Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Roscoroo on June 26, 2006, 04:53:46 PM
-
Well its that time of year again ...
Got Water ???
http://www.thermaltake.com/watercooling/cl-w0005bigwater/cl-w0005.htm (http://www.thermaltake.com/watercooling/cl-w0005bigwater/cl-w0005.htm)
And now that youve seen it and searched for price ...
http://shop4.outpost.com/product/4353135#detailed (http://shop4.outpost.com/product/4353135#detailed)
Got one for the Mrs Roo ... finally 117.00 to the front door ...
alot cheaper then the time and $$ to build another one from scratch.
This message has been brought to you by the Evil "Overclocking" mercenary squirrels...
-
That same $117 would get you half way there to a new faster motherboard and processor. :)
-
I went with the 745 last winter and havent had any trouble at all . I liked the bigger tubes, pump and dual radiators. I paid 200 for it when it was first released , but i think its come down some now
http://www.thermaltake.com/product/Liguid/DIY/cl-w0076/cl-w0076.asp
-
I have been thinking about going with a coolant setup for my current box and also installing one in the next system as well. I know it cuts down on noise itself but how much does it cut that down? I want to quiet this beast of mine down alot now that it sits in a completely tiled room and it gets loud in here with 6 80mm and 2 120mm fans going full bore.
-
Originally posted by 38ruk
I went with the 745 last winter and havent had any trouble at all . I liked the bigger tubes, pump and dual radiators. I paid 200 for it when it was first released , but i think its come down some now
http://www.thermaltake.com/product/Liguid/DIY/cl-w0076/cl-w0076.asp
So... wait a second... You don't need a clunky external unit, you just have the twin-120mm unit outside the comp?? That's pretty neat.
I think if I ever go water I'll want something like this.
-
Roo.......thanks just ordered from Frys. Just a month ago built a new system described in my signature. 4000+ runs a tad warm playing AH up to 53 C. Doing other tasks runs at 40C. Have 4 case fans 120mm, 2X92mm and one 80mm with a good thermaltake heatsync and fan. This looks easy to install.....hope it does the trick.
Thanks for the info.
-
Originally posted by Krusty
So... wait a second... You don't need a clunky external unit, you just have the twin-120mm unit outside the comp?? That's pretty neat.
I think if I ever go water I'll want something like this.
Yep Krusty , you can install everything inside expept the 240mm radiator. I personally have my pump , 120mm, and 240mm radiators sitting on my desk, but that was my choice . I like being able to put both radiators in the window to grab some below Zero winter air .
I still run all six of my case fans thou , if i wasnt overclocking i would prolly be able to get by with 3 . Even with summer ,and the 800mhz overclock, i still havent seen anything over 40c . 38
-
My only beef with the TT bigwater is the acrylic water block cap. I don't trust it. I have heard they will crack over time; I do not know this for a fact, it's just what I have read.
My brother in law is a silver smith & when I get the chance (read - when I get the urge) I will get him to build me a solid silver water block. We had discussed it before & he said the current price of silver (as of three months or so ago) would allow him to make it for around $50 worth of silver. Coin silver at that...apparently the sterling silver is more expensive...go figure.
-
mrs Roo's pc has 2 120mm fans and now on water it stays nice and cool with its mb running around 26- 30,,, its cpu is now at 28-32 (2500+ @ 2.2) i droped almost 20c from the cpu just by adding the Cheap h2o setup to it , and it droped its case temp a few degrees (it has way better case flow then my 8 yo case does)
(These temp avgs are during the Evil Heat of the day here while loaded ,,and no we dont have AC)
When 1st installing a h2o setup its best to try to lay all components flat . then fill the system and bleed it . I cheated and left her cpu fan on .. cranked it up for a good bleed and leak check .. then shut down and mounted the cpu and radiator . (She's happy now ...I might even get to play pirate ...Har )
-
Last night while in the SEA I noticed that the room temperature rises about 8 degrees when playing aces high.
Crazy.
