is the first airplane Airbus has ever truly done, and it shows.
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Originally posted by Toad
There's always delays with new aircraft. No biggie.
EADS lost a quarter of their stock value today. (26%) :eek:
Moodys downgraded EADS from 'stable' to 'negative'
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Originally posted by Yeager
dang rip, another 10 years and you should be able to retire......
That's the plan, but I'm gonna stay until I'm 59 1/2 (Wife is 4 years younger and she will retire at the same time) so I actually have 13 more years. (Hired in at 18 in 1979)
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Ripsnort,
OK, this is a new story, not the original A380 delay story from about a year ago, which was discussed at length in this (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=152114) thread. I've just reread that thread, and it's quite interesting, largely because of my own contributions. :D
Driving into LHR airport on Sunday to meet Mietla, I could hardly avoid noticing the big signs up all over the place, advertising the Singapore Airlines deployment of A380 services later this year. So this time I did read CMC's article (I was pressed for time earlier - sorry) but even in that article it says Leahy said the company was still on track to have the plane certified and to deliver its first aircraft to Singapore Airlines Ltd (SIAL.SI: Quote, Profile, Research) by end-2006
which suggests that the signs bearing the SIA advertisement at LHR are indeed correct, and that A380 deployment will take place within 2006 as originally planned, and that maybe the delays are not too serious for the other airlines.
:)
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I dont think i have bashed the a380 before, it's kinda neat, and even if did I always liked the idea of a big giant plane.
Anyway this worries me, this is a big problem.
26% stock price drop in 1 day
projected 500 million less profits for 2 or 3 years
annual production cut to a fraction of the original estimate
and now reports of outright sabotage on the production line
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
and now reports of outright sabotage on the production line
Could happen to everyone. I wouldn't be surprised if it was sponsored by Boeing. At times they seem to be somewhat bitter rivals.
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Originally posted by Yeager
The A380 really is the first airplane Airbus has ever truly done, and it shows.
The first twin-engined widebody (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A300). That's if the Concorde doesn't count.
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2 6-month delays seem easier to announce than a 1-year delay don't they? =) I think at the first delay the customers might have sensed they were getting the run around and wanted a firm date. They were provided one... only to have it slip again. I can understand their disappointment. Now with the A350 (which is going to be renamed since that name is soiled A370?) it will be interesting to see if customers believe their delivery date... I would imagine it will be moved up as close as possible to when customers could now receive a 787, regardless of when it will really will be delivered.
I'm not exactly neutral... like Rip I work for Boeing, but I still think the A380 is an awesome achievement. The delivery slip and false promises are to blame on the marketing types and people too afraid to see or tell the truth... but the plane itself is a wonder. Will they make a profit on it like they promised? Not sure... but to anyone who has every looked up in the sky and thought 'COOL!' the A380 is something to behold.
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Yes Paxil! I think it will succeed, but as a hub-to-hub aircraft. It's tailor made for the Asia-Pacific region - South-East Asia, Australia, New Zealand and across the Pacific to the western US - an area where there are vast distances to be covered, but with relatively few airports and therefore no complex labyrinth of routes.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Yes Paxil! I think it will succeed, but as a hub-to-hub aircraft. It's tailor made for the Asia-Pacific region - South-East Asia, Australia, New Zealand and across the Pacific to the western US - an area where there are vast distances to be covered, but with relatively few airports and therefore no complex labyrinth of routes.
It might become useful also on the route between Europe and China, and Asian region in general, like India for example. Both countries have a growing economy which means more tourists back and forth, along with a good bunch of business customers.
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how many gallons could the A380 hold if they made it into a air refueling tanker or if they made it into a fire fighting aircraft like the evergreen 747??:eek: :confused:
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dunno...couldn't you just ask the pilots of the southwest airplanes you jumpseat on to help snuff out a fire?
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Originally posted by RAIDER14
how many gallons could the A380 hold if they made it into a air refueling tanker or if they made it into a fire fighting aircraft like the evergreen 747??:eek: :confused:
Supposedly A330 is the air refueling bus of the airbus family.
