Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: mrfish on February 14, 2001, 03:03:00 PM
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yet more isreali terorism:
"GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) - Israeli helicopters targeted a member of an elite unit in Yasser Arafat's police force and killed him with a missile as he drove on a busy street Tuesday, marking a return to Israel's policy of slaying suspected Palestinian militants. A 13-year-old Palestinian boy was shot and killed in central Gaza and 60 other people reportedly were wounded by gunfire in the latest escalation of Mideast violence."
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where was his trial?? don't we usually oppose countries with bad human rights abuses? ya know like countries that go assassinate people without a trial based solely on their suspicion?
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This just keeps escalating, with no end in sight...I suspect another out-break of war in the middle east...and all of us will be affected in one way or another.
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I did not know that soldiers of a country at war should be tried before shot at. Did I miss trials of all the german soldiers killed by US military during WWII? Erich Hartmann was shot down 12 times. He probably had lousy lawers to allow that!
An air-raid with clearly-identified helicopters openly performed by persons in uniform towards military personnel of a different country sounds more like a military action then terrorism to me.
miko
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Speaking of escalation, it has already happened.
Palestinian bus driver plows into and kills 8 Isrealis waiting for a bus.
http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/02/14/mideast.07/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/02/14/mideast.07/index.html)
"Eye for an eye", "tit for tat", "I'll stop when you stop"......It will never end imho.
Fury
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What about that missiles fired at some peaceful villages in Afganistan some time gao ? I forgot did they send lawyers before or after the attack ?
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Before you judge, go and live in Israel or Palestine. Its easy to say "terrorism", "military action" "crazy mullahs" , etc etc from the comfort of your own home, in the comfort of your own country where the only danger are drunk drivers and heroin addicts going through withdrawals while holding a shotgun.
You have no clue what you're talking about.
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Originally posted by Tac:
Its easy to say "terrorism", "military action" "crazy mullahs"
You have no clue what you're talking about.
errr tac - mullahs are moslems - my complaint is about the israelis (they are mostly jews by the way)
Q: are you comfortable that your tax dollars are going to a goverment that flies around in helicopters shooting missiles at SUSPECTED terrorists, effectively executing them without due process?
if so go watch yerself some wwf slapdown and make yourself comfortable while the rest of us worry about whether our country is doing the right thing buying missiles for countries who don't have a system of just law -
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miko we declared war . they havent . seems like they just kill each other indescriminatly .
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US did many similar things without declaring war. US ships did fire missiles to area/village when they thought that one known person could be there.
US did bomb the large cities in some countries without enough (from my point) reasons. Why bother about this one ?
Israelis do very accurate strikes at exact person. They do great job avoiding any injuries to civilians. They do hit only high ranked guys, whose activity was carefully investigated and who are proven to be involved.
Israelis really can not do it in "civil", "human", "legal" ... whatever you call it way. Too many deaths from bombs and gun fire in small territory. It is not just some rare accidents done by some unorganized people. It is war. And not a fair one (if there are any).
I do not care about taxes unless I have to pay more for some gov affair.
I am not jew/moslim/american btw.
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US did many similar things without declaring war. US ships did fire missiles to area/village when they thought that one known person could be there.
US did bomb the large cities in some countries without enough (from my point) reasons.
When the hell did this happen??
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TheWobble:
Afghanistan, Sudan (US tried to get Mr. Bin Laden) and Yugoslavia (Belgrad) not so far. As I said I am not American so it is just my point of view. YMMV
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hmm, never heard of that..all these years of fighting anywhere and everywhere and only 2 occasions..not too bad.
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sshh add Libya too in that list of yours
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We (the US) are looking at this too: www.foxnews.com/politics/021401/assassin_dupre.sml (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/021401/assassin_dupre.sml)
Personally, I don't have a problem with it. Take out the leaders and the sheep will "see the light". By the time the government would assassinate someone, I would feel pretty confident they deserved it. I'm sure it happens now in one form or another. Just because it isn't smeared all over CNN, doesn't mean it isn't happening...
Eagler
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Originally posted by -towd_:
miko we declared war. they havent . seems like they just kill each other indescriminatly.
They did. There are several organisations with proclaimed goal of destruction of Israel. Israel never declared cessation of hostilities towards them.
My friend lives in Kiryat Shmone for ten years. He cannot recall a week when his town has not been shelled at least once, including a week when I visited him. Nobody sent lawers to him in advance, neithed did he expect them.
You may not want to call their situation a war, but that does not change the fact that the war never stopped since 1948.
Israel is a really democratic country. Anyone can go visit it and see for himself, talk to the people, etc. It's a nice vacation spot if you do not mind some risk.
Why don't you just go there and see for yourself if it's Israel that is interested in continuation of violence.
The split in their population is mostly between the people who trust that giving up to certain conditions they will be allowed peace and those who want peace too but do not believe that they will be allowed it no matter what they do.
miko
[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 02-15-2001).]
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Originally posted by Eagler:
Just because it isn't smeared all over CNN, doesn't mean it isn't happening...
Eagler
too true eagler! the problem is that i dont have any trust in the government to decide who gets swatted
secondly - yes decapitating the leader may cause the sheep to see the light - but its only 'seeing the light' if you agree with thier agenda - i dont agree or support the israeli agenda and dont like the fact that the u.s. supports them at all much less helps them assassinate their 'political' enemies - and they are *political enemies* - and as has been stated in some informed posts, there is no war only an undeclared internal conflict.
ps - thanks for the gentlemanly debate/difference of opinion type post as opposed to the straight up rude posts of some others! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by mrfish (edited 02-15-2001).]
