Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: ~Caligula~ on July 02, 2006, 09:40:57 PM
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Here You go all pal lovers...they`re such nice people and love their childeren so much.
PA television airs clip encouraging children to become shaheeds
By Nadav Shragai, Haaretz Correspondent
This week, Palestinian television reprised, after a three-year absence, a clip featuring Palestinian child Mohammed a-Dura, calling to other children to join him in a shaheed heaven for children.
The dramatic heart-wrenching footage of a-Dura, shot dead in crossfire in a clash between Israeli and Palestinian forces in the Gaza Strip in the beginning of the intifada in September 2000, was broadcast around the world.
"Palestinian Media Watch" reported on the television clip on Saturday, and announced, "The Palestinian Authority is once again airing video clips designed to influence the behavior of young children and to make them seek deaths as shaheeds."
The clip, which caused much controversy when it first aired, was taken off the air in the fall of 2003, after Palestinian Media Watch director Itamar Marcus, presented the clip at a U.S. Senate hearing.
Following the hearing, senators slammed the clip and criticized it as "horrifying abuse of children."
In the clip, a child portraying a-Dura is peacefully playing in heaven, and calls to other children, "follow me." The popular singer Aida performs the song in the clip, which describes how the earth longs for the deaths of children, saying, "How pleasant is the smell of the earth whose thirst is quenched by blood pouring out of young bodies."
Another clip that aired this week after a long absence depicts a young girl witnessing her mother's murder and then singing about how she misses her mother. She sings, "If you can't come to me, I can come to you."
Palestinian Media Watch reported that the 2000-2003 Palestinian television campaign to recruit young children was so effective, that 70 to 80 percent of Palestinian children during that time wanted to die as shaheeds, according to three separate polls.
Marcus fears that the "sudden and surprising reprisal of the a-Dura clip, calling upon children to join him in a playground in shaheed children's heaven, may be only the first of many steps in a wide campaign designed to recruit children for the cause."
HaAretz (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/733742.html)
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do you have to love plestinian semites if you h8 israeli ones?
:noid :noid :noid :aok :aok :rofl :rofl :o
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at list they like to fight for their nation, not like other let yourself to be sloughter or stand back when their nation is sloughtered
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There's a fine line between bravery and stupidity. The end result decide which side you are on. The way it looks now, they are on the wrong side.
ramzey, are you Polish?
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Gotta love a country who hands out bombs instead of number 2 pencils in school!
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Originally posted by ramzey
at list they like to fight for their nation, not like other let yourself to be sloughter or stand back when their nation is sloughtered
What nation? One made up of refugees kicked out other arab nations slums?
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I'm confused. If the " 2000-2003 Palestinian television campaign to recruit young children was so effective, that 70 to 80 percent of Palestinian children during that time wanted to die as shaheeds," why was the youngest suicide bomber 16, with only half a dozen or so under 18?
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Meanwhile, Israeli Textbooks and Children’s Literature Promote Racism and Hatred Toward Palestinians and Arabs. (http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0999/9909019.html)
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Palestinian Media Watch reported that the 2000-2003 Palestinian television campaign to recruit young children was so effective, that 70 to 80 percent of Palestinian children during that time wanted to die as shaheeds, according to three separate polls.
How credible is an Israel-based organization that monitors incitement in Palestinian society? Im sure the same could be said about Palestinian Intifida..
And With such graciously given numbers, 70 and 80 percent, im interested to see these three seperate polls that were conducted, and who was actually polled.
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Originally posted by Momus--
Meanwhile, Israeli Textbooks and Children’s Literature Promote Racism and Hatred Toward Palestinians and Arabs. (http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0999/9909019.html)
that is one very credible website u showed us...thanks a lot.
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Pallywood (http://seconddraft.org/streaming/pallywood.wmv)
The birth on an icon (http://seconddraft.org/streaming/aldurah.wmv)
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Originally posted by ~Caligula~
that is one very credible website u showed us...thanks a lot.
About the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs (http://www.washington-report.org/aboutwrmea/index.htm)
The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs is a 100-page magazine published 9 times per year in Washington, DC, that focuses on news and analysis from and about the Middle East and U.S. policy in that region.
The Washington Report is published by the American Educational Trust (AET), a non-profit foundation incorporated in Washington, DC by retired U.S. foreign service officers to provide the American public with balanced and accurate information concerning U.S. relations with Middle Eastern states.
AET's Foreign Policy Committee has included former U.S. ambassadors, government officials, and members of Congress, including the late Democratic Senator J. William Fulbright, and Republican Senator Charles Percy, both former chairmen of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Members of AET's Board of Directors and advisory committees receive no fees for their services.
The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs does not take partisan domestic political positions. As a solution to the Palestinian-Israeli dispute, it endorses U.N. Security Council Resolution 242´s land-for-peace formula, supported by seven successive U.S. presidents. In general, the Washington Report supports Middle East solutions which it judges to be consistent with the charter of the United Nations and traditional American support for human rights, self-determination, and fair play.
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WRMEA's continued support for the UN's failed policy of "Land for Peace" reveals more about that organization than you may realize.
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Such as....?
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From the PMW site
Palestinian Children
Ages 10-13: Expressing the Wish to Die
1. 11 Year-Olds: Shahada (Islamic martyrdom) is Preferable to Peace
In July 2002, two articulate 11-year-old girls were interviewed in the studio of official Palestinian Authority TV. Among other topics, they spoke of their personal yearning to achieve death through Shahada - Death for Allah - and of a similar desire they said exists in "every Palestinian child." It is striking that their desire for death was expressed as a personal goal, not related to the conflict with Israel, having been convinced that dying for Allah is preferable to life. Their goal in living is not to experience a good life, but to achieve the proper death - Shahada.
The following are portions from the TV discussion:
Host: "You described Shahada as something beautiful. Do you think it is beautiful?"
Walla: "Shahada is very, very beautiful. Everyone yearns for Shahada. What could be better than going to Paradise?"
Host: "What is better, peace and full rights for the Palestinian people, or Shahada?"
Walla: "Shahada. I will achieve my rights after becoming a Shahida. We won't stay children forever."
Host: "OK. Yussra, would you agree with that?"
Yussra: "Of course Shahada is a good thing. We don't want this world, we want the Afterlife. We benefit not from this life, but from the Afterlife. And so all young Palestinians are not like other youth, they are hot tempered. Of course they prefer Shahada; since they are Palestinian."