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Euro Air Tanker Site (http://www.airtanker.co.uk/)
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Originally posted by beet1e
Ripsnort,
OK, this is a new story, not the original A380 delay story from about a year ago, which was discussed at length in this (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=152114) thread. I've just reread that thread, and it's quite interesting, largely because of my own contributions. :D
Driving into LHR airport on Sunday to meet Mietla, I could hardly avoid noticing the big signs up all over the place, advertising the Singapore Airlines deployment of A380 services later this year. So this time I did read CMC's article (I was pressed for time earlier - sorry) but even in that article it says which suggests that the signs bearing the SIA advertisement at LHR are indeed correct, and that A380 deployment will take place within 2006 as originally planned, and that maybe the delays are not too serious for the other airlines.
:)
I think its much more serious than just Singapore, Beet1e. Read the bold areas below:
PARIS - Airlines around the world punished Airbus on Wednesday for delays in the delivery of its A380 superjumbo, demanding compensation, reconsidering orders — and in one case, striking a major deal with its rival Boeing Co.
Shares in Airbus' parent company crashed and Boeing's soared as repercussions of the production problems with the world's biggest passenger plane resonated throughout the industry.
They also raised questions about the European planemaker's management and strategy, and the future of the double-decker A380. Boeing is staking its bets on a smaller, more fuel-efficient model.
Singapore Airlines, one of the world's top carriers and the first to buy the A380, said it was unhappy with the delays Airbus announced Tuesday. It demanded compensation and, on Wednesday, worsened the blow by announcing it would buy 20 Boeing 787-9 aircraft worth $4.52 billion and take options on another 20 planes.
Emirates Airlines, another sought-after buyer, said it was reconsidering its order of 45 A380s. Australia's Qantas Airways said it was seeking talks with Airbus over its orders for 12 A380s and wants some of its money back. Malaysia Airlines said it was reviewing terms of its deal for six of the planes.
Airbus parent European Aeronautic Defense & Space Co. saw billions of dollars wiped off its value Wednesday as shares plummeted by 26 percent to close at 18.80 euros ($23.63), after it warned that operating profit would be cut by about 500 million euros ($625 million) each year between 2007 and 2010.
Shares in Boeing Co., meanwhile, rose $5.03, or 6.5 percent, to close at $82.01 on the New York Stock Exchange.
The dismal day for Airbus reflected a sharp shift in the Toulouse, France-based company's fortunes since the 555-passenger A380 took a triumphant maiden flight last year over the Pyrenees. Airbus overtook Boeing in order numbers in 2001 and in deliveries in 2003 and until recently looked in robust shape.
But the anger fueled by Tuesday's announcement of production bottlenecks with the plane's electrical systems — the second major delay for the $300 million A380 — suggests a less rosy future for the planemaker.
"Boeing is eating Airbus' lunch, certainly this year. And they'll do it again next year and for the foreseeable future, unless Airbus can pull a rabbit out of a hat," said Jim Smith, aviation analyst and editor of Jane's Transport Finance.
It was the second Airbus project to falter in recent years, after the A350, which it hoped would be the answer to Boeing's 787.
The Singapore-Boeing deal stung especially deep because Airbus had hoped Singapore Airlines would be one of the first and biggest customers for the A350. But airline dissatisfaction with the A350 has forced Airbus to redesign some of its parts and consider a costly overhaul, delaying its launch for several years.
Airbus insisted Wednesday that it was not the A380 itself but minor production problems at fault for the delay.
"There have been minor production issues which have accumulated into a large number and require a complete, very detailed rethinking of the installation process of wires and harnesses," said Thore Prang, spokesman for the company in Hamburg. "It has nothing to do with the aircraft."
The A380 delay "couldn't be a worse timing for Airbus," said aviation analyst Richard Pinkham of the Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation. "Especially as it comes on the heels of the PR problems they had with the A350."
