Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: cav58d on June 21, 2006, 03:47:03 PM
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(http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/2008/mustang4cf.jpg)
I know we have a lot of Mustang skins, but I would love for this to be added
anyone take a stab yet?
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Not even remotely historically accurate.
Gotta be careful when using current warbirds as an idea for an AH skin. Some are completely by the book. Others, like this one, are someone's idea of a paint scheme but not historical.
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Dang! I really like that skin....Stupid non historically accurate paint jobs =(
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I know it's not the same plane cav, but I'm working on a P-51D skin that's pretty colorful and different from those out there, so I'm hoping I can get it snuck in the rotation.
It's a P-51D, from the 374th FS, 361st FG called "Bald Eagle" and flown by Lt. Robert Eckfeld who had 7 kills.
Here's a "modern vision" of it
(http://www.londonairshow.com/2004%20photos/heritage/Air59.jpg)
and my very VERY early skin work (a sneak peek). I've done a bunch since then, but I'm kinda in crunch time at school, so I'm expecting completion to not be until late july/early august.
(http://syn_knite.home.mindspring.com/aceshigh/screenshots/eaglescreen_1.jpg)
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One suggestion: The upper surfaces aren't blue. They're more charcoal. The nose color is used for all the other parts. The nose color SHOULD be olive drab, a dark shade of green. I think that the modern version isn't correct in having it all charcoal.
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Hi Krusty :
I thank you for the suggestion. The reason I have it blue as I do (and I keep forgetting to change the tail color), is that a few profiles I've found had it as blue. Although I think you may be right that i'm going a little too blue. Unfortunately, the 2 D pony references I found that weren't modern restorations are coming up "file not found" so I deleted the bookmarks. But I can show a B illustration showing it as all blue. Although, most references I find point to the plane being B7-E and not P7-E as this illustration is showing.
I'm also wondering if I should do this as a 51B instead of a 51D, since I no longer have good 51D references other than the "repaints"
(http://www.p-51-mustang.com/planes/images/baldeagle_jpg.jpg)
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Not even remotely historically accurate.
Gotta be careful when using current warbirds as an idea for an AH skin. Some are completely by the book. Others, like this one, are someone's idea of a paint scheme but not historical.
You see some sky-blue paint jobs simply because the old Kodachrome negatives suffer from color shift when exposed to heat and humidity, turning most greens into blues. A few warbird owners have spent less time researching the paint schemes than they do examining a menu...
"But, I have a picture...."
My regards,
Widewing
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Also understand that there is a small group of folks who believe the 361st FG used blue in thier camo. NO vet recollections support this. It has been argued in the model building community forever and clearly some of the warbird owners have bought into it.
The camo should be OD
Here's an image of the wartime Bald Eagle. It should be a B model with the early hood. The camo was OD. The trim was blue and yellow.
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This would be a better bet for a yellow nosed 361st bird. It's the B model of the Group Commander Thomas Christensen. It's color photos of his later D model that have caused all the speculation on the blue camo.
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One of a series of color photos taken of Lou IV and 3 other 51s of the 361st. They are some of the most well known wartime 51 shots out there.
The film used, the aging of the color in the images etc has lead some folks to believe that it was insignia blue or something similar used to camo the upper surfaces.
The pilot of the 2nd plane in the flight is Urban Drew, a well known 51 ace. He's stated, on many occasions that the camo was OD. I asked him myself an an airshow years ago. At this point they were flying ground support missions over Normandy and it helped to have the OD to make them harder to spot from above. Col. Christensen in Lou IV was killed on one such mission.
Again, it's the danger of using warbird photos to support a historical skin.
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As always Guppy, you have an insane amount of information. =) Thanks as always. Us lowly skinners appreciate the hard work you help us with more than I can express. =)
I completely understand what you mean about the "discussions" about the color used. I've read some that say blue was used. Others saying olive drab. I've seen mention of olive drab, with blue and yellow trim, except along the nose which was white striping over the olive drab (in the case of Bald Eagle anyway).
Ok, so if I switch to a B, then along the nose and the trim panels, would that still be blue/yellow, and on the nose it'd be a blue/yellow wedge down the sides of an OD panel?
