Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: xrtoronto on July 03, 2006, 11:40:27 AM
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Sun Jul 2, 11:12 PM ET
LONDON (AFP) - People in Britain view the United States as a vulgar, crime-ridden society obsessed with money and led by an incompetent president whose
Iraq policy is failing, according to a newspaper poll.
The United States is no longer a symbol of hope to Britain and the British no longer have confidence in their transatlantic cousins to lead global affairs, according to the poll published in The Daily Telegraph.
The YouGov poll found that 77 percent of respondents disagreed with the statement that the US is "a beacon of hope for the world".
As Americans prepared to celebrate the 230th anniversary of their independence on Tuesday, the poll found that only 12 percent of Britons trust them to act wisely on the global stage. This is half the number who had faith in the Vietnam-scarred White House of 1975.
A massive 83 percent of those questioned said that the United States doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks.
With much of the worst criticism aimed at the US adminstration, the poll showed that 70 percent of Britons like Americans a lot or a little.
US
President George W. Bush fared significantly worse, with just one percent rating him a "great leader" against 77 percent who deemed him a "pretty poor" or "terrible" leader.
More than two-thirds who offered an opinion said America is essentially an imperial power seeking world domination. And 81 per cent of those who took a view said President George W Bush hypocritically championed democracy as a cover for the pursuit of American self-interests.
US policy in Iraq was similarly derided, with only 24 percent saying they felt that the US military action there was helping to bring democracy to the country.
A spokesman for the American embassy said that the poll's findings were contradicted by its own surveys.
"We question the judgment of anyone who asserts the world would be a better place with Saddam still terrorizing his own nation and threatening people well beyond Iraq's borders," the paper quoted the unnamed spokesman as saying.
"With respect to the poll's assertions about American society, we bear some of the blame for not successfully communicating America's extraordinary dynamism.
"But frankly, so do you (the British press)."
In answer to other questions, a majority of the Britons questions described Americans as uncaring, divided by class, awash in violent crime, vulgar, preoccupied with money, ignorant of the outside world, racially divided, uncultured and in the most overwhelming result (90 percent of respondents) dominated by big business.
c&p (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060703/od_afp/britainuspopularitypoll;_ylt=Am8OCAPvdT9ZFR8x40pRCphvaA8F;_ylu=X3oDMTA0cDJlYmhvBHNlYwM-)
Does this story surprise anyone else?
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It "suprised" you?
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
Does this story surprise anyone else?
I don't think I would describe Americans as "uncaring."
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Everybody also thinks they're a great driver, and that everybody else on the road is a moron. :lol
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LOL indy, you're 100% spot on that one :D
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Originally posted by Saintaw
It "suprised" you?
this did:
As Americans prepared to celebrate the 230th anniversary of their independence on Tuesday, the poll found that only 12 percent of Britons trust them to act wisely on the global stage. This is half the number who had faith in the Vietnam-scarred White House of 1975.
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A massive 83 percent of those questioned said that the United States doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks.
[/B]
I think that part is spot on; why should we care what the rest of the world thinks? They haven't cared what we think, or seemed to acknowledge the fact that our militaries (all those fighting the radical muslims) are keeping us all safer. Just wait until we bring all our troops home & the doves prevail, we'll see more attacks & probably bigger than we did on sept. 11th, I just hope it's in a different country so we can sit back and act smug when they need our help (of course we'll help them, we are honor bound to help our allies)
The spanish had little to do with global events & they were attacked. Why? because the opportunity presented itself for the radical muslims to attack a society that isn't muslim & that's the only reason. Anyone could be next...apparently even fellow muslims if they aren't radical enough.
Everyone needs to come down off their high horse and smell the coffee burning, Bush has done an excellent job of keeping us safe, I fear what the next putz is gonna let happen to us.
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That horse of yours is pretty tall.
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Originally posted by Sandman
I don't think I would describe Americans as "uncaring."
I really don't care what you don't think...;)
>edit... the c & p link no worky..... where did "cruel" come from?
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"People in Britain view the United States as a vulgar, crime-ridden society obsessed with money and led by an incompetent president whose
Iraq policy is failing, according to a newspaper poll."