With the A380, Airbus was taking a risk, since only a few of the world's airports have runways long enough and terminals that can be modified to deal with its double deckers, analysts said.
Airbus wagered that the airline industry would increasingly offer large flights to international hubs. But Boeing bet that air travel would be marked by the need for fuel efficiency and long-haul flights and is focusing on the 330-passenger 787.
"EADS made a strategic error by opting for a jumbo-sized jet rather than a fuel efficient model, especially if the price of oil increases further," said Matthieu Raimbault of French brokerage Viel Tradition.
Singapore was the first carrier to buy the A380, ordering 10 with an option to purchase another 15. Airbus said the first delivery to Singapore was still expected by the end of this year.
But deliveries will likely be limited to nine in 2007 instead of the 20 to 25 initially planned, Airbus said, with an additional shortfall of five to nine A380 deliveries expected in 2008 and "around five" in 2009.
Emirates Airlines said it was told to expect a six-month delay. "We are considering our position and will be engaging with the manufacturer over the next few weeks," the airline said in a statement.
Airbus' chief commercial officer, John Leahy, confirmed that the company will incur more late delivery penalties, but declined to provide a figure. It could in theory also face order cancellations.
EADS co-CEO Noel Forgeard, who in 2000 oversaw the launch of the A380 as the head of Airbus, deflected suggestions that the setback could cost him his job.
"We have now to find the right ways forward," Forgeard said in a conference call Wednesday.
The troubles at Airbus damage the credibility of EADS management and may bleed over into its defense business.
Already they hit BAE Systems PLC, which owns 20 percent of Airbus but has been seeking to sell its stake. BAE dismissed concerns that the Airbus problems would hurt the price it could get for its stake, and its shares came off earlier lows to end the day down 1.1 percent at 345 pence ($6.35) on the London Stock Exchange.
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Originally posted by Fishu
A rumour says that Airbus didn't want to include reversers at all, but did so due to FAA requirements.
However that is only a rumour, so take it with lots of salt.
They had to install the thrusters...The pilot had to pull on the stick so hard that the wood wore off on the tires to quickly.
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Rip, why are you confusing Beetle with factual info? You know this will be spun into something....entertaining.
snipped from Yahoo news...
The news comes amid revelations that Forgeard and his family and other top EADS managers sold off shares before Airbus announced the delays, which sent the company's stock tumbling and angered airlines worldwide.
Shares in EADS plunged more than 25 percent Wednesday after the delay and a profit warning, shaving millions of dollars off the company's value. Stock prices rallied Thursday, closing at 20.00 euros ($25.16), up 6.8 percent.
They remained well below the price of mid-March, when Forgeard, his family and other managers sold off large packets of shares, according to filings with France's stock market regulator AMF.
Forgeard exercised 2.5 million euros ($3.1 million) worth of options at 32.01 euros ($40.21), and three of his children each sold 1.4 million euros ($1.75 million) worth of shares in the same period, at 32.82 euros ($41.23), according to the regulator. Board members Francois Auque and Jean-Paul Gut also sold shares.
Lagardere's company, Lagardere SA, also sold half of its 15 percent stake in EADS earlier this year, but he insisted that he had no idea of the A380's troubles until this week.
"We had no information," he was quoted in Le Monde as saying. "If we had been dishonest, we would not have sold 7.5 percent but all of our shares."
EADS said Forgeard's share sales were not informed by the A380's production delays and that all the transactions by management fully meet the company's compliance rules. Board members have only three weeks each quarter when they can trade their shares, EADS said.
A representative declined to comment further and would not say whether the sales were on a predetermined schedule.
"All of this seriously hurts the image of this European jewel" and "sharpens the teeth of Boeing," the daily Liberation wrote Thursday. "And it gives a bit of grist for the mill ... for the bards of Euroskepticism."
The production delays raised questions about the A380's future, as rival Boeing Co. is staking its bets on a smaller, more fuel-efficient model.