Host: "I want to ask you, do you actually love death?"
Yussra: "There's a difference between death and Shahada."
Host: "No, I mean the absence that is in death, the physical absence. Do you love death?"
Yussra: "No child loves death. The children of Palestine have accepted the concept that this is Shahada, and that death by Shahada is very good. Every Palestinian child aged, say 12, says 'Oh Lord, I would like to become a Shahid." ['Letter of the People', PA TV, June 9, 2002]
2. Public Opinion Polls
"72% of the children sampled from all the districts of Gaza expressed the hope of becoming Shahids in the confrontations..."
[’Sout Al-Nissa’-Voice of the Women, Al-Ayyam, January. 24, 2002]
"...79-80% of the children expressed willingness to be Shahids."
[PA official daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, June 18, 2002]
3. Children's Poetry
"I swear to you by all that I hold dear that I will purify your land… For your land we will die, we shall advance to Shahada in groups!" [10th grade boy reads a poem, PATV, August 23, 2002]
4. Three Girls go to Seek Shahada
"The residents of the village Yassid…found the 3 girls who had disappeared two days ago, following a full day of extensive, strenuous searching. Yassid residents said that the three girls, aged 10,11 and 12, packed clothes, food and some money, and left eastward, looking for the way to Jerusalem, in order to achieve Shahada there. The girls got as far as a PA checkpoint, and there the officer on duty convinced them to go back. The children said they had wanted to get weapons and to go to Jerusalem in order to achieve Shahada there, and that the Israeli Army checkpoint would not have prevented them from their aspiration to achieve Shahada."
Ages 14-17: Embarking on Suicide Attacks
The PA indoctrination has already led to the death of Palestinian children. Young chlidren have written "farewell letters" to their parents in which they express pride in their desire to die, and have set out on suicide terrorist attacks. These children’s farewell letters included phrases identical to "farewell" phrases from the propaganda films produced by the PA: "Mother, don't cry for me," indicating a direct link between the PA propaganda and the children's desire for heroic death.
In addition, a 17-year-old girl blew herself up in a suicide terrorist attack in Jerusalem.
Following are the stories from the press:
1. Leaving Farewell Letters: "Do Not Cry for Me"
Three 14-year old boys set out to attack an Israeli village, hoping to be killed. They left farewell letters which included phrases from the TV clip "Farewell Letter" which was broadcast hundreds of times on PA TV: "The child Yussouf Zaakut wrote: '...Don't cry for me. Bury me with my brothers and with the Shahids..."" [The New York Times, April 25, 2002]
2. Brothers Leave Farewell Letters: "Don't Cry for Me, My Mother"
Two brothers who took part in the confrontations left farewell letters to their parents expressing their hope of being killed:
"He wrote phrases of love of the counrty and love of Al-Aqsa and becoming a Shahid, for liberty and independence. He referred to himself as a Shahid. On one of his notebooks he wrote: 'The hero Shahid, Yasser Sami Al-Koussba died as a Shahid on the land of Palestine...'"
"Sammer wrote the following phrase on one of his notebooks, a few days before he became a Shahid: 'Mother! Don't cry over me if I am killed. Death does not scare me, my aspiration is to be a Shahid'" ['Sout Al-Nissa-Voice of the Women', Al-Ayyam, Feb. 28, 2002]
3. 17-year-old Girl commits Suicide Terrorist Bombing in Jerusalem
Ayyat Al Achris, wearing a belt of explosives, walked into a supermarket in Jerusalem's Kiryat Yovel neighborhood, on March 29, 2002. She was 17 years old. The security guard at the door, suspecting she was a terrorist, pushed her outside, and she detonated her explosives, killing the security guard and a 17-year-old Israeli girl.
Part III: Findings and Conclusions
The Palestinian Authority has created a violent, death seeking reality for their young children, having taught them to see death for Allah - Shahada - as an ideal, which they are expected to achieve. As Arafat said in his message to children: "Is it not the greatest message to the world when that hero becomes a Shahid?"
The examples presented in this report are a representative selection, demonstrating the comprehensive campaign waged by the Palestinian Authority. If just 1% of the children attempt to fulfill their "duty" and seek Shahada through suicide terrorism, the ramifications will be cataclysmic. The targets of the future Palestinian terror wave will be Israel, and in all likelihood, other Western democracies, as well.
Today an entire generation of Palestinian children, victims of the PA's indoctrination and propaganda, believe that their death for Allah in war is the highest achievement attainable in life. This education is an indelible stain on Palestinian society, and places the Palestinian Authority among the greatest child abusers in history.
Shahada (http://www.pmw.org.il/ASK%20FOR%20DEATH.htm)
Can't trust the PMW? Then check the source references they have in Arabic...
The two polls listed above are Palestinian sources, but those sources might be inflating the numbers themselves for the sake of their intifada. In any case, the dates are given so you can prove PMW wrong. Go for it.
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Even if the washington report was credible, it treats this:
Israeli school textbooks as well as children’s storybooks, according to recent academic studies and surveys, portray Palestinians and Arabs as “murderers,” “rioters,” “suspicious,” and generally backward and unproductive. Direct delegitimization and negative stereotyping of Palestinians and Arabs are the rule rather than the exception in Israeli schoolbooks.
As the wrong thing to do.
Maybe it's just my point of view, but Murderers, Rioters, Suspicious and Unproductive sound spot on for the palestinian efforts.
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(http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/PalestinianChildAbuse/pal-child-abuse-94.jpg)
(http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/PalestinianChildAbuse/pal-child-abuse-95.jpg)
(http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/photos/lynch-child-gaza.jpg)
This little girl, the same age as Gal Aizenman, is taking part in a “graduation exercise” at a kindergarten run by the “Islamic Charitable Association” in Gaza. She is commemorating the ghastly lynching of two Israeli reservists in Ramallah.
(http://homepage.mac.com/cfj/.Pictures/baby-gunman-01.jpg)
A photo discovered by the IDF in a routine search of a Palestinian house on the outskirts of Hebron
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Palestinian youth carrying explosive belt arrested at Hawara crossing
A terrorist attack was thwarted when a Palestinian youth, around the age of 15, was arrested at the Hawara crossing, south of Nablus, in possession of a bag containing an explosive belt, an improvised rifle and 20 bullets.
