Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on June 26, 2006, 08:12:02 PM
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...Bill and Melinda Gates foundation. Now, I've listened to people slam Gates and Microsoft for years (Primarily on his software)...but for those who read stories locally about Gates for the past 20 know he's a generous man. Looks like Warren Buffet understands that too.
Story (http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid={677259D4-F475-4F3F-AF43-EC09D3EF319F}&siteId=google)
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I heard about this the other day on the radio.
He's not only giving most of his wealth away, but he's starting to do it now, while he's still alive.
Bill Gates is man who believes that his great wealth requires great responsibility. He's leaving MS to dedicate more of his time to his charity organisation, the world's largest.
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Originally posted by Mr Big
He's not only giving most of his wealth away, but he's starting to do it now, while he's still alive.
I think he's somewhere between 70 and dead.
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Originally posted by Sandman
I think he's somewhere between 70 and dead.
We're all between "X" and dead.
He could live to be 120. Who knows?
I think it's great what he's doing.
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I heard Buffet say he wanted to give his kids "enough to do anything, but not enough so they could do nothing".
This is a worthy sentiment, but then they reported that his kids were each getting only $1 billion.
I could do a lot of nothing with $1 billion.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I heard Buffet say he wanted to give his kids "enough to do anything, but not enough so they could do nothing".
This is a worthy sentiment, but then they reported that his kids were each getting only $1 billion.
I could do a lot of nothing with $1 billion.
Yeah. But think of how many billions he has. The majority of it is not being left to his family.
But you're right, 1 billion dollars is instant "do nothing" time in my book.
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In the grand tradition of Carnegie, Vanderbilt and Rockefeller... other great men if judged only by their contributions.
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I finished reading his biography just a few days ago....
When his daughter lived in DC, she couldn't afford a new television. It took pleadings from one of Buffet's old friends, the former owner of the Washington Post, before he sprang for the new TV(he was worth only a couple hundred million at the time, but, then again, TVs were cheaper too). All the while she lived in a tiny apartment, with barely enough room to sit down in the kitchen.
For years now, he's been telling his children not to expect a dime. In his later years, he relented and said he'd give thim something (at the time of publication, I believe it was somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 million each).
A billion to each heir sounds extremely out of character. Either he's starting to lose it, or he's stopped caring. This is a man who still lives in the same home he purchased in 1956 for $31,000. A man who thought that a corporate jet was the biggest, most indulgent excess of big business (although he lived to greatly enjoy this). He's a guy who knows the value of a dollar better than anyone, even those who don't have that dollar. To him, it was never: 'what can a buck get me today', it was: 'what can that buck grow into over 20 years.'
I applaud his contributions. So what if he lived to be 75 before giving significant portions of his massive fortune away. He's still doing it, and in doing so, will make a million times more of a difference than the average detractor that sits and whines about how criminal it is for a single man to amass so much.
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I suspect that there are men right here on this BBS that are every bit as generous as Mr. Buffet. They're simply not as rich.
I salute them and all they do.
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Originally posted by Mr Big
I heard about this the other day on the radio.
He's not only giving most of his wealth away, but he's starting to do it now, while he's still alive.
Bill Gates is man who believes that his great wealth requires great responsibility. He's leaving MS to dedicate more of his time to his charity organisation, the world's largest.
You know, I didn't think that reading The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged would change me. But it really didn't. It just made me realize what fools all of you are. Just read over the things you've said, if you've realized what you've actually said, you might be surprised.
But then again, reading those books possibly did change me. You have no idea how many times a day I catch myself thinking rediculous things that I don't want to think.
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ok... so he's giving the bucks to corporate philanthropies, rather than letting the government get it via the death tax.
wake up folks.
in fine corporate style, with a beautiful spin all the chumps will buy..
he's just cutting out the middleman.
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Originally posted by Sandman
I suspect that there are men right here on this BBS that are every bit as generous as Mr. Buffet. They're simply not as rich.
I salute them and all they do.
Of course there are. IN fact, there are men here who are more generous, far more generous...
However, I just don't see the point in trying so hard to find an issue with what he's doing and how.
