Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: daddog on July 01, 2006, 06:35:59 PM
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The 332nd Flying Mongrels were slotted to defend the troop facility near 6.8.8. We were assigned Spit XIV and realized soon after take off that once we reached the troop facility near 6.8.8 that we would only have 20 min of fuel left. I ordered ½ my flight to head directly to A15 which was only 3 miles west of the troop facility. They were rearming as some of the other fields within two sectors were beginning to flash. By then my flight had only 15 or 20 min of fuel left and I ordered the rest to land and rearm. By the time we arrived the first flight was taking off with a full load of fuel. Two of my guys broke their gear and or bent their prop. I properly chastised them for busting up a perfectly good aircraft. Thirty seconds later I was on final and bounced too hard. Bent my prop! :eek: :O Ugh! I could not just exit, the guys would have asked what happened, my hand was forced. I have to say that Spit XIV is a bit ticklish on the ground. ;) Well that brought our numbers down to 11 or so.
Soon after they were back up some 262’s came in and were buzzing the sky. We managed to down one (thanks to Teedawg and Ren) without a loss. This kept up for about 10 min then the Ju-88’s came in with 109 escorts. Several Ju-88’s were downed and a couple 109’s. I have to say that Harppa was the last one up and he was chased back to A15 by some 109’s and a Ju-88. He managed to evade them and then take out a 109 before he landed his smoking and damaged AC.
In frame one we were also slotted to defend a factory. No problem with that, I actually enjoy defending, but what I have concluded is if we had 4 cannons instead of .50’s (P-51) or 2 20mm (Spit) we would have really cleaned up. A suggestion for Frame C.O.’s. Give those defending an aircraft with 4 cannons. They would really tear up a formation of Ju-88’s. :)
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whats the matter DD, coudn't watch rest of event from enemy side in frame 2
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Both the 262's and the 109G-14's you faced were LCA pilots. The JU-88's were Bad Company's
BDA of the training facility: knocked down to 20% after the JU-88's second pass. Not too bad. They went in with 10 flights of buffs (minus a couple lost drones) and 8 of their pilots managed to rtb.
I'd have to agree with defenders needed cannon against buffs. TANK1 would have killed more JU-88's before I got him, had he cannon instead of .50's in the pony he was flying.
The Bf109G-14 wasn't that great an escort..... we had an awful time staying slow enough and circling the buffs to keep close to them. Did not speed up until cons sighted, and probably never reached full speed in them like they should be flown. It's a better interceptor, especially against buffs with gondola option.
At least two of my 109 pilots were forced to ditch, and were captured behind enemy lines. Another compressed and lawndarted.
Fuel-wise, flying nearly the whole way to an from target at less than maximum cruising speeds, 100% fuel, and DTs, got three of home with about 10 minutes of flight time to spare.
I can also sympathize with bent prop.... I came in too fast and overshot the end of the runway... bent prop and ditch.
Still waiting to hear from my Me-262 pilots on their experience. Only 4 of them managed to land. One looked like a disco (ouch, tough way to loose 20 points), and one looks as if he lawn-darted.
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Ha,, need it destroyed, cannons or no, call the JG44 in.
we getr done
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We managed to down one (thanks to Teedawg and Ren)
Yea, that was me daddog.
I was the only 262 killed in air-to-air combat. :(
We lost 1 to AAA and one to Disco. Not sure
about the last one.
Very nice job Teedawg...I never saw the Spit on
my six until I saw tracers going by. :huh By then I was
pretty well doomed as I let my E drop while chasing
the first Spit. I rolled over and was about to start
a dive to get that E back up but to no avail.
The Spit got my horizontal stabilizers and that
was that.
I knew I was putting myself in a weak position.
Had I known about the second Spit..well, thats
another story. ;)
Very nice teamwork you guys.
David "96Delta"
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So, you guys still fly?!? lol. ive never seen you on!
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I don't know what to say about that frame.
The Nightmare's flew a NOE path to the radar factory in 12,7 and the b26's still beat us there. So we had little effect on that target. During our RTB to A60 we encountered a couple of enemy plane's but nothing to speak of. We re-armed at 60 then with nothing left to do we landed per orders.