-
reschke, you got your computer next to the toilet? All tiled room? That's either toilet, shower, or janitor closet :)
-
I've always wondered...does a Socket 478 Northwood chip count as the "P4 Prescott" they have listed as supported on that page?
-
Originally posted by OOZ662
I've always wondered...does a Socket 478 Northwood chip count as the "P4 Prescott" they have listed as supported on that page?
there sort of the same but not .. same pins ,size , ect ,,, the prescott is the one that runs hotter then hell and spends alot of its life throttled back , people doent even realize it .
-
I knew all that. I mean will a cooler rated to work with a "P4 Prescott" work with my Socket 478. I'm guessing the answer is "Yes" by your above post.
-
Originally posted by eagl
reschke, you got your computer next to the toilet? All tiled room? That's either toilet, shower, or janitor closet :)
LOL,
My whole house is ceramic tile except the bedrooms and theatre/game room. :D Pretty common here in the Islands.
-
do they make waterblocks for the video card?
also, won't having the radiator installed like they have shown just pump the hot air back into the case heating up other parts?
I'm in no hurry to go water cooled, since my processor rarely goes over 130F.
I wonder how hot the video card gets though. I don't have any kind of monitor on it and it's always seemed a design flaw to me the way they build video cards to sit below the intake fan with all the hot parts on the underside of the card.
I have a small duct from my small window AC unit that is clipped to the back of my case at the intake fan. it keeps the CPU and MB very cool (72F CPU & 76F MB right now) but the design takes the video card out of the path of the cool air.
-
Originally posted by capt. apathy
do they make waterblocks for the video card?
Yes.
Originally posted by capt. apathy
also, won't having the radiator installed like they have shown just pump the hot air back into the case heating up other parts?
My first water setup was internal with the fans drawing air through the rad and exiting the case. One BayReservoir leak caused me to move everything external. I have a car hearter core with 2 shrouded 120s sitting in an open window facing the ocean breeze. I built a box to house the BayRes and Enheim 1250 pump. It is quiet and works well but klunky if I need to get inside the tower since it is enclosed in my desk.
Originally posted by capt. apathy
I have a small duct from my small window AC unit that is clipped to the back of my case at the intake fan. it keeps the CPU and MB very cool (72F CPU & 76F MB right now) but the design takes the video card out of the path of the cool air.
Any problems with condensation?
-
OK Roos suggested Big Water Cooling kit came today. This is a lot of work. I have to tear down the motherboard to get the CPU plate off the back of it and install another cpu support plate provided by thermaltake.
I don't know if the CPU support plate will come off the ASUS AV8 Mobo. I have the athlon64 4000+ and you have to remove the existing heatsink and fan socket.
This is an all day project if you have a PC already assembled. I'll have to remove everything including the Power Supply. Remove the cards I have installed (only AGP video card) remove the mobo from the case and see if I can remove the CPU support plate from the mobo without screwing the pooch. Then...carefully install the new support plate which has various screws insulators and whatnot.......install the mobo again. Make sure I've cleaned the CPU thoroughly reinstall, then assemble the water cooling devises, after putting the water block on the CPU. Then check for leaks so I don't have to man the pumps...........reinstall the PS and plug in various components. Reinstall the Video Card.....secure the pump in place in the case, install fan and radiator, install the resevoir in a 51/2 drive bay slot, attach the hoses, fill the system with coolant...and check for leaks again.
By the way the instruction booklet is nice...in color even...except for one thing THE PICTURES ARE TO DAM SMALL! I can't see any detail in them!
Not much text mostly pictures....and small ones at that!
I'll cya in two days............maybe.
-
Originally posted by DAVENRINO
Any problems with condensation?
nope.
any condensation happens in the AC unit. from the time it leaves the AC the air is getting warmer in the duct and picking up even more heat in the case.
you only get condensation on parts that are actually colder than the air, and nothing in my case is colder than the air straight from the AC.
between the AC cooling the air and then having the PC heat it back up it actually works like a dehumidifier.
also, between the intake filter on the AC unit, and the lowered humidity in the case I get almost no dust build up at all (the lowered humidity makes the dust a lot less sticky).
-
most of the fan/heatsink socket mounts are held on with swegies .. just look at the backside for the centerpin to push out .
lay the pump on its back with the hoses pointing up ... that keeps it from airlocking. keep the resevoir higher and lay the radiator on the desk /table for the bleed runout .
it may take 3 or 4 on off cycles for the air to clear .. be paitent ...
-
Roscoroo!
Got it installed. The cpu support plate along with the two screw mount for the CPU Heatsink and fan had a sticky insulation between the plate and the mobo. The two screws were inserted into two posts that connected to the cpu support plate. I gently tapped them to loosen them, and the adhesive on the support plate and insulation started to come off. I got them off with no trouble, installed the "H" support plate and insulation and put the screws through. Mounting the waterblock was easy after installing the CPU, with a smidge of Artic Silver and an "H" bar clamp to hold the waterblock securely in place.
I had to mount the radiator and Fan on the outside back of the case which required taking the fan off the radiator and reversing it. Everything else was very easy. When I started the system it wouldn't pump because there was to much air in the system. It was easy to bleed because I had the radiator installed outside of the case. After Bleeding works great!
Running at 34 degrees C right now and the system is a lot quieter.
I Use ASUS probe and I get the CPU Fan warning all the time. I think I can disable that in the BIOs.
Anyway it was worth the trouble. I was a little leary of removing the cpu support plated from the mobo but it went better then expected. Thanks!
-
open the asus probe screen and on the 1st window theres a box next to cpu fan speed uncheck it and the beep will stop .. then either restart asus probe or reboot to get rid of the "Red " box warning .
-
Roo....did that last night. Now.....the athlon64 4000+ runs warm bordering on hot. Core voltage supposed to be 1.5v........mine is running at 1.6 and under load playing AH the temperature gets no higher then 44C which is 12C lower then it was using a good Thermaltake heatsink and fan.
Read several articles on the Clawhammer and reviews that said it runs hot.
This is cooling it nicely. Nothing pushes the CPU like AH.
Hmmmmmm..........overclocking in the future? :eek:
I could probably cool it even further by turning the speed up on the fan on the radiator.
-
its nice to have some overhead on the temp ...
well thats my secret to runing my old barton at 2.5 ghz ...(my gamer @ the Roo castle)
just beshure you keep some airflow in the case to cool the hard drives, video cards ,ect.
on this pc 3500+ ive got a second tank inline after the radiator that i plop into a small ice chest packed in ice ... (tricks of the trade ) ive been currently eyeing the freezer in the corner (again) .. but id like to get a 3700+ or better befor i go after a record attempt again. (Beware Rukie )
-
Roo
Along with the 120mm variable speed on the radiator I have an 80mm fan mounted on the side that blows into the case onto the vid card and mobo. Also have two 92mm fans installed in the front bottom of the case blowing in also. Mobo under load stays at 26C.
I have 2 gig of Corsair dual channel memory with heat spreaders on them.
Thinking........hmmmmmm...... should I or shouldn't I ! ;)
-
HEHE Roo, i still have alittle more i could go on my 3700 , i'll just wait to see what ya get 8)
-
did you read the spec sheet on the 4000+ ???
AMD # ada4000daa5bn
Max ht freq 1000 mhz
max p stat 2400 mhz
@ 85.3 watts @ 1.35 volts
its on page 20 i think of the amd white papers
The white papers in pdf (http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/30430.pdf)
this one looks like it may have the overhead i'm gonna need ... whatcha think Rukie ??
-
Roo....the 1.35v is the 4000+ SanDiego, the 1.5v is the Clawhammer.
The 4000+ is identical to the FX53 (review from Toms Hardware) in most instances.
-
so which one is the (sleeper) of overclocking i wonder ???
my 2500 mobile barton used to be the killer sleeper
my 3500+ overclocks nice but it doesnt want to go past 3 ghz i was in the 2.9 area when it started "black screening" .
-
Just OC'd this clawhammer 5%. Went from 2406 to 2520. Played offline AH for 20 mins to stress it. Temp of CPU went to 50C no higher. That's 4 to 5 C lower then when I just had the thermaltake heatsink and fan.
Whatya think...stay with the 5% OC? I don't know how much difference in performance that will make. But I think that speed makes it equal to the AthlonFX 55.
One would think that the water cooling would be better. But reading some reviews of the 4000+ Clawhammer from NewEgg most stated that the Clawhammer ran in the 50 C range with heatsink and fan.
Also read that the SanDiego runs cooler. Roo.....that would leave me to believe that the SanDiego would clock better. Lower core voltage et al.
Used CPUZ to verify the over clock. I've set it back to it's stock speed but am thinking seriously of leaving it at a 5% OC.
Gonna check some cpus to see the speed (FX and Pents) on SiSoft Sandra.
If I do go back to 5% OC will run the burnin using SiSoft Sandra to push it hard.
-
Roo the 3700+ is the 2500 barton of the 64's . Over at overclock.net , ive seen only one 4000+ reach 3ghz , and it was a suicide screen shot . The general concensus is if you want to go cheaper and overclock , the 3700 is the way to go . My neighbor has a stock fx-57 , he cant produce any of the numbers i do @3ghz . Even when im at 2.8ghz (stock fx-57 speeds ) mine still comes out on top due to the fact my memory needs to be overclocked to get to 2.8. He has a zalman water kit and cant get stable over 2915 even with an unlocked multi . The 3700 has the same core (sandeigo) as the fx-57 , their basically the same chip , the highest 3700 clock ive seen is 3.4ghz on water, and that was awhile ago .
-
yea thats kinda my 2 choices i ve been looking at a 3700 or the 4000 san
i also have to stay in the Roo budget ..(more like the Mrs Roo buget actually)
as for extreame ocing ... my homemade all aluminum water block cools off better then the copper blocks .. im gonna try to get a few more coppers to test with .
I think the copper blocks hold to much heat after they get warm vs the all aluminum .
i played with the mrs roo's pc and it hit 44c when i got to 2.4 with her barton.
I cheated and used FF XI to stress it ... scored a quick 4000H with a 9550 256 card at its under clocked stock settings 200mhz gpu 133 ram speed .
mine scores in the 5000 range w/9600pro . its to bad only one of my 512 sticks worked in her pc .. the other one went bad during the swap .. It had me boggled for 2 days and in the dog house to boot....
my 1st block i made (sorry pic sucks and the rooKids are pestering me over "Booms")
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/thumbs/301_1152071473_dcp_0019.jpg) (http://www.onpoi.net/ah/picpopup.php?ImgId=38454)
-
I have the 4000+ sandie in my game rig with a 10% overclock....no video card in it right now to give you the temps & cpu-z readings...but it has been just fine on stock HSF since march. I tried a copper TT HSF & AS-5 & my temps were higher by several degrees C than the stock aluminum one with stock T.I.M., so I agree with Roo about that.
-
ill show ya what ive got to beat (yea Rukie here it is again) 10% oc lol .. nah try pushing for near 100 % oc i got to about 75% est then crashied out after that .
i spent 3 weeks creeping up on this and had the radiator and resevoir setting in a freezer just to keep it at -5c ... it was too fast for win 98sp 1.5 and had to reset in xp .. talk about a screamer .. it 03marked thru the roof too ... kinda fun but cost me the ram about a week later .. i turned it back down to 2.5 ghz , it still lives ...
(http://s90945482.onlinehome.us/roosite/Secret%20link%20folder/XP2500@3614.jpg)
So just think what i could do with the right 64 bit cpu .. id hug it and wuv it ,,, and clock it and shock it ,,, and add lots of ice to the freezer ... along with uping its water to 3 gals again and give it lotsa shine ... (oops you guys didnt see that) i mean alchohal ... :D mad sciencetist flashback here .. muhahahahaa
ps Dont try this unless you "have the parts to lose" ... one miss step while doing this and its POP SnaPPLe .... ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzit ttttttt Crack ... powersupplys just love to go zzzztcrack on me .
-
Well, my 10% OC is on stock HSF...air, not liquid cooled radiators stuck in an ice chest full of dry ice while religious rights are performed by multiple priests, shammans, swamp princesses, druids & kennedy worshipers to keep it from dying. :D
Seriously though 3.6 is a very respectable O.C.! I wish I had your knowledge, I just started playing with O.C.'s this year. My 10% O.C. is an auto-overclock, but I did get my 4000+ sandie up to 3.0ghz; all I could do with it was look at the cpu-z screen before it went black screen on me. So, I figure if I knew what I was doing with the memory settings I could get at least 2.9 out of it stable. Esspecially if I went liquid cooled or a peltier! :O just kidding; allthough I am considering a liquid cooled system, been thinking of building my own for a couple months now; something one of a kind;)
-
actuall 2.8 on a 4000 looks like a good oc area for that cpu , as long as the temps are managable . thats about the general ocing ive seen in the oc forums .
ive thought about building a Freon cooled setup .. but the condensation is pritty much unbarable in my area . oil bath sounds good too , but well its so messy .
your fishtank may work on a standard oc .. but for pushing the 2.8 area id think its temp is to high as for it will carrie the tanks temp to the cpu .
hmmm Kennedy worshipers eh ... wonder if thats better then using Tim Currie worshipers :D
-
In my best Homer J. Simpson voice -->Tim Currie worshipers (shudders)
Remember, my fish tank is 8 feet long & 2 feet deep & 2 feet wide, unless I left the P/C on for days I don't think it would heat it up too much. I have a heater in the tank now...400 watts if I remember correctly & it has trouble getting the tank up to 79F unless the house gets up to that temp. too (my A/C fights it Is my only guess) during the winter it does ok because I usually have my heat set pretty high.
But really that is only one of my ideas, I like submersible pumps & A/C powered over the weaker lower pressure D/C pumps...like in my 360 gallon aquarium, I have four pumps each have a ten foot head; the eheim I saw listed like in eVGA's black pearl kit & others, only has a four foot head. I need a higher pressure to get creative unless there is a D/C pump out there I have yet to run across ( I have never liquid cooled a P/C ) but I have dealt with many other applications of liquid cooling & many aquariums & fish ponds. Seeing as how I'm sniffing around O.C.'ing my P/C & I like to tinker, it just makes sense to invent my own liquid cooling solution.
I have thought about A/C pumped directly into my P/C but then you have the condensation problem & Arkansas has nearly 100% humidity all the time ( high 90% is quite common ) As it stands now I am on the cusp of making a great one of a kind machine or burning one up.;)
-
Originally posted by Brenjen
I have thought about A/C pumped directly into my P/C but then you have the condensation problem & Arkansas has nearly 100% humidity all the time ( high 90% is quite common ) As it stands now I am on the cusp of making a great one of a kind machine or burning one up.;)
you will not get a condensation problem.
Air coming out of an ac unit carries less moisture than the regular room air.
Condensation only occurs when warm wet air is cooled to a point where it can't hold all of its water any more. That has already happened in the ac unit. When the air goes from the ac to the computer it is actually rising in temp, lowering the relative humidity of the air and lowering the chance of condensation.
You’d actually be more likely to get condensation on the lines running to your heat-sink on a water cooled system than with pumping air, that has already been cooled, into the case.
I've been running mine that way for 3 or 4 years and I have no condensation problems, much less dust, and none of those dirtclod buildups from moister and dust collecting in the same spot.
-
Well, I can't argue the specifics as I am not in heat & air or refrigeration by trade, but I would think you being in portland vs. my being in the south and having high humidity on a daily basis would have an adverse effect, but eh, like I said I'm no whiz when it comes to such matters. I know the air conditioner vents in my house drip water on occasion due to the humidity & condensation, and before we installed double paned windows....wow, there would be puddles on the window sills.
-
I've lived in Missouri so I know the kind of humidity you're talking about and the higher humidity in your area makes this an even better option for you
And yes you do get condensation at the AC unit (since the air is getting cooler in the AC you get condensation) but think about that for a minute.
