Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hawklore on June 20, 2006, 08:54:34 AM
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Just recreational.
I've always wanted to fly, and seeing everyone else soloing and getting ther PPL, who are 4x my age make me feel lousy.
What are the requirements?
Do you have to be mentally stable?
What about all that radio chatter, that tends to get me confused.
And all those gadgets!
:confused:
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Originally posted by Hawklore
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Do you have to be mentally stable?
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Best question ever!!! :rofl
Don't worry, if you're qualified as mentally unstable, you've filled the first requirement to be a skydiver :aok
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Originally posted by deSelys
Best question ever!!! :rofl
Don't worry, if you're qualified as mentally unstable, you've filled the first requirement to be a skydiver :aok
Ugh,
Everyone wants me to skydive.
No way in hell am I jumping out of a gliding aircraft that has a 90% chance of landing.
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Do you have to be mentally stable?
That is kind of an odd question.
But, yeah I highly recommend being mentally stable before you start flight training. No telling what your mental status is gonna be after training though!
Radio chatter....you will get used to listening to the important stuff pretty quickly.
All those gadgets.....You'll get them all figured out pretty quickly too!
Cost...I think it's pretty close to $4000 or so for a private licence up here. Probably a bit cheaper in the US.
RTR
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Hawk, I've been pricing it out here in Orlando which isn't too far from you. It's looking like its going run @ 4500+ w/a Cessna 150 if you want to get rated for Instruments look to pay an extra 1500 to 2000.
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Those numbers are too low. ESPECIALLY for florida
Plan on $7000.
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Cost...I think it's pretty close to $4000 or so for a private licence up here. Probably a bit cheaper in the US.
WOW 4k maybe 5 years ago. What is the price per hour wet where you guys are for a 152? With gas prices increasing, airport taxes and insurance we are up to $92 and hour wet for a 152 and tack on 45 for the instructor.
FAA regs need mandatory minimum of 40 hours total, figure 25 hours duel at $137 = $3425 + 15 hours solo at $92 = $1380 total at 40 hours = $4805.
Now the average PPL get their license at more like 60 total hours, figure 10 more duel and 10 more solo. That will add $1370 and $920 to the $4805 which = $7095.
So it is safe to expect at least 6k to get you license. Expect to fly at least twice a week 2 hour blocks until you solo, then you should be flying at least once a week solo and if you can once a week with your instructor.
The biggest mistake people make is letting to much time pass between lessons. Then you end up rehashing everything you did the last session rather than building on it.
I would recommend, if you have the 6k and the time DO IT. You will thank yourself over and over and over. :aok
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Think 5 grand is a lot? for a hobby?
It ain't.
Relative costs of my 'hobbies'
Shooting: great hobby. one of those 'indespensible skills'. Also hugely interesting for a history buff.. a great hobby for someone who has some mechanical smarts and is good with thier hands since every weapon can use a bit of 'smithing' to improve some aspect of it's character. And like most hobbies, it converts money into a skill. Assuming a normal 'arsenal' and about 5,000 rounds of ammo a year and range fees.. a cool 5 grand to get yer skills up to 'expert'.
Model Aviation: A great 'american pastime'. Lots of winter evenings on the building benches; lots of beautiful days down at the flying field tooling around the sky with your awsome model airplane. Like most of the 'great' hobbies.. a similar 'great' investment in time and cold hard cash. To get to the point of being rated a 'decent' pilot and obtaining expert building skills.. at LEAST 5 grand, and probably double that.
Ham Radio: An interesting world filled with amazing science fiction gadgetry and incredibly arrogant and miserable old salamanders crouched over thier 90 year old morse code keys. Hugely interesting capabilities, concepts and technology, large learning curve. But.. talking to the Astronauts direct, bouncing signals off of passing meteors, raising Auckland on the HF.. hey; that's cool. About 1 to 2 grand builds up a good 'shack' and the stuff you learn might save somebodys life.. like your familys in a natural disaster.
Sailing: A boat is a hole in the water into which one pours money. But, the skills learned are classed right up there with the other 'fine arts' like flying and shooting.. and again; the skill set you obtain can and probably will save some lives. You learn about weather on a personal level, how to tie some dandy knots, and you get to talk like a pirate. You become a 'skilled' at about 5 grand invested. Hopefully. ;)
I'll let the other guys fill yah in on some of the other hobbies like motorcycles, skiing, surfing, etc... suffice to say that 5 grand to 'get in' is cheap for a skillset like flying... and it IS a hugely fun and rewarding pastime, worth every nickel invested every time you do it.