In the afternoon hours of February 3, 2005, a Palestinian youth was identified acting suspiciously. An IDF officer asked the youth to open the bag he was carrying. When the contents of the bag were identified to be of a potentially explosive nature the people at the crossing were asked to clear the area and sappers were called to the scene. An explosive belt, an improvised rifle and 20 bullets found in the bag were detonated in a controlled manner by sappers. The youth was taken for questioning.
It should be emphasized that this thwarted attack is yet a further example of the fundamental importance and efficiency of the security crossings surrounding Nablus. It was thanks to the alertness of the soldiers at the crossing that a terrorist attack was thwarted.
On December 12, 2004, IDF and GSS forces at the Hawara crossing uncovered an explosive bag hidden in a cupboard, that was being transported in a furniture truck on its way to Jerusalem from Nablus.
Similarly on December 26, 2004, two youths were arrested at the same crossing, carrying two explosive devices in a bag. The devices comprised of both explosive material and shrapnel, and were intended for use in attacks against Israeli civilians and soldiers in the region. Both the devices were detonated in a controlled manner by sappers.
(http://www.take-a-pen.org/images/Children-Terror/l108.jpg)
LIES LIES ALL OF IT LIES.....THIS IS THE RELIGION OF PEACE!!!!!!!!!!! (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=Palestinian+Child+Abuse&btnG=Search)
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(http://homepage.mac.com/wildlifeweb/invertebrate/cockroach/brazilian_cockroach01.jpg)
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(http://www.pharmacienouvelle.com/new-img/cg-prod-insect.jpg)
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(http://nomadlife.org/uploaded_images/peace-sign-713031.jpg)
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Originally posted by ramzey
at list they like to fight for their nation, not like other let yourself to be sloughter or stand back when their nation is sloughtered
That is a good point. Just exactly what is the root cause of the pal jew problem?
I am under the impression that after wwII the jews all flocked to Palestine and then I get lost? Anybody know what happened. Did the Jews force the palestinians out of their homeland? If so arent the palestinians justified in fighting the occupying army?
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Violence begets violence....
Both are as bad as each other, both are founded on a history of terrorism and violence...in the name of nationhood, and in the name of righteousness - which both claim...
-tronski-
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Originally posted by WhiteHawk
That is a good point. Just exactly what is the root cause of the pal jew problem?
I am under the impression that after wwII the jews all flocked to Palestine and then I get lost? Anybody know what happened. Did the Jews force the palestinians out of their homeland? If so arent the palestinians justified in fighting the occupying army?
So now, since WWII the Jews do fight back and still the world is not pleased.
You confuse 1948 independence war with 1967 6-days war.
1948 was a civil war more than anything where two groups living in mixture in the same geographical regoin fight each other (with one of the groups supported by Egypt, Syria Jordan and reinforfcement from Iraq). This was not stae vs. state war. The Israeli side ended up with most of the British Palestine area while the rest of it was taken by the Jordanians (west bank) and the Syrians (Golan hights). Palestinians who found themselves under Israeli rule were given citizenship after several years (can't remember the exact date).
1948 lines were cease fire lines and not aknowledged by any arab country who shared these lines. Therefore they are not recognized as international borders.
1967 was a proper country vs. 3 countries (Egypt Jordan and Syria) war. Israel occupied the Sinai noodleula (and the Gaza strip) the west bank (area between Jerusalem and the Jordan valey) and the Golan hights. Again, the war ended with a cease fire agreement replacing 1948 cease fire lines with 1967 cease fire lines.
The Palestinian population occupied in 1967 did not get an Israeli citizenship and are todays "Palestinians". The Sinai noodleula was returned to Egypt in 1981 for a peace agreement creating Israel's 1st real international border - on the 1948 cease fire line, but leaving Gaza on the Israeli side to choke on. The Egyptians didn't want the palestinians either. The peace with Jordan was signed in 1995(4?) actualy making the 1967 cease fire line Israel's second international border. The Jordanians were happy to leave that teritory, palestinian population included, for Israel to choke on.
In 2000 the UN was called to mark the border between Israel and Lebanon. They used the 1923 British mandate line seperating Lebanon from Palestine. Lebanon still has not deployed its army along this border giving a 1001 excuses for letting the Hizballa, an independent Islamic organization, to militerize the border and occasionally attack Israel.
Of course, the Lebanon goverment is not to blame for these attacks because it is not THEY who do it, but some people who happen to be operating from their territory.
So now Israel has 3 international borders:
one based on the 1948 cease fire line.
one based on the 1967 cease fire line.
and one based on 1923 British mandate lines (decided by an agreement between the French and British btw).
And now to the difficult questions:
* So, which area is illegaly occupied and which is legal?
* What are Israel's borders that it should withdraw to according to UN resolution 242 - 1948, 1967 cease fire lines? maybe 1923 British mandate line or perhaps 1947 UN partition plan lines that were rejected by the arab side and never existed?
* Is someone who lived in the west bank till 1967 under Jordanian rule and escaped to Jordan in 1967 a Palestinian?
* Is an arab with an Israeli citizenship a Palestinian? Try to suggest to him that his land and town be part of the Palestinian state, if he answers "yes".
* If the entire land is Palestinian and illegaly occupied by the Jews, where should the Jews evacuate back to? Germany, Poland, Romania, Hungary, Russia, Ukrain, France, Greece, US, Argentina, Morroco, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Yemen?
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It was perhaps an error to not make Sinaï,Golan and West bank Protectorates to build a sort of Glacis.
During my studies it was "what if" we studied ,as you know the relation between Palestinians and surrounding arabs states are ... special at least :)
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Originally posted by -tronski-
Violence begets violence....
Both are as bad as each other, both are founded on a history of terrorism and violence...in the name of nationhood, and in the name of righteousness - which both claim...
-tronski-
I still love this attitude that both hands are dirty therefore no one is justified while CURRENTLY....ONE SIDE....continues to fight in an unjustified uncivilized mannor while the other protects its national intrests by use of force mostly consitant with international laws of armed conflict.
FACT palistinians are the bastards of the muslim world.....no one wants them yet they fight the jihad against israel so they are used as pawns in a rallying cause.
FACT (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/10/AR2005081000713.html) Israel has made more than a few concessions in thelast 5 years and conitinues to get screwed (http://news.google.com/news?q=palestinian+rocket+attacks&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&sa=X&oi=news&ct=title) as a result.
FACT (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&ct=title&ie=UTF-8&q=UN%2C+israel) The UN feels more sympothy for the plight of the palistinians than most and continues to turn a blind eye to the terrorist tactics used by them while scrutinizing Israels every move.