I wouldn't classify all Americans as vulgar....that is waaaay over the top.
Crime-ridden? Yes and no. The UK has its own crime issues.
Obsessed with money? I guess...but so are most Brits I know.
"the poll showed that 70 percent of Britons like Americans a lot or a little"
This is why these type of polls are stupid.
Americans are vulgar and obsessed with money...but I like them. lol Ooookay.
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They haven't cared what we think, or seemed to acknowledge the fact that our militaries (all those fighting the radical muslims) are keeping us all safer.
The majority opinion in the UK is that American and British military action in Iraq is putting us more at risk. The parliament foreign affairs committee reported last week that they believed the threat of terrorism has increased because of the Iraq situation.
Just wait until we bring all our troops home & the doves prevail, we'll see more attacks & probably bigger than we did on sept. 11th,
Almost certainly. The Islamic extremists will be much stronger if we leave Iraq in it's current state than if we hadn't gone in at all, in much the same way they gained strength from the Russian invasion of Afghanistan.
The spanish had little to do with global events & they were attacked. Why? because the opportunity presented itself for the radical muslims to attack a society that isn't muslim & that's the only reason.
I thought it was more to do with them sending troops to Iraq, myself.
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People in Britain view the United States as a vulgar, crime-ridden society obsessed with money and led by an incompetent president
Define Irony for me please.
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not surprised. I think its actually kind of neat. Its a good maturing experience for americans to know that no one likes us.
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vulgar and coarse. yup. i'm tired of it too.
hap
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
With much of the worst criticism aimed at the US adminstration, the poll showed that 70 percent of Britons like Americans a lot or a little.
Sounds like we're all on the same page.
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Originally posted by indy007
Everybody also thinks they're a great driver, and that everybody else on the road is a moron. :lol
Well except in your case, you really do suck at driving :lol
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A foriegn poll about the US. Who cares.......
:p
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Originally posted by Maverick
A foriegn poll about the US. Who cares.......
The US export businesses and their employees.
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I have allways felt that the further we as Americans get away from what the brits think is ideal behavior.....
the better off we will be sooo..... in that respect this is a very positive poll.
lazs
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briton is a small island off the coast of france.
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"Oo ah the Britons?"
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don't care what the britons think either.
lazs
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I think these forums finally turned up the mastermind of the Madrid bombings & the British poll:p
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I'm an American, people either lovee me or hate me...or they think i'm O.K.
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
Britons questions described Americans as uncaring, divided by class, awash in violent crime, vulgar, preoccupied with money, ignorant of the outside world, racially divided, uncultured and in the most overwhelming result (90 percent of respondents) dominated by big business.
Most of that is true, but you could argue the same about any country in the world, not just America.
The New Orleans crisis covers most of the above statement alone.
It does make me laugh at how defensive Americans get when they are criticised though.
Oh, and Brenjan, incase you didnt realise that is a British poll and the British are currently in Iraq and Afghanistan fighting alongside American troops.
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Originally posted by Furball
It does make me laugh at how defensive Americans get when they are criticised though.
WE DO NOT GET DEFENSIVE!
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Can we have a poll saying what we think about the Britons?? Please! Please! Because if its at all negative, with the press being the press, it will HAVE to be true!!
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Originally posted by Furball
It does make me laugh at how defensive Americans get when they are criticised though.
Good one HM.
And Furby,
It does make me laugh at how defensive the British get when they are criticised though.
Two way street, dunt'cha know.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I really don't care what you don't think...;)
>edit... the c & p link no worky..... where did "cruel" come from?
try this link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060703/od_afp/britainuspopularitypoll;_ylt=Am8OCAPvdT9ZFR8x40pRCphvaA8F;_ylu=X3oDMTA0cDJlYmhvBHNlYwM-)
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generally, the british are the first to criticise themselves, barring a few examples on this bbs who see no wrong in our country.
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Bet the Brits would be shocked if they did a survey like that here.
"United Kingdom? Is that those boring losers from that boring rainy little island who take pride in kicking a ball around?"
