Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: WhiteHawk on June 16, 2006, 07:26:52 PM
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Well, here I go again.
Fluoride facts.
1.) Fluoride is toxic. More toxic than lead. Read the back of your toothpaste tube for the poison control warning. It is also used as rat poison.
2.) Fluoride is added to most municipal water supplies without consent of the civilians. The theory is it prevents cavities.
3.) If fluoride is useful in the prevention of cavities, it only need be applied topically, not ingested. THERE IS ABSOLUTLEY NO MORE BENIFIT IN INGESTING FLUORIDE THAN THERE IS IN RINSING THE MOUTH WITH THE SAME DRINK.
4.) There is no reason to drink or eat fluoride for the prevention of cavities or any other medical condition.
5.) Sodium fluoiride is a toxic waste byproduct of the manufacture of aluminum. Your tax dollars pay aluminum manufacturers for the fluoride that is injected into your water. Otherewise, these companies would have to hire toxic waste disposal companies to take care of the fluoride.
6.) 99.5% of the water in your household goes down the drain. Assuming that fluoride is a dental god-send, this is the most inefficient and wasteful ways get it to do its job that one can imagine.
7.) Foriegn companies are scooping up and privitizing US water companies by the droves. Their dirty little paws on the flow control nozzle for the fluoride injector.
Ahhh, what the hell. What could possibly go wrong with this situation?
:confused:
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Let me guess... It causes cancer....
I hear the O'Club causes cancer too...
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WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!! SWEET JESIUS NOOOOOO!!!!
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Ripper: Mandrake?
Mandrake: Yes, Jack?
Ripper: Have you ever seen a Commie drink a glass of water?
Mandrake: Well, I can't say I have.
Ripper: Vodka, that's what they drink, isn't it? Never water?
Mandrake: Well, I-I believe that's what they drink, Jack, yes.
Ripper: On no account will a Commie ever drink water, and not without good reason.
Mandrake: Oh, eh, yes. I, uhm, can't quite see what you're getting at, Jack.
Ripper: Water, that's what I'm getting at, water. Mandrake, water is the source of all life. Seven-tenths of this earth's surface is water. Why, do you realize that seventy percent of you is water?
Mandrake: Uh, uh, Good Lord!
Ripper: And as human beings, you and I need fresh, pure water to replenish our precious bodily fluids.
Mandrake: Yes. (he begins to chuckle nervously)
Ripper: Are you beginning to understand?
Mandrake: Yes. (more laughter)
Ripper: Mandrake. Mandrake, have you never wondered why I drink only distilled water, or rain water, and only pure-grain alcohol?
Mandrake: Well, it did occur to me, Jack, yes.
Ripper: Have you ever heard of a thing called fluoridation. Fluoridation of water?
Mandrake: Uh? Yes, I-I have heard of that, Jack, yes. Yes.
Ripper: Well, do you know what it is?
Mandrake: No, no I don't know what it is, no.
Ripper: Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face?
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Doesn't rainwater have all kinds of junk in it?
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Originally posted by Mr Big
Doesn't rainwater have all kinds of junk in it?
Dosnt it form around dust particles?
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Rainwater is pure from mother nature herself. You couldn't get better water from the streams at the top of the rockies!
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Originally posted by nirvana
Rainwater is pure from mother nature herself. You couldn't get better water from the streams at the top of the rockies!
That's not true. Rainwater can contain polutants and can soak up things that are in the atmosphere.
Water in streams can be very clean becase they are filtered naturally.
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Google is my friend...
Rain
For raindrops to form there must be particulate matter in the air, such as dust or salt, at temperatures above freezing. These particles are called condensation nuclei. When the nuclei are cooled to temperatures below the freezing point, water condenses around them in layers. The particles become so heavy they resist updrafts and fall through the clouds. If the updrafts are particularly strong, as in a thunderstorm, the rain nuclei may become very large and fall from the cloud as hail. When the air temperature is at or below freezing all the way to the ground, the precipitation falls as snow.
Source (http://www.britannica.com/ebi/article-207168)
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Originally posted by nirvana
Rainwater is pure from mother nature herself. You couldn't get better water from the streams at the top of the rockies!
Never heard of acid rain have you.
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Whitehawk, whatever you do, don't let them mess with your precious bodily fluids. Deny them even to women who will try to deprive you of the essence that your body contains...... :O :noid :noid :noid :noid :noid
Watch out for black helicopters as well. :noid
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In beer there is joy.
In wine there is wisdom.
In water there is bacteria.
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With the introduction of flouride, the general population indeed got better teeth, & an increase in the cancer rates.
There is no one thing you can say, "Hey that is why we have so many cases of cancer today!"
Modern living causes cancer.
But so did something else earlier in earths history, they called it consumption back in the frontier days & I'm sure it was called something else before that.
I agree putting flouride in water is dumb though.
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Originally posted by Brenjen
With the introduction of flouride, the general population indeed got better teeth, & an increase in the cancer rates.
There is no one thing you can say, "Hey that is why we have so many cases of cancer today!"
Modern living causes cancer.
But so did something else earlier in earths history, they called it consumption back in the frontier days & I'm sure it was called something else before that.
I agree putting flouride in water is dumb though.
Consumption is another word for tuberculosis. Not related to flouride at all.
FWIW since people started living longer the death rate from cancer has gone up. Therefore living causes cancer. To avoid cancer you should die young. :O
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POE
EOP
EPO
PEO
OPE
OEP
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Consumption is another word for tuberculosis. Not related to flouride at all.
Never said it was, it was used to identify T.B & cancer as well.
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Originally posted by Brenjen
Modern living causes cancer.
Wait'll Phillip Morris finds this out. Maybe they can reverse a few court rulings.
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What's worse, acid in your water or fluoride?
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Wait'll Phillip Morris finds this out. Maybe they can reverse a few court rulings.
They should reverse some of those rulings IMO the settlements were way too large. People know smoking is bad for them & if they don't they need to die before they polute the gene pool.
Nothing against smokers, I smoked for years myself, but I knew & accepted the risks, just like everyone else has for decades. But lucky for me I smoked Camel non-filters & Bugler more than anything & they would go out when you sat them in an ash tray....mmmm Camels.:p
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Originally posted by nirvana
What's worse, acid in your water or fluoride?