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I have no problem with anything Israel has done. You cannot allow terrorists to think they can get away with anything. Sometimes you have to fight fire with high explosives.
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Originally posted by sshh:
US did many similar things without declaring war.
Well I cant agree with you there sshh. It wasnt really the US that did that, it was our former Felon in Chief that ordered those attacks on the aspirin factories to direct our attention elsewhere. Our top brass advised against it but was told to do so anyways.
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Retreat hell!! We're just attacking in another direction!
Proofread if ya want, it's your dime.
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Originally posted by mrfish:
... yes decapitating the leader may cause the sheep to see the light - but its only 'seeing the light' if you agree with thier agenda - i dont agree or support the israeli agenda
mrfish:
It is obvious to me that you are evaluating it from the position of an armchair strategist and assuming everyone thinks like you. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
The israelis are not conducting a discussion. They are not trying to educate palestinians or turn them to judaism or whatever you mean by "seeing the light". They are just trying to kill a key enemy officer in order to disrupt enemy's war effort. It is much more humane then killing soldiers under his command.
If you remember your history, americans did just that when they assassinated leading japanese admiral Isoroku Yamamoto on his flight from Rabaul to Bougainville in April 1943 after they learned his schedule. That most likely hastened the collapse of Japan and saved lives of american and japanese soldiers.
How about today's US/British raid on Iraq? Are we at war? Should we sue them first for shooting at our planes patrolling the no-flight zone?
As for you not trusting the government to conduct a war, That I would rather not leave to the private sector!
miko
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<sigh>......really miko, ya oughtta do your homework before spewing vitriol at me -
the 'head' thing it wasn't my quote, it was eagler's and i was responding to it.
i was commenting on his statement that if you want to kill the body you start with the head - my point was that i don't want to kill the body - in fact i am on their side - so direct your angst at eagler please - but first i would suggest reading his 'entire' post
- and really, come up with a different retort than "you want everyone to think like you" it's a blanket statement you make in every situation and whether it applies or not. this is a discussion board where people debate things. i am offering my opinion, you offer yours. if i am convinced by yours then i will change my tune - its called a discussion.
cheers-
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"It wasnt really the US that did that, it was our former Felon in Chief that ordered those attacks on the aspirin factories to direct our attention elsewhere. Our top brass advised against it but was told to do so anyways."
That arguement didn't work so well at Nurenmberg.
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Nuremberg doesn't apply, we didn't lose (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
And FYI, War was outlawed in 1946 by the United Nations, The United States of America has not been involved in a declared "war" since.
(A veteran of a few "police" actions)
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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"
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Eh, not involved in a declared war since 46?
Were Korea and Vietnam clean police missions? Ehheh.. The sad truth is that the majority of americans are ignorant, stuffed with mcdonalds and comedycentral. They have no idea what's happening outside their borders and even less knowledge of what their country is doing to others when it suits its goals.
As what goes for Israel, they're supposed to be the 'God's nation' taking back the land promised to them by God himself.. Now why do they have to fight about it if it's so?
It's just another crusade in the flow of centuries, a tribe killing the original owners of the land with the authorization of religion. A belief.. When the real motivation of the leaders lies behind a political power struggle and money. Religion is just a nice way of selling this to the public.
After all the killing and the violence they have committed, I seriously doubt they can even themselves look in the mirror and say that they really are the God's nation and deserve that land.
They have blooded their hands.
What goes to Palestinians, I wonder when they will smarten up and stop throwing stones on the Israeli soldiers. They're shooting back with bullets for crying out loud! They should either eat it up and try politics (won't work) or then get some real firepower and fight back with bullets.
There are 2 main reasons why human kind will never be at peace:
1: Religion
2: Politics (with powermonging leaders)
In that specific order. Superstitions and belief have caused the world an unbelievable amount of grief.
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Originally posted by MrSiD:
The sad truth is that the majority of americans are ignorant, stuffed with mcdonalds and comedycentral. They have no idea what's happening outside their borders and even less knowledge of what their country is doing to others when it suits its goals.
truth where...besides in yer mind?
[This message has been edited by TheWobble (edited 02-18-2001).]
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Originally posted by thewobble: "hmm, never heard of that..all these years of fighting anywhere and everywhere and only 2 occasions..not too bad."
Let's start from that for example.
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Well sid I guess because I didnt know that that makes me and all americans idiots huh?
Wow, woe to he who challenges the intelect of MrSiD, for he is who decides who is smart and who is not.
too bad you couldent choose not to make yerself full of toejam (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
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Well, Wobble, if you could look at the big picture objectively you would end up in the same realisation. The average american does not get enough education at school about other nations (my personal finding after talking to numerous americans.)
The problem is extended by the fact that the government rarely advertises its covert ops when not forced to..
Wobble, You're still just a kid.. Don't try to worry yourself with the problems of the big world.
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Possibly the most disturbing thing I've ever seen an American write:
"By the time the government would assassinate someone, I would feel pretty confident they deserved it"
You are aware how many people died sixty years ago to make that statement false?
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Originally posted by TheWobble:
hmm, never heard of that..all these years of fighting anywhere and everywhere and only 2 occasions..not too bad.
Hey Im American and I love my country but there are lots of these instances. Just last week, 5 strikes were launched by joint US and British troops on suspected SAM sites in IRAQ. Sure 4 of them were inside the no-fly zone but then again, 1 of em wasnt. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Before you assume your own country is completely in the clear, think again. We have our own transgressions.
-Ding