Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Holden McGroin on June 28, 2006, 09:38:24 PM
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Roger Penske to Get Smart
DETROIT (Reuters) - DaimlerChrysler AG said on Wednesday it will launch its two-seater Smart minicar in the United States in early 2008, as fuel prices shift consumers' attention to more economical vehicles.
The world's fifth-biggest carmaker said it had selected UnitedAuto Group as its exclusive distributor for the quirky car, which is already established in European markets.
(http://class.ee.iastate.edu/rmander/BobAnderson/Photos/2001-09%20Med%20Cruise/Images%20Rome/Rome-10%20Smart%20Car.JPG)
The sticker price of the car, which will be marketed for its hip, urban appeal, will be less than $15,000, Roger Penske, UnitedAuto's chief executive, said during a news conference. A convertible version will also be available.
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It needs a roll cage lol
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Imagine getting T-boned in that thing. :confused:
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looks dangerous
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The Convertible...
(http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/advice/specialreports/smart.invasion/convertible.500.jpg)
Here is a head to head collision, looks as though the smart car did better than it's opposition.
(http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/mbccustom/smart/safety/images/c6b.jpg)
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Better than the other car in the collision?!?!?! Look again at the crush zone on that one and see where the drivers legs are in that picture. Yep right in the crushed zone. Now compare that to the other vehicle with n intrusion into the passenger compartment. Sheet metal can be fixed or replaced. Legs are a different story.
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If you look at the Smart Car, the passenger cabin is still intact. The CT Dummy's legs are unaffected.
Smart Car Safety Tests (http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/mbccustom/smart/safety/event_release.cfm)
In every test, the strength and rigidity designed into the tridion safety cell provided greater occupant safety than in other small cars and the deformation values measured were below all internationally recognized standards for all vehicles and in some cases the results for smart were significantly below these standards. This is particularly true in the case of a collision between the smart and a larger and heavier vehicle -- for example a collision with a Mercedes-Benz E-Class sedan.
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I'm seeing those cars a couple times every day here in TO. Great second car for urban use.
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It would be awfully hard to fit my 2 kids' car seats in the back . . . :lol
No thanks on the golf cart.
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Those things are all over the road up here in Canada.
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Originally posted by Nash
Those things are all over the road up here in Canada.
It figures. :lol
It looks like it has it's tail shoved up it's arse.
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Originally posted by Mr Big
It figures. :lol
How so?
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See Rule #5
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2008?
wow, chrylser sure does move fast to take advantage of changing circumstances.:O :O :O :O :O
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See Rule #5
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Guess I'll need to carry a crow bar to pry 'em out of my brush guard if they become popular down here...
(http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL767/2726312/8668097/161519896.jpg)
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all american political officals, appointees, and government employees GS9 or higher should be forced to drive one.
The convertible.
They should also be prohibited from owning body armor.
And, if they survive 3 years (the politicians, not the cars) they should be allowed to keep the job.
But they still gotta drive the car.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Guess I'll need to carry a crow bar to pry 'em out of my brush guard if they become popular down here...
(http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL767/2726312/8668097/161519896.jpg)
do you like the smell of your own farts?
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Originally posted by Hangtime
do you like the smell of your own farts?
Only when no one is around. ;)
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See Rule #2
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Nash, sell the old Volvo and get a "smart car.
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Can I drive that on bike paths?
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See Rule #2
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(http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.10/images/FF_182_microcar1_f.jpg)
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See Rule #5
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
(http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.10/images/FF_182_microcar1_f.jpg)
Not exactly the grocery getter is it? I'm sure it will sell well with college kids...until they get married anyway.
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Originally posted by Mr Big
See Rule #2
Can't until 2008.
Seems to me the reborn Mini Cooper is doing well, and the Smart is urban chic in Europe, so maybe Roger isn't so stupid after all.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Not exactly the grocery getter is it? I'm sure it will sell well with college kids...until they get married anyway.
Reminds me of the Yugo.
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"Hey Daddy, can I have a car for my 16th birthday?"
"Sure baby, what color Smart Car do you want? Their only 15k, so I'll get your the hardtop for winter and the convertible for summertime!"
"Gee thanks Daddy."
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"Honey I need a new commuter car, and the parking downtown is fierce."
"Why don't we try a Smart Car, dear."
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Originally posted by Mr Big
\
Let's hear you're best argumrent for this stupid car's viability in the US.
I see a couple things going for it:
Fuel costs rising: I'm pretty sure this will be attractive for those commuting in the city in stop and go traffic where engines tend to use the most fuel.