Charge ahead.. DO IT!
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Jump out of teh plane: 20$ ... you get to fly as well! :p
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Yep, sounds like my numbers are way off. (still living in the 70's hehe).
RTR
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I've spent about 2,500 probally even more, into my WW2 reenacting hobby.
So is there any difference in cost helicopter vs. fixed wing?
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LOL yeah about 200 bucks for the copter rental an hour.
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Originally posted by Hawklore
I've spent about 2,500 probally even more, into my WW2 reenacting hobby.
So is there any difference in cost helicopter vs. fixed wing?
Helicopter will be hideously expensive. Rates, dry, for a small Enstrom in AZ are about $250.00 + per hour, then add the instructor to it.
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you might think that $4-7k is alot of money for a pilots licence, but you'd be wrong.
just think, most of us paid between $1-2k just to play this game. :O
In the UK you're looking at around £7-10k ($13-17k) for your PPL and in other countries this way round the globe it only gets more expensive till you reach the western USA again, if my judgment is correct.. France is cheaper to learn in the the UK though i think.
I have been working towards mine for 7 or so years, and only have 8 hours in small prop planes (with aerobatics and tow releases/landings under my belt in gliders) and i am coming up to 24 years old.
If you want a licence, starting 'next week' is too late, and unless you're very wealthy, or have a sugar daddy, it will take you a while.
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I was about to write that Hang forgot cats among is hobbies list ... when I remembered it's the reverse ,Hang is a cat hobby, not the "contraire" :D
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Straffo.. you are correct, being a freaking servant to a couple of cats is not in any way, shape or form a freaking hobby.
It's slavery.
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Originally posted by mars01
WOW 4k maybe 5 years ago. What is the price per hour wet where you guys are for a 152? With gas prices increasing, airport taxes and insurance we are up to $92 and hour wet for a 152 and tack on 45 for the instructor.
FAA regs need mandatory minimum of 40 hours total, figure 25 hours duel at $137 = $3425 + 15 hours solo at $92 = $1380 total at 40 hours = $4805.
The place I haved checked out is $114 for Dual and solo at $80 dollars. Perhaps its where you learn, this is with a Cessna 152. I don't need anything fancy, I can always get a check out later on down the road for something bigger.
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Perhaps its where you learn
Of course it is. Those are good prices I would say do it ASAP.
When I took my lessons in 2000 our 152s were only $65 an hour and the instructors were around $35 an hour. Gas was less than $2 bucks a gallon, we are now 4.36 a gal. The longer you put it off the more expensive it is going to be. DO IT NOW.
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Call up some local flight schools and ask their rental and instruction rates. Multiply that by 60 and that will give you a rough idea for costs, not including things like headsets, books, medical, tests, etc.
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One of the nicest things about getting a ppl is that it doesn't expire. You may no longer be current or have a valid physical but you still have the license. All it would take to go back in the air is a current physical and a refresher from a CFI that would count towards your biannual. Then you're back.
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Originally posted by Hawklore
What about all that radio chatter, that tends to get me confused.
I was an ATC for several years. Couldn't understand half the things said either and had to ... hmm... interpulate between the words I did get.
But hey, don't worry. Skies are big and planes are small.
:D
Bozon
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What about sport pilots licenses? Shouldn't that theoretically cut your costs almost in half?
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It will take about 25 to 30 hours to do a sport pilot license.
If you plan on primarily renting aircraft, then Sport Pilot is not a great option, because currently you can't readily rent sport pilot planes. This may change tho.
IMH, if you’re going to spend the money you might as well go the full distance.
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dont forget to add in the cost of
the checkride $300
groundschool (mine was $300 & worth twice that, but there are some terrible instructors out there)
books $100
charts $46 anually (JAX is good, you're right in the middle of a sectional)
medical $80
a new shirt
a :cool: :cool: pair of :cool: :cool: sunglasses :cool: :cool:
foggles $16 (get them, "hoods" suck)
hamburgers & pancakes
if there is a good flying club available, i'd look into it.
it will save you $ in the long run & the members will be full of all the local info you can't find on the 'net.
i found i spent about $1500 more than just the cost of rental & instruction.
also, if you have been mentally unstable in the legal sense (visited a doctor for it) you can expect a bit of a wait to get your medical cert. they seem to be serious about reviewing that stuff in OK city. a guy that was in groundschool with me waited more than 6 months for his medical to be OK'd becuse of a couple psychatrist visits a decade previously
:noid :noid :noid
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The best part: You pay as you go. Don't look at the full cost, just go and take lessons when you can. The faster you can do it, the cheaper it is, but waiting until you have all the cash is a mistake, it'll just push this off further and further.