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Because, "there are men here who are more generous, far more generous."
...and it's not newsworthy. ;)
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Billionaires are odd birds. But they are also the kind of folks that, if all there money was taken away, they have the creative resources to earn it all back...and then some.
Like MiniD said, its one thing to remember them for what they leave behind...tis another to see how they lived their life.
You can't buy your way into heaven. But its enjoyable seeing em try!
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I don't believe in the death tax, aka the estate tax.
If I had that kind of money, I'd give it all away too, just to keep sticky-fingered politicos from getting control of it. That way, I could at least have some control over the type of charities or political movements that get it.
NRA, Ducks Unlimited, Society for the Preservation of Hardwood Forests, Society for the Preservation of Eskimo Culture, Fox News, National Review...
You know...really worthy causes.
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Philanthropies are very interesting corporate entities.
They don't just subsidize hospitals and kids.. they subsidize political organizations. education. outfits like Ford Foundation finance the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund, the ACLU, and pay for all that hideous 'modern art' we have laying around our city like giant turds.
Oh, yes.. say the magic word "I gave my billions to charity".. oh, aren't you just so kind!
I'd like to see the money go killing the defecit and alternative fuel research and development... not into the tabulated political draw accounts and discretionary 'ad-hoc action' funds the corporate boards of directors sit on.
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Originally posted by Shuckins
Ducks Unlimited
Oh sure, appeal to MiniD's interests
:cool:
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
You know, I didn't think that reading The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged would change me. But it really didn't. It just made me realize what fools all of you are. Just read over the things you've said, if you've realized what you've actually said, you might be surprised.
But then again, reading those books possibly did change me. You have no idea how many times a day I catch myself thinking rediculous things that I don't want to think.
So, what's your point again?
1. "we" are all fools
2. some books made you realize something
3. "we" have no idea how many times "you catch yourself thinking dumb things.
Interesting how you have managed to stay completely off topic and yet added nothing at all to the discussion. WTG :aok
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Had you read the books, you would have caught the point.
How many people here believe that a rich person should give money to such-and-such because it is the right thing to do?
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Had you read the books, you would have caught the point.
How many people here believe that a rich person should give money to such-and-such because it is the right thing to do?
Maybe instead of assuming that everyone has read the same books that you have, you should have tried to make some kind of point of your own.
As it is, you have said nothing.
Who writes books anyway? Are you saying that because someone wrote an actual book, that they are somehow elevated to greatness?
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Originally posted by Sandman
I suspect that there are men right here on this BBS that are every bit as generous as Mr. Buffet. They're simply not as rich.
I salute them and all they do.
Do you salute Buffet and "all" that he does too?
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But come on guys charity doesn't work. People just won't help others. We need the government to confiscate and redistribute wealth or else society will collapse.
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Funked is right, except you should send your money to ME!
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If they keep their money, they are greedy, corrupt, and self-centered corporate vampires intent on manipulating the government to suit their capitalistic purposes.
If they give it all away, they are greedy, corrupt, and self-centered corporate vampires intent on keeping their money out of the hands of our compassionate and philanthropic government and placing these funds under the control of dangerous left-wing political entities and self-serving corporate shadow accounts.
Sheesh.
Sometimes, a gift is simply a gift.
It's their money. If they want to pile it up in the street and BURN it that's their right.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I heard Buffet say he wanted to give his kids "enough to do anything, but not enough so they could do nothing".
This is a worthy sentiment, but then they reported that his kids were each getting only $1 billion.
I could do a lot of nothing with $1 billion.
David Gilmour is doing the same thing:
"He has never liked ostentatious giving, the kind of parties at which people shake their diamonds at each other in a good cause. "Those evenings where you go out with your mates and have a good time and put £50 in a bin at the end do nothing to raise money or awareness. Far more would be achieved if the two richest people in the room just put their hands in their pockets.
"I would like to see the 464 people above me on the rich list give more. When you are worth £500 million, you could give £400 million away and not notice it." Personally, he adds, he would love to "drop off the end" of that list. "I don't feel comfortable there, it doesn't feel like me. My intention is to pretty much get rid of my wealth by the time I go." This may be bad news for his children - eight of them from two marriages - but he does not want them to have "expectations" of riches. "Children who are given money are emasculated. It's a big disincentive to making your own way in life and I want my children to have the satisfaction that I have had from making my own way." Each of his children can expect a one-bedroom flat and any amount of advice and non-financial support, but they have to earn their own money.
When he is not putting together one of his solo concerts, Gilmour spends his time cooking and playing with his younger children at their Sussex home. Not for him, any longer, the excesses that traditionally come with the rock star life and that caused the downfall of Syd Barrett, the founding genius of Pink Floyd.
"I've seen a lot of people go off the rails," he says, "because you get into a tiny community where all the things that are frowned on in other communities are smiled on. Everyone takes drugs and carouses their way around the world and gets loved for it."
In his time, he has enjoyed all the toys that come with extreme wealth - cars, planes, houses he rarely visits. Now, he has pared his life but he is not making out that he wears a hair vest under his loose-fitting shirt. "I'm not going for saintliness," he says. "I have every intention of enjoying my own wealth. But I don't want to hand it on to my children."
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Originally posted by Saintaw
Funked is right, except you should send your money to ME!
you would only misspend it on cigars, alcohol and loose women.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Philanthropies are very interesting corporate entities.
They don't just subsidize hospitals and kids.. they subsidize political organizations. education. outfits like Ford Foundation finance the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund, the ACLU, and pay for all that hideous 'modern art' we have laying around our city like giant turds.
Oh, yes.. say the magic word "I gave my billions to charity".. oh, aren't you just so kind!
I'd like to see the money go killing the defecit and alternative fuel research and development... not into the tabulated political draw accounts and discretionary 'ad-hoc action' funds the corporate boards of directors sit on.
It doesn't matter what you want. It's not your money. Besides what makes you think this administration or any other would spend it as you see fit?
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Originally posted by storch
you would only misspend it on cigars, alcohol and loose women.
Exactly! As far as I'm concerned... nothing else is worth it. (You should add "wings" to that list.)
Seriously: I think manking already has a hard time doing something genuinely generous on a unit per unit basis... I certainly don't think men, as a society, can do this without some kind of profit.
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Originally posted by storch
you would only misspend it on cigars, alcohol and loose women.
Now now, who says that is misspending it?
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How do i get on the donation list?
i only need 500000 dollar
than i can become an airline pilot
pls Bill chap mate read this.
i love ur windows XP
:)
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Originally posted by Shifty
It doesn't matter what you want. It's not your money. Besides what makes you think this administration or any other would spend it as you see fit?
I'm pointing out that dumping wealth into philanthropys is just cutting the taxman out. With the usual spin, the public eats the practice up as a good thing; and the generosity of the billionaire is touted, kudos all around for him.
In fact it's just putting the wealth outside of the corrupt governments reach.. not a bad thing right? But.. just who's monkey is the government anyway? It sure ain't ours. Like I said.. big business is just taking care of it's corporate self; they propagandize it and we eat it up as 'generosity'. I get a chuckle out of it because it's just a neat corporate way for the captains of industry to screw their own monkey. Shifty, yer absolutely right.. it's thier money, and thier monkey.
Not so long ago the subject came around to 'how much will it take to cure world hunger'? Last estimate I heard was 75 billion. Chump change for these guys.
Odd... seems to be a lotta people still starving in this world. Despite the 'philanthropies'.
But hey, Shifty; you wanna pin a medal on Gates or his new pal Buffet, you go right ahead.
Knock yerself out. Be careful though.. they might try to bend yah over like they do with the monkey. LOL!
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Originally posted by Hangtime
But hey, Shifty; you wanna pin a medal on Gates or his new pal Buffet, you go right ahead.
Knock yerself out. Be careful though.. they might try to bend yah over like they do with the monkey. LOL!
I never said anything about pinning a medal on anybody. It's Buffets money, he can do with it what he wants is my point. If he can donate it without it getting in the hands of the IRS more power to him. If you trust the IRS with it, dont worry about getting bent over like the monkey.... You are the monkey.
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naw shifty.. we're just the little monkies. Surely you know how it works.. the biggest monkey smacks around the smaller monkey next to him.. after getting his beating, he takes it out on the next smallest monkey.
the corporations monkey will be by to pay us a visit any time now.
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Something tells me Hangtime has difficulty with people who become very successful in this nation that allows even the poorest to become the wealthiest. I bet Hang hates the color green...
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Yep.. yer still spouting the same old crap Rip. Seems the PC crowd just can't wrap their minds around the concept of truth.
Yes, you can love America and hate the corporate control of it. Yes, you can support the troops and still criticize the lack of planning and cause of the war. Yes, you can applaud the efforts of the wealthy to share the wealth and point out the self-serving motivation for it. Yes, you can be a good republican and still hate and speak out against the game plan your party adopted.
Of course, in your playbook, the truth is always inconvienent, unpatriotic or marginalized because it fogs the mirror.
You may return to your golf-clap for the generous philanthropists. Say.. how many people died today from corporate greed?
Same or more than yesterday?
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Okay Hang.
Honest question. One thing I can never figure out about the people that hate corporations. Do you know of a better system? Do you realize that almost everything you own, enjoy, or desire is made by a corporation. The car you drive, the materials used to build your home, the clothes you wear, the food you eat, the PC you use on this board?
Of course if they supply the world with the things the world wants they are going to get rich. But who else is going to do it? Some government? I can see where people are concerned about corporate influnce on government. I still dont want a goverment that supplys us with our needs , and it becomes the corporation.
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What happened to the American middle class.. you know, the folks that worked for the corporations.. making those products. Their Pensions. their Health Benefits.
What happened to them? The Corporations moved their jobs where?
Big Oil got how many billions in tax relief? How many billions in subsidies?
While they raked in the biggest profits in corporate history... the government (their pet monkey) slapped a 100% tarrif on imported fuel made from orgainics. (brazil).
Do a bit of checking on your own.. make your own decisions.
remember.. the government is supposed to be OUR Monkey.. supposed to be protecting the PEOPLE, supposed to be representing US..
Who do they protect? Who do they REALLY represent?
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Hang I don't know what the hell has happened to you in the last year or so.
I only know I approve of it. You're now one of the few Americans I know of who are living up to my image of a 'true one'.
Oddly enough, so's Rip, but in a different fashion. Hard one to figure out.
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Originally posted by Shifty
Okay Hang.
Honest question. One thing I can never figure out about the people that hate corporations. Do you know of a better system? Do you realize that almost everything you own, enjoy, or desire is made by a corporation. The car you drive, the materials used to build your home, the clothes you wear, the food you eat, the PC you use on this board?
Of course if they supply the world with the things the world wants they are going to get rich. But who else is going to do it? Some government? I can see where people are concerned about corporate influnce on government. I still dont want a goverment that supplys us with our needs , and it becomes the corporation.
Corporations didn't even exist in their present state until the 1860s, when the concept of a fictional person was created.
Since that time, it's been a systematic tilt of the balance of power. Once you give a fictional entity inalienable rights, and powers of transferring ownership without some of the liabilities that a real individual would have - that becomes the problem. It's been the erosion of liabilities as well and their abilities to hold states hostage for jobs, demanding at times insane tax breaks. Corporations still need things like power and roads, and an educated workforce to draw from - but they all move money offshore and do everything possible to shirk responsibility from what they draw from the public good.
Warren Buffet has a lot to say on this. He talks about how the Feds have let companies extort people way too far, and how major revisions in tax laws are needed to redress the issues. So do people like Lou Dobbs on CNN. So does the guy who owns CostCo. CostCo's CEO talks about why the Waltons top the Fortune top 20, and how they systematically free ride on the public causing market disruption. CostCo gives health insurance and a decent wage to its employees, and average tenure is 4 years. Average tenure of an employee at Wal-Mart is 4 months.
Capitalism isn't broken, but the current set of laws in support of our version of it are. Lobbys and 529s have corrupted the representational form of government.
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Well maybe I've got it all wrong. I'm in the lower middle class. I got all the problems that go with it. Paycheck to paycheck living, no health insurance , little to no savings. However I blame my problems on myself , and look to myself for a way to a better life.
I do agree with you 100% on one statement hang. I too belive the government should belong to us, the citizens.:aok
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my $.02 none of us need more money. some of us need to be better with the money we have. if we take the first dime out of every dollar we earn and systematically save it in time you will appreciate the power of compound interest working in your favor. if a car payment is $500 per month, why not drive an inexpensive but paid for model and make the car payments to yourself? when new car time rolls around you can pay cash and continue to make car payments. It's forming a habit and it's never too late to begin it. it just takes a little discipline, that's all. any idiot can do I know, I'm living proof.
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Originally posted by storch
my $.02 none of us need more money. some of us need to be better with the money we have. if we take the first dime out of every dollar we earn and systematically save it in time you will appreciate the power of compound interest working in your favor. if a car payment is $500 per month, why not drive an inexpensive but paid for model and make the car payments to yourself? when new car time rolls around you can pay cash and continue to make car payments. It's forming a habit and it's never too late to begin it. it just takes a little discipline, that's all. any idiot can do I know, I'm living proof.
Exactly! Good post Storch.
Using the car scenario, I drove beaters for 25 years before I paid cash for my first new car. (Saved my money for several years so I could pay cash). One thing consistent about Americans and these new generations hitting the work force is that debt is high because they over-spend and want instant gratification. IMO, alot of this is due to commercialism, marketing, media.
My father had a rule he lived by: "If you can't pay for it with cash, then you don't need it." Well, that's true to a point..regarding toys that we all want to own. Of course when I was young, I didn't listen to Dad. I got in credit card debt trouble at age 20 and by age 24 I got myself out of debt. I learned the hard way, but now I live by my father's rule with the exception of our house, which is on a 15 year loan. (During my fathers days, you could pay cash for a house, that's nearly impossible to do these days with the real estate market.) I've saved my money and invested wisely, and I didn't figure this crap out on my own, I had a good father that managed his finances well, and nurtured me to manage mine as well. So it all comes back to nurturing! :)
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Your right Storch.
Just don't let anybody in the AVA know I said it.;)
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Einstein once observed on the (Tax) code that it's the only thing he ever encountered that was thoroughly impenetrable to the human mind.
Tax the corporation, not the middleclass citizen.
6 figures would be a good limit too. You make more than that..... you get taxed, if you make less your taxes are still in the form of sales and registration and tolls and wine and gas. We really need more basic tax codes.
I think most people are angry that the govement countinaly favors corporations over the intrests of the poor and middle class. It's not anger at the idea of corporations, just the implementation.
And I don't applaude Gates for doing what any good person would. Haveing so much money and not helping people would be a 'sin'. Let's see what he does with his time and money in ten years--I might applaude then, but still not for the way in which he won his fortune.
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I see that class envy is so heavily entrenched in certain groups in our society that they find it difficult to overcome it long enough to say "Well Done" to a rich philanthropist who just gave away enough money to buy Canada.
Oh...by the way...what, if anything, did Bill Gates do that was illegal? What? Insist that people that used his software in their computers pay for the privilege? Software that his personal company legally developed and patented?
Neither the poor, the middle class, nor the rich have a monopoly on virtue. I've known poor people who were exceedingly generous and others who wouldn't pull you out of a burning car. I've known rich who were were unselfishly generous and others who wouldn't spend a dime on anyone, including themselves.
If they've earned their money legally, they can wipe their buts with it for all I care.
Outsourcing of jobs has many causes, not the least of which was the rapid rise in labor costs in the United States. Another would be need of American corporations to remain competitive on the global market...which would be impossible if they refused to outsource some of their production.
If they don't remain competitive, they go under...pure and simple.
Regards, Shuckins
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kitty, I own a business people pay me for finished products and services. if the gov't taxed me (my business), can you guess what would happen to the cost of my product and services?
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Originally posted by BluKitty
Tax the corporation, not the middleclass citizen.