Airlines worldwide demanded compensation, reconsidered orders — and crucial customer Singapore Airlines slapped Airbus in the face with a deal Wednesday for 20 Boeing 787-9 aircraft worth $4.52 billion. Airbus had hoped Singapore would buy the A350, a planned competitor to the 787 that has been plagued with problems.
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Wow! Wonder if they'll cook 'em like they did Martha Stewart...
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Too early to say.
Singapore Airlines, one of the world's top carriers and the first to buy the A380, said it was unhappy with the delays Airbus announced Tuesday. It demanded compensation and, on Wednesday, worsened the blow by announcing it would buy 20 Boeing 787-9 aircraft worth $4.52 billion and take options on another 20 planes.
That's a sizeable order, so it's funny that there's nothing about it on the fleet info section of the Singapore Airlines website (http://www.singaporeair.com/saa/en_UK/content/company_info/siastory/fleet.jsp).
As for the claim that "Qantas Airways said it was seeking talks with Airbus over its orders for 12 A380s and wants some of its money back.", The Qantas newsdesk web page (http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/dyn/au/publicaffairs/details?ArticleID=2006/jun06/3440) reports the story thus: The Chief Executive Officer of Qantas, Mr Geoff Dixon, said today that Qantas would hold discussions with Airbus in the next two weeks after a thorough internal review of the implications for Qantas of the delay.
"Our discussions with Airbus will centre around the new delivery timetable, competitive issues, compensation and possible short-term replacement aircraft," he said.
Mr Dixon said Qantas would not be able to assess the full impact of the delay until completing its internal review.
"We would hope to alleviate some of the difficulties by deferring the retirement of aircraft, redirecting capacity and securing replacement capacity."
Um, I didn't see anything in there about Qantas asking for its money back, which tallies with the Qantas announcement that discussions will be held with Airbus after a thorough internal review. This story appeared on the Qantas newsdesk barely 2 days ago - hardly time to complete "a thorough internal review".
So I think we need to wait to hear it from the airlines themselves. Did someone say something about "factual info"? :rofl
Yes, well even though we all know that the papers and other news sources always tell the truth, I think I'll wait to hear it straight from the horse's mouth. :aok
:D
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Originally posted by (http://www.dcs.bbk.ac.uk/~hlamh01/mr-ed.jpg)
A380 is teh ghey
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Originally posted by beet1e
Um, I didn't see anything in there about Qantas asking for its money back, which tallies with the Qantas announcement that discussions will be held with Airbus after a thorough internal review. This story appeared on the Qantas newsdesk barely 2 days ago - hardly time to complete "a thorough internal review".
Hmm, maybe the british interpret the following words differently than the rest of the world? Or it could be just the ignorant do?
competitive issues, compensation
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Hmm, maybe the british interpret the following words differently than the rest of the world? [/B]
Could it be that Americans have their own interpretations of certain words, which differ from the rest of the world? Classic example: football. I think I picked a good time to post that one.
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I think the delays are bad news but there is a lot of posturing going on between the companies in order to negoitiate the compensation terms.
Also I don't believe there is a lot of metal cut on the 787 yet and so chest beating from Seattle is a bit premature I think. The 787 will have it fair share of new technology problems I'm sure (although much of the materials technology has been funded through the backdoor of X32).
The interesting point for me in that article is the emphasis on the problems with the electrical installation. I am an aircraft electrician and although I haven't personally been on it I work with many who have. The problem is two fold - where it's being built and the complexity and size of the electrical install.
1. There simply isn't the size of skilled labour force in the Toulouse area to support what they are doing there - A330, A340 and now A380 production. There is now a constant requirement for contract workers for Toulouse. A large proportion of the UK contract electrical pool is over there already - rates are increasing to attract people - any of you US aircraft workers fancy it ?? - rates are now between £23 - £26 per hour and working week is limited by French unions to 44 but you may get pay for 50-60. Electrical installers are particularly hard to find.