IMHO it was a waist of 20 perfectly good Pony's. A fighter sweep might have been in order with an hour left in the frame. Next week is going to be a good one for sure. Thats how it goes...
MGD
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LOL Doobs. You dog.
Sorry to hear that MGD. Not sure why you guys saw little action. You might ask Creton about it. That is never any fun.
Reynolds we are active in the Friday night Squad Ops, but the MA flying of late has been pretty thin. I get in the MA 3 times a week or so and usually don't see anyone. You can't make Friday nights right? I will be happy to send you the orders if you like. :) Shoot me an e-mail again.
Was fun tedrbr. You guys kept us busy to be sure! :aok
Delta we sure heard a lot of WTG on vox when teedawg shot you down. :)
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DD its not about see a little action thats happend sometimes.
Its about quality of CiC.
Im not afraid to say, this frame allied CiC SUX.
I hope he learn something this time.
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Originally posted by daddog
Delta we sure heard a lot of WTG on vox when teedawg shot you down. :)
MUST KILL TEEDAWG...MUST KILL TEEDAWG...MUST KILL TEEDAWG...
(http://david.tenifer.com/aceshigh/images/forum/evilgrin_100.gif)
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Originally posted by ramzey
DD its not about see a little action thats happend sometimes.
Its about quality of CiC.
Im not afraid to say, this frame allied CiC SUX.
I hope he learn something this time.
A bit harsh, but I was on Axis so I do not know from first hand experience.
And if it was the first time running the show, well, it's a learning experience. Some have some background in things like this coming in, some do not, and I'm sure some get put into the position of CiC against their will when it's a squad's turn to provide one: ie short straw looses. In which case, I think I know who the next Allied Frame CO should be..... :D (Hint: First to cast stones)
But.... If various AARs I've seen are correct,... I think the lesson is: do not go AFK, trusting your autoclimb, when you are in THE most important plane in the arena for your side.
Bad things can happen then.
Next Friday ought to be fun.
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Aye,
I agree a touch harsh.
Some advice for first time CiC's:
Do not try to get tricky your first time out. Meet the enemy head on in force. Win or loose your pilots will understand. Just try to give your given plane set the advantage with there upping bases and squad numbers. When it comes down to it thats what wins FSO's.
MGD
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2 more advices
Communicate with your squadrons and dont send them to land in the middle of event.
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USMC was on the north side of the map, escorting The Damned's JU88's to the AA Factory. We had 7 262's and 4 Fw190's. Drano decided to go noe to target, so we used the 262's and 190's to scout ahead and help them avoid enemy contacts. The 190's ran into a formation of heavy P47's early. We ditched droptanks and engaged them. They were heavy, and tried to run past us, we downed 4 of them, and let the rest go as we had to return to the escort duties. Having droped our tanks early, the 190's were soon down to 20 minutes of fuel. We decided to keep the 262's out, and refuel the 190's. As the 190's were refueling, the 262's found the enemy over the target. There were P51's and Tempests all over. They did their best to take them away from the target so the bombers could get through, but I believe the bombers were spotted before target.
By the time the 190's were joined back up, the 262's had to go get fuel. They had lost one 262's engine, but otherwise were unhurt. The 190's engaged the pursuing P51's but, without the support of the 262's, they did not fare so well. Mostly running and covering each other it was a long fight but all 4 190s went down. The 262's refueled, and continued the fight, downing a handfull more of enemy planes before landing. We lost 3 262's to enemy action I believe, landed the rest. Everyone had a great time, and Iceman was our top pilot in a 190, scoring 4 kills. Allies, it was a fun frame.
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Comes down to best use of plane set given.
Shorter ranged fighters with cannon, should be on defensive cap. Typhies, Tempies, G-14's with Gondolas. Buff interceptors and killers.
Choice beteen P-51's and P-47's for defense, I'd use the Jug (unless you *have* to use the jug in JABO role) --- Jug both deals and takes more damage engaged with buffs. Just important to try and have altitude and energy advantage. Pony is the better escort and fighter sweep platform.