6 figures would be a good limit too. You make more than that..... you get taxed, if you make less your taxes are still in the form of sales and registration and tolls and wine and gas. We really need more basic tax codes.
I think most people are angry that the govement countinaly favors corporations over the intrests of the poor and middle class. It's not anger at the idea of corporations, just the implementation.
Here's my super-simple impression about those who complain about tax cuts and the like...
We give tax breaks to....ready? THOSE WHO PAY TAXES.
Yet, the poor DO NOT PAY TAXES
So, the poor got jealous that those who pay in get something back for their efforts. So now we have "earned income credit" and all these other foolish giveaways. Why? Because, gosh darnit, its not fair that those people who pay the majority of the tax burnden ever get a little bit back < pouty look >
Have you seen the hoops the corporations have to jump through to exist? Between EPA, local/state statues, taxations, mill rates, etc etc...and people *wonder* why these guys are looking to setup shop elsewhere where the cost of doing business isnt so punitive?
Rant off.
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can anybody show me the law that states I'm supposed to be paying taxes?
"The term employee includes an officer, employee, or elected official of the United States, a State, or ay political subdivision thereof, or the District of Columbia, or any agency or instrumentality of any one or more of the foregoing. The term employee also includes an officer of a corporation."
(US Tax Code)
Sounds like government employees and corporate officers are supposed to be paying the taxes.
The tax man strode into most American lives after the bombing of Pearl Harbor. To raise a war chest, income taxes - once reserved for the rich - were extended to all Americans for the first time in history. The expanded tax was supposed to be temporary, ending with the war.
The income tax was so new, that to explain it, the government commissioned a Disney film starring citizen Donald Duck. It made filing returns look easy for the millions of new taxpayers and promoted the benefit of withholding.
Roger Pilon, who studies tax policy at the Washington-based Cato Institute, which advocates smaller government, isn't surprised about the protest, especially among small business owners.
"These people, as businessmen, are being asked not only to pay the taxes for their employees and for themselves, but to collect the taxes," he says. "They are in effect deputized as agents of the government, and they are not being paid for that."
Put yourself in the position of the employers, Pilon says. "They see the government raining down upon them, one regulation after another and one tax after another."
Joe Banister, Thompson's accountant, is somewhat of a hero in the movement.
Banister, equipped with badge and gun, once investigated tax cheats as a criminal investigator for the IRS -- until he started reading the tax code. "At the end of my third year, I began to investigate the claims that were made by people who said that the income tax is not mandatory for all Americans to pay."
Eventually, Banister sent a report of his findings to his superiors, questioning even the constitutionality of the IRS itself. The agency wrote back and suggested he resign.
"It seems to be kind of a cultural thing there," Banister says. "Don't ask any questions. Just do your job. Mind your own business."
He doesn't advise clients not to pay taxes, he says. "I tell them that the IRS has ruined people's lives and that it's risky to do something other than what the IRS expects," he says.
Banister is one of a handful of IRS agents who could be said to have gone over to the other side.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/04/02/60II/main283404.shtml
logic dictates we must pay taxes. logic dictates that the current tax code and it's enforcement is busted.
Whats the next logical step.....
anybody?
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with that much money, you could get two girls at the same time, man...
(http://www.the-reel-mccoy.com/movies/1999/images/officespace_lawrence.jpg)
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hang, with regard to taxes it should be obvious to all that the gov't needs to collect taxes. especially since we live in a country which actually renders pretty good returns for our tax dollar when compared to just about everyone else. do they squander a great deal of our money, yup youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuu betcha'. I will still cheerfully pay my fair share and take my representatives to account when I learn of a screwup. my view on the question of taxation is to apply the Jesus paradigm which can be found in Matthew 22: 15-22. to paraphrase, "render unto caesar that which is caesar's".
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both gates and buffet started on third base to hit their home runs. They really have no idea of how any of us here live. They were rich before they even started.
They are both liberals but are giving away their money so that they won't pay the taxes. If government is so right and taxes are so right then there should be no tax break for charity.... all charity would be government redistributing the wealth... what arrogance of these billionaires to think that they know more about what people need than the government.
Why don't they just give a few billion more on their taxes?
lazs