2. The Electrical systems are massive - power generation for a start is completely different due to the need for such large amounts. The flight deck systems are all new. The cabin is effectively two aircraft in one - two 300 Pax aircraft one on top of the other but with todays pax expectations everyone wants the latest IFE, seat power, mood lighting, internet access etc. and of course the distances involved are huge.
Basically it should have been built in Germany or the UK where there is a skilled workforce and the Elecrical system was not well enough planned ahead.
787 will not have the scale issue to overcome but I think the new materials technology is going to raise it's own problems and the cabin systems are going to be ....... interesting ;) - I've personally seen some of what's proposed and oh boy are we going to have fun LOL !
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Yeah Beetle. Airbus sold every one of their A380s at list price, and the customers will be happy to wait a couple more years. They're not seeking compensation and making a lot of noise about cancelling contracts so they can reduce their economic exposure. They're just glad to be part of the team.
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Now then, Sparks - you know it's bad form to taint a good trollpost with the facts, but I think you're bang out of order to come up with a perfectly lucid explanation about the workforce, shortage of skilled engineers in Toulouse etc. Where do you think you are, man? This is the AH O'Club, let me remind you! ;)
Hehe, electrical engineer - I've only just realised why your handle is Sparks!
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i read that A380 sucks, smells like farts & the passengers all turn queer 'cause they're in the big ghey bird.
USA!
USA!
USA!
(http://sportsmed.starwave.com/media/classic/2001/1221/photo/80podium_i.jpg)
(http://www.incrediblystrangewrestling.com/images/bio/bio_wrestler_13.gif)
(http://www.wizards.com/sideboard/images/natus03/660.jpg)
pwnd
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Originally posted by beet1e
Now then, Sparks - you know it's bad form to taint a good trollpost with the facts, but I think you're bang out of order to come up with a perfectly lucid explanation about the workforce, shortage of skilled engineers in Toulouse etc. Where do you think you are, man? This is the AH O'Club, let me remind you! ;)
Hehe, electrical engineer - I've only just realised why your handle is Sparks!
Plenty of facts here Beet, however picking and choosing facts that are consistent with your beliefs is called ignorance.
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It looks like beetle may have known about this old news before the EADS co-Chairman.
Jet's Delay Shows Cracks in the Top Tier at EADS
New York Times 06/16/2006
Authors: Niclola Clark and Katrin Bennhold
c. 2006 New York Times Company
PARIS, June 15 -- As European Aeronautic Defense and Space grapples with a tumbling stock price and major delays in the delivery of Airbus's superjumbo jet, the A380, signs of tension among the top ranks are beginning to surface.
Arnaud Lagardère, the co-chairman of EADS, the parent company of Airbus, said in an interview that he had no knowledge of the delays until shortly before Airbus made its announcement on Tuesday. Airbus said that delivery of the double-decker A380, the world's biggest passenger jet, would be delayed by six to seven months, which would reduce operating profit by a total of $2.5 billion from 2007 to 2010.
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Airbus is hitting an internal tailspin - lots of finger pointing now.
Airbus, Parent Blame Each Other Over A380 Delays
The Wall Street Journal 06/16/2006
Author: Daniel Michaels
(Copyright (c) 2006, Dow Jones & Company, Inc.)
European plane maker Airbus and its parent company European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co. headed for a major management showdown as executives traded blame for costly delays in deliveries of a key aircraft project, the A380 super-jumbo jet.
Top officials at EADS, which owns 80% of Airbus, said they learned in April that the A380 faced possible delays, the seriousness of which was confirmed by a company study completed over the weekend. EADS managers blame Airbus managers for the problems.
The recriminations bring to the fore simmering animosities between rivals and across national lines in EADS, a Franco-German industrial giant that had been considered a model of European integration. They also raise questions about communication and management oversight at the company, which was created in 2000 from the merger of aerospace companies in France, Germany and Spain.