Orange juice (or any citrus juice), cola and probably 48 other soft drinks, coffee.... all are acid in water.
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Ghah...
I decide to chill and hunker down on a Friday night, and the most active and compelling thread turns out to be about..... flouride?
Flouride?
Wtf.... ya put it on yer toothbrush, ya swirl the stuff around and spit.
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Originally posted by Nash
Ghah...
I decide to chill and hunker down on a Friday night, and the most active and compelling thread turns out to be about..... flouride?
Flouride?
Wtf.... ya put it on yer toothbrush, ya swirl the stuff around and spit.
That's all well and good if it weren't added to the municipal drinking water, but it is & has been for years & years.
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Father Jack was right.
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Originally posted by Brenjen
That's all well and good if it weren't added to the municipal drinking water, but it is & has been for years & years.
All I know (or care) about that is....
I was like, 3 years old when they started adding the stuff to the drinking water where I lived. I moved to a different area when I was about 12, went for a check-up, and the dentist gave me a clean bill of health, adding; " You're from New West, right?".
"Yeah." I said.
"I can tell." he said.
Other than that, I haven't died from flouride or anything yet, the water tastes just dandy to me, and the word "Flouride" (or however it's spelled) is printed on all the teeth-related products that I buy.
I also remember hearing around that time..... during the cold war such that it was..... various memes on the Russians planning to poison our water supply.
Fast forward a coupla decades and we've got this very post here:
"Foriegn companies are scooping up and privitizing US water companies by the droves. Their dirty little paws on the flow control nozzle for the fluoride injector."
"Their dirty little paws on the flow control nozzle for the fluoride injector."
I swear to god, I am going to try and work that into an everyday run of the mill conversation, just to see the response.
"How's about the fluctuating oil prices?" someone will ask.
"Nevermind that," I'll say, "They've got their dirty little paws on the flow control nozzle for the fluoride injector!!"
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Originally posted by Nash
All I know (or care) about that is....
I was like, 3 years old when they started adding the stuff to the drinking water where I lived. I moved to a different area when I was about 12, went for a check-up, and the dentist gave me a clean bill of health, adding; " You're from New West, right?".
"Yeah." I said.
"I can tell." he said.
Other than that, I haven't died from flouride or anything yet, the water tastes just dandy to me, and the word "Flouride" (or however it's spelled) is printed on all the teeth-related products that I buy.
I also remember hearing around that time..... during the cold war such that it was..... various memes on the Russians planning to poison our water supply.
Fast forward a coupla decades and we've got this very post here:
"Foriegn companies are scooping up and privitizing US water companies by the droves. Their dirty little paws on the flow control nozzle for the fluoride injector."
"Their dirty little paws on the flow control nozzle for the fluoride injector."
I swear to god, I am going to try and work that into an everyday run of the mill conversation, just to see the response.
"How's about the fluctuating oil prices?" someone will ask.
"Nevermind that," I'll say, "They've got their dirty little paws on the flow control nozzle for the fluoride injector!!"
So, you like it when your government decides what's in your water (for your own good), but you can't stand it when our government decides that someone doesn't need to knock when entering an Americans house with warrant? :lol
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POE
OEP
EPO
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Just what ailment is it that Flouride causes again?
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Originally posted by Mini D
Just what ailment is it that Flouride causes again?
More to the point. What's so amazing about Flouride that inspired the government to lace the water with it?
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Egad! General Jack Ripper was Right!
"I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion, and the International Communist Conspiracy to sap and impurify all our precious bodily fluids."
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Originally posted by Nash
All I know (or care) about that is....
I was like, 3 years old when they started adding the stuff to the drinking water where I lived. I moved to a different area when I was about 12, went for a check-up, and the dentist gave me a clean bill of health, adding; " You're from New West, right?".
"Yeah." I said.
"I can tell." he said.
Other than that, I haven't died from flouride or anything yet, the water tastes just dandy to me, and the word "Flouride" (or however it's spelled) is printed on all the teeth-related products that I buy.
I also remember hearing around that time..... during the cold war such that it was..... various memes on the Russians planning to poison our water supply.
Fast forward a coupla decades and we've got this very post here:
"Foriegn companies are scooping up and privitizing US water companies by the droves. Their dirty little paws on the flow control nozzle for the fluoride injector."
"Their dirty little paws on the flow control nozzle for the fluoride injector."
I swear to god, I am going to try and work that into an everyday run of the mill conversation, just to see the response.
"How's about the fluctuating oil prices?" someone will ask.
"Nevermind that," I'll say, "They've got their dirty little paws on the flow control nozzle for the fluoride injector!!"
:rofl Do you babble like that often?
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All the freakin' time. :)
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Originally posted by Mr Big
More to the point. What's so amazing about Flouride that inspired the government to lace the water with it?
Two words, dentist and cavities. Make the connection.........:p
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Originally posted by Mini D
Just what ailment is it that Flouride causes again?
paranoia & fear of cleaning your lenes...no, i'm sorry, thats flourite
Originally posted by Flouride
Chose one:
a) pwnd
b) all your base...
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flouride is responsible for the grand ol' opry's demise.
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Originally posted by Maverick
Whitehawk, whatever you do, don't let them mess with your precious bodily fluids. Deny them even to women who will try to deprive you of the essence that your body contains...... :O :noid :noid :noid :noid :noid
Watch out for black helicopters as well. :noid
I drink bottled water, you keep on truckin bro...:D . We'll all be happy.
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Originally posted by Mini D
Just what ailment is it that Flouride causes again?
The same ailment that rat poison causes rats, only it takes a bit longer at 1ppm for humans to feel the effects. The question is...Why do we NEED to drink fluoride when a simple wash and spit would do the same thing?
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Originally posted by nirvana
Rainwater is pure from mother nature herself. You couldn't get better water from the streams at the top of the rockies!
Actualy, you would get the best water from the streams at the bottom of the Rockies. :)
As long as it is not blasphemised and turned into Coors.
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If you feel so strongly about the flouride in your water, put down your glass and pick up a pen and some paper.
March around your area gathering signatures on a petition that can be submitted to the local government and if you get enough support the question will appear on a ballot that everyone can vote on.
If enough people agree with you that they don't want flouride in the water then the government will have to submit to the peoples wishes and remove the flouride.
Good luck in November.
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Originally posted by Blooz
If you feel so strongly about the flouride in your water, put down your glass and pick up a pen and some paper.
March around your area gathering signatures on a petition that can be submitted to the local government and if you get enough support the question will appear on a ballot that everyone can vote on.
If enough people agree with you that they don't want flouride in the water then the government will have to submit to the peoples wishes and remove the flouride.
Good luck in November.
Blloz, this is america. The good ole USA. If fluoride was so good for us, a group of people should have marched around with a pen and paper getting signatures to put it in the drinking water because, as it stands now, it is a violation of federal laws to force feed citizens of the USA any thing, especially toxic chemicals
without written consent and a popular vote. Fluoride injection into water supplies is illegal wothout a popular vote. There has never been a vote to ADD fluoride into water, only votes to remove it. I think san diego has said no to fluoride, but someone of the area may be able to correct me on this. The point is, a fluoride rinse can and is made that has the same effect as fluoridated drinking water. It would be nice if we had the CHOICE to use fluoride or not. Putting it into the drinking water is ummm, insane.
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Whitehawk, if you think flouridation is bad, what's your opinion on DHMO?
http://www.dhmo.org/
What are some of the dangers associated with DHMO?
Each year, Dihydrogen Monoxide is a known causative component in many thousands of deaths and is a major contributor to millions upon millions of dollars in damage to property and the environment. Some of the known perils of Dihydrogen Monoxide are:
* Death due to accidental inhalation of DHMO, even in small quantities.
* Prolonged exposure to solid DHMO causes severe tissue damage.
* Excessive ingestion produces a number of unpleasant though not typically life-threatening side-effects.
* DHMO is a major component of acid rain.
* Gaseous DHMO can cause severe burns.
* Contributes to soil erosion.
* Leads to corrosion and oxidation of many metals.
* Contamination of electrical systems often causes short-circuits.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Whitehawk, if you think flouridation is bad, what's your opinion on DHMO?
http://www.dhmo.org/
:rofl
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It's no different than the federal government injecting children with radioactive isotopes instead of flu vaccine at the county health clinics.
There was no popular vote agreeing to that, or to release a cloud of radioactive gas in Washington state I believe it was, just to track how far it would drift & how bad the contamination would be.
Not everything in this country is subject to a popular vote, even the presidential vote is diluted, if not downright negated by the electoral college.
How about shooting students at Kent State? Or the Branch Davidians in Waco? Or the use of federal troops against rioters in California? Posse comitatus was voted on & it gets walked on all the time.
The government shouldn't do a lot of the things it does, but they do it & we have to accept it or change it, unfortunately, changing it would require armed force; a pen & paper just ain't gonna do it.;)
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LOL! you guys need to get past the hype.
Floride is the best line of defense against tooth decay. That's why it's in the water. I've heard my Dentist say the exact same thing as Nash's. Maybe the ADA is behind this whole conspiracy?
The babble is coming from the conspiracy theorists. Water itself is a toxin. If you don't believe me, drink 3 gallons of it. Chlorine is a toxin. Virtually everything is a toxin in sufficient quantities. Take the time to learn exactly what it does/doesn't do before going on the rants. Right now you guys look simply uneducated.
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Originally posted by Mini D
LOL! you guys need to get past the hype.
Floride is the best line of defense against tooth decay. That's why it's in the water. I've heard my Dentist say the exact same thing as Nash's. Maybe the ADA is behind this whole conspiracy?
The babble is coming from the conspiracy theorists. Water itself is a toxin. If you don't believe me, drink 3 gallons of it. Chlorine is a toxin. Virtually everything is a toxin in sufficient quantities. Take the time to learn exactly what it does/doesn't do before going on the rants. Right now you guys look simply uneducated.
I just don't understand why it has to be injected into our water.
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Because there is no downside to it... Only an upside?
That would be my guess.
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Originally posted by Mini D
Because there is no downside to it... Only an upside?
That would be my guess.
Why don't we put vitamin C in the water?
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I imagine that's because there isn't a readily available way to do it. And, to be honest, vitamins are more debatable in regards to health issues than flouride.
But then... water everywhere is laced with something... usually minerals. You're drinking calcites, limes (especially in arid areas) and whatever else. Look up the impacts of those some day. Or, if you're in a wet area, study the levels of bacteria and algea in the water.
I do find the whole flouride debate funny.
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Perhaps because the vitamin has an expiration and would be therapeutic only in higher quantities.
Don't forget 2 other extremely toxic deadly chemicals we use every day. Sodium and chlorine. They each will produce death and are very very nasty even in small quantities. Chlorine is even "injected" into the water in many places!! If you met with either of these substances you would not like the results. Yet combined they are more than benign, they are required for life.
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why isn't beer rented? it seems to me beer spends much more time the flouride ridden water supply than it actually spends being "beer" we shouldn't have to purchase it, it just doesn't seem right.
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Originally posted by Mini D
I imagine that's because there isn't a readily available way to do it. And, to be honest, vitamins are more debatable in regards to health issues than flouride.
But then... water everywhere is laced with something... usually minerals. You're drinking calcites, limes (especially in arid areas) and whatever else. Look up the impacts of those some day. Or, if you're in a wet area, study the levels of bacteria and algea in the water.
I do find the whole flouride debate funny.
The only thing about the flouride laced water that I find funny is the motivation for doing it.
The government cares about our teeth?
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Why not put it in the water? Because you don't want it there? Just, exactly, what chemicals do you want in the water?
There's no downside to it. Not a single person has come up with a real reason NOT to put it in the water. The only "reasons" provided are based purely on hype and show a complete lack of understanding of chemistry, components and general health impacts.
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Originally posted by Mini D
Why not put it in the water? Because you don't want it there? Just, exactly, what chemicals do you want in the water?
There's no downside to it. Not a single person has come up with a real reason NOT to put it in the water. The only "reasons" provided are based purely on hype and show a complete lack of understanding of chemistry, components and general health impacts.
Buy WHY put it in the water? What's the reason?
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Because Mr Dentist, you know the guy that drills in your mouth, WANTS it there. So there.