Also, no offense meant, but there's something about the straight lines and contrast (especially the nose) that are in the Bald Eagle's paint scheme (Not to mention it's named after our national bird :aok ) that I like, so I'd prefer to stick with this one, unless you all with more knowledge think the importance of a different plane would be a large enough issue? I really want to make sure i do things properly and repectfully enough. =)
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Unless I am wrong the "Bald Eagle" was never on a P-51D. It was a P-51B scheme that the owner of that plane like so much he put on his D model. So before you go through all the trouble of doing that skin on a D please make sure it is historically accurate.
Don't get me wrong I hope it is a D model as its a neat scheme.
See the following for more pics of it.
1st Pic (http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/040901-F-0000C-001.jpg)
2nd Pic (http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/060525-F-2295B-943.jpg)
3rd Pic (http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/060525-F-2295B-242.jpg)
and of course Mustangsmustangs.com (http://www.mustangsmustangs.net/p-51/survivors/pages/44-73029.shtml)
Cheers
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Originally posted by Knite
As always Guppy, you have an insane amount of information. =) Thanks as always. Us lowly skinners appreciate the hard work you help us with more than I can express. =)
I completely understand what you mean about the "discussions" about the color used. I've read some that say blue was used. Others saying olive drab. I've seen mention of olive drab, with blue and yellow trim, except along the nose which was white striping over the olive drab (in the case of Bald Eagle anyway).
Ok, so if I switch to a B, then along the nose and the trim panels, would that still be blue/yellow, and on the nose it'd be a blue/yellow wedge down the sides of an OD panel?
Also, no offense meant, but there's something about the straight lines and contrast (especially the nose) that are in the Bald Eagle's paint scheme (Not to mention it's named after our national bird :aok ) that I like, so I'd prefer to stick with this one, unless you all with more knowledge think the importance of a different plane would be a large enough issue? I really want to make sure i do things properly and repectfully enough. =)
No prob by me Knite :) The more skins the merrier. I appreciate the work you gents do getting em to look so good :)
Here's a better profile of Bald Eagle showing the upper wing and tail too.
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Closer view of the profile
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Originally posted by Guppy35
No prob by me Knite :) The more skins the merrier. I appreciate the work you gents do getting em to look so good :)
Here's a better profile of Bald Eagle showing the upper wing and tail too.
Amazing. I got more information in 24 hours by you than in a couple months of occasional looking myself.
Is there any skin you're hoping that gets done that hasn't yet? I'd be more than happy to work on a skin specificially for you to try to pay you back a little bit. Doesn't have to be a P-51 either. Could be anything we have on the roster. I can't garuntee expediency of completion unfortunately, but I'd be more than happy to do a request. =)
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Dang! I really like that skin....Stupid non historically accurate paint jobs =(
Actually... that is based on a historical skin...
I have a profile of it in a book of mine somewhere... I'll see if I can dig it up.
As i recall however, it was a darker blue... but like i said... i'll see what i can find. Of course, my book may be a little off.
:aok
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The point is that the initial thought that they used blue is incorrect. The profile would be based on the initial thought (and thus incorrect as well).
They never used blue. It was always olive drab. It's just a common misconception, like the claim that the 109K4 had 2x MG151s under the cowling. Oft-quoted, but never true.
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Krusty...Any idea why olive drab was the preferred color? I mean yea, if the enemy is above you and trying to spot you its gonna be hard as hell with a paint scheme that blends into the ground, but what happens if the enemy is co alt or below you? I would think you would stick out like a sore thumb? I'd be interested to hear about how and why the army air corps went with the colors they used during the war opposed to others if you have the time to comment on it
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From what I understand, the OD mustangs were ground attackers. Late in the war they had the OD uppers because they were usually much lower than the enemy. A lot of other mustangs were BMF, but their main duty was escort/fighter/interception/etc, and they didn't have OD uppers.
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The 8th AF deployed several groups to the continent after the front line moved into Belgium and Holland. Those groups went to olive drab in anticipation of being based on the mainland. They eventually reverted to the more typical paint scheme.