Airbus announced Tuesday that deliveries of its double-decker A380, designed to be the world's largest passenger jet, would be postponed a further six months because of the unexpected complexity of wiring the aircraft. The A380 was already facing six months of delays, and EADS said in its Tuesday night statement that the new holdup would shave €2 billion ($2.5 billion) in operating profit between 2007 and 2010.
Yesterday an EADS executive revised the projection further, saying the delays would have a "slight effect" on the company's profitability this year as well.
The holdups -- which caused EADS shares to fall 26% Wednesday -- could put Airbus at a significant disadvantage as it battles U.S. rival Boeing Co. for dominance of the world's passenger-jet market. EADS shares rallied yesterday, closing at €20 ($25.18), up 6.8%.
In an interview with French newspaper Le Monde, EADS Co-Chairman Arnauld Lagardère was quoted as saying a probe was being launched into the latest delays in the $12 billion A380 project. Mr. Lagardère said in the interview that the investigation was aimed at determining the actions of Airbus Chief Executive Gustav Humbert. Mr. Lagardère also raised questions about the future of EADS co-CEO Noël Forgeard, who ran Airbus before Mr. Humbert. EADS spokesman Michael Hauger confirmed information in Le Monde's interview.
Mr. Forgeard himself already pointed blame toward Mr. Humbert on Wednesday during a conference call with analysts. Yet Mr. Forgeard has also drawn scrutiny for selling EADS shares less than three months before Tuesday's announcement.
Mr. Hauger, the EADS spokesman, said Airbus executives including Mr. Humbert in mid-April informed EADS managers, including Mr. Forgeard, that "some delays couldn't be avoided" but the extent couldn't be determined. Mr. Hauger said Mr. Lagardère and co-Chairman Manfred Bischoff weren't informed of the issue. EADS asked Airbus to give more detail on the problem. That study concluded this past Sunday, according to Airbus. Mr. Hauger said EADS managers learned the extent of the problem at that point.
Britain's BAE Systems PLC, which owns 20% of Airbus alongside EADS, said in a statement Wednesday that it learned the extent of the A380's problems on June 13. "While both Airbus shareholders have discussed the possibility of delays in the schedule in recent months," BAE wasn't given details until the Airbus announcement.
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Originally posted by CMC Airboss
Airbus is hitting an internal tailspin - lots of finger pointing now.
Originally posted by beet1e
Now then, Airboss - you know it's bad form to taint a good trollpost with the facts, but I think you're bang out of order to come up with a perfectly lucid explanation about the workforce, shortage of skilled engineers in Toulouse etc. Where do you think you are, man? This is the AH O'Club, let me remind you! ;)
Hehe, mechanical engineer - I've only just realised why your handle is Airboss!
Fixed! :D
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:D
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Originally posted by CMC Airboss
It looks like beetle may have known about this old news before the EADS co-Chairman.
And it looks as if your news source knows about Singapore Airlines plans to order "20 Boeing 787-9 aircraft worth $4.52 billion and take options on another 20 planes" before Singapore Airlines themselves. I've just rechecked their website - there's still no report about this order.
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Originally posted by beet1e
And it looks as if your news source knows about Singapore Airlines plans to order "20 Boeing 787-9 aircraft worth $4.52 billion and take options on another 20 planes" before Singapore Airlines themselves. I've just rechecked their website - there's still no report about this order.
http://www.singaporeair.com/saa/en_UK/content/company_info/press_release/NE_2606.jsp
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Originally posted by beet1e
And it looks as if your news source knows about Singapore Airlines plans to order "20 Boeing 787-9 aircraft worth $4.52 billion and take options on another 20 planes" before Singapore Airlines themselves. I've just rechecked their website - there's still no report about this order.
You better send them a complaint then Beet1e...you see, its being reported everywhere but there!
http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2006/06/15/boeing_wins_452b_order_for_new_787s/
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aWkBf8wyVcHA&refer=us
http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2006/q2/060614b_nr.html
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
http://www.singaporeair.com/saa/en_UK/content/company_info/press_release/NE_2606.jsp
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
THanks for the laugh Beet. Now my day is complete. Time to go weed the garden. (snickers)
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toodle pip?