In other words the bleeding hearts of the world seem to want to excuse the attrocities of one because they are an underdog. I don't know a single leftist in America that would approve of these kids being raised by this village (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&ct=title&ie=UTF-8&q=palestinian+child+abuse&sa=N&tab=ni)
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That is a good point. Just exactly what is the root cause of the pal jew problem?
I am under the impression that after wwII the jews all flocked to Palestine and then I get lost? Anybody know what happened. Did the Jews force the palestinians out of their homeland? If so arent the palestinians justified in fighting the occupying army?
The flocking of jews to israel began around 1900. And before that there were still significant amounts of jews still living there. But those moving in BOUGHT their land legally. At the time this was happening, it was british land.
After ww2, it was just the final push of the zionist movement.
And it's not Palestine as you understand it. Palestine is a geographical area, not a political state. So technically, anyone who is living there is a palestinian.
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I still love this attitude that both hands are dirty therefore no one is justified while CURRENTLY....ONE SIDE....continues to fight in an unjustified uncivilized mannor while the other protects its national intrests by use of force mostly consitant with international laws of armed conflict.
Israel is violating most of the laws of armed conflict, from the killing of individuals without trial (targeted killings of people that could just as easily be arrested) to the violation of the 4th Geneva Conventions protections of the rights of civilians in times of war. (collective punishment, seizure of land etc)
Do not make the mistake that Israel is fighting a "clean" war. Even the ICT, which is an Israeli propaganda mouthpiece, admits that far more Palestinian civilians (and they count rioters and stone throwers as combatants) have been killed by Israelis than vice versa. In particular, over 100 Palestinian children under the age of 12 have been killed, compared to less than half that number of Israel children.
The list of violations by the IDF is very, very long. It ranges from children shot dead by sniper fire through classroom windows to children killed by tank fire aimed into a market (because the people in the market were defying a daylight curfew) to a bomb planted on the outskirts of a refugee camp that killed 5 children, but was, according to the IDF, aimed at killing snipers (they deliberately left a booby trapped device in a built up area)
In almost all cases, the IDF holds an initial investigation, and conlcudes that the killing was justified. They held one into the killing of Tom Hurndall. When the British government complained, and pressed for a proper investigation, the IDF found that Hurndall had been shot by an IDF sniper with no justification. and the soldier was convicted of manslaughter. For thousands of Palestinians killed, there has been no proper investigation.
Go and take a look at the US state department report on human rights in Israel and the occupied territories:
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2005/61690.htm
You will find one phrase repeated endlessly concerning the killing of Palestinian civilians:
"The IDF opened an investigation into the incident; however, at year's end there were no results."
And that's from a US government report. Others, not so staunch allies of the Israeli government, are a good deal more critical.
Go to http://www.btselem.org , an Israeli human rights orginisation.
Sadly, a proportion of soldiers are always ready to commit such acts. Refusing to investigate and punish such actions is exactly the same as condoning them, and leads to ever more being committed.
FACT palistinians are the bastards of the muslim world
The Palestinians were split into two groups following 1948. Those who remained in Israel, and were granted Israel citizenship, and who have little involvement in terrorism, and those who were dispossesed of their homes and citizenship, either in 1948 or 1967, and are now stateless, either refugees or subject to military occupation (or both) and are amongst the most active terrorists in the world.
If it's not genetic (and the Israeli Arabs show it can't be) then it must be a reaction to circumstances.
FACT Israel has made more than a few concessions in thelast 5 years
Which are? Do not make the mistake of thinking the Gaza pullout was a concession to the Palestinians. It was a unilateral Israeli move, that they absolutely refused to coordinate with the Palestinian Authority, that was designed to benefit Israel, not the Palestinians. The pullout was Ariel Sharon's answer to the US Roadmap, and was intended to put an end to the much larger pullout that the roadmap called for.
See one of today's editorials from the web site of Israel's largest newspaper:
Disengagement was supposed to punish Palestinians. How did we wind up with Qassams, kidnapped soldiers?
The first faulty strategic decision that brought us to the tragic mess Israel now finds itself in was not the decision to vacate Jewish settlements in Gaza. The mistake was to do so unilaterally, without getting anything in return and without talking to the Palestinian leadership at that time.
Unilateralism stemmed mainly from the desire to win strong public support for the disengagement plan. Strangely, advisors to then-Prime Minister Sharon thought they could sell the plan to the Likud Party if it was packaged as some sort of punishment to the Palestinians. After all, it's a zero-sum game here in the Middle East: What's bad for the Palestinians must be good for Israel, and vice-versa.
Within this governmental PR bubble, the disengagement was carried out on empty, foreign land, rather than areas bordering on Israel and densely populated with Palestinians. They had nothing to do with the process, and from the earliest stages were excused from any expectations of diplomatic or political reward for Israel's biggest withdrawal since Sinai.
"Take Gaza and choke on it," was essentially the Sharon government's message to Fatah last autumn.
Choking on Gaza
And so it was. They took Gaza and choked on it. Ruling the Gaza Strip proved to be just about impossible. It took months for the Palestinians to create anything resembling a minimum of public order. The economic situation deteriorated, in part because of the loss of jobs once provided by Jewish towns, but also because no security arrangement was reached to allow border crossings to function.
International aid was slow in coming, and so the withdrawal that could have served to strengthen the influence of the moderate wing of the PLO, headed by Mahmoud Abbas, was lost. Hamas, which was supposed to be weakened by the disengagement, gained strength and raised its head: It presented Israel's unilateral pullout not as a punishment for terrorism, but rather – surprise, surprise!! - as a victory for it.
The rest: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3270385,00.html
In other words the bleeding hearts of the world seem to want to excuse the attrocities of one because they are an underdog. I don't know a single leftist in America that would approve of these kids being raised by this village
You think that's limited to the Palestinians? Try this, an article in the Israeli newspaper Haaretz, about military style kindergartens for Jewish children in Jerusalem:
http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasite/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=181315
The English language version is long gone, sadly, but it describes the children parading, being called "soldiers of Israel", staging a mock attack with swords etc.
See if you can find the story about schoolchildren encouraged to write to soldiers taking part in operation Defensive Shield, where they encouraged soldiers to kill Palestinians, and which a settler spokeswoman (wife of Benny Elon, an Israeli parliament member, and leader of one of the smaller parties) called "healthy hatred". The comments, quoted by Haaretz, went along the lines of "kill as many Arabs as possible.", "For me, kill at least 10" and "Ignore the laws and spray them."