Purchase cost: Makes it very attractive for single people. College kids will buy them up because their professors already brainwash them about corporate oil pirates and global warming while they drive their lincoln town cars home after teaching class.
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Around here it is anything but poor people buying it...lots of younger women and older women. For inner city travel it's perfect as a second car...the wife needs to pick someone up at the subway stop... that kind of thing. Maybe your daughter needs a car to take her to university and home?...a car like this is perfect...and goes on and on...
Not really that cheap either...I think they are around 23,000$ CAN
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See Rule #5
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link to info on Mercedez Benz Smart Car (http://www.mcuniverse.com/The_Smart_Car_Comes_to_Canada.1325.0.html)
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Originally posted by Mr Big
See Rule #5
Ah...
So the reason that "it figures" that these cars are all over the place up here is that: "When you are poor, you buy crap like this."
Allow me to be the first to inform you of something.
Canada, and my province in particular, is sitting on 66% of the world's oil reserves. That makes Canada, and the province where I see these smart cars driving around in, decidedly not poor. My city in particular is exploding. The money is coming in faster than folks can figure out a good way of spending it.
So isn't it an interesting dichotomy then?.... to on the one hand have a wealthy population who makes their money off of oil, and on the other have that same population purchasing environmentally sound vehicles which uses very little of it.
Do you want me to compare that to the wealthy (loan us money - please!) Americans who have very little in the way of their own oil, yet who still deem it neccessary to drive around in gas-sucking behemoth-sized vehicles (most of which will never see anything even close to the terrain that these things were supposedly designed for)?
Is that a debate you want to have?
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I guess you didn't read this part, Nuke.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In every test, the strength and rigidity designed into the tridion safety cell provided greater occupant safety than in other small cars and the deformation values measured were below all internationally recognized standards for all vehicles and in some cases the results for smart were significantly below these standards. This is particularly true in the case of a collision between the smart and a larger and heavier vehicle -- for example a collision with a Mercedes-Benz E-Class sedan.
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Better get her that Vespa she wants instead.
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Originally posted by Nash
Ah...
So the reason that "it figures" that these cars are all over the place up here is that: "When you are poor, you buy crap like this."
Allow me to be the first to inform you of something.
Canada, and my province in particular, is sitting on 66% of the world's oil reserves. That makes Canada, and the province where I see these smart cars driving around in, decidedly not poor. My city in particular is exploding. The money is coming in faster than folks can figure out a good way of spending it.
So isn't it an interesting dichotomy then?.... to on the one hand have a wealthy population who makes their money off of oil, and on the other have that same population purchasing environmentally sound vehicles which uses very little of it.
Do you want me to compare that to the wealthy (loan us money - please!) Americans who have very little in the way of their own oil, yet who still deem it neccessary to drive around in gas-sucking behemoth-sized vehicles (most of which will never see anything even close to the terrain that these things were supposedly designed for)?
Is that a debate you want to have?
So are you retiring anytime soon?
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Anyone know if that thing is AWD? If they make an AWD model, it'll even sell better.
Ah well, gotta go, littlest is calling for story time.
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Originally posted by Nash
Ah...
So the reason that "it figures" that these cars are all over the place up here is that: "When you are poor, you buy crap like this."
Allow me to be the first to inform you of something.
Canada, and my province in particular, is sitting on 66% of the world's oil reserves. That makes Canada, and the province where I see these smart cars driving around in, decidedly not poor. My city in particular is exploding. The money is coming in faster than folks can figure out a good way of spending it.
So isn't it an interesting dichotomy then?.... to on the one hand have a wealthy population who makes their money off of oil, and on the other have that same population purchasing environmentally sound vehicles which uses very little of it.
Do you want me to compare that to the wealthy (loan us money - please!) Americans who have very little in the way of their own oil, yet who still deem it neccessary to drive around in gas-sucking behemoth-sized vehicles (most of which will never see anything even close to the terrain that these things were supposedly designed for)?
Is that a debate you want to have?
So you are all rich oil barons?!
Then why would you buy this "car"?
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Do rich people buy these cars?
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Originally posted by Mr Big
Do rich people buy these cars?
that's who's buying them in this city
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See Rule #5, #2
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Originally posted by Mr Big
See Rule #5, #2
NUKE..would I lie to you?;)
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See Rule #5, #2
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$15,000!?...for THAT!?
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See Rule #2, #4
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From Forbes.com
Emerging Trend: Eye-catching minicars and microcars are making their presence felt in the U.S.