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To fight tooth decay nuke. It's been said a million times, and will be said a million more.
You still can't come up with a reason not to put it in there and simply insinuate there's some alterior motive.
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Originally posted by Mini D
LOL! you guys need to get past the hype.
Floride is the best line of defense against tooth decay. That's why it's in the water. I've heard my Dentist say the exact same thing as Nash's. Maybe the ADA is behind this whole conspiracy?
The babble is coming from the conspiracy theorists. Water itself is a toxin. If you don't believe me, drink 3 gallons of it. Chlorine is a toxin. Virtually everything is a toxin in sufficient quantities. Take the time to learn exactly what it does/doesn't do before going on the rants. Right now you guys look simply uneducated.
Then educate us mini d. Why do we need to drink fluoridated water?
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Originally posted by Maverick
Because Mr Dentist, you know the guy that drills in your mouth, WANTS it there. So there.
And who is the guy who wants it in our bloodstream and therefore our brains?
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Originally posted by Mini D
To fight tooth decay nuke. It's been said a million times, and will be said a million more.
You still can't come up with a reason not to put it in there and simply insinuate there's some alterior motive.
, because the occurance of bone cancer in children in areas that use fluoridated water is 3.5 times higher than areas that dont. Ther is no significant difference in dental caries (cavities) in areas that use fluoridated water and areas that dont. The scientist who conducted the study used naturally occuring fluoride in his tests not lead and aluminum contaminated toxic waste from a plant. For those of you who are reading this wondering, DONT LET YOUR KIDS DRINK FLUORIDEATED WATER, use fluoirde toothpaste, if you must. How terrible it would be to come out in 10 years that we are all cancer riddled due to this rediculous lunacy. THERE IS NO REASON TO DRINK IT. IT ONLY NEED BE PUT ON TEETH.
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If you care so much then write to your congressmen. Im sure they care....
The black vans are on the way...:noid
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Obviously you shouldn't ingest chemicals just because. I don't like chlorine or chlorimines in my water anymore than Flouride.
The arguements in favor of adding chemicals to food & water are not addressing the potential negative impacts on health only the one single positive we know of that is provided by flouride.
When my sister did her nursing thesis, one of the other students did theirs on MRI scans. The basis of her thesis is that MRI's (magentic resonance imaging) could in theory, be detrimental to ones health.
She postulated that because the MRI rips apart the magnetic bonds of the cells in the body & then slams them back together to form the image, that one day the first person scanned with the MRI technology would just fall apart on the sub atomic level; basically just turn into a powdered sugar like substance & fall into a pile on the floor.
She got an A+ & the professor agreed that no one knows the long term effects of anything until there has been long term exposure. We know the long term effects of flouride on the body, in small doses it should be negligible, but that is what they said about silver mercury fillings & someone tested the saliva in the throat of a person who had them & they had several times higher than normal mercury readings & mercury is not good for you.
They said the preservatives in our food was fine & would not hurt us...think again. Back in the B.C. days in the Gobi desert they found mummified bodies that had undergone lung removal to rinse out the soot from cooking fires & the dust from the desert; that foriegn material was causing lung disease. The less unnecessary substances we ingest the better & that's a fact.
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Originally posted by WhiteHawk
, because the occurance of bone cancer in children in areas that use fluoridated water is 3.5 times higher than areas that dont. Ther is no significant difference in dental caries (cavities) in areas that use fluoridated water and areas that dont. The scientist who conducted the study used naturally occuring fluoride in his tests not lead and aluminum contaminated toxic waste from a plant. For those of you who are reading this wondering, DONT LET YOUR KIDS DRINK FLUORIDEATED WATER, use fluoirde toothpaste, if you must. How terrible it would be to come out in 10 years that we are all cancer riddled due to this rediculous lunacy. THERE IS NO REASON TO DRINK IT. IT ONLY NEED BE PUT ON TEETH.
Wow... just wow.
Do you have any idea how much monitoring for lead and aluminum in any factory's waste there is? I don' think you do. No, that's not correct. I know you don't.
The "if there's flouride, then there's aluminum and lead" argument is perhaps the stupidest presented in this thread.
And Brenjin, it's not "just because". That has been pointed out one million and one times now.
As far as "naturally occuring" flouride... hehehe... that's a fun one. I do like the disclaimer. You do realize that there isn't really much "naturally occuring" flouride? That it's usually bound to something in it's "natural" state? To be honest, a factory that releases flouride back into the water is releasing pure flouride, not "naturally occuring" flouride. I'd be reluctant to drink anything with heavy concentrations of "naturally occuring" chemicals in it. That translates to "poor water quality" in general.
I'd be willing to bet that studies cited found other "natural occuring" chemicals and minerals too. But when you're going for a grant... you have to have a source of panic.
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And Brenjin, it's not "just because". That has been pointed out one million and one times now.
Yes it is. My toothpaste & my mouthwash have flouride in it & my dentist gives me a flouride rinse after every cleaning. It's added to the water, "just because";)
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It's embarrassing - I find myself 100% in agreement with MiniD. :o
I remember having to cover this fluoride thing for Biology O Level at school. Fluoride was added to the water that came into my house, but only at 1ppm (part per million). At that concentration it is completely harmless. At 3ppm, according to my school studies, some mottling occurs to children's teeth.
Why put fluoride in the water? Like MiniD says - to fight tooth decay. Frequent visitors to this board will have noticed the dental "jokes" and other jibes directed at the Brits. And amongst the children of working class families in the 1960s and earlier, there were indeed problems, not least because many houses of poor people did not have bathrooms, and there was no ready supply of running water, so kids born into these familes tended not to brush their teeth. I know, because I was at school with some of them in the 1960s. In my view, it is these children who were the main beneficiaries of fluoridation of the water supply.
In the post war years, the government strove to improve the nation's health - school milk was provided, essential for teeth and bones. Of course, the neocon freedom of choice radicals will be along to say that "children should have the freedom to choose whether or not to have rotten teeth". To which I say - Don't talk bollocks. :rolleyes:
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no running water in homes in england in the latter half of the 20th century?
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Originally posted by storch
no running water in homes in england in the latter half of the 20th century?
Storch - my school was in a street called Mellor St. The school was down one side and there was a row of Victorian terraced houses down the other side. I knew someone who lived in one of these Mellor St. houses. There were 3 bedrooms but no bathroom and no inside toilet. There was ONE tap (faucet) in the entire house - a cold tap over the kitchen sink - that was IT. Some of these folks would go to public baths to get clean, others would have a tin bath which hung up outside when not in use, and this would be brought in and placed in front of the fire. Water heated in kettles over the fire would be poured into the bath - you got in, did your thing and then bailed the water out... As for the toilet - there would be ONE outside toilet shared between two houses. This was in the mid 1960s. Check out a movie called "East is East" - it's about an Anglo-Pakistani family living in Manchester c1971 - the scant plumbing shown in that movie (with overnight piss buckets in the bedrooms, and one outside toilet) is how it was for many poor families back then.
I was fortunate enough to have been born into a relatively privileged family, with heat, hot and cold running water, and an inside toilet. Our outside toilet would freeze up in winter! Burst pipes were commonplace. Oh what memories...
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My - My, you Brits had it rough. My dad was living in an army surplus tent & burning coal they picked up off the train tracks for heat & cooking when he was a kid. They had to bring water in from a filthy brown river in buckets, the river at that time had a rendering plant upriver a few miles so even after boiling the water it still stunk.
It's tough on the poor everywhere; we are truly one people.
At that concentration it is completely harmless.
....
......or so they believe, how many times have you seen one study contradict another? It's long term exposure & use that will tell the tale & even then the responsible parties may not discover the true facts for several decades or more.
I saw a study the other day about rats living in sewers & on farms having better immune systems than lab rats & the links they were making to athsma & allergies. The headline on the article was "Clean living leads to sick children" & it's only a theory at this stage & not proven. (I agree with the theory btw) I find this seems to happen a lot in modern societies, the "I'm smarter than you so don't question my opinions" attitude. Sad really.
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I don't drink water. Fish have sex in that stuff and drinking that is just plain nasty.
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I remember reading somewhere about a year ago that they noticed that since this moronic bottled water craze became popular there has been a noticed rise in tooth decay.
::Shrugs::
Silly arguement really.
Causes cancer? Bah!
In my almost 45 years I have drawn several conclusions.
One of which is that I noticed that if you study anything long enough you will find it either causes cancer or is no good for you.
I personally dont worry about the water.
I keep bottled water in the house cause that what my daugher prefers to take to school with her for lunch as opposed to a juice drink.
And If I hapen to run out I take one of her old bottles, Rince it out and fill it with watrer from my UNFILTERED Tap.
Im not worried about drinking unfiltered tap water or water from a garden hose.
Im not worried if there is, or isnt floride in my tap water.
Of the water I do buy. I dont go out of my way for a specific brand
of this so called "spring Water" Or other specialty water where the only real difference between that water and the water comming out of my faucet.....
IS THE FRIGGEN FAUCET IT CAME OUT OF!
And I sure as watermelon dont partake in this recent braindead habit and go carrying around a bottle of store bought water whereever I go. Like I was trekking across the Sahara and it might be days before we reach the next flipping Oasis
Its water people. get over it. Floride added or not. Unless your water supply has been contaminated by some factory dumping chemicals into the ground for years and years. OR you live in an area like say...Florida, where the water itself is fine. it just tastes and smells like rotten eggs.
And unless you live in a very remote rural area.
Your probably more at risk from breathing the polluted air. Then drinking unfiltered water out of your tap.
You've been duped people. The corperations have pulled the wool over your eyes in a very major way.
And this craze all started with Perriere and then other imported water.
And think about it. When you go to another country what is the first thing they tell you? DONT DRINK THE WATER.
Me personally. I try not to drink too much water though.
Fish pee in it;)
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LOL @ Dred...I don't get into the bottled water either, it's a scam. But drinking water out of a garden hose? That's just nasty! Take the hose off & cup your hand under the spicot at least bro :D
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Originally posted by Brenjen
LOL @ Dred...I don't get into the bottled water either, it's a scam. But drinking water out of a garden hose? That's just nasty! Take the hose off & cup your hand under the spicot at least bro :D
Whats nasty about it?
Turn the water on. let it run for a minute to get all the warm water out that has been sitting in the house in the sun.
Once the water runs cool. Drink it.
I notice no difference in the taste.
And what am I gonna get? maybe some bacteria?
My son just pointed out something to me. He was at a friends house and drank a glass of tap water and he said "you drink water right out of the tap??"
He and his family only drink filtered or bottled water.
His family is forever sick with something.
Worse thing that usually goes around our household is the common cold and then maybe only once or twice a year
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I can taste the hose even if it runs. We fill up our rubbermaid water coolers in the mornings before we go out into the field & you can really taste it when the grunt didn't take the hose off, even if they let it run.
Be glad you have the luxury of drinking straight from the hose & not being able to taste it.
Also, about filtered tap water; let's not forget each cities water treatment is not equal. You wouldn't drink my city water once you looked at it in a glass LOL You can see particles that look like little bits of paper & it's usually brown. But I have been to cities that had excellent city water. Where my aunt lives in Kentucky the city has a well & that water is clear & smells good...like water instead of chemicals.
I don't turn my nose up at the fact it's recycled sewage in my town but, I do use a counter-top Brita filter for drinking because I know they don't do a good job at the treatment facility & the chlorine or chloramine smell is so strong it'll burn your eyes sometimes.
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Don't drink water cause fish f in it.
:D
Bronk
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Beetle says....
I remember having to cover this fluoride thing for Biology O Level at school. Fluoride was added to the water that came into my house, but only at 1ppm (part per million). At that concentration it is completely harmless. At 3ppm, according to my school studies, some mottling occurs to children's teeth.
A recent study published in the journal Brain Research found that 1 PPM fluoride in water facilitated the uptake of aluminum into the brain of rats, producing the type of brain tangles (amyloid deposits) that are associated with Alzheimers disease and other types of dementia. (27) An epidemiological study published in the December 2000 issue of the journal Neurotoxicology, found that fluoridated water was associated with elevated levels of lead in children's blood. (28) The study's findings parallel the findings of an earlier study published in the September 1999 issue of the International Journal of Environmental Studies. (29) Lead in the blood is associated with a variety of neurological problems, including reduced intelligence, aggression and hyperactivity. Dozens of laboratory studies have found that fluoride is a mutagen - a classification which frequently indicates that a substance is carcinogenic (i.e. that it causes cancer). (30) A cancer bioassay conducted by the National Toxicology Program found that rats dosed with fluoride had a statistically significant increase in bone tumors (osteosarcomas), which were not found among the controls.
If you dont mind, i'll go ahead and assume that these people know more about it than me or you and take the 4 dollar a week hit for a case of aquafina, just in case.
Like I said before, I can come up many good reasons not to put fluoride in water meant for drinking. Like mrbig said, since when is the govt concerned with your dental health. The govt forces the elderly to pay out the ying yang for thier meds so they may live, but they are gonna give us this 'freebie' for a shiny smile. Bulls Hit. Dont let your kids or grandkids drink that crap.
Some mottling occurs in the brain also, beetle.
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Nah, they've got religion for that. :D
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Yup.
See how you rolled over Whitehawk?
That's why you've still got flouride in your tap water.
Governments count on people like you to sit there and do nothing.
Gumble, grumble , grumble.
Roll out the 'scientific research materials' proving that this , that and the other thing is destroying people , places or things.
Then do nothing.
Uh huh.
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AND he buys their bottled water, Blooz:aok
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It's odd watching people flip flop between this and the global warming thread. The exact same arguments, panic and misconceptions running in both, only reversed.
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Originally posted by Mini D
It's odd watching people flip flop between this and the global warming thread. The exact same arguments, panic and misconceptions running in both, only reversed.
I know what you're gettin' at. And I don't know why I'm even bothering to say anything, but...
As far as I'm concerned? My position is pretty consistent. There's no panic. I'm no scientist... I have no idea how they do what they do. So when they say it's okay to put flouride in the water, and nobody dies, I'm down with it. And when they say we've got some kind of environment problem brewing, who the hell am I to second guess them?
No scientist could do what I do, and visa versa; I'll leave the science to the scientists. Makes at least a certain amount of sense, right?
It's almost a no-brainer that if civilization left science up to spectators like WhiteHawk and Brenjen, most of us probably wouldn't even be alive today.
So... no... I have absolutely no basis to question them on the flouride issue... and I'd be kidding myself if I pretended to be some kind of expert on the environment.
Do we even have any bonafide scientists here on this BBS?
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Originally posted by Mini D
To fight tooth decay nuke. It's been said a million times, and will be said a million more.
You still can't come up with a reason not to put it in there and simply insinuate there's some alterior motive.
I'm not saying that there is an alterior motive.
I'm thinking more along the lines of:
Who makes the decision to put something like flouride in the water and where does it end?
To fight tooth decay? Sounds good. How about to fight other things as well. Sounds like the water supply is a great way to administer medicine from the state, in certain situations.
And *thats* the answer to your "why not put it there" question.
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It's almost a no-brainer that if civilization left science up to spectators like WhiteHawk and Brenjen, most of us probably wouldn't even be alive today.
You surely wouldn't be alive if your life was in my hands.
What did you mean by that anyway, just for clarification purposes.
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lolorz!
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Originally posted by nirvana
Rainwater is pure from mother nature herself. You couldn't get better water from the streams at the top of the rockies!
Rain acctually cleans the air, like dirt, pollen,pollution, anything that is in the air. Thats why it always smells fresh after a down pour, so in actuallity its not clean water. But it will not hurt you, unless its acid rain of course.
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Originally posted by Mr Big
I'm not saying that there is an alterior motive.
I'm thinking more along the lines of:
Who makes the decision to put something like flouride in the water and where does it end?
To fight tooth decay? Sounds good. How about to fight other things as well. Sounds like the water supply is a great way to administer medicine from the state, in certain situations.
And *thats* the answer to your "why not put it there" question.
That would apply to anything put in the water. You seem to think Flouride is different then any other "additive". I disagree.
As for what else government might put in the water... well... I think you've seen just what else they'd put in it.
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Originally posted by Mini D
That would apply to anything put in the water. You seem to think Flouride is different then any other "additive". I disagree.
As for what else government might put in the water... well... I think you've seen just what else they'd put in it.
It is different. The only reason it's added is to fight tooth decay. The motive is different.
Ather things that are added are added in order to make the water safe to drink, not to treat ailments that have nothing to do with drinking water.
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i thinks it is naiive to think that the same .gov that wants up to live on an all high fructose corn syrup diet is concerned about our teeth
:noid :noid :noid :noid :noid :noid :furious :cry :cry :t
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Originally posted by Brenjen
My - My, you Brits had it rough. My dad was living in an army surplus tent & burning coal they picked up off the train tracks for heat & cooking when he was a kid. They had to bring water in from a filthy brown river in buckets, the river at that time had a rendering plant upriver a few miles so even after boiling the water it still stunk.
Luxury! Our family once lived in a shoe box in t'middle o t'road, had a handful of gravel fut t'breakfast, go t'work for 25 hours, and when we came home, father would cut us in t'two w' t'breadknife!
LOL - some of you will know what I'm talking about. For the rest, there's this (http://www.phespirit.info/montypython/four_yorkshiremen.htm).
Actually, I don't believe the scaremongering stories about the concomitant side effects of water fluoridation. Fluoride has been present in the British water supply since the 1960s, and I don't know of anyone whose demise can be linked to it. I have no objection to it, and have always used a fluoride toothpaste. No-one in my family has ever died of Alzheimer's.
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Originally posted by Blooz
Yup.
See how you rolled over Whitehawk?
That's why you've still got flouride in your tap water.
Governments count on people like you to sit there and do nothing.
Gumble, grumble , grumble.
Roll out the 'scientific research materials' proving that this , that and the other thing is destroying people , places or things.
Then do nothing.
Uh huh.
I didnt roll out those scientific materials. I cut and paste them. The govt got those results and sat there and did nothing. I'll find some more. Probably just conspiracy whackos attacking a wholesome nutritious vitamin like fluoride, but hey, thats the beuaty of free speech. You can rattle around the info and either shoot wholes in it with logical argument techniques or find it raises good questions. But most just ridicule the messenger. The messenger is crazy, therefore the message is crazy. Thats the sheep method.
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The ADA statement (above) states that fluoride is an important trace element in human nutrition, like zinc and iron, even though the FDA states that fluoride is a drug, not a mineral nutrient. It is not necessary to get a prescription from your doctor to obtain zinc or iron. Any chemist will verify that fluoride is extremely toxic, more so than lead and almost as toxic as arsenic. Now the maximum contaminant level (MCL) for lead is 0.015 ppm, and the MCL for arsenic was recently lowered to 10 ppb (parts per billion), with a goal of 0.0 ppm for both of them. Why wouldn't .07 to 1.2 ppm (parts per million ) of fluoride be harmful, and why would the ADA compare fluoride with "salt, iron, vitamins A and D, chlorine, oxygen and even water itself?"
3) How much is too much?
As little as 0.04 mg/kg of body weight per day has been proven to cause adverse health effects. Retention of 2 mg a day will produce crippling skeletal fluorosis in one's lifetime.
4) Does fluoride accumulate in the body?
Yes. Approximately half of each day's fluoride intake will be retained. This is what makes it so dangerous. "The dose makes the poison." All sides agree to the fact that healthy kidneys can eliminate only about 50% of daily fluoride intake. The rest gets stored in calcified tissues, like bones and teeth.
The National Academy Of Sciences (NAS) stated in 1977 that, for the average individual, a retention of 2 mg/day would result in crippling skeletal fluorosis after 40 years. Considering the above mentioned intake level, it is likely that skeletal fluorosis already affects many millions of people in the United States.
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::Sigh::
Beleive it or not there was once a time when the government did care about the health and welfare of the people.
The floride is fine.
As I stated earlier.
Study anything long enough and you will find out its no good for you.
Typically the problem is with exess.
Too much of ANYTHING is no good for you..Including WATER
http://www.ift.org/cms/?pid=1001309 (http://www.ift.org/cms/?pid=1001309)
And typically studies done with rats and other animals are done with larger doses of whatever it is they are trying to study so as they can simulate long term effects
Also like I said before.
Your probably atr greater risk simply breathing the air then drinking the water.
But there always have to be the paranoids out there.
Kinda makes you wonder why they arent afraid to get out of bed in the morning. What with all the dangerous things out there and all
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
::Sigh::
Beleive it or not there was once a time when the government did care about the health and welfare of the people.
The floride is fine.
As I stated earlier.
Study anything long enough and you will find out its no good for you.
Typically the problem is with exess.
Too much of ANYTHING is no good for you..Including WATER
And typically studies done with rats and other animals are done with larger doses of whatever it is they are trying to study so as they can simulate long term effects
Also like I said before.
Your probably atr greater risk simply breathing the air then drinking the water.
But there always have to be the paranoids out there.
Kinda makes you wonder why they arent afraid to get out of bed in the morning. What with all the dangerous things out there and all
There is a difference in acceptable and neccesary risks, like driving on the highway and breathing the air, and having understudied FDA classified drugs put in the water without properly educating the public and going throguh the proper channels to make it legal. What makes me so mad about this is the fact that there is enough fluoirde in a tube of toothpaste to KILL a child. Some toothpastes are marketed for children and therefore tastes and looks like candy. This is insane, IMO.
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Originally posted by WhiteHawk
There is a difference in acceptable and neccesary risks, like driving on the highway and breathing the air, and having understudied FDA classified drugs put in the water without properly educating the public and going throguh the proper channels to make it legal. What makes me so mad about this is the fact that there is enough fluoirde in a tube of toothpaste to KILL a child. Some toothpastes are marketed for children and therefore tastes and looks like candy. This is insane, IMO.
:noid
Soooo. Dont buy your kids toothpaste thast tastes like candy if your that worried about it.
Or, you can. But teach your kids its for brushing your teeth. Not eating like candy.
the Flavored toothpaste is to try to get kids to brush their teeth more often
And how many children have you heard about that died from toothpaste lately?
the number is so rediculously small that it makes it an acceptable risk.
I am curious though. Which TV show did you see allthis on that suddenly perked your concern over all this?
That is what usually starts off these bouts of paranoia.
Our own homegrown brand of terrorists AKA ABC, NBC,CBS,FOX,CNN WKRP in Cincinati etc etc finding new and improved ways to play on our fears to get us to watch
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So what happened to convinc eht egovt that healthy teeth is good for the mass population? Obvious answer: a healthy population. But why inject a 'arguably' dangerous classified toxic drug into the water supply and not calcium? Calcium is far more benificial to the bones and teeth than fluoiride? How about vitamin C? How about potassium? And insteaad of giving us a free ride on the vitamin a and d to prevent rickets, we have to pay for it in our milk? No, I think fluoride is a stand alone here. If its job is to prevent tooth decay then why do we have to drink it? Why would they put it in a vehicle that goes right down the drain? You see the basic questions that make this a conspiracy theroy go unanswered. Is injecting fluoride into our water supply the BEST and SAFEST way to promote healthy teeth? ITs obvious and proven that fluoride is NOT NECESSARY for healthy teeth. Millions go on without it. They cant even find a difference in the communities that have fluoride and those that do not as far as tooth decay. They do not even bother to check for a relationship between fluoiride and alzhiemers, add, bone cancer, and a host of other diseases. These studies are left to the public health groups who are then vilified as conspiracy whackos.
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You still never answered the question.
What TV show did you watch this on that set off this most recent bout of paranoia?:)
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
:noid
And how many children have you heard about that died from toothpaste lately?
the number is so rediculously small that it makes it an acceptable risk.
I am curious though. Which TV show did you see allthis on that suddenly perked your concern over all this?
I have not heard of any children dying of toothpaste poisoning. They problem is long term health effects, so we wouldnt hear of childrin dying of toothpawte poisoning. We would be wondering why there are so many ADD cases, alzhiemers on the rise, cancer is soon to be the number 1 killer in adults, 1 in 2 adult males will get cancer. Sure fluoride is not soley responsible, but does it contribute? Like you say, I make my choice. I am fluoirde free except for my toothpaste, and you cant find a fluoirde less toothpaste at the store. And you make yours. We are both ahppy with that decision.
Like I said, there is a difference between acceptable and neccesary risks. To get the full benefit of fluoride, if there is any, you need not DRINK it. Therefore, to put it in DRINKING water, 99.5% of which is going down the drain is at least inefficient to the point of stupidity, as well as unnecessary.
I didnt get this from a tv show, I was working with a group of disabled kids for the church picnic, after lunch they all were suppose to brush thier teeth, a harmless activity for a mentally disabled child eh? Half of them were putting globs of paste on thier toothbrush and using the thing like a lollipop, luckily, i thought the danger was one of them falling and jamming it down thier throats, so I had them put them away. Thats when I saw the poison control warning on the back of the tube. If you want to know the truth about fluoride, call poison control and tell them your 3 year old may have swallowed half a tube of toothpaste.
So i answered your questions, can you answer mine? Can you think of a 'better safe than sorry' way to get fluoride to the teeth than injecting it in water? or is that the only alternative?
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Read these warning labels from the back of a tube of a well known brand of toothpaste:
Active Ingredient Sodium Fluoride 0.243%.
Use helps protect against cavities Warnings Keep out of reach of children under 6 yrs. of age. If more than used for brushing is accidentally swallowed, get medical help or contact a Poison Control Center right away.
Directions: adults and children 2 yrs & older: brush teeth thoroughly after meals or at least twice a day or use as directed by a dentist * do not swallow * to minimize swallowing us a pea-sized amount in children under 6 * supervise children's brushing until good habits are established * children under 2 years, ask a dentist.
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Originally posted by Shuckins
If more than used for brushing is accidentally swallowed, get medical help or contact a Poison Control Center right away.
Ah yes, well I suppose they would have a warning like that, in the land of litigation. I've just looked on my own toothpaste tube, and could find no such dire warning - just the one about using a pea sized amount to minimise swallowing.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Ah yes, well I suppose they would have a warning like that, in the land of litigation. I've just looked on my own toothpaste tube, and could find no such dire warning - just the one about using a pea sized amount to minimise swallowing.
Well, its on my toothpaste tube. I can put 2 and 2 together. If you swallow more than is needed for brushing, seek medical help or call poison control immediatley. Fluoride is poisonous. Deadly poison in the concentration of a tube of toothpaste. I'll error to the side of caution with my water. A simple rinse and spit with fluoridated water does every bit as good as drinking 8 to 10 glasses a day. Its funny how they confuse volume with time. The bonding of fluoride to the enamal of a tooth is a function of time, not volume. They should say rinse with water for 2 to 3 minutes throught the day. Swallow if you dare, spit if your paranoid.
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very small amounts of flouride are probably harmless and at the same time...do help prevent tooth decay in children. At the same time....with todays dentistry and the ability to give the much more effective flouride treatments to childrens teeth it is pretty much unnessary.
On the flip side... very small amounts of flouride have a determental affect on adults teeth. Not much but measureable. Adding anything to water is a risk... flouride is a potent toxin in realtively small doses.
Some safeguards you might take with flouridated water are that you should not keep a pot on the stove for say tea or hot drinks and simply add water to it as needed... the flouride will accumulate. If you are an adult... the less flouride you ingest the better.. bottled water now and then is not that bad of an idea although.... the worst case scenario with flouride levels is not all that bad.
There is some evidence that flouride allows other metals to be absorbed but... not to any really meaningful way at this time. Still...
Why bother with flouride? If you can afford to send your kids to the dentist then it is pretty much not needed in the water.... If you can't afford to send your kids to the dentist... their teeth are doomed in any case. flouride in the water or not.
You can also buy floride pills for children and they are inexpensive.
My take... It is probly not the best idea to put Cl2 or flouride in the water.... Most plants are not using cl2 anymore (ultraviolet disinfection) even tho the effects of cl2 in the water have not been a real problem in the past. We have done it for decades..
but... just like flouride... why do it? Why add anything with real potential for harm if there are alternatives that work as well without the risk?
lazs
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Maybe it's the other ingredients in the toothpaste rather than the flouride that the warning is about.
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Maverick...oddly enough, that was the only ingredient listed on my tube of toothpaste.
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There has to be other "stuff" in there. You know flavoring, polishing media, binders etc. etc. as toothpaste isn't just flouride.
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Well, is ure hope fluoride is the most toxic ingredient in toothpaste, or we'll have yet another conspiracy theory on our hands.:D
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I propose that Beetle should prove that the toothpaste warnings are all BS by consuming a tube of toothpaste as an experiment. :D
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Originally posted by Mr Big
I propose that Beetle should prove that the toothpaste warnings are all BS by consuming a tube of toothpaste as an experiment. :D
I am going to write my water supplier and ask him to comment on the dangers of fluoride, who decides to put it in the water, and if we have any choice in the matter. I will post his answers. Its really strange, as I cannot find anybody who will take the "credit" for implementing the fluoride thing. Its 'a group of dentists'. Wasnt mengele a dentist?
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Originally posted by Mr Big
I propose that Beetle should prove that the toothpaste warnings are all BS by consuming a tube of toothpaste as an experiment. :D
:rofl
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Im surrounded (http://www.lionking.org/sounds/WAV/ImSurroundedByIdiots.wav) :D
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Whitehawk, be sure to mention 'precious bodilly fluids' when you call.
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No flouride in the water here... and neither of my children have ever had a cavity.
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Originally posted by lazs2
very small amounts of flouride are probably harmless and at the same time...do help prevent tooth decay in children. At the same time....with todays dentistry and the ability to give the much more effective flouride treatments to childrens teeth it is pretty much unnessary.
On the flip side... very small amounts of flouride have a determental affect on adults teeth. Not much but measureable. Adding anything to water is a risk... flouride is a potent toxin in realtively small doses.
Fluorides prevention of cavities isn't something that only helps children. It's mechanism for reducing cavities is simply that presence of the fluoride in your saliva effectively lowers the pH value needed for the enamel to start to decay.
The most common acid produced by bacteria in your mouth is lactic acid with a pH-value of about 5. Normal enamel starts to decay at 5,3-5,5, but with fluoride present, the pH-value have to be about 4,5.
It's true that moderate doses of fluoride can damage the teeth, but only while they are forming, so as an adult you won't see damage to your teeth by taking in higher doses of fluoride over a period of time, since your teeth don't grow.