The whole situation is a lot more complex than Israel = good, Palestinians = bad. Whilst that sort of attitude prevails, peace isn't very likely.
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The flocking of jews to israel began around 1900. And before that there were still significant amounts of jews still living there. But those moving in BOUGHT their land legally. At the time this was happening, it was british land.
It was never British land. Britain had a mandate from the League of Nations to take Palestine and prepare it for independence, whilst simultaneously creating a homeland for Jews there.
Much of the land was bought, the point is though that following 1948 much was seized from Arabs with no compensation. Only a small proportion of the current land of Israel was ever bought and paid for. Most was state land, much was private Arab land expropriated by the state of Israel.
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Nashwan,
I beleive that these statistics are scewed for various reasons but mainly what would you consider a "civilian" in palestine?
Everything I've read about Isralie tactics tells me that attrocities are the exception and not the rule but I have yet to read in reguards to Hamas and others fighting Israel where it is the not the exception but the rule itself.
I'm sure there's alot of common soldiers of many countries that would snap after seeing his fellow citizens turned into hamburger and yet he's the one called the barbarion by the world court of opinion.
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I'd consider someone not part of a military or paramilitary group a civilian, unless they are engaged in combat.
ICT, who compiled the figures, classify Israeli soldiers taking an active part in combat as combatants, Israeli soldiers off duty (and some on duty) as non combatants. On the Palestinian side they consider any members of paramilitary and terrorist groups combatants, whether on or off duty, and anyone engaged in combat or stone throwing as a combatant.
Everything I've read about Isralie tactics tells me that attrocities are the exception and not the rule but I have yet to read in reguards to Hamas and others fighting Israel where it is the not the exception but the rule itself.
There's a certain truth in that, although of course the Israeli military has several hundred thousand troops on permament duty, and so carries out a huge number of non controversial combat operations. And whilst the suicide bombings against civilians in Israel get all the publicity, there are many hundreds of (usually unsuccessful) attacks by the Palestinians on the Israeli military.
It's worth noting that the current siege of Gaza, and it's affects on the civilian population, follow an attack on a couple of Israeli tanks/APCs, and the kidnapping of a soldier.
Of the Israeli casualties since the intifada began in 2000, 311 have been members of the IDF and paramilitary police, 697 civilians (although the civilian figures include some members of paramilitary security forces in the settlements)
ICT's rather distorted figures give the Palestinian casualties up to Jan 2005 (they stopped counting just befor the Hamas ceasfire) as 1542 combatants and 1099 non combatants killed by Israel. (this excludes medical deaths, ie those caused by delays at checkpoints, shortages of medicines caused by closures, etc)
I suspect the true figure is Israel suffers about 40% military, 60% civilian deaths, the Palestinians about 50/50. (excluding the medical causes above)
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Heres my idea to solve not only the palistinian problem and the jewish problem, but all God related problems: just go dig a giant pit into the earth (or several depending on geography requirements)...maybe 5000 feet down. Tell everyone that heaven is down at the bottom and if anyone is in such a hurry that they want to go to heaven RIGHT NOW, to go jump into the hole. Maybe even make commercials showing little kids falling happily to heaven, if thats the particular twist of any particular God cult :rolleyes:
I honestly think this idea would go along way towards improving life on earth for the rest of us. :cool:
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Originally posted by Yeager
Heres my idea to solve not only the palistinian problem and the jewish problem, but all God related problems: just go dig a giant pit into the earth (or several depending on geography requirements)...maybe 5000 feet down. Tell everyone that heaven is down at the bottom and if anyone is in such a hurry that they want to go to heaven RIGHT NOW, to go jump into the hole. Maybe even make commercials showing little kids falling happily to heaven, if thats the particular twist of any particular God cult :rolleyes:
I honestly think this idea would go along way towards improving life on earth for the rest of us. :cool:
Wow, so simple, yet so practical. I'm all for it.
Instead of letting god sort them out, let them sort themselves out.
I would like to place one bet, though:
The day that the pits are opened for business, the most common words heard echoing around the world will be: 'Allah Akbar'.
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Thanks for the reply Nashwan,
I just feel it is my humble opinion that the palistinians lost any and all attachment to "victom status" when they started blowing up busses and cafes full of civilians. It's not to say that I think the isralies hands are clean but I just see it more and more the sympothy for the plight of the poor poor palistinian people that elected a terrorist govt. If a people don't want to help themselves then no one else can help them. They are beyond help imho.
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Originally posted by ramzey
at list they like to fight for their nation, not like other let yourself to be sloughter or stand back when their nation is sloughtered
The apparent point of this almost coherent babble could easily be applied to either side of the conflict, hence, there is no point.
All the same, and this applies to some of the other posts, it's great to see people that have never been to Israel, nor ever will be, make quick and easy conclusions based on the news they read, and, more increasingly, on prevailing local opinion--an opinion that favors the Arab perspective more and more with each passing day.
I suspect that when the Arabs have completely overrun Europe, they'll finally be able to convince everyone that they are, in fact, the world's biggest collective victim, with the Jews being their key oppressors.
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suspect that when the Arabs have completely overrun Europe, they'll finally be able to convince everyone that they are, in fact, the world's biggest collective victim, with the Jews being their key oppressors.
I personally suspect that the majority of europeans are anti-semitic, even just at a subconcious level. This has nothing to do with the arabic invasion of europe.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
I personally suspect that the majority of europeans are anti-semitic, even just at a subconcious level. This has nothing to do with the arabic invasion of europe.
I'm more than willing to agree with you wholeheartedly. I just think that the growing Arab presence serves to give the sage-like Euros a group to actively side with, whereas before they were anti-semetic simply by virtue of their DNA.
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Do not make the mistake that Israel is fighting a "clean" war. Even the ICT, which is an Israeli propaganda mouthpiece, admits that far more Palestinian civilians (and they count rioters and stone throwers as combatants) have been killed by Israelis than vice versa.
Comparing number of casualties is irrelevant. More palestinians die than Israelies for the simple fact that the Israelies are better trained and better equiped. If anything, the fact that the numbers are not totaly one sided 1:100 even when comparing only "civilians" means that this is a bloody war. You do not expect someone attacked with a knife to put away his rifle and make it a "fair" fight.
