Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: porkfrog on June 27, 2006, 09:13:30 PM
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ok, i tried searching the BB for topics covering this and only was given 1 return. so...
What should I set my convergences for for the following planes-
Any .50 set? I have the JUG set at 450, the 6 gun ones at 350.
4 20mm sets. I have those set at 400.
Any AXIS plane with 20s and 7mm. On the Zero I have the 20s set at 300 and the little pea shooters set to 200.
Any thoughts here O' wise and wicked???
-JoLLY
PigsontheWing.org
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It really depends on your flying style and whether you like to saddle up or boom and zoom. Saddle up set shorter conv and BnZ set longer. Personally I set 50's between 4 and 500 and cannons from 250 to 400 depending on the speed of the plane I'm flying.:aok
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convergence is all on pilot preference. it usually depends on the distance that you typically engage a target. for me, i usually try to get within 200 to 400 before i shoot. so my convergence varies that much depending on what im flying. if you use something that has guns that are close together like a P38, you can set them out farther. play with em, try a few and see what works best for U.
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lmao i set my convergence for every plane at 300 just because i like to be nice right an close when i blow there head off. if i were try 300 for anything it works great.
catfish6
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You should fly a bit and take note of what distance you most often shoot at. Once you find that distance, set your convergence at that distance NO MATTER what kind of gun, or where its mounted. Set the convergence for what distance you shoot, not the type of gun you are shooting.
FWIW I set everything at 300.
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I checked today and I have all mine set at 300 except for the CHOG set at 400 of which I bnz more in, and the jug I had set at 500 for some odd reason. I think I had the jug set for killin bombers. So I guess so far the consensus is 300 at least for furballin thats a common number your gonna get from vets. Although I do set my taters at 200 in all my tater chunkin planes. The only thing is if you seem to be doing many reversals you may want to set it a litlle further out to compensate for the runnin factor of the bnz guy. Nothing better than getting the overshoot and popping the guy at 600 away and climbing!:aok
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Originally posted by Grits
You should fly a bit and take note of what distance you most often shoot at. Once you find that distance, set your convergence at that distance NO MATTER what kind of gun, or where its mounted. Set the convergence for what distance you shoot, not the type of gun you are shooting.
FWIW I set everything at 300.
This is deep wisdom, I agree 100%.
The point of convergence is to get the most bullets on the targeted spot as possible. It makes no sense to set convregence out to a distance you cant get a hit at, and it makes no sense to set it so your hits are spread out instead of concentrated (which is what happens when you're inside or outside the convergence range).
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i have mine set at 650 , so i can ping the runnin Nancys.
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I agree with the opinions stated above with one exception.
The Zero cannons are unique in that they have a lower muzzle velocity and drop dramatically once the round leaves the barrel. Since a Zero is best at turn and burn fighting, this cannon shell drop makes deflection shooting much more difficult. Set the cannon convergence at the maximum range. This elevates the cannons and will allow you to get hits without burying the target too far below the nose on deflection shots.
This little tip has allowed several players to start getting kills in a Zero, where before they were ready to give up flying the plane.
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see quote above.:t
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Fly a P-38, no need to worry about convergence.
ack-ack
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Yeah, up in the Bojosphere, there's nothing to shoot at anyway. :rolleyes:
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With american iron (.50 cal, mostly BnZ tactics), I find 400 yds for all guns perfect (for me) for leading the breaking turns. Also good for buff hunting when properly diving from high 3 or 9.
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Any plane with all mg's 400
Any plane with all cannons 400
Planes with mg's and cannons.
mg's 400
cannons 275
I have a fire primary button, and a fire all button programmed on my stick.
I like to scare them with the mg's since there's more ammo to burn, and then kill them with the cannons when they break and get in close.
Sometimes, you can get kills with only the mg's if your lucky.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Fly a P-38, no need to worry about convergence.
ack-ack
Kinda true.
Convergence in AH has TWO components, horizontal and vertical. Planes with tightly grouped guns, like the 38 and Mossy, dont have much to fear from lateral dispersion....since the guns start out close together and wont spread much beyond that inside guns range.
But, they DO have to worry about the vertical component to some degree. When shooting at the same target...say a bullseye at 400 meters...the tight grouping of hits will be visbly higher if you set convergence at 600 iinstead of 300. you can adjust to wherever the grouping will be, but it WILL be different depending on your setting.
ANother component of the convergence question is the convergence in TIME as opposed to space. The distance setting controls where the bullets hit in SPACE, but slower projectiles will get to the right spot LATER than the faster ones -- so one group or the other will miss.
I'm thinking thats why the higher setting for the Zero's slower rounds helps with hits -- it raises the impact point, so when the target MOVES PAST the bullet impact point on a snapshot the cannons' slower rounds arrive a llittle above that spot and hit the target farther along tis path.
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Interesting, I prefer 250 myself for most wing guns, with a few exceptions. I like the firepower at closer ranges.
Note regarding the 50s. This, imho, is the cause of many of the complaints of the 50 caliber in AH: Guys setting conv to 400+ and then complaining of lack of firepower. I have no proof, but its a hunch.
Its true the farther convs are easier for shooting at a running con, say out to 600-800, but you will pay a price closer in.
In the end, hey, if it works for you dont change it. We all have our own ways.
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So, when you set convergence in real life and in AH, are the guns being adjusted to point higher or lowere, or just the sight?
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The further out the convergence is set, the higher the angle of the gun will be, as opposed to sitting flat. It has to lob the shells out to the point you want. Set too far away, and you can shoot over a target directly in front of you. The yaw positioning of the gun also changes angles slightly to make the gun point straight at where you want the shells to drop. In AH convergence is usually set in pairs, so the paired guns get mirrored convergence angles.