Radio chatter was the scariest thing about the whole training for me, turned out to be a total non-issue. Once you have the format down (Basically Who, Me, Where, then What) it's cake. An example of that format is "Eugene tower, Cessna 1437F 10 miles east, landing". You'll learn to fancy stuff up eventually (giving ATIS info, alt, etc), but that's the basic format and it applies to everything. You don't get rapped on the knuckles for making a mistake, and in a pinch you can use normal english if it's the difference between being understood or not.
In regards to understanding what they say to you, just listen. If you don't understand something, just ask and they'll slow it down.
Sport pilot is cool if you can find it there, it cuts your cost in half. Then you can (at your leisure) work your way towards the full PPL. And you can fly with your friends while doing it!
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Sport pilot license = joke. Recreational license = bigger joke.
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I agree the biggest benefit of the sport pilot cert is for guys that know they are going to fail a PPL medical. But then again there isn't much to fly in Sport Pilot cat for PP honestly. But I guess a Cub/Champ is better than no flying at all.
It is exploding tho, the number of sport pilots at our school is almost = to PP students.
Don't look at the full cost, just go and take lessons when you can.
I have seen more people NOT get their license doing just that. They start and stop and never make much progress when they have long breaks inbetween lessons, they seem to take way longer than 60 hours if they get it at all. You should have at least enough money to pay 20 hours duel up front so you get your solo done. At that point you can have longer breaks inbetween lessons because you have the base that solo gives you. Any gap 2 weeks or more for a pre solo pilot is just a waste of money.
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Like hang said.. 5 grand aint much for a hobby
Thats about the ammount i spend every year on gas, replacement propellers and bandages for my boating "adventures".
When we one day will "invest" in a sailboat, that ammount will seem like pocket change.
But ofcourse... when you get your pilot license you also have to have something to fly with.
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Go for it, if nothing else fly until you solo. That can never be taken away from you.
In truth, whatever the advice you get, remember this:
It will cost you more than you think.
It will take longer than you anticipate.
You will struggle sometimes and wonder if it's worth the effort.
You will scare yourself once in a while, but not half as much as you scare your instructor.
But if you persevere, you will become skilled at something few people will ever do. When solo you will be completely alone in a way you have never experienced. Your perception of the Earth and the sky will change forever and when you land after a good flight, you'll feel sorry for all those sad people around you who haven't flown today.
Best of all you live in America. America is beyond argument, the best and cheapest place to learn to fly, bar none.
Whenever someone asks me about flying I tell them aim to go solo. It isn't that difficult. Then you can think about what to do next. You'll know 100% at that stage. But aim to go solo first.
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Originally posted by Hawklore
Ugh,
Everyone wants me to skydive.
No way in hell am I jumping out of a gliding aircraft that has a 90% chance of landing.
Ahem. ALL airborne aircraft have a 100% chance of landing.
The question is. From what angle how hard and in what condition :)
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Helicopter will be hideously expensive.
Mav has that exactly right.
It cost me $35K back in the day to do my commercial.
Nowadays, up here, it's going to cost a minimum of 40K for a commercial, or 25K or so for a private.
Enstroms *shudder*...... don't care if I ever see one again as long as I live. Flying farm equipment.
Those who only do a private find it next to impossible to find one to rent for an hour to exercise thier licence. (most private helicopter pilots up here are those that have the funds to buy thier own).
Insurance rates are pretty steep in the rotory wing world, hence the reluctance to rent them out like a cessna.
cheers,
RTR
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Im an exception but look for around 7k in florida. I shouldn't be that hard hawk.
Yes Helicopter kills the wallet though if you want to become a police helicopter pilot it more than pays of latter. Plus not to mention you rack up the hours like crazy.
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Problem with that Skull, is a brand new commercial helicopter pilot is not going to be hired to fly a police helicopter. The flying experience just isn't there.
Up here, it's very hard for new pilots to get that break and actually land a flying job right after training.
The schools pump these kids out with 100 hrs and a brand shiny new CPH.
Most customers require that the pilot we send to fly for them have a minimum amount of hours (usually 500 to 1500 hours , depending on the customer).
So, the problem becomes trying to find some flying for these kids. Most new commercial heli pilots end up spending a couple of years working on the ground (that is if they can even find an employer in the industry who is willing to hire them).
It's a tough row to hoe, but some do make it. They need to be somewhat of a jack of all trades. Most who make it and start flying have something else to bring to the table. (IE they have experience in oil field or gas plant operations, or are a carpenter, electrician, etc etc.)
Also, in general as a helicopter pilot, the pay is not as great as you would think. If I was in it for the money, I would be doing something else. There is an old saying in the industry. "If at the end of the year you want to have 100K in the bank, start out with 200K"
The personal rewards and the life experiences most cetainly make up for the lack of high pay though (for me anyway).
Just some info to chew on, for any who think about flying helicopters commercially.
cheers,
RTR
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Originally posted by B17Skull12
Im an exception but look for around 7k in florida. I shouldn't be that hard hawk.
Yes Helicopter kills the wallet though if you want to become a police helicopter pilot it more than pays of latter. Plus not to mention you rack up the hours like crazy.
It's far easier for a Police agency to train a cop to be a pilot than it is to train a pilot to be a cop. They bring their pilots up from inside the agency. I knew one guy who figured he'd make the odds in his favor by getting his helicopter license on his own then putting in for the position. It didn't work.
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Is there a time limit?
Like if you start training today, do you have like X many years before you must complete or you start over?
I've always wanted my pilots license, but the cost has always made me think it would be impossible. My family and I live on a Oklahoma teacher's salary so...I pinch my pennies.
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The only time limit I know of is how long the results of a written test are valid. If you waited until near the end to take the written, that wouldn't be a problem. Realistically, the longer you spread your training out over, the more it costs because of time spent re-learning things you've forgotten. Also, I imagine that from a subjective view, the guy giving you the checkride might raise an eyebrow at hours that are 5 years old, especially if your total is near the minimum, and you might expect some pretty spectacular grilling. Just a guess, though.
One common theme in aviation is that if you can't afford to fly a lot, you'll have a hard time staying safe. Lately, because of cash flow problems, I haven't really done any solo flight because I'm more aware of my limitations. Anytime I go more than a month or so without flying, I go up with an instructor to make sure my rust isn't giving me any bad habits, and that's an extra expense, but worth it IMHO. I'm sure this will get a bunch of eye rolling from Golfer, but meh, what can you do?
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My brother tells me that American Eagle is hard up now and hiring pilots with as little as 300 hours.
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Fun summary of alternatives, Hangtime. :aok
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Ok .. some other things to consider that havent been mentioned.
You fly Aces High .. you know what an aileron is, what flaps do, what a good approach looks like, a little on how to flare, and what all the important gauges are (airspeed, alt, rate of climb/descent, attitude).
You even know some about stall recovery and what not to do.
You will be amazed at how much time this will cut out of any flight training program.
Example: I was into stall recovery in my first hour of dual. I placed 3rd in a spot landing contest ..with my instructor alongside me (and would have been 1st place if instructor hadn't insisted on that one, last, blip of throttle)
..(even the judges asked about that -grin-) .. on my 3rd hour of dual.
I solo'd at just over 7 hours.
Aces High is an excellent platform to shoot approaches with, because these planes come in a heck of a lot hotter than a 172 with flaps hangin out. You won't have any problem bein ahead of the airplane :)
IMHO Aces High has a better/more correct 'feel' to it than MSFS.
Read 'Stick and Rudder' if you havent already ..some real gems in there on how to tell where your gonna put the rubber when yer settin up your approach.. among other things.
You will find the Cessna will put you back in the seat when you gas it, and hang you from the straps when you cut throttle and start hangin flaps out.
The frame rate is at least 120fps, the screen resolution is great, and it is very much full-motion :)
It is a *BLAST* to do ..there isn't anything else that comes close.
IMHO.
-GE
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One thing about training, might want to think timing as well. I watched
guys try to start after work during the summer and spend weeks waiting
for decent weather during their block times.
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Well, I guess older threads have been revived before.
Hawk...not sure if you are still interested...but go to Herlong Field and check out the glider ops. You can get your ppl-g for about $2-3k. Soaring is a great way to fly for a person interested in flying just for sport.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Model Aviation: A great 'american pastime'. Lots of winter evenings on the building benches; lots of beautiful days down at the flying field tooling around the sky with your awsome model airplane. Like most of the 'great' hobbies.. a similar 'great' investment in time and cold hard cash. To get to the point of being rated a 'decent' pilot and obtaining expert building skills.. at LEAST 5 grand, and probably double that.
Wow, do you actually fly model aircraft? If so is it turbines? IMAA legal only, maybe? The cost you quoted here is WAY high to get to be a decent pilot, building skills depends on the builders background and experience when starting out. That said I've seen guys spend well beyond the level that their skills dictate fir that uber plane, just to re-kit it 5 seconds after takeoff.........