Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: red26 on June 30, 2006, 11:30:00 AM
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I hate to ask this but what is the C205 good for? I have used it a couple of time but It seems to fall on its face quite fast and it has a lack of rounds. Would you use it more to defend a base or do escourts?? Or what?
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It.. has..... a lack... of rounds...????
Considering that it has three times what most 109s carry internally, considering it has the same cannon amount as a FW190, and is one of THE best-stocked planes in the game for ammo, I dont' think you can really claim that.
The c202 and c205 are great planes. They are nimble, light, can perform very well, and the 205 has great guns. The 202 flies a bit better but you have to saddle up and really blast the target to get kills (hint: take the wing guns, they help even if only a little).
Macchis are great! Most folks just don't want to learn 'em :)
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500 canon rounds is not that bad....
Good climb, verry nimble, lots of ammo, small target, ok views. Low eny value so good to get perk points with.
Pretty good plane :aok
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Use it as an E-Fighter or BNZ. Works great.
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Low eny value so good to get perk points with
6 kills in a 202 will average about 80 perks, and 8 kills in a 205 will average about 40-50 perks.
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Hehe, I always run out of fuel long before I run out of ammo in a C205.
In my opinion it´s not the ideal plane for a base defense, but I like to use it in offensive actions or for escort duties. Handles nice climbs fast and has a good punch. And like Schutt pointed it out: It´s one of the best perk farmers in game :D (In my second sortie with that plane, 7 kills gave me 94 perks. To bad I´m rarely that successful...)
(You may take a look at http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php and compare the Macchi to for example the P51D)
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So the C205 would be great fo like escourt duty's? Ive flown it just a couple of time and I didnt find the handeling to be that good but I will keep trying it out. any more infop yall could put out for me would be great?:aok
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I don't believe whatever you used to compute lethality...
2x MG151/20s with 500 rounds and 2x 50cal with 800 rounds, is 20% less lethal than 2x hispanos with 250 rounds and 2x50cal with 500 rounds?
I don't think so. Maybe it's just me.
The performance charts are a great comparison though.
I suggest folks compare the P51D, the SpitXVI, the Fw190A8 and the C205.
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Ok now when I get home today Im going to jump in a C205 and see what I can make it do. Ive noticed that I have to lay a lot fire power in to a person to bring them down . But they can just run a light pass of rounds of me and blow me to bits will LAG have anything to do with this?
:O
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That or rubber bullets. Make sure vsync is "on" in your vid card settings. Also you could be hitting with MGs and missing with cannon. MGs naturally won't do much damage.
Best thing to do in C205 is to learn the cruise and max cruise settings to conserve gas.
I just wish I knew if there was any special order to draining the fuel -- I try to drain the wings first so I can roll better but I don't know if it really helps or not.
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vsync what is that and can I change it?
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I'm in Ki-84 land nowadays, but I spent a lot of time in 205s - it is a great B&Z plane. I haven't tried it out in 2.08, but I still had controllability at 500 kts IAS after a long dive, and I got my only 262 kills in it.
It climbs well and has a big clip, so its not a bad bomber killer either. It does suffer from the luftwaffe cannon damage modeling, so you do have to get more rounds on target to get a kill.
I didn't think much of the turn & roll rates though - I'd recommend staying out of any sustained turn fight and use the monster climb rate to get out of trouble.
EagleDNY
$.02
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Originally posted by EagleDNY
It climbs well and has a big clip, so its not a bad bomber killer either. It does suffer from the luftwaffe cannon damage modeling, so you do have to get more rounds on target to get a kill.
I'd have to disagree there. It does have MG151/20s, right from a LW plane. Same problems. I've also had many problems with bombers. I have unloaded everything I had before into a formation of B24s and not gotten kills until 3 minutes later (I set all on fire but it took a long long time, making slashing attacks from the side and front/side areas). I was thoroughly shot up by then, too.
Not the best bomber killer. Best bomber killers are faster, and have better guns, but again, this is all debate. The 205 is good (if not great) at killing buffs.
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Originally posted by red26
vsync what is that and can I change it?
Like in your windows display settings, advanced button. The screen where you set resolution, # of colors, etc, it should have an advanced button that gives you access to the card-specific settings.
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Originally posted by Krusty
I don't believe whatever you used to compute lethality...
2x MG151/20s with 500 rounds and 2x 50cal with 800 rounds, is 20% less lethal than 2x hispanos with 250 rounds and 2x50cal with 500 rounds?
Note that the amount of ammunition is not a factor in lethality in these charts, only in firing time. Its just the lethality of a single bullet (or burst??) from all primary/secondary weapons.
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Hrm... okay. I think I'll buy that, then. To me, that's not how I judge "lethality", but now that I know your page uses it, that clears up the issue.
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Originally posted by red26
So the C205 would be great fo like escourt duty's? Ive flown it just a couple of time and I didnt find the handeling to be that good but I will keep trying it out. any more infop yall could put out for me would be great?:aok
I think the 205 takes quite a bit of practice to get good at (more than I've had, at least). I can tell you from the receiving end, though, that someone who knows his 205 is very hard to defeat in either a turn fight or an energy fight.