262's. As a scout, fine.... 4 to 6 plane flights plenty for a patrol. Also decent for taking out buffs in hit and runs. I wouldn't send them on a fighter sweep.
I think the limited visibility creates some problems as well. Whole formations passing each other, and never seeing each other. Literally, the Fog of War.
In the end, not every squadron going to have a steller night ever FSO frame. But, I still look forward to them. Nice change of pace from MA.
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Originally posted by ramzey
2 more advices
Communicate with your squadrons and dont send them to land in the middle of event.
thought it a bit strange when allies all started loggin when we had a 20 pilot advantage. By the time there was 20 minutes left we were outnumbered by 10.
Luckily no major axis attacks came in the last minutes.
Dont be too rough on the lads ramzey. Might be we could offer up some more constructive advice and help turn all our CiC's into pro's (at which point they will likely burn out and we'll have more new ones lol....but thats life!).
Cant say I studied the allied orders too much, so at this point am unable to add anything in the way of advice.
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I could be nice and polite , but im still angry at guy.
CO of squadron i fly with cannot get any constructive answer from CIC like 20 minutes. Untill he decide to end flight and deliver all our planes safe on airstrip.
I dont like orders cuz:
we were order to take noe to target avoiding contact with enemy, we did that
but same time our brilliant CiC send squadron high flying bombers to same location, they compromise our position and strike our target 10 sec before we engage. So, we end up tossing our bombs on the field. Beucose CiC cannot give us secoundary target to hit.
Imagine frustration of 20 pilots in fully loaded planes.
Looks like we came to FSO just to do scenic route over germany.
We came back and rearm at T+70 and fly around for 20 minutes without any answer form CiC. We could be set for firgter swap, for any secoundary target , whatever.
But we end up making circles around our base when roster show 40+ LW being somwhere there.
I hope our side destroy all ground targets for this frame, if not CIC is only one person whos responcible for that.
Also, i have to make som sucrifices to be able flying FSO, and i expect something more for me amd my buddies then just make circles and wait for orders wich never come.
end of flaming.
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The last bit of advice for a new CiC. Please do not fly with your squad.
Stay on the ground and advise the squads where they need to be. It's not that much to ask.
When I asked where our CiC was tuned so I could talk to him his responce was "my squad channel" or in essence bite me I don't want to hear it. So with nothing else to do I landed our 18 heavy pony's.
We are all here to have fun. Being an FSO squad require's you cough up a CiC from time to time. If your good enough to fly and handle all the traffic good for you I'm not. If your new to being a CiC take one for the team and stay in the tower. You could give your squad some buffs and be a gunner at least you'll be in the air.
Take this a face value but it is intended to be friendly advise. I know the next FSO is going to be a great one... it always works that way.
MGD
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ramzey,
Ya got to calm down a bit. We live and learn. You and I had the exact same problem but we still won the event. So let's give the CiC some credit. Constuctive advise is always good. Crying like a six year old school girl goes over the top. We know went wrong so let's fix it not cause issues.
Your a good guy we have flown mission's with each other. I'll bet ya the next time he is the CiC we do not have the same problems. I think our point has been made.
MGD
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I would like to extend my apologies to the Allied pilots in Frame 2. Sorry for the confusion with orders and communications. This event was handed down to us due to upper management issues. I make no excuses and we should have done better. As for the CiC remaining on the ground, well that would heve been easier, but the scenario had it set up for the Frame commanders to fly in a designated role. You have my word that when the time comes, and FATE is called apon to do this again, we will up to the task.
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Originally posted by Imoutfishing
The last bit of advice for a new CiC. Please do not fly with your squad.
Stay on the ground and advise the squads where they need to be. It's not that much to ask.
When I asked where our CiC was tuned so I could talk to him his responce was "my squad channel" or in essence bite me I don't want to hear it. So with nothing else to do I landed our 18 heavy pony's.
We are all here to have fun. Being an FSO squad require's you cough up a CiC from time to time. If your good enough to fly and handle all the traffic good for you I'm not. If your new to being a CiC take one for the team and stay in the tower. You could give your squad some buffs and be a gunner at least you'll be in the air.
Take this a face value but it is intended to be friendly advise. I know the next FSO is going to be a great one... it always works that way.
MGD
I would point out that for THIS particular senerio, the CiC, if by this you mean the Frame CO for a side, had to fly one of the character planes. But otherwise, I would agree with this observation. The CiC could alway bounce around as a gunner/observer while conducting his duties, but should not be flying himself, normally.
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hehe....
The last bit of advice for a new CiC. Please do not fly with your squad.
I fly when I am CiC, but I think my squad can attaest to the fact that, well, about 20 minutes in I'm usually on the radio asking "where are you guys?"
but then, I do that when I'm not CiC too.......................... ..........:p
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Originally posted by ramzey
I could be nice and polite , but im still angry at guy.
CO of squadron i fly with cannot get any constructive answer from CIC like 20 minutes. Untill he decide to end flight and deliver all our planes safe on airstrip.
I dont like orders cuz:
we were order to take noe to target avoiding contact with enemy, we did that
but same time our brilliant CiC send squadron high flying bombers to same location, they compromise our position and strike our target 10 sec before we engage. So, we end up tossing our bombs on the field. Beucose CiC cannot give us secoundary target to hit.
Imagine frustration of 20 pilots in fully loaded planes.
Looks like we came to FSO just to do scenic route over germany.
We came back and rearm at T+70 and fly around for 20 minutes without any answer form CiC. We could be set for firgter swap, for any secoundary target , whatever.
But we end up making circles around our base when roster show 40+ LW being somwhere there.
I hope our side destroy all ground targets for this frame, if not CIC is only one person whos responcible for that.
Also, i have to make som sucrifices to be able flying FSO, and i expect something more for me amd my buddies then just make circles and wait for orders wich never come.
end of flaming.
A lot of things seemed to go poorly for your squad in this frame.
But, I know you, like most of us will be satisfied with this mild rant and carry on. Seen ya do it before ramzey, and I know you of all people know how things can go wrong in an event.
So, here's hoping thing are better for you next time (as long as you are not flying against us, hehe)
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Good communications is always critical.
When I was Axis CiC for Frame One I included
a request for squad vox channels in my orders.
Because the orders were sent at the last moment
none of the squads had the opportunity to send
their frequencies to me.
Luckily, I was able to get a handful of VOX channels
during the game. Being able to reach out and
get SitReps and distribute instructions using VOX
is an immense help to a CiC! I cannot overstate
how helpful having that information was.
Squads who I dropped in on during the game can
further attest to that. It really helped me capture
and maintain a picture of what people were facing and
what their ongoing disposition was.
This ability was invaluable.
Although useful, using text is just very cumbersome
and time consuming at times. I prefer to use text to
send orders to all squads at once, like "all available
fighters within range of A35 proceed there and defend
against bomber attack" and so on. I also depend on
it to receive SitReps and updates from squads as they
execute their orders.
Things quickly get very fluid and complicated during
the game and it becomes a serious effort to try and manage
whats happening in the game as CiC. Helping make a CiC's
job easier by providing them with the tools they need only
helps a squad in the end. Helping the CiC's perform their
duties is, at least to my way of thinking, part of a squad
C.O.'s responsibility.
I would even go so far as to argue that participating
squads be required to give CiC's a VOX that they will
be using in the game to facilitate such communication.
The job of CiC is hard guys. If squads would try to make it
easier on CiC's they would get more out of the event.
To change gears a bit. Here is something that I made up
that might be of use to those of you who really like to
tackle the management aspect of being an FSO CiC.
Its just a form that I designed that helps CiC's keep
track of their squadrons, their ongoing strength, the
status of targets and squadron locations. Feel free to
use it if you like it. It isn't perfect but what is? ;)
David "96Delta"
BTW
The Loose Cannons Alliance will be using
VOX 111
during Friday Squad Operations.
(http://david.tenifer.com/aceshigh/images/forum/biggrin_100.gif)
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Whoops,
forgot the link.
http://david.tenifer.com/aceshigh/fso/CiCWorksheet.pdf