Europians think the Israeli army is fighting over some colony over the ocean like they all did in their past. This "colony" may be a few kilometers from they soldiers home that is being hit by palestinian rockets.
I'm sorry, but I ceased to believe in any cosmic morality or justice being anything more than very rough guidelines. Both side fight dirty, that's the nature of reality, I do not expect otherwise.
What I do measure the palestinians by are the results. So far, the only thing they achieve is SENSELESS violence. The lack of clear purpose and objectives is what bothers me, not the methods they use. Do they even know what they want, that is realistic? No one in Israel has any idea what practical demands will satisfy them, only speculations. People will not "try and see" when their lives are at stake.
Their situation now is far worse than in 1995. Not that the Israeli goverment is the brightest, but the Israelies have been in a not very different situation 60 years ago and also fought dirty like some people love to mention. The difference was that Israeli leaders managed to make the right decisions in the critical moments that achieved at least their high priority goals, without sacrificing the population. Minor organizations were put on a leash, some compromises were made and still nothing came by right or by the kindness of the world. The UN may have voted for a Jewish state, but they still had to fight it out - wisely! in order to come out with something. Not shooting in all directions.
The palestinians kick, screem and blame Israel but do little to help themselves. I'm an Israeli but I support palestinian cause. Still, they keep banging their heads against the walls till they faint every time they are not pleased with something. No plan, no purpose, no organization. I'm also pretty sure that they will not ask of my opinions before they blow up the bus I'm on. They still haven't figured out that it is the Israeli voters that they need to convince, not the world.
They have some very talented individuals, but they are pathetic as a nation and that is frustrating.
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Originally posted by bozon
Comparing number of casualties is irrelevant. More palestinians die than Israelies for the simple fact that the Israelies are better trained and better equiped. If anything, the fact that the numbers are not totaly one sided 1:100 even when comparing only "civilians" means that this is a bloody war. You do not expect someone attacked with a knife to put away his rifle and make it a "fair" fight.
Europians think the Israeli army is fighting over some colony over the ocean like they all did in their past. This "colony" may be a few kilometers from they soldiers home that is being hit by palestinian rockets.
I'm sorry, but I ceased to believe in any cosmic morality or justice being anything more than very rough guidelines. Both side fight dirty, that's the nature of reality, I do not expect otherwise.
What I do measure the palestinians by are the results. So far, the only thing they achieve is SENSELESS violence. The lack of clear purpose and objectives is what bothers me, not the methods they use. Do they even know what they want, that is realistic? No one in Israel has any idea what practical demands will satisfy them, only speculations. People will not "try and see" when their lives are at stake.
Their situation now is far worse than in 1995. Not that the Israeli goverment is the brightest, but the Israelies have been in a not very different situation 60 years ago and also fought dirty like some people love to mention. The difference was that Israeli leaders managed to make the right decisions in the critical moments that achieved at least their high priority goals, without sacrificing the population. Minor organizations were put on a leash, some compromises were made and still nothing came by right or by the kindness of the world. The UN may have voted for a Jewish state, but they still had to fight it out - wisely! in order to come out with something. Not shooting in all directions.
The palestinians kick, screem and blame Israel but do little to help themselves. I'm an Israeli but I support palestinian cause. Still, they keep banging their heads against the walls till they faint every time they are not pleased with something. No plan, no purpose, no organization. I'm also pretty sure that they will not ask of my opinions before they blow up the bus I'm on. They still haven't figured out that it is the Israeli voters that they need to convince, not the world.
They have some very talented individuals, but they are pathetic as a nation and that is frustrating.
Damn good post.
S!
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
I personally suspect that the majority of europeans are anti-semitic, even just at a subconcious level. This has nothing to do with the arabic invasion of europe.
Nice attempt at a derail/troll. Scores 0/10, try harder next time.
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Momus, shush... you should be in awe, those two are EXPERTS on Yurop and Yuropean matters, they know it because they saw it on TV, IT's ALL TRUE!!!
"Zemmel" is what describes them best.
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Israelis are no better. Both sides feed radicals There are no good/bad guys there.
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Originally posted by Saintaw
Momus, shush... you should be in awe, those two are EXPERTS on Yurop and Yuropean matters, they know it because they saw it on TV, IT's ALL TRUE!!!
"Zemmel" is what describes them best.
I've spent enough time in Europe, and have known enough Europeans that I don't have to watch TV to feel like I have some insight into their attitudes. Although all of Europe can hardly be lumped into a sigle population, I'd like to see you argue that the French and the Germans, at the very least, aren't Anti-semetic at their core.
As for TV, I think that if anything, that which you just accused me of is something most of the enlightened Europeans here do in regards to the US and Israel every day.
Since I've never met you, I don't know what word describes you best.
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Originally posted by Momus--
Meanwhile, Israeli Textbooks and Children’s Literature Promote Racism and Hatred Toward Palestinians and Arabs. (http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0999/9909019.html)
Israeli school textbooks as well as children’s storybooks, according to recent academic studies and surveys, portray Palestinians and Arabs as “murderers,” “rioters,” “suspicious,” and generally backward and unproductive.
It's not difficult to understand why they would believe this based on the many assaults they have suffered over the decades. Furthermore, the op link does very little to disuade this sort of thinking. I think Iran joined the "backward" nations when their leader recently declared they have no right to exist.
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Murderers, rioters, suspicious, and generally backward and unproductive.
Ok, here's an experiment, let's try to state the opposite, and see if it sounds right:
Arabs and Palestinians are peace-loving, society-respecting, honest, generally advanced and productive.
Sure, the Israelis may not be be the most cuddly people out there, but perhaps that should be attributed to their geography, more than their nature. Being surrounded by hostile nations, and outnumbered 10 to 1, tends to divide people into two distinct categories--aggressive, and dead. And even so, at the very least, nobody can reasonably claim that the Israelis aren't generally advanced and productive.
What's the Arabs' excuse?
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Well Nashwan, not too surprised to see that you haven't changed your mind about Israel's "illegal" occupation of non-sovereign territories captured in war.
Quick question: What, pray tell, are you Tommies doing in Basra? Did you have missiles falling on Cardiff like we do on S'derot and Ashkelon? No, you say?!?
I would have imagined that three years ago or so you would have lowered your flag of Wales to half-mast to identify with the Iraqi Shi'ites you've occupied, who were/are the citizens of a sovereign nation. Or, perhaps you have a different opinion about the UK and Basra? Hummm, what's that saying, "He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone."