"The English? We kicked their smelly ass's out of here, WOOT 4th of July"
"Brits? Egos bigger then their island, bad teeth, and smelly. Like mold, must be all the rain"
"Limeys? We can thank them for the boy band craze, they started it all with the beetles. "
"Oh yeah the brits sure did kick bellybutton a hundred years ago or so, do they even exist now though? Didnt they just become one more chunk of the socialist EU?"
"we totaly saved their ass's along with the French in WW2. Well WW1 as well really"
:D
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the above link doesn't work again...don't know why...if you are interested in seeing the original text:
go here (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/)
...it's part way down the page next to the picture of Ozzie & Harriet and the kids...
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Bet the Brits would be shocked if they did a survey like that here.
"United Kingdom? Is that those boring losers from that boring rainy little island who take pride in kicking a ball around?"
"The English? We kicked their smelly ass's out of here, WOOT 4th of July"
"Brits? Egos bigger then their island, bad teeth, and smelly. Like mold, must be all the rain"
"Limeys? We can thank them for the boy band craze, they started it all with the beetles. "
"Oh yeah the brits sure did kick bellybutton a hundred years ago or so, do they even exist now though? Didnt they just become one more chunk of the socialist EU?"
:D
If by "here" you mean these boards then yeah...that is what I would expect to see. I think you have summed up the usual brit bashing quite nicely. Congrats.
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you forgot the: -
"we saved your tulips during the war" statement
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Originally posted by Furball
you forgot the: -
"we saved your tulips during the war" statement
Thanks Furby! I fixed it;)
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So.......they conducted a poll about what they thought of the U.S.
Isn`t that special? :)
Polls usualy get the end result that was desired by those running it.
But more importantly I can`t see where it is worth the effort, no matter what the outcome.
It`s a non issue. One good point is the sand box that was was peed in was their own.
Big ole meany Evil U.S. Empire. We are the debul. :)
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Originally posted by Jackal1
One good point is the sand box that was was peed in was their own.
lol
wow...way to prove the point about being vulgar!:aok
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Originally posted by Curval
wow...way to prove the point about being vulgar!:aok
What do see as vulgar?
Prove what point? There is no point. It`s a non issue.
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I pesonally think it's noodle envy..I mean..They are a tiny country of islands..meanwhile we take up a good part of our continent..and then to top it off Florida dangles down there like a 360-Mile long phallus
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Originally posted by Jackal1
What do see as vulgar?
lol:aok :rofl
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I'm an American and I'm vulgar..but then again I'm a sailor...It's part of the job description.
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VULGAR WHEAT PILAF
2 c. vulgar wheat (best is Ala)
3 1/2 c. chicken or beef bouillon
3/4 c. butter
1 c. chopped celery and leaves
1 c. chopped green onions (tops too!)
1/2 c. chopped parsley
1 tbsp. lemon pepper
Salt
Use heavy skillet with lid. Saute onions, celery and parsley lightly in 1/2 cup of the butter, then add vulgar wheat and remaining butter. Stir until all is blended, lightly browned, about 5 minutes. Lower heat and add bouillon carefully, when mixture starts to boil lower heat to simmer and cover.
Cook slowly with tight lid, don't open, until all liquid is absorbed, about 35-40 minutes. Let set for about 5 minutes. More liquid can be added if not done or too dry. Serves 6-8. Good with Stroganoff or any substitute for potato.
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and yet I'm almost certain that if I crossed the puddle and stayed for a week I'd be treated with great english hospitality as usual. even so I could care less about world opinion, I have my own opinion about the rest of the world as well :aok
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Yawn.
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Originally posted by indy007
Everybody also thinks they're a great driver, and that everybody else on the road is a moron. :lol
You have a good point.
In my case it happens to be true. Everyone else on the road IS a moron.
But other then that you have a good point
The idea we dont care what the rest of the world thinks is a misconception.
Personally I think we care too much what the rest of the world thinks.
Our problems in Iraq could be ended very quickly if we didnt care so much.
Myself personally I couldnt possibly care less what the rest of the world thinks.
If I were in charge it would go like this.