Why: "Basically, they're cool," says Find/SVP analyst Karen Swanson. "Gen-Xers and Gen-Yers are following a time-honored tradition of wanting vehicles different than those their parents drove, namely large sport utility vehicles (SUVs) and minivans." Younger drivers don't need to think about packing in entire families and the dog, and models such as BMW's Mini Cooper, which got its start in crowded European cities, are finding themselves welcome in urban and suburban America. And, they get much better gas mileage.
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See Rule #2
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See Rule #4, #2
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
that's who's buying them in this city
Same.
They buzz in and out of the city for the daily work commute. Or are used by housewives to zip around and get groceries in (yes - it's true). On weekends they jump into something bigger and head off to the mountains or wherever...
But these smart cars aint the "poor people's" wagons - trust me.
Nuke aka Mr. Big has never seen one, has never seen who drives them, knows nothing about our economy, yet he somehow knows that only poor people drive these.
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See Rule #5, #2
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These cars aren't only the cars of the rich..... not even close.
A broad swath of the demographic drive these.
They are by far, however, not the toys of the "poor" - which is what you tried to say.
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Nah, he's just being an ******. No surprise.
Anyway, back on topic... lots of those around here as secondary cars, you even get to park them perpendicularly to the sidewalk. The sports model looks pretty nice, and they now have a 4 seat version.
This is probably bound to be the us version :p
(http://www.zapworld.com/about/news/images/watch_smarthummer.jpg)
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they should have made it look cooler. what is the gas like in it? how fast does it go?
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See Rule #2, #5
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guys if its a smart car why would it get in a reck. i mean its smart for god sakes wouldnt that mean its safer then most cars.
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Originally posted by straffo
Mr Big , at this time you made 1/3 of the posts in this thread.
And none where decently constructed, so what is your point here ?
yap yap yap yap yap.
(http://www.inkypaw.com/chihuahua.jpg)
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Dammit Saw, I was just going to post the same thing. ;)
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How ya gonna anchor that thing to the ground? Seems like it wouldn't be that hard to pick it up and load it in the back of a pickup truck? Or a least tip it over for fun? You park your car and when you come back, it's upside down. I bet it would become a real problem eventually. Enough to burden already overworked police departments where a special squad would have to be formed just to watch out for car tipping pranksters. Think about it. No...this car would end up costing taxpayers so much it would outweigh any fuel savings.:D
Les
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On a serious note, that looks like a deathtrap. I'm poor and I wouldn't buy something like that or even ride in it...not as long as there are larger cars on the highway. I would get a lot more car for $15k. Heck for $15k I'd restore my old '69 Delta 88 before buying a toy like that. That's my .02.
Les
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Originally posted by Mr Big
See Rule #2, #5
I disagree, the "smart" is pretty expensive when looking at it's features,it's a small car , the market niche is the people living in town having trouble finding a place to park.
At least it is the marketing target in Europe.
Originaly it was supposed to be affordable , but it never was ! for the same pricetag you can have a lot better in other brand.
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See Rule #2
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See Rule #2
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I wouldn't buy that for my kid even it sold for under $5k. each of my kid's first cars have been second hand land yachts. I prefer Caprice Classics. let them learn with lots of sheet metal and a wide riding car. the two older ones are on their second SUVs currently. in our family the guy with smallest car is me. my usual daily driver is still my '99 tacoma everyone else is in expos or suburbans. holden the little car may do well in on the coasts but I don't think it will do well where real people live. but I could be wrong.
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Originally posted by Saintaw
yap yap yap yap yap.
Heheh.
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See Rule #5
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I wouldn`t call $30K cheap transportaion.
2 X $15K = $30K
One for each foot.
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See Rule #5
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saw one on the highway the other day... i was going WTF? is that street legal? it was right next to a semi, and i thought it was going to get squished like a bug.
death trap is basically the only word for it.
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Originally posted by Mustaine
death trap is basically the only word for it.
That's two words.
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See Rule #2
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See Rule #2, #5
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make your own opinion mustaine :
http://www.euroncap.co.uk/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=1&id2=74
http://www.euroncap.co.uk/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=1&id2=29
http://www.euroncap.co.uk/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=1&id2=69
http://www.euroncap.co.uk/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=1&id2=214
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See Rule #2
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See Rule #2
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Originally posted by straffo
make your own opinion mustaine :
http://www.euroncap.co.uk/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=1&id2=74
http://www.euroncap.co.uk/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=1&id2=29
http://www.euroncap.co.uk/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=1&id2=69
http://www.euroncap.co.uk/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=1&id2=214
just one quote from your sources:
Both the driver and passenger’s airbags worked well but the restraint system for the passenger caused a high risk of injury to the chest. The driver’s shins contacted a die-cast beam which goes across the width of the car. Although this has padding and a deformable element in front of it, the loading on one of the driver’s upper legs was still very high.
i couldn't find mention of the speeds these tests were done at. the much larger crumple areas in more "normal" american cars seems to have advanced enough to keep the passenger compartment relatively safer in many accidents. there are routinely head-ons where people "should" be dead, but were just injured. in these accidents i don't see these mini cars having a chance VS the typical Buick on the road.
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See Rule #2
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Also made by Smart:
(http://smartroadster.trnd.com/images/smart_bobbycar_roadster.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1137109117_20029211530-0-swoop.gif)
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People have started to buy them here and I assure you, they ain't poor people.
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Interesting how everyone is suddenly so conserned about safety(not that Smart is un-safe). Shouldn't you be trying to get motorcycles banned or something?
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Originally posted by Curval
People have started to buy them here and I assure you, they ain't poor people.
Yep
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Originally posted by mora
Interesting how everyone is suddenly so conserned about safety(not that Smart is un-safe). Shouldn't you be trying to get motorcycles banned or something?
motorcycles have always been dangerous, and it is known if you choose to ride one you take that risk. cars generally are "supposed" to offer the protection a motorcycle does not offer.
if you choose to drive these little things i think it should be at your own risk like a motorcycle is all. thats my opinion.
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Originally posted by Curval
People have started to buy them here and I assure you, they ain't poor people.
is there any wonder?
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I like it. What kind of gas mileage do they get?
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Originally posted by lukster
I like it. What kind of gas mileage do they get?
just like any other vehicle. it will consume every drop of fuel you put in it. :aok
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Originally posted by lukster
I like it. What kind of gas mileage do they get?
Google is your friend! (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A30439-2004Dec27.html) ;)
(About 60 mpg)
On a side note, I got 31 mpg with air conditioning running in my 21 hour round trip drive to Montana last week end, average freeway speed of 95 mph in Montana. ;) (I love German automobile engineering!) (http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL767/2726312/11096877/160265793.jpg)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Google is your friend! (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A30439-2004Dec27.html) ;)
(About 60 mpg)
hehe, yep, thanks
http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_062806_news_smart_car.7866401.html
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With that kind of gas milege, Nuke is gonna look like a fool when the numbers come out at the end of 2008...I don't see a gallon of gas dropping below $2.50 a gallon ever again in the States.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I don't see a gallon of gas dropping below $2.50 a gallon ever again in the States.
those days are LONG GONE, no question about it Rip.
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some of us are self employed. those of us that are just might have the ability to raise the prices they charge for goods and services. some or our businesses might be heavily pertoleum dependant. we pass those costs on to the consumers. the consumer always foots the bill. it's better to be a producer even if it's only a small producer, at least your not a full time nothing but consumer consumer.
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What price is gas in the US today? I've noticed a slight downward trend here.
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$2.79 per gallon for regular here today and it has dropped slightly
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Originally posted by beet1e
What price is gas in the US today? I've noticed a slight downward trend here.
$2.86/gallon avg. (.75 cents/liter)
Google is your friend, too. (http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp)
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In the U.S., I`m sure it can expect along and profitable following.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/22_1151599747_lifespan.jpg)
:D
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Originally posted by storch
some of us are self employed. those of us that are just might have the ability to raise the prices they charge for goods and services. some or our businesses might be heavily pertoleum dependant. we pass those costs on to the consumers. the consumer always foots the bill. it's better to be a producer even if it's only a small producer, at least your not a full time nothing but consumer consumer.
Petroleum's days are numbered.
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so are the sun's
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Originally posted by storch
so are the sun's
Try and stay on topic.
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First, who is Nuke?
Secondly, Mr Big, how many poor people buy $15,000 new cars? Don't poor people usually buy used vehicles?
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Originally posted by Mustaine
just one quote from your sources:
i couldn't find mention of the speeds these tests were done at. the much larger crumple areas in more "normal" american cars seems to have advanced enough to keep the passenger compartment relatively safer in many accidents. there are routinely head-ons where people "should" be dead, but were just injured. in these accidents i don't see these mini cars having a chance VS the typical Buick on the road.
can you give me a "normal american" car so we can compare the ENcap ?
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Petroleum's days are numbered.
Yes, but that E85 stuff seems to be taking off - and I've heard it even yields more energy than the same volume of petrol/gasoline.