My convergence on all aircraft is 225. Doesn't matter wing or nose mounted. I always shoot from the same distance no matter what I'm flying, and it's usually the moment D400 becomes D200. I like to be really really close. It works for me.
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So then there are two conv points in the vert? One close and one at the convergence point?
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200 on everything 'cept il2 for me and buffs. i don't like to shoot until 400. i read on bbs that 200 will work to 400. dunno if its a fact, but i've had no probs with 200.
hap
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Wow. Thanks for all the responses everyone. Seems that while we all have our certain tastes go, many of you think similarly. However it brings up a couple questions more.
Are the guns actually modeled that accurately concerning ballistics? Mainly, muzzle velocity. Meaning, a little 7.62 round hitting you at 400m fired in an AtA environment is liable to do little damage. Yes, that same round fire by a foot solder would sit you down but dynamically I would question the effectiveness of said round at distance in AtA action. Thats why I thought maybe if setting my mg's in the Zero to the shortest allowable convergence would in effect help them do more significant damage. But I wasnt sure about the ballistics modeling.
Which in turn brings up the cannon question. Compared to any mg round, a 20mm cannon round is VERY slow. I've actually fired a Ma' Duece and a 20, both deck mounted on a ship. The difference is considerable. One is like firing a marble from a slingshot vs. a baseball from the same slingshot. So do the Zero cannons drop faster in AH vs the f4uC cannons? If so, how do I find out the muzzle velocities for each of the different in-game cannons?
I'd really like to get good in a Zero and plan on flying one a lot this next few months so getting my guns figured out is muy importante.
JoLLY
PigsontheWing.org
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HT says ballistics are modelled, at least as far as energy goes. So distance makes a difference.
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TYVM
by the way, i enjoy both of your qoutes. good stuff.
-JoLLY
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Originally posted by BugsBunny
So then there are two conv points in the vert? One close and one at the convergence point?
No, there's only 1 point you can set within the game.
However that single point controls both the yaw and pitch of the gun. Moving the convergence point farther away within Aces High will increase the pitch of the gun upwards, and the yaw will decrease, becoming closer to being centered with the fusalage.
When you shorten your convergence, the opposite happens. The guns start to flatten out, and the angle they point inwards increases.
I started the game at 350-400 and used that for awhile. I learned some ACM, and as I got better, I learned alittle patience too. I cut my convergence way back, and didn't start shooting anymore until d200. I get more kills now, so, it works for me.
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
HT says ballistics are modelled, at least as far as energy goes. So distance makes a difference.
They also have a drag coeficient from each round, that is why the MG151 seems to have lower velocity than the Hispano. What you have is roughly equal muzzle velocity, but the minen shells have flat broad noses and lose the velocity quickly compared to the Hispano.
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And of course the plane's energy counts as well, ample demonstration when you crawl up the 6 of a set of B-17s:)
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try setting your cannons 100 further out then your MG's
Works for me
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set convergence at max..start firing at 1.5 times said guns convergence..pull up up hard and pray
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No matter what the convergence if you wait until the enemy plane fills your windscreen, he's goin down. Eric said it first!:aok
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Originally posted by porkfrog
So do the Zero cannons drop faster in AH vs the f4uC cannons? If so, how do I find out the muzzle velocities for each of the different in-game cannons?
Historically and in AH, the Zero's Oerlikon cannon are lower in velocity than the Hispanos and even the MG151s. Trajectory-wise I would compare them with the 30mm cannons found on the other AH planes.
There are several websites where the ballistics of the different cannon and machine guns are listed.
Try this one to get started:
http://www.netaces.org/ahmain/siteframe2.html#title
On the positive side, once you learn to hit with the Zero's 20s everything else feels like your shooting lasers.
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I set everything to 300...
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My two cents. I set everything as far out as it will go. Since none of my rounds will travel outside the wingspan of the opposing aircraft until they are beyond 1200-1600m, I can hit (allowing for ballistic drop, etc.) an aircraft reasonably consistantly at 600-800 (and have hit at 1.2k), even timing a bandit jinking to avoid my shots. I don't always get a kill, but usually one or two hits will cause him to manuever more, even turn to allow me to close with him. If its a cannon round, then sometimes he's a cripple or kill right then.
Close range with far out convergence is a little disadvantageous, and you get the catastrophic kill less often, but because I'm much closer, I usually can get at least one good hit in without him being in the 'convergent point'. Another turn or pass, and I can often make the kill.
I want to be able to hit my opponent with at least one round at any distance. Even the psychological impact is a big help in winning the fight.
For me, being a fairly good aim at distance, and with deflection snapshots, I think I get my share with convergence set out far.
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In the P40E I set it to 225/250/275. I was curious as to whether the distance indicator was setup so that D300 shows whenever the plane is between 201 and 300 out ...... or between 300 and 400 out.
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Originally posted by smash
In the P40E I set it to 225/250/275. I was curious as to whether the distance indicator was setup so that D300 shows whenever the plane is between 201 and 300 out ...... or between 300 and 400 out.
The visible ICON distances are rounded to the nearest marker.
So, "400" means somewhere between 301 and 500, "200" is between 101 and 300, "0" is between collision and 100.
TO hit at convergence 300, then, you'd need to shoot just as the marker moves from 400 to 200.
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1750 to 2249 as 2.0K
1250 to 1749 as 1.5K
1000 to 1249 as 1.0K
900 to 999 as 1000
700 to 899 as 800
500 to 699 as 600
300 to 499 as 400
100 to 299 as 200
0 to 99 as 0.
edit: correct me if I'm wrong... anyone at HTC? ...?