I beleive in total war
Problem with insurgents in a town and think the townspeople may be helping them. Make the town go away. That simple.
Cut off their food and water suppplies, destroy their homes and cities.
Astounding how co operative the starving can become
Make war so terrible for them. So horrific The last thing they want to do is fight.
That is what they are trying to do when they broadcast beheadings and such.
that is what our own media does when 95% of what they broadcast is the negative.
Thing that kills me too is they way people are.
Had everything gone perfectly in Iraq. "Boosh" would have been able to do whatever he wanted. Turn to Syria,Iran Even Isreal and Palastine and Saudi Arabia had he wanted. And so long as he kept winning. He would have been hailed as a world hero for cleaning up the middle east.
Why? because people love a winner. They want to be associated with a winner.
When a sports team...ANY sports team starts winning and winning championships. Doesnt it always amaze you how all of a sudden everyone is a fan of that team? They seem to practically Crawl out of the woodwork.
Now doesnt it amaze you just as much how when that team starts loosing or not doing as well, Having a tough time of it.
How all those fans seem to dissapear?
Nobody wants to be associated with them anymore. Those "Rah Rahs" turn into "boos"
Same thing with world opinion. So long as your winning and winning decisively. Your a hero. Soon as you stumble a bit. Your a rat.
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WE ARE NOT VULGAR>>>>BURP>>>>FART...
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but then again I'm a sailor...It's part of the job description.
Damn straight!
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I rather like the vulgar unedumacated stupid don't-care Americans.
It's the educated idiots that give the rest a bad name.
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If I understand these poll results correctly, 7/10 Britons enjoy the company of obnoxious vulgar people and don't particularly mind that we steal their wallets and shoot at them when they visit Los Angeles, while 2/3 polled fully expect Americans to take a more proactive stance on shooting and robbing people by annexing England (which we can't find on a map).
:lol
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Why shouldn't the "britons" percieve us as cruel, and vulgar? That's how our media portrays us.
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Im a dovoted American, and yet i agree with them. George W. Bush is giving us a bad name. I dont think its us as citizens they dislike, it our administration, which i agree with 100%
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As an American living in Europe, I will say this much,
Bush as done more damage to the US reputation in the last 5@6 years than any other president in history. granted he has had a few bright moments but in general he is a loser.
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Heater, can i come join you? Where in europe do you live? Long as it isnt france, its better than here.
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Ever been to France ?
I mean aren't you speaking out of your a** ?
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Bet the Brits would be shocked if they did a survey like that here.
In what way? Britain receives three million American visitors every year. It would be more, but the passport issuing authority can't keep up the pace! :lol And it helps if you get more than 2 weeks off work each year! :D But the ones that do come here, they bloody love us! I had lunch with two Yanks just recently. I think they found London quite exciting after Bloomington, Indiana. "we totaly saved their ass's along with the French in WW2. Well WW1 as well really"
Not "totally". The attempted invasion of Britain, ie the Battle of Britain, was fought in 1940 without American assistance. America was a neutral country back then. And then came the B17 raids on Europe. Did Roosevelt think there was oil down there or something? ;)
I tend to agree with Heater. ^ I'm not one for being critical of foreign governments, except in extreme cases, but a lot of the ill feeling being described in this thread can be ascribed directly to Bush. "We will prevail" - who's a pretty boy then?
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See Rule #4, #5
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Originally posted by Reynolds
See Rule #4, #5
I am this very ONE you're speaking about ?
Are you aware that your post is very offensive ?
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Straffo, Reynolds is like 12 years old...
Just ignore him.
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Beetle,
As justifiably proud as you are of Britain's Finest Hour, you weren't fighting totally alone during the summer of 1940. A substantial number of the pilots who fought in the Battle of Britain were foreigners: Poles, Czechs, French, Americans, Belgians, and several others.
In addition, Roosevelt's administration was doing everything it could, in the face of opposition from a powerful isolationist and pacifist movement, to funnel arms, ammunition, and fuel to England.
So you get 3 million American tourists a year in England eh? So what. Arkansas, the smallest state west of the Mississippi, and one of the poorest, gets over a million tourists a year. Neