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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: RALEM on June 20, 2006, 02:28:02 AM

Title: Hurricane
Post by: RALEM on June 20, 2006, 02:28:02 AM
From what world did Hitech find this hurricane never was A manueverable plane.:O :O :lol :furious :rolleyes: :huh
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Raptor on June 20, 2006, 02:37:35 AM
Same world that B17s turn with spits?
Title: Hurricane
Post by: ded on June 20, 2006, 04:02:58 AM
the hoicane mk2 is awesome
Title: Re: Hurricane
Post by: Furball on June 20, 2006, 04:49:58 AM
Quote
Originally posted by RALEM
From what world did Hitech find this hurricane never was A manueverable plane.:O :O :lol :furious :rolleyes: :huh


where do we keep getting these people from?
Title: Re: Re: Hurricane
Post by: Schatzi on June 20, 2006, 05:04:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
where do we keep getting these people from?



Dunno, but hes right.

The HMk1 is way too uber. PERK IT!!!!




PS: Furball with Furball?
Title: Re: Hurricane
Post by: TexMurphy on June 20, 2006, 06:23:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by RALEM
From what world did Hitech find this hurricane never was A manueverable plane.:O :O :lol :furious :rolleyes: :huh


1. Stop blaming your own inadequacy on others
2. Turn off stall limmiter
3. Stop flat turning
4. Use ACMs
5. Outmanouver anything

Tex
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Charge on June 20, 2006, 07:56:27 AM
Well, the Finnish pilots considered Hurricane to be rather sluggish for a fighter...

Our Hurri doesn't feel sluggish at all. Instant respose to aileron controls, great E retention after dives...

It probably was good in turning circles but I do not know if it was good in anything else.

-C+
Title: Hurricane
Post by: hubsonfire on June 20, 2006, 10:18:32 AM
Well, HiTech, I guess that's settled. Better remodel it and fix this obvious oversight, quickly.
Title: Re: Hurricane
Post by: Airscrew on June 20, 2006, 10:33:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by RALEM
From what world did Hitech find this hurricane never was A manueverable plane.:O :O :lol :furious :rolleyes: :huh

This is what happens when you get all your information from the History Channel :lol
couple of night ago there was some shows on the P-47 and P-40.   I heard this about the P-40,  "with it's 50mm guns P-40 was a deadly aircraft against the lighter Zero"  I had to rewind several times to make sure I heard what I heard, and thats just one tiny sample
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Pooface on June 20, 2006, 11:04:19 AM
at it's inception the hurricane was the worlds most maneuverable fighter. it seems that your information is WAY off mate...
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Shifty on June 20, 2006, 11:30:47 AM
You got to remember WWII air combat was rarely fought like it is in AH. Those silly bastages in WWII wanted to live.:)
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Bucky73 on June 20, 2006, 11:39:07 AM
In the Battle of Britain the Hurricane landed 5 out of every 7 kills. So, the ever so popular Spitty must be a tad over modeled eh?:confused:

Bucky
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 20, 2006, 12:26:11 PM
That's because the primary focus of the Hurricanes were the Luftwhiner bombers while the Spitfires primary focus were the Luftwhiner's fighter escorts.  So naturally, the Hurricane is going to have a higher kill ratio than the Spitfire.



ack-ack
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Airscrew on June 20, 2006, 12:33:07 PM
Ack, i was thinking the same thing except how do you account for the information that there was about 2 - 3 fighters for every 1 bomber (on some raids, probably not all)
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Shifty on June 20, 2006, 12:35:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
That's because the primary focus of the Hurricanes were the Luftwhiner bombers while the Spitfires primary focus were the Luftwhiner's fighter escorts.  So naturally, the Hurricane is going to have a higher kill ratio than the Spitfire.



ack-ack


That was the plan. It rarely happened that way. Like all military plans they last until contact with the enemy. The main reason for the Hurricanes high kill numbers were simply there were a hell of a lot more of them then Spits.

Still the Hurricane was still a great plane during the BOB.  Five out of every seven lost LW aircraft can't be all wrong.:aok
Title: Hurricane
Post by: rogerdee on June 20, 2006, 01:08:47 PM
amazing  find  a plane that isnt american  and because it fly well  and in real life at the time it was  built some says it has to be wrong.

Not everything that flew good was  american,they just like to think so
Title: Hurricane
Post by: BlauK on June 20, 2006, 01:20:02 PM
Pooface,
how do you define "most maneuverable"? .. smallest turn circle? fastest 360deg turn? fastest roll?

I find it fairly hard to believe that there would not have been some bi-plane fighters which were "more maneuverable" at that time.
Title: Hurricane
Post by: SpiveyCH on June 20, 2006, 01:55:53 PM
This was taken from the book, "Fighting Aircraft of WW2."


Development:  Until well into 1941 the Hurricane was by far the most numerous of the RAF's combat aircraft and it bore the brunt of the early combats with the Luftwaffe over France and Britain.  Designed by Camm as a Fury Monoplane, with Goshawk engine and spatted landing gear, it was altered on the drawing board to have the more powerful PV.12 (Merlin) and inwards-retracting gear and, later, to have not four machine guns but the unprecedented total of eight.  The Air Ministry wrote Specicication F.36/34 around it and after tests with the prototype ordered the then-fantastic total of 600 in June 1936.  In September 1939 the 497 delivered equipped 18 squadrons and by 7 August 1940 no fewer than 2,309 had been delivered, compared with 1,383 Spitfires, equipping 32 squadrons, compared with 18 1/2 Spitfire Squadrons.  Gloster's output in 1940 was 130 per month.  By this time the Hurricane I was in service with new metal-skinned wings, instead of fabric, and three-blade variable pitch (later constant-speed) propeller instead of the wooden Watts two-blader.  In the hectic days of 1940 the Hurricane was found to be an ideal bomber destroyer, with steady sighting and devastating cone of fire; turn radius was better than that of any other monoplane fighter, but the all-round performance of the Bf-109E was considerably higher.  The more powerful Mk II replaced the 1,030hp Merlin II by the 1,280hp Merlin XX and introduced new armament and drop tanks.  In North West Europe it became a ground-attack aircraft, and in North Africa a tank-buster with 40mm guns.  While operating from merchant-ship catapults and carriers it took part in countless fleet-defence actions, the greatest being the defence of the August 1942 Malta convoy, when 70 Sea Hurricanes fought off more than 600 Axis attackers, destroying 39 for the loss of seven fighters.  The Hurricane was increasingly transfered to the far east, Africa and other theatres, and 2,952 were dispatched to the Soviet Union, some receiving skis.  Hurricanes were used for many special trials of armament and novel flight techniques (one having a jettisonable biplane upper wing).  Total production amounted to 12,780 in Britain and 1,451 in Canada (after 1941 with Packard Merlins) and many hundreds were exported both before and after World War II.
Title: Hurricane
Post by: storch on June 20, 2006, 02:00:02 PM
the hurricane also used rag construction the 20mm's would push through and not detonate unless the hit something solid.  it was a well built, rugged airplane.  what it shouldn't be able to do is retain E as well as it does in this game.  it's a fantasy model like the P38s, the 110s and others I don't recall.  here's the rub the wwii guys didn't fly around with a red tag pointing to their location and the bad guy didn't have a leupold 4x12 scope to sight you in with either. :aok
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Karnak on June 20, 2006, 02:49:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
the hurricane also used rag construction the 20mm's would push through and not detonate unless the hit something solid.  it was a well built, rugged airplane.  what it shouldn't be able to do is retain E as well as it does in this game.  it's a fantasy model like the P38s, the 110s and others I don't recall.  here's the rub the wwii guys didn't fly around with a red tag pointing to their location and the bad guy didn't have a leupold 4x12 scope to sight you in with either. :aok

Only thing I disagree with you there is your comment about the zoom.  It really isn't a zoom as that implies magnification.  What it does is brings the images to the correct size instead of having it reduced to increase the viewable field on a tiny computer screen.
Title: Re: Hurricane
Post by: Guppy35 on June 20, 2006, 02:56:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by RALEM
From what world did Hitech find this hurricane never was A manueverable plane.:O :O :lol :furious :rolleyes: :huh


And on what do you base your claim that it was never a manueverable plane?

Just because the guy in AH is going slower in his Hurri IIc, and can turn quicker then an LA7 going light speed, doesn't mean the modeling is wrong.

Lets face it, the folks flying the Hurri aren't looking to go fast.  They're looking for some poor sap to try and turn fight em so they can use those 4 20mms

So when the Spit 16 driver who thinks he should out fly everything because he's in a 16, tries to get slow with the Hurri II, he ends up eating 20mms

And to be honest, this is the first I've ever heard that the Hurri wasn't a maneuverable plane.   Could it be your info is wrong?
Title: Hurricane
Post by: TDeacon on June 20, 2006, 02:56:49 PM
These AH Hurricane complaints are very vague and subjective.  

If you guys want HTC to pay any attention to them, someone needs to measure performance of the area in question, in the game, describing the procedure and results.  Then analyze these measurements relative to measurements of other planes in AH, or relative to real historical data.  (This is a lot of work, of course, which is why most people don't bother to do it).  

Otherwise, it's just whining.  :-)
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Karnak on June 20, 2006, 03:43:05 PM
Dan,

Well, that is the thing.  All we have to go on are subjective things.

R. R. S. Tuck certainly seemed to think that the Spitfire Mk I was much more responsive to the pilot than the Hurricane.  He didn't think it was a bad fighter, just that it wasn't "part" of him the way the Spitfire was.

In AH the Spitifre Mk I is an aircraft you have to struggle with horribly and wrestle it to get it to roll whereas the Hurricane Mk I is light and and easy to the touch.  That is pretty far from how Tuck related it.


If the Hurricane Mk I, Spitfire Mk I, Bf109E-4 and Bf110C-4 performed like they do in AH then the Hurricane and Bf110 would have gone on to see major development and been the main fighters of Britain and Germany in WWII leaving the Spitfire and Bf109 to be phased out as less capable machines.
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Squire on June 20, 2006, 03:46:58 PM
Its the usual case of comparing early and late war rides, folks think that "early" a/c are supposed to be total P-O-S, and then are shocked when  they turn out to be more manueverable than their 1944 superfighter at lower airspeeds.

Be thankfull the CR42 and Gloster Gladiator aren't in AH. :lol
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Guppy35 on June 20, 2006, 03:48:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
Dan,

Well, that is the thing.  All we have to go on are subjective things.

R. R. S. Tuck certainly seemed to think that the Spitfire Mk I was much more responsive to the pilot than the Hurricane.  He didn't think it was a bad fighter, just that it wasn't "part" of him the way the Spitfire was.

In AH the Spitifre Mk I is an aircraft you have to struggle with horribly and wrestle it to get it to roll whereas the Hurricane Mk I is light and and easy to the touch.  That is pretty far from how Tuck related it.


If the Hurricane Mk I, Spitfire Mk I, Bf109E-4 and Bf110C-4 performed like they do in AH then the Hurricane and Bf110 would have gone on to see major development and been the main fighters of Britain and Germany in WWII leaving the Spitfire and Bf109 to be phased out as less capable machines.


Not disagreeing with that :)

My thing is with comments like the orignal poster.  Chances are he got whacked by a Hurri driver while he was cruising around in his LA7 and is wondering how it happened
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Airscrew on June 20, 2006, 03:50:17 PM
I'll have to look in one of my books but i seem to recall one pilot, after moving to the Spitfire,  described the handling of the hurricane like a truck.  but in the same book other pilots described the Hurricane as a joy to fly without vices, very manuverable.
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Flatbar on June 20, 2006, 03:57:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TDeacon
These AH Hurricane complaints are very vague and subjective.  

If you guys want HTC to pay any attention to them, someone needs to measure performance of the area in question, in the game, describing the procedure and results.  Then analyze these measurements relative to measurements of other planes in AH, or relative to real historical data.  (This is a lot of work, of course, which is why most people don't bother to do it).  

Otherwise, it's just whining.  :-)


Glad to see someone gets it :P

Hard historical data that proves HTC has it wrong is the only thing that should force a change, everything else is just anecdotal and meaningless, makes for good stories though :D
Title: Re: Re: Hurricane
Post by: Warspawn on June 20, 2006, 04:09:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
And on what do you base your claim that it was never a manueverable plane?

And to be honest, this is the first I've ever heard that the Hurri wasn't a maneuverable plane.   Could it be your info is wrong?


The Finns seemed to think it was just a target when they faced them with their Brewsters.  "Sluggish and unresponsive in a dogfight" I believe is what was said by their reports.

/shrug.  I just avoid even thinking about looking at the nose of one, or attempting to turn or maneuver in the verticle with the ebil thing.  If it's in front of me though, I'll try to take a bite out of it.  Then run.

They are da debbil though.  Many times I've pumped type 99 or Hispano 20mm's into one thinking it was surely dead, only to have it shrug off the hits and continue fighting :huh  .
Title: Hurricane
Post by: storch on June 20, 2006, 05:04:16 PM
both of the huricanes should probably handle more like the zekes than what they are modelled like currently.  it was a great gun platform, rock solid by all accounts.  rock solid gun platforms are usually not very manuoeverable.  the best turners are are actually a bit unstable.  they shouldn't have the zoom capability that they do in this game and that big fat wing should bleed off E rapidly.
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Brooke on June 20, 2006, 05:22:35 PM
Being less maneuverable than a Brewster is not that same as being poor at maneuvering.
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Warspawn on June 20, 2006, 06:24:14 PM
Ah, wasn't comparing them to Brewsters.  Was just saying several pilots that faced them said they sucked at dogfighting :D  .  I should have just said that the Finns that fought them said they weren't much of a threat in a fight.

In AH though, they are definately the ride of choice when you want to stallfight, and make your hits hurt.  Like I said though, I just avoid 'em, run from them if I get their attention, or cherrypick 'em when they enter hover mode.
Title: Hurricane
Post by: TDeacon on June 20, 2006, 07:49:37 PM
Quote from Eric Brown's "Duels in the Sky" book; btw he actually flew all these aircraft; on the Sea Hurricane:

"Aerobatics were easy to execute in this maneuverable fighter, with its faily good harmony of control throughout the speed range.  The ailerons wre the lightest control, the rudder the heaviest.  Controls grew heavier with increases in speed but remained effective.  Split trailing edge flaps could be used for added maneuverability at virtually any speed, as their angle would adjust with the airflow."  (With respect to the Sea Hurricane) "... its performance was inferior to that of the RAF version".
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Airscrew on June 20, 2006, 07:50:21 PM
ok, this is from "Hurricane at War" Author - Chaz Bowyer 1974
Tom Gleave, Commander 253 Sq, Biggin Hill, 1940
To fly the Hurricane was sheer pleasure.  She had no vices, other than the stall, from which even her feathered friends were not immune.  She answered every call made on her with will, sharing with the Spitfire the joy of having the impeccably mannered Roll-Royce Merlin to attend to her every whim.  She took off without any marked swinging tantrum from which other, less well-bred types suffered.  She was unbelievably stable, and in cloud or at night, when rudder and elevator tabs were properly adjusted, she would settle down in a rut of her own making whether going up or down.  And at no time was this virtue more precious than when taking off on a pitch dark night and climbing into a coal black void.
In a dogfight the Hurricane could almost turn on her tail as her guns spat tracer, lead, and incendiary at anything that dared try to join the circle.  In pursuit she could cut corners, and only when the superior climb of the Me109 took it out of danger had she to look for other "game".  When making her own getaway, she took without complaint the quickest of flick-rolls and U-turns, and 'standing on the rudder bar' held no terrors for her or her pilot.  ... close-knit melees ensuing in which her magnificent manoeuvrability and control paid handsome dividends.

Graham Leggett, E Flight, Aston Down.   His first flight.
At take-off power the Hurricane needs a fair bit of right rudder, then, almost unexpectedly, she leaps eagerly off the grass and flies.  Unconsciously moving the stick when reaching for the undercarriage lever, I immediately have to pick up the nose and port wing --- God! these controls are sensitive!  But what a beautiful aeroplane -- instant obedience to the controls, superb view, and what power.  ....
Easing back on the stick the nose follows the horizon effortlessly -- in fact she almost flies herself and the rudder seems superfluous.  
For the next 15 minutes I have the time of my life.  Diving and climbing turns, rolling, stalling -- the Hurricane flies like the thoroughbred bird she is.  There's much to learn, but already I know the Hurricane's secret -- superb manoeuvrability

J. W. Brooks.  Manston
Once in the air with the wheels up, the Hurricane was a delight.  You didn't so much fly it as 'wear' it.  At high speeds the controls did tend to stiffen up and this was common on all aircraft.  Yet the Hurricane could still be manoeuvred quite adequately.  It was better than the Spitfire in this respect and far superior to the ME 109.  It could literally 'turn on a six-pence'

:rolleyes: yea the Hurricane isnt very manoeuvrable
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Warspawn on June 20, 2006, 07:58:31 PM
Thanks Airscrew!  Good quotes and research well done.  Most of the stuff that I'd heard wasn't as favorable as what you've posted here.  Makes me feel a bit better about 'em now!
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Magoo on June 20, 2006, 09:46:26 PM
What we need is the Oscar to give the Hurricanes a run for their money :)
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Stang on June 20, 2006, 09:51:51 PM
God I love these threads.

:lol
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Kermit de frog on June 21, 2006, 12:49:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Stang
God I love these threads.

:lol



Stang, say something useful or STFU.

That is all

:D



j/k
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Slash27 on June 21, 2006, 12:55:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by rogerdee
amazing  find  a plane that isnt american  and because it fly well  and in real life at the time it was  built some says it has to be wrong.

Not everything that flew good was  american,they just like to think so



Mad about that tie with Sweden or what?
Title: Hurricane
Post by: LEDPIG on June 21, 2006, 01:23:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
the hurricane also used rag construction the 20mm's would push through and not detonate unless the hit something solid.  it was a well built, rugged airplane.  what it shouldn't be able to do is retain E as well as it does in this game.  it's a fantasy model like the P38s, the 110s and others I don't recall.  here's the rub the wwii guys didn't fly around with a red tag pointing to their location and the bad guy didn't have a leupold 4x12 scope to sight you in with either. :aok



Very well said Storch, I agree also the Hurri should not retain E, It's light and made of fabric. Kinda like a heavier Piper Cub with guns, The cub dosn't retain E:O
Title: Hurricane
Post by: bkbandit on June 21, 2006, 01:37:57 AM
great quote airscrew, i love readin what the real pilots had to say about the planes. I just love how the raf guys put it " She answered every call made on her with will, sharing with the Spitfire the joy of having the impeccably mannered Roll-Royce Merlin to attend to her every whim". Americans would just say "that pratt and whitney went like hell":lol . Same message just a different presentation, but either one comes in loud and clear. I love the documentarys wit the original pilots explaining the plane and how it flew, they speak with a some much passion. It just makes u want it.

rogerdee who said everything good is american??? "They just like to think so" who is they? I wont lie all my planes i fly are USN fighters wit the exception of my seaspit. BUt im not runing around sayin everything else sucks. I have flown wit alot of u british guys and never heard anythin like this. If i remember correctly ur one of them;) . The 51d is a plane that many historians say is one of the best dogfighters in history(in "real" life not in AH). Remember it was a american air frame and a british engine.
Title: Hurricane
Post by: hubsonfire on June 21, 2006, 01:45:33 AM
How many of you have flown any of the planes being compared, in the situations they're being compared? How many of you can say, without any doubt, that the hurricane couldn't do what it's used for in AH?
Title: Hurricane
Post by: bozon on June 21, 2006, 02:10:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by LEDPIG
Very well said Storch, I agree also the Hurri should not retain E, It's light and made of fabric. Kinda like a heavier Piper Cub with guns, The cub dosn't retain E:O

I consider Hurries poor zoomers. It is one of the few planes I feel confident to drag into a high speed dive and zoom in my P47. Most planes outzooms a P47, the hurri isn't one of them.

Do not confuse helicopter properties with E retantion. What makes it dangerous in a rope is it's ability to keep the nose up at very low speeds while you already stalled. From your cockpit it looks as if the hurri is still climbing but mostly it is you that fall down relative to it.

If you really want to make a case, run a few zoom tests and post the results.

Bozon
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Charge on June 21, 2006, 02:33:43 AM
Interesting, it's surely convincing to read about the expressions of test pilots flying it the first time in 1935... ;-)

I'm sure it had a fairly good (steep) climb and it could turn on a dime but those are features which are made possible by its thick wing. The problem with thick wing, AFAIK, is that the aileron tends to be ineffective and its initial effect could be described as sluggish and if it is wide and less "deep". The overall effect can be poor and get even worse in high speed as the aileron remains "in shade" of the wing profile.

The thick wing is also draggy. That is why it is significantly slower than Spitfire1 even with that same 1030hp Merlin. Does anybody know the NACA profiles for Hurricane?

BTW, here is some interesting reading of the Hurricane: http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/185674-1.html

-C+
Title: Hurricane
Post by: RTGorkle on June 21, 2006, 04:23:05 AM
Personally, I don't give a flying jellyfish's testicle how truely accurate all these flight models are.

As as long as the Hurricane kinda does what a Hurricane is supposed to do and a B-17 sort of behaves the way a B-17 is supposed to behave. As long as plane X outperforms plane Y in the aspects that you expect it to. As long as the Zero burns like a bucket of wet sodium. Etc etc.

As long as all that is happenning, I have a little bit of pixellated history to play with. I am provided with the planeset variety I need to fly different ways, in and against different planes.

That said, the original poster needs a slapping.
Title: Hurricane
Post by: zorstorer on June 21, 2006, 07:57:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by RTGorkle
...As long as the Zero burns like a bucket of wet sodium. Etc etc....

 



Leave a little too much kerosene on it and watch the flaming missile leap out of the bucket and shoot across the room :D
Title: Hurricane
Post by: BugsBunny on June 21, 2006, 08:15:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Warspawn
Was just saying several pilots that faced them said they sucked at dogfighting :D  .  


Isn't this true in AH also?  They are dead meat after the second turn.  All you have to do is slow them down.  The only reason I find them deadly here is when they come in behind a Spit, that is behind a lala, etc, and you are figting someone else.

Also, the very real life ability to spray with the 4 20mms from 400 to 600 out while twisting and turning.  If it was not for the guns, no one would be flying them.

Cept that girl from Germany.  Hmmmm, why isn't she in a 109 anyway?:D
Title: Hurricane
Post by: zorstorer on June 21, 2006, 04:39:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by BugsBunny
...Cept that girl from Germany.  Hmmmm, why isn't she in a 109 anyway?:D


She likes it old school ;)  Schatzi is her name and her game is the hurri mk1, a sweet beast indeed :)



:noid
Title: Hurricane
Post by: hubsonfire on June 22, 2006, 01:23:46 AM
The timer for editting has passed, so I have to compose another reply.

Upon looking through stats, Ralem has accumulated 5 entire kills in the Hurricane, and has been executed only 3 times. If you ignore the 3 deaths, he's practically a real ace, and we should accept that he just knows a lot more about the Hurricane as it is modelled in AH2 than does anyone else.

I apologize for thinking you were just an idiot who was whining about something which he was simply unable to comprehend, or pass judgement on.
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Schatzi on June 22, 2006, 03:06:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by bozon
I consider Hurries poor zoomers. It is one of the few planes I feel confident to drag into a high speed dive and zoom in my P47. Most planes outzooms a P47, the hurri isn't one of them.

Do not confuse helicopter properties with E retantion. What makes it dangerous in a rope is it's ability to keep the nose up at very low speeds while you already stalled. From your cockpit it looks as if the hurri is still climbing but mostly it is you that fall down relative to it.

If you really want to make a case, run a few zoom tests and post the results.

Bozon




I agree. I do not know other planes all to well, but i do know my AH HMk1. Once you go down, you stay there. Theres not much of a "zoom" back up. Since in a dive youll be hard pressed to exceed 400 mph, you wont have much speed to sustain your zoom to begin with. Add the thick wings and the fact that the Hurri is relatively large a plane....
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Whisky58 on June 22, 2006, 02:22:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Slash27
Mad about that tie with Sweden or what?


Ghana? - did somebody mention Ghana? :rofl

PS - for pity's sake put them away before someone gets hurt. :)
Title: Hurricane
Post by: RALEM on June 23, 2006, 03:40:14 PM
sorry didnt wanna offend all the hurri2c pilots:aok
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Furball on June 23, 2006, 03:45:41 PM


AI AM THE HURRICANE KIIIIEEEEEEEEEENG!!!1!
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Schatzi on June 23, 2006, 05:33:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Furball


AI AM THE HURRICANE KIIIIEEEEEEEEEENG!!!1!



Youre already the Queen N1k dweeb and the Val Goddess... what more?
Title: Hurricane
Post by: doogan on June 24, 2006, 12:49:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
The timer for editting has passed, so I have to compose another reply.

 
I apologize for thinking you were just an idiot who was whining about something which he was simply unable to comprehend, or pass judgement on.




  hubsonfire, superstar.
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Bruv119 on June 24, 2006, 03:49:58 AM
The hurricane model is spot on.

When flying a hurricane you can't dictate a fight only the stupid people who try a sustained turn fight get killed.

If you try to catch anything you will compress easily and the thing handles like a shopping trolley.  

If you see a hurricane above you just walk away and you wont get hurt.


The guns deadly.

so luftwhiners  just do what ya do best  and RUN!


Bruv
~S~
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Furball on June 24, 2006, 04:30:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Bruv119
The hurricane model is spot on.

When flying a hurricane you can't dictate a fight only the stupid people who try a sustained turn fight get killed.
 


i would go as far as saying anyone that carelessly attacks a hurricane gets killed.  it is the perfect plane for forcing the overshoot and taking the snapshot.

Quote
Originally posted by Schatzi
Youre already the Queen N1k dweeb and the Val Goddess... what more?


i drive a mean jeep!! :D
Title: Hurricane
Post by: storch on June 24, 2006, 06:39:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Bruv119

so luftwhiners  just do what ya do best  and RUN!


Bruv
~S~
 should I post some film of your lame bellybutton running away?  I have several.
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Angus on June 24, 2006, 08:04:03 AM
What did the BoB Hurricanes have on the BoB Spitfires?
1. More of them.
2. More rugged.
3. More groundcrew trained in the rigging of the older construction.
4. Better cone of fire and more stable gun platform.
5. Better roll rate.
6. Better turn rate.
7. Better view over the wing.

What did they have inferior?
1. Speed
2. ROC if anything.
3. Compressibility.
4. Dive acceleration.
5. Departure characteristics.

Tuck felt the Hurricane to be like an old pulling horse compared to the Spit.
T.E. Jonsson noted that the Hurricane had a very good rate of roll and similar stick forces for roll and pitch, but alas, slower and would compress.

By the time the Hurry IIC comes out, it's a mean one, but no match in speed and climb for the 109F which comes a tad later (?).
But ponder on it a minute. Compare the Hurry IIC to the Rata, the 109E, the C200, the P40, the KI27 (?), even the Yak-1, LaGG-3, and some others from the spring-summer of 1941 serving within the same timeframe, and it's not bad at all performancewise while packing 4x20 mm's!
Like furbie said, don't screw up if you fight a hurry :D
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Angus on June 25, 2006, 04:48:11 PM
A little add on on the Hurricane.
When retreating from Norway, the Brits wanted some Hurricanes out. They field-modded some Hurry I's (sandbags in aft fuselage) and sent them off to land on a CV. All landed safely, - none of the pilots having done anything of the sort before.
The CV got sunk en route, - all Hurricanes lost and most of the pilots.
So, you gurus, CV's name please and a pilot name that was a survivor :D
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Krusty on June 25, 2006, 05:07:00 PM
I know Cross survived, as did "Jamie" Pat Jameson.

Fighter command was desperate for hurricance that early in the war (before the spit1 even was around) that they attemped what was supposed to be impossible -- carrier landing hurricanes.
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Angus on June 25, 2006, 05:32:02 PM
Pat was the one I had in mind.
This is spring 1940 though...squadrons of Spitties already available.
Title: Hurricane
Post by: RALEM on July 09, 2006, 07:41:57 PM
Don't Blast me for posting about A airplane allot of remarks pointed at me looked at alot of records not many of you guys can do any better .Wasn't posting about any pilots . Only reason anyone pissed at me because they love this unrealistically modeled airplane .In the late 30s any plane that wasn't A bi plane would have seemed better.Furball your just A kiss up pork monger were you get me from whats that kissing up to other hurri pilots on and on all garbage!
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Squire on July 10, 2006, 01:23:45 AM
"From what world did Hitech find this hurricane never was A manueverable plane"

You chose to post that, don't blame us if we call you on something as silly as that statement is.

If you don't like it, then do some research before you post next time, and stop blaming us for your obvious ignorance of the subject, which is made no more impressive by the conga line of smilies after your post.
Title: Hurricane
Post by: jamesdeanoo7 on July 10, 2006, 12:51:47 PM
Those are great quotes aircrew. I agree its always nice to hear what the real pilots thought. I personally rarely venture into the air in a fighter as I am still learning the difficulties of the c47 lol. However I am fortunate enough to have been born at manston and spent my childhood around the base. My father was Douglas Baders gardner and because of this I met Bob Stanford Tuck and also Adolph Galland  who visited quite often. As a boy I listened intently to whatever they said. Galland was just a gentleman and always willing to spend time talking. Basically they echoed those reports you posted. The hurricane was superior in view, it was a much more stable gun platform and much sturdier than a spit. It was a long time ago but I still remember wanting to fly a hurricane  more than a spit. Galland did say though that the german planes having fuel injection would always try to climb with a hurri or a spit as the carberators in the british planes emptied quite quickly in a steep climb.  I am also lucky enough to have sat in  a spit and a hurri as well as alot of ww11 planes as my uncle was a rolls mechanic, and my father worked at shorts engineering where they not only repaired and built stirlings and sunderlands but other aircraft. I always wondered how some of those guys ever got into the cockpit which seemed so small. Anyway I just thought you might be interested in what I remembered. :aok
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Masherbrum on July 10, 2006, 01:04:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by BlauK
Pooface,
how do you define "most maneuverable"? .. smallest turn circle? fastest 360deg turn? fastest roll?

I find it fairly hard to believe that there would not have been some bi-plane fighters which were "more maneuverable" at that time.


Slower speeds (I.E. PZL.11, etc) better turning radius (typically).   The PZL shot down plenty of Luftwaffe planes as well.
Title: Hurricane
Post by: Iceman24 on July 10, 2006, 01:28:16 PM
"This is what happens when you get all your information from the History Channel  
couple of night ago there was some shows on the P-47 and P-40. I heard this about the P-40, "with it's 50mm guns P-40 was a deadly aircraft against the lighter Zero" I had to rewind several times to make sure I heard what I heard, and thats just one tiny sample"

yeah i watched a history or military channel show about spits and 109's/190's and at one point in the film they were talking about how the spits would outperform the 190's/109's in terms of speed and acceleration at most altitudes lol
Title: Hurricane
Post by: red26 on July 10, 2006, 01:39:49 PM
:lol :lol :lol :rofl :rofl :rofl

Spit over a 109 or 190 ha ha ha ha ha thats some funny stuff LOL