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Originally posted by beet1e
Could it be that Americans have their own interpretations of certain words, which differ from the rest of the world? Classic example: football. I think I picked a good time to post that one.
Beet.....I know your generally not wrapped to tight, but what does compensation have to do with football?
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Oh, it's there now.
So now - what do you want from me? Last time I checked, I was not an investor/shareholder in Airbus!
:rofl
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Originally posted by weaselsan
Beet.....I know your generally not wrapped to tight
That would be "you're" and "too".
:aok
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Originally posted by beet1e
That would be "you're" and "too".
:aok
that proovs it.....
That would be compensation....not football.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Oh, it's there now.
So now - what do you want from me? Last time I checked, I was not an investor/shareholder in Airbus!
:rofl
Your lucky. The insiders dumped their stock for a big profit before word came out of major problems.
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Oh, and Rip - from the SIA website WRT that 787-9 order...
Deliveries will be scheduled between early 2011 and mid 2013, and will be for fleet renewal as well as to cater for growth.
Yeah - everything to do with the A380 being delayed by a few months, and let's not forget that SIA will still get their A380s in 2006, as planned!
:aok
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/lmao.gif)
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Originally posted by beet1e
Oh, and Rip - from the SIA website WRT that 787-9 order... Yeah - everything to do with the A380 being delayed by a few months, and let's not forget that SIA will still get their A380s in 2006, as planned!
:aok
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/lmao.gif)
You *do* know that Singpore was speaking with airbus about the A350 (now possibly to be known as the A370?) and potential for being the flagship carrier of that new aircraft, right? Probably not...you've proven your knowledge of the industry well in this thread. ;)
Originally posted by beet1e
Oh, it's there now.
So now - what do you want from me? Last time I checked, I was not an investor/shareholder in Airbus!
:rofl
So, I guess you need to be a shareholder to understand the industry,(http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/images/smilies/screwy.gif) so why do you even bother to post in such threads, Beet? Outta your league, wouldn't you agree? Toodle Pips!(http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/images/smilies/fruit.gif)
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Hey airboss, you seem to know alot, are you sort of an airline expert?
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
so why do you even bother to post in such threads, Beet?
I was answering your request to comment further. What you actually said was "Beet1e? Comments other than old news?" Outta your league, wouldn't you agree?
Oh, so now it's my fault that SIA has not updated their fleet web page with the 787-9 order. Like I said, I have not had time to make a blow by blow assessment of this latest news. ^ What I actually said was "I was pressed for time earlier - sorry". The story is on the SIA newsdesk but not the fleet info page, which is supposed to carry details of orders yet to be delivered - the A380 is in there, for example. But, if it makes you happy to blame me personally for this anomaly within the SIA website, I guess you don't really have much worth adding to this thread. :rolleyes:
So let's just stick with the facts! The salient points are these. - There has been a further delay of 6-7 months in the A380 delivery schedule.
- Rip's article that I quoted earlier states that SIA will still get delivery of the first A380s in 2006.
- The 787-9 deliveries won't begin until 2011, and won't be complete until 2013 - assuming there are no delays.
SIA has always been largely a Boeing airline, because their fleet relies on having the very largest long range aircraft. Study their route map, and you'll see why. I'm not going to give a geography lesson. They used to have A340 in 181 seat config - presumably for that long LAX route - more than 14,000km, but it looks as if these have been decommissioned, along with their 747-400s.
So again, what I find funny is the Ripsnortian spin machine logic which attempts to twist the facts to make it look as if the 787-9 order (up to seven years away from delivery) has something to do with an A380 delay of a matter of a few months - even though his own source states that SIA will still get their A380s in 2006! :lol
So Ripsnort, I guess LePaul was right after all - Originally posted by LePaul
You know this will be spun into something....entertaining.
:rofl