- oldman
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Originally posted by Krusty
Hrm... okay. I think I'll buy that, then. To me, that's not how I judge "lethality", but now that I know your page uses it, that clears up the issue.
Err... of course this is NOT my page, but DoKGonZo s...
and the lethality was tested by Hammer respectively computed by Tony Williams. :aok
I´m just a happy user of that splendid resource.
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I love the C205. To me it seems like a better turning at high or mid speeds, and when I fly it, I can keep in a turn with a spit ( Will with it still in my vision area) Get up close to the enemy and then just open up, and BOOM! there dead. C205 climbs great, and its got good turning. I love it, and it will love you to, if you think it rocks.
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red, choose canon loadout. great vulching plane. great speed plane.
hap
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C 205 is a fun little plane once ya get used to it. Make sure you have your cannons set in and I like to burn off the wing tanks 1st then the main tanks.:aok
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I wouldn't mind taking the MG option once in a while if they made the wing guns 12.7mms as well. There are a few sources that say the 202/205 had 4x 12.7mm.
EDIT: I mean I'd like them available for the 205, I don't think the 202 version we have ever had 4 12.7mms, it was a slightly different version. The 205, however, probably had the ability to mount 12.7mm or 20mm in the wings.
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I tryed the C205 out with 50% fuel and it seemed to handle slugishly maybe I just dont know how to fly it right. And it seemed that the enmy. planes was able to get on my tail easely. one this I have noticed is that I was 200meters away from a plane and I had to unload all my ammo into it before it even caught on fire but he made one pass at me and took me out. I know I was hitting his tail because I could see the wight marks but you would think with a full clip of ammo he would go down. Oh and the outhjer plane was a zero. I had my wepons set a 350 meters anyone know what I did wroung here?:aok
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Your cannons are in your wings. If the meter said 200d you were probably under 200, and your guns were set to 350 -- your cannon rounds were going around the target most likely. The 12.7mms can kill but you have to hit in the same spot.
Also if you're in a tight turn you REALLY have to lead more than normal because of the cannons.
Until you consistently hit with cannon I suggest you not fire your MG at all. You're seeing MG sprites, and thinking they're cannon. You have to train yourself to shoot MG151/20's. Flying a 109 will help (with gunnery, I mean)
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Originally posted by Oldman731
I think the 205 takes quite a bit of practice to get good at (more than I've had, at least). I can tell you from the receiving end, though, that someone who knows his 205 is very hard to defeat in either a turn fight or an energy fight.
- oldman
In a turn fight, the C.205 suffers badly from a case of the wobbles. The slower you get, the worse the handling becomes. Beating the 205 is a matter of getting them to turn hard enough to burn off their E. A slow 205 is quickly a dead 205.
One advantage of the 205 is that it is easy to fly as long as you stay reasonably fast. However, it is a handful when slow. There are others with this characteristic, such as the Yaks and the Ki-61.
Against the Luftwaffe's contemporary, the 109G-2, the C.205 is outclassed.
Once you know the C.205's weaknesses, you can try to avoid situations where those weaknesses can be expoited. That is, as long as the other guy cooperates.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Lusche
(In my second sortie with that plane, 7 kills gave me 94 perks. To bad I´m rarely that successful...)
Your right on that one Lusche! I hit a prime field with the vulch-light on and ended up with 19 kills of everything from La7's and niki's to sets of bombers trying to roll. I ended up losing my rudder from a manned ack that popped and I still got a few more kills. Slid into the runway on my belly and got around 230 perks. The next hop I took a 262 and clipped an invisible tree at the end of the runway..... the look on my face -->:huh
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That was divine punishment for all the vulching!
Honestly! To sully the name of the Macchi by using it to VULCH! The indignity!!
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Originally posted by Widewing
In a turn fight, the C.205 suffers badly from a case of the wobbles. The slower you get, the worse the handling becomes. Beating the 205 is a matter of getting them to turn hard enough to burn off their E. A slow 205 is quickly a dead 205.
What are you flying in this scenario, Widewing?
- oldman
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205's legs are a bit short for "escort duty". I've generally used it very successfully in field defense. It's a jack of all trades and master of none...and its got cannons....lots of cannons. :)
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Flying the 205 teaches you to cruise to and from combat. The problem is that you need to burn fuel if you want to climb fast.
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Originally posted by Oldman731
What are you flying in this scenario, Widewing?
- oldman
Bf 109F-4, G-2. Any F4U, etc. Personally, the 109F-4 would be my choice for dueling virtually anything. The beating it hands out to fighters like the C.202, C.205, Ki-61, even the Yak-9U is remarkable.
All of the above are thought to be great turn fighters. They are certainly not in that category. Whereas the Yak is thought to be very good, the 109F-4 eats it up in a stall fight.
Here's some data from actual testing: From my testing and from Mosq's data where I hadn't tested yet.
Turn Radius / Turn Rate in degrees/sec
C.202: 490 ft / 19.8
C.205: 566 ft / 18.6
Ki-61: 520 ft / 18.0
Yak-9U: 520 ft/ 19.2
109F-4: 431 ft/ 21.0
109G-2: 460 ft / 20.5
Turning ability, 25% fuel, using flaps, within the whole of the plane set, the C.202 ranks about mid pack, The C.205 is far below that, in the lower 1/3rd. In contrast, among fighters, the 109F-4 ranks in the upper 20%.
Just remember, when turn radius is similar, turn rate will prevail. Moreover, more often than not, turn rate is a better measure of turning ability than radius alone.
You can go to DokGonzo's performance page here (http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php) and compare performance yourself.
My regards,
Widewing
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IMHO the 205 is an excellent mid 1943 fighter. It is very good even in our late-war-mosnters main arena. Keep it fast at medium-high alts, best between 14 and 18K. And no, 109's are not a problem against well flown Veltro's ;)
You wont have much problems even against bombers. BTW, the 205 punch should be actually better than a 2 cannon armed 190's since her cannons have a better ROF (they fire outside of the propeller arc, so they are not syncronized).
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Originally posted by Widewing
Bf 109F-4, G-2. Any F4U, etc.
I think that was my point. 205 isn't the best turn fighter, but people who are good in it can be very effective at turn fighting with all but the best turn fighters.
- oldman
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Sometimes pick the 202 on base defence.
Just 2 guns, and 50 fuel.
One can turn inside very many hehe:D
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Originally posted by Krusty
That was divine punishment for all the vulching!
Honestly! To sully the name of the Macchi by using it to VULCH! The indignity!!
But you should have seen all the sheep running for thier lives! :t
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So what would be the best range setting for the cannons on the 205? Ive been flying one in the tranning arena for some time now I still can turn the darn this but in diving in on some one its great. But hey I cant even turn fight a P-40 wile flying the zero and the P-51D's seem to take me out of the air soon to wile im in the zero. But anyways what would be the best setting for the 205 guys?:aok
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Red record your fights for a while. Ignore range, just look at the gunsite picture. When it "clicks" in your head, shoot. When you review the film, pause it JUST as you start shooting, note the range. Do this for several different attacks. Then set your convergence right around that range.
You want to set convergence at the range you most likely shoot at. That will probably be 250 to 300 (average).
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I try not to shoot unless im 300 or lower It seems on what my grandfather used to say the closer the better he flew the P-51D and 47 in Europe but I didnt get much time to talk to him about it. And any tips on turn fighting???:aok
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bank wings, pull up. When you spin out, stop pulling up. :lol
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:rofl :rofl rgr that:lol :lol
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Earlier post:
Here's some data from actual testing: From my testing and from Mosq's data where I hadn't tested yet.
Turn Radius / Turn Rate in degrees/sec
C.202: 490 ft / 19.8
C.205: 566 ft / 18.6
Ki-61: 520 ft / 18.0
Yak-9U: 520 ft/ 19.2
109F-4: 431 ft/ 21.0
109G-2: 460 ft / 20.5
Still have to contend that the c.205 is much better at the B&Z than it will ever be in a turnfight. The high speed controllability is up there with the 190D (much better than any of the 109s, thats for sure).
The turn radius data is interesting since I didn't think the 205 was THAT bad a turner, although I do have to agree with the "wobbles horribly at low speed" post too.
Keep it fast, dive down on your victim and let him have both barrels. There isn't anything you can't catch in a big divin' 205, and the zoom climb at 500 kts generally keeps you out of trouble. With an ENY of 40, the perkies are pretty nice too ;)
EagleDNY
$.02
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Ok now I need a little help with my turn fighting it seems that once I get into a turn and try to get out of it I dye and If I stay in a turn I get to stall speed andthen dye i dont know what I doing wroung but it seems no matter what i do to get out of a turn even if the turn is just a few 100 or so feet once i get out of it the outher plane killes me? can some one help me with this?
:aok :O :O
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Okay define turn. You don't just want to flat turn over and over. Do a scissors, or a half turn then fly straight then reverse, or something.
Spice things up!
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I keep my convergence at about 350yds for both 20 and 12,7mm and it works well.
Red26,
generally speaking you should not enter a real turn-loop fight when driving a C.205. Real turners apart (like Spits, Niks, Ki84s, Zekes, Hurries ...), the arena is populated by full-flaps UFOs as well ... like F4Us, P47s, Bf110s and P38s who will eat you alive. So, stay fast and fight vertically, use Yo-Yo's ... and keep your SA high. You can also practice with 109s, the fighting style is almost the same, but be aware of compression at high speeds.
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The C205 is quite awsome! after all, Italy made the Ferrari :)
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Originally posted by red26
I hate to ask this but what is the C205 good for?
Target practice.
ack-ack
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The C.205 is a great plane, but you have to learn it's strengths and weaknesses. Outclimb, and out turn a lot of others, lots of cannons. It is not a speed demon, so do not try to outrun a lot of planes.
It is great for base defense, as well as bomber defense. What it is not, it is not a turn fighter, nor is it a slow speed fighter. It is a good mid altitude, mid speed fighter.