By the way, I read the article from Ha'aretz that you cite to compare the indoctrination to Shahada encouraged by the PA to what's going on in Israel. Tsk, Tsk, mate, not a very convincing article for your cause. Two Israeli kindergartens were found, by surprised parents, and without sanction of the Tel Aviv municipality, to have encouraged marching, saluting, playing with toy swords, etc. Hardly the PA's inculcating the love of death by martyrdom indicated by the articles cited above by PMW. Moreover, if Ha'aretz quoted Israelis who said, as you say, "kill as many Arabs as possible.", "For me, kill at least 10" and "Ignore the laws and spray them" then Ha'aretz did it precisely to warn the vast majority of Israel about the dangers of the radical right. Mate it seems to me that you pull fringe comments to compare with what the PA itself sponsors in the media.
This morning on the way to work I heard a radio interview on the popular show of Gabi Gazit with one of Israel's Arab Knesset members and an Israeli Jewish member debating the pros and cons of the bill that would outlaw open support or contact by Israeli parliamentarians with known terrorist organizations (Hamas). How 'bout that, open debate in Israel about contacts with terrorists. And up till now the Arab Knesset members can contact Hamas with impunity.
One other thing. BeTzelem that you reference is a Hebrew word for "In the Image (of God)" and comes from the book of Genesis. Israeli Jews and Arabs and others make up the organization with this name and focus their work on the territories. Imagine that, an organization in Israel that is extremely critical of many aspects of Israel's government policy. Wonder if Mubarrak, or Abdullah, or Assad, or the Saudies, or the Iranians, or even the PA, would ever let their citizens form a watchdog organization that levels severe criticism against their respective regimes, maybe, for example, with respect to their treatment of indigenous minority Christian and Jewish populations.
I would nevertheless agree with your comment,
"The whole situation is a lot more complex than Israel = good, Palestinians = bad. Whilst that sort of attitude prevails, peace isn't very likely."
But I would add, that when someone on the left like Shimon Peres who has gone the extra ten miles for the sake of the Palestinians can say, "The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity," then perhaps there are not a whole lot of options available to Israel, especially when Hamas refuses to acknowledge the very existence of Israel.
Best regards mate.
Cement
P.S.
The charitable organizations listed by the Washington Report do not inspire a lot of confidence about an objective viewpoint regarding Israel.
http://www.washington-report.org/charorganizations/index.htm (http://www.washington-report.org/charorganizations/index.htm )
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I just feel it is my humble opinion that the palistinians lost any and all attachment to "victom status" when they started blowing up busses and cafes full of civilians.
As long as you have tactics like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_beach_massacre **
your going to have the pure desperation of a childrens crusade: strapping bombs in some cowardly indiscriminate attack when you enemy does you the same....**
(Note this tactic currently ended the Hamas 16 month ceasefire, groundbreaking for Hamas I might add... leading to the soldier kidnapping, leading to the cluster going on in Gaza.. The "Powerstation attack".. was a war crime violation as per international law.....Even neutral Switzerland is like wtf on the international docket..)
Palistine coward tactics are not much unlike the the shelling of a beach with 155's with no video spotter proving the hostilities of a family of 8...(and losing 4th gen I might add on a world level..)
Gun, its real simple... have 3 continents forming to one and your going to have conflict.. I got over 4500 hundred years of recorded history backing that.. Romans, Assyrians, Phonecians, Hittites, Ottomons list goes on and on..(modern British etc..) everybody wants a piece, everybody fails..
These people hate eachother, been hating eachother since the time of Canaan, and will continue to hate eachother.. I have no problem with that.. thats human nature.. My only gripe is the cowardly tactics used by both sides and then all of the bellyaching back and forth of who's taking the high ground over who's attack was more heinous...
Both sides are equally cowardly... There is no high ground...
DoctorYo
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Originally posted by DoctorYO
As long as you have tactics like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_beach_massacre **
Not to nitpick, but it hasn't been proved the IDF did that. It even says in the wiki article that HRW's report couldn't disprove the IDF's investigation showing they didn't do it.
Doesn't really matter though anymore if it deliberate or accidental by the IDF, or even if Hamas marty'd their own people to break down the ceasefire they don't want.
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Originally posted by DoctorYO
As long as you have tactics like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_beach_massacre **
DoctorYo
Did you read that article? Sure, they could be lying but is there ever any doubt at all when hamas blows up a bus or cafe filled with civilians? They always seem eager to take the credit.
"An IDF investigation into the deaths concluded, on 13 June 2006, that one piece of shrapnel removed from the body of Amneh Ghaliya did not match the metal signature of Israeli munitions, and that IDF shells or missiles would have left larger craters than found on the site of the incident.[10] The report suggested the blast was probably caused by an explosive device buried in the sand, but did not determine whether it was planted by Palestinians (as the IDF committee head speculated but could not confirm) or was an old IDF explosive.[11]"
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Yup, what they said doctoryo. I don't firmly beleive that Israel didn't do that but there's no real conclusion that they did......wich is basically what your wicki-link says.
And as stated by me earlier these types of aleged incidences are the exception and not the rule where as the opposite is true of whom they are fighting. Hamas and others INTENTIONALLY target civilians. This is a TACTIC of theirs. BTW they withdrew from their 16 month sease fire that they regularly violated by launching rockets into israel. Not much of a cease fire eh?
It also states on their that:
Palestinian doctors at Shifa hospital in Gaza, who had treated a woman wounded during the blast, had made unnecessary cuts all over her body in an effort to remove all the surgically reachable shrapnel. The spokesperson for the medical center said that the hospital called "had never received such a patient with all the reachable shrapnel removed."
Did you even read your propaganda before posting? It doesn't do well to proving any kind of argument you are making.
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Originally posted by DoctorYO
(Note this tactic currently ended the Hamas 16 month ceasefire, groundbreaking for Hamas I might add... leading to the soldier kidnapping, leading to the cluster going on in Gaza..
Hamas may have announced cease fire, but the other organizations didn't and were firing rockets at Israeli villages and towns around Gaza. That include Hamas members, they were just not officialy doing it in the name of Hamas.
The soldier kiddnaping is a good example of stupid palestinian moves. The Hamas officialy declared that they didn't give the order and is not reponsible. Some bunch of military operatives came up with this initiavite and got them all into this mess they are looking for a way out of.