Nice avatar, by the way. The only two I ever had were Animals, and DSOTM - which I've had on vinyl, editor's master recording on vinyl, cassette tape, and CD!
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Originally posted by beet1e
Yes, but that E85 stuff seems to be taking off - and I've heard it even yields more energy than the same volume of petrol/gasoline.
Nice avatar, by the way. The only two I ever had were Animals, and DSOTM - which I've had on vinyl, editor's master recording on vinyl, cassette tape, and CD!
Agree on the E85, but I'm not too sold on it. I work for Ford and they are not as serious as GM. But DCX (Daimler-Chrysler) is worse than Ford. They are getting Premium gas prices for E85 and this is still helping Oil companies.
As for the Pink Floyd, PM me, I should have me PC back next week from Cyberpower. My "Media HD" is at home and would be more than willing to accommodate you.
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Continuing nukes rational regarding the purchase of this car.
If only poor people are buying this car to save I suppose only poor people are buying fake grass to save water. Since he services only poor people I think you should acceed to nukes superior knowledge of poor people.
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Originally posted by straffo
can you give me a "normal american" car so we can compare the ENcap ?
the family truckster:
(http://www.ajga.org/Newsletter/TheAJGALink/8-5-05/images/Truckster.jpg)
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Originally posted by straffo
can you give me a "normal american" car so we can compare the ENcap ?
tahe the Chevy Malibu or something like that.... typical mid-sized car, a honda accord would fit the bill too. that would be about the average size.
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so we have http://www.euroncap.co.uk/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=3&id2=169
versus :
http://www.euroncap.co.uk/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=1&id2=69
xrtoronto it's furniture , not a car !
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The roadster version looks pretty dam cool. Like a supped-up go-cart.
(http://www.smart.com/is-bin/intershop.static/WFS/mpc-uk-Site/-/Editions/Root%20Edition/units/mpc-uk/default/Media/UK_images_05/roadster/product/586x256_roadster_pulse3.jpg)
http://www.smart.com/ (http://www.smart.com/)
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Try and stay on topic.
let me attempt to have a conversation with one of the mentally impaired blondes in the area then perhaps I'll have the proper practice to follow your logic. :aok
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Originally posted by Maverick
Continuing nukes rational regarding the purchase of this car.
If only poor people are buying this car to save I suppose only poor people are buying fake grass to save water. Since he services only poor people I think you should acceed to nukes superior knowledge of poor people.
"he who serves the masses lives with the classes". confucian proverb.
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No thanks. Other folks should feel free to drive 'em as much as they like though.
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oversized scooter...and expensive for what your getting, how much does a cobalt cost?
would like to see what would happen if you put a engine from one of those power ranger crotch rockets in it though.
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Cobalts start about $13k and go on up from there.
A pretty nice one lists $18k, all the options mostly.
Of course, list and sell are two different things. I bought one last year for my mother-in-law. Listed about $16.5, drove it away for $11K.
Pretty nice little car; she loves it. Getting about 24mpg around town.
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What is this "Cobalt" - any pictures, anyone?
Oh no, just browsing back through this thread - looks like we won't be hearing from Mr. Big any more...
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Originally posted by beet1e
What is this "Cobalt" - any pictures, anyone?
(http://www.autobytel.com/images/previews/05ChevyCobalt/400/2005-chevrolet-cobalt-front.jpg)
Unfortunately, this car in "some people's eyes" is a "poor" man's/woman's car.
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I'd personally spend the extra $$ and get a Mini-Diesel before I'd spend money on a Smart car: (58 mpg)
http://www.bmwworld.com/models/mini/diesel.htm
(http://www.bmwworld.com/pics/mini/9541_1024.jpg)
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I would rather drive a real car half as much or... a motorcycle than that "smart" car but.... that is just me.
I think that it is good that the private sector is meeting fuel price/shortage problems with inovative designs... I imagine many more will show up... some may even appeal to me.
When I retire to the boonies I may even get some turbo diesel driveline and stuff it under an old s10 blazer to tinker with... 1,000 gallon tank of diesel stored and it would not be a bad emergency vehicle. Something to run to town in for a change of pace or when there is a shortage of other fuels...
Maybe not... maybe by then something else will sound better to me. The options are allmost limitless and growing.
lazs
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One plus point these smarts are backwheel drived cars unlike the mayority of the european cars. :)
They are indeed used by the richer people here.
But they dont need much parking space so u can put em everywhere and that's handy in europe.
now this :)
(http://www.bureauangenent.nl/smart/images/foto_smart_Halftrack.jpg)