The idea is to get the air in your case cool. You have a certain amount of moisture in your air (and yes you have much more in your air than I have here). If you were to just cool you case directly (either with water cooled or even a similar set up using actual refrigerant), and you were actually able to cool the inside of your case to below room temperature, that moisture would be forced out of the air and you'd get condensation.
But as you mentioned, the AC in your house drips water. That water doesn't just appear, the air is being cooled to a temp where it can't hold as much water and the water is being forced from the air.
Say the room your PC is in is 75-85deg with 90% relative humidity, and you hook it up so the air from your AC is ducted to your cases intake fan.
So as the air leaves the AC unit it is at 100% humidity for the temp it is at (but as far as actual amount of water in the air it is much less than in the same amount of room air, because air at that temp simply can't hold as much water).
But then it goes through the duct to your PC, picking up some heat from the rooms’ temp along the way. By the time it gets to your case it is much lower than 100%, and then in you case every single part (and any air in your case) is much hotter than this air so it starts to get warm. Hotter air can hold much more water, so the relative humidity drops even further.
Another example to consider is a de-humidifier. I'm not sure if you're familiar with how they work so I'll give you an over-view. Basically it's an AC unit that has the air path re-routed.
Your normal AC unit has 2 air paths, one takes air in from your room, passes it over the evaporator, sucking the heat out of the air, and collecting water as condensation.
The other is outside; it takes in outside air, passes it over the condenser the heat is driven from the coolant and picked up by the air, which is vented outside.
With a de-humidifier the compressor/condenser parts are the same but it simply takes air from the room, runs it through the evaporator, where it cools it, drives out the moisture (which is ran to a drain or collection pan), then instead of going back to the room it is passed to the condenser where it picks back up the heat and returns to the room at about the same temp it was taken in at but with most of the moisture removed.
By passing air through an AC and then directly into the heat of your case you are in essence making a de-humidifier. Not only will it not give you condensation problems or even increase the humidity in your case at all, it will have just the opposite effect of getting rid of any moisture problems you already have from your increased humidity (like when the increased humidity causes the dust to clump and pack itself in to places)
One more thing to consider before I get off this post that went on way longer than I intended.
Think about how dry your house get when you take cold air from outside and heat it up to 72-75 deg in the wintertime.
Cooling air causes increased relative humidity, and condensation. Cooling air and then heating it back up again greatly reduces relative humidity and makes condensation (outside of the actual ac unit) virtually impossible.
If the parts in your case are cold enough to pull condensation out of air directly from an AC unit than you have a case that is running well below 50 deg F and you don't really need to worry about cooling anything.
-
Heeh Roo that 3.6 ghz run is one for the books. I backed my sandie down to 2915 mhz for summer , no sense beating the snot out of it for 3ghz for no reason .
38
-
sniffs .. crys you know they pulled my med waiver for fuel .... so im stuck playing with pc's ... most of the squad knows ... i couldnt even back up my last win ahra .. oh well so its gonna be oc hell this fall .. i want the bloody record again but in 64 bit ... (insert evil laff here )
pm me Rukie i 'll explain it if ya wanna know my friend. frellin 2 weeks from spokane .. aurgh ... sorry guys temp thing here .. Ruk understands.
Dems , naps, and whisky thing. (runs off to chase mrs Roo .. and purrs at least we didnnnt spend 10k this year )
-
Hey Capt. Apathy thanks for the in-depth heating & air lesson! That was enlightening, too bad I'm so dense. All I remember about refrigeration is something a navy buddy of mine who was in refrigeration told me, in one of his classes they told the class, "there is no cold, only the absence of heat" & that has stuck with me over the years.
I do put the tea-pot on during the winter for two reasons, as a humidifier & I like hot mint tea in the winter lol.
I don't really understand the principles you laid out & I'm not going to pretend I do, but some of it made sense & it puts the option of ducting A/C air into my case.
So - Thanks again! :aok
-
OC'ing athlon64 4000+ Clawhammer 2520mhz. 5% OC.
Doing well temps stay below 50C. Wondering if I can find an Aluminum Waterblock for this Thermaltake Big Water.