What did they expect? Israel usually retaliate very heavily for such actions. Kiddnapind is considered much more severe than killing him on the spot. Add to that the hundreds or rockets fired at the town of Shderot in the last few months and Israel could not sit back and play the stand-off game any more.
The military activists just didn't take that into account or cared. They do "heroic" attacks on Israel, what does it matter if it is wise? It just seemed like a good idea at the time...
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Yes Neubob, you do sound like a yuropean expert indeed... some punks dug out graves* and that makes an entire population anti-semitic. I can't speak for germany mysef as i haven't been there... as far as france goes, they are not anti-semitic, they are just affraid of the rest of the world... just like you fickle republicans.
* Not that I condone such things.
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Originally posted by Saintaw
Yes Neubob, you do sound like a yuropean expert indeed... some punks dug out graves* and that makes an entire population anti-semitic. I can't speak for germany mysef as i haven't been there... as far as france goes, they are not anti-semitic, they are just affraid of the rest of the world... just like you fickle republicans.
* Not that I condone such things.
Ok, I suppose I'm a European expert then. I am not, however, a Republican.
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First the Wiki article is pretty fair and balanced thats why I put it up.. Upon reading the entire information by google search on "Palestine Beach Massacre" there are plenty of more biased sources on both sides if you plan to actually research something instead of being lazy and and only reading the condensed wiki entry... (and cherry picking the parts you like then claiming propaganda..)
Nevertheless, Bozon has some good points on rocketfire.. but when researching the amount of destruction and effectiveness of such rocketfire I have found such devices as ineffective / lacking.. The stats I pulled up were 15 dead in 5 years.... And now a claimed threat of Katyusa's as opposed to that oversized bottle rocket the Kassam... But again the results i have researched are some property dammage 15 dead and a few score wounded... in 5 years , The USA murder rate was higher than that in one month.. But that justifies cowardly attack on civilian targets, the most recent being the power station, Such actions forms a clear pattern of violation of the geneva coventions.. the same governing international bodies/treaties that helped grant Israel its State Hood.. Ironic no? (By all means secure the power station, use it as a bargaining chip, but blowing it up.. bad form..)
Im not taking sides both parties have no honor.....just pointing out the facts ..
there are always two sides of a conflict some here were construing it otherwise.
My advice if there is any to give is either get it over with mongol style.. (pyriamid of heads quelled bagdad real quick if you know your history...)
Or offer eachother the olive branch... And a big fat wall would also help (be shure its drawn up on international historical standards, not the recent spoils of war standards though..)
But this "I claim the high ground" has to go.. its rather hollow...
DoctorYo
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just wondering, who do you think will rebuild that power plant? who do you think will pay for it? Do you think it will be bigger and better than the one destroyed?
the pals allow the militants to screw the pooch everytime they get close to what they are whining for. Heck they elected terrorists to govern them ... that speaks volumes .. any pity for them as long since vaporized just like the women and children that happened to be too close to one of the national hero pal cheekbones bombers..
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My statement says nothing of pity.. just the facts.. and the facts are clear there is no high ground on either side..
why can't you accept that statement.. brutal truth?
DoctorYo
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Oh, so they destroyed the power plant in order to build a bigger, better one. I get it now! It's all for Palestine's good! WHAT WAS I THINKING!? *Smacks forehead*
Heck they elected terrorists to govern them
That is indeed something that puzzles me, I have to admit.
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what "truth"?
if you can't see a difference btwn the pals ways and Israel's then I guess you have your "truth"
the pals are like the muslim extremists, it is their way or no way ... I do not hear the gov of Israel stating to the world that all palestines should be pushed into the sea but I do hear the pals shout that mantra and not just the uneducated ppl on the street but their leaders proclaim that and believe it ...
sorry, I do see a higher road and the pals are doing everything not to take it ..
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I think there may be another key difference between the Israelis and the Palestinians...
The Israelis would benefit from peace. They would go on working, living, with any luck, perhaps even growing. The Palestinians, on the other hand, without continued hostilities, would lose their only method of attracting the world's attention, not to mention the sympathy that comes with it. They need their Martyrs working around the clock just like the prosperous Arab nations need their oil fields. Without the martyrs and their bomb-belts, the Palestinians have no voice, no face and no reason to wake up in the morning.
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Eagler dont get all huffy puffy:
one more time, spoon fed this time for non reading impaired.. :
First Post:
Both sides are equally cowardly... There is no high ground...
Second Post:
But this "I claim the high ground" has to go.. its rather hollow...
And last but not least consolidated, there should be no rebuttal, or heresay.. :
My statement says nothing of pity.. just the facts.. and the facts are clear there is no high ground on either side..
Now by deductive reasoning you would think my statements ended with the same freaking statement.. no confusion no rebuttal.. just the facts..
And hence the "Brutal Truth" you are unwilling to accept..
Instead you go on your discredit campaign and as usual I spoon feed it so that even a "simian of the year canidate" can rationalize.
So is there still confusion?
You act as if I condone either party.. My initial post was clear by my use of the word "cowardly"... but yet you try to invent conflict... as if im cheerleading the terrorists..your attack engine is feeble and easily parried. your not much different than the palestinians.
rebuttal..?
Or do you prefer more ownage..
DoctorYo
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not huffy here yo
you say there is no diff bwtn the pals and the israelis, I say there is
you say there is no high road, I say there is and Israel is on it while the pals try to pull them and anyone who wants to help them down into the ditch beside that road ..
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
(http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/PalestinianChildAbuse/pal-child-abuse-94.jpg)
(http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/PalestinianChildAbuse/pal-child-abuse-95.jpg)
(http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/photos/lynch-child-gaza.jpg)
This little girl, the same age as Gal Aizenman, is taking part in a “graduation exercise” at a kindergarten run by the “Islamic Charitable Association” in Gaza. She is commemorating the ghastly lynching of two Israeli reservists in Ramallah.
(http://homepage.mac.com/cfj/.Pictures/baby-gunman-01.jpg)
A photo discovered by the IDF in a routine search of a Palestinian house on the outskirts of Hebron
Looks like an NRA convention, just been out in the sun too long...
Problem with people owning firearms?
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Looks like an NRA convention, just been out in the sun too long...
Problem with people owning firearms?
Show me where an NRA convention slapped explosives to a kid or had them dip their hands in simulated blood?
Last time I checked the NRA teaches gun safety to kids, not martyrdom. Or can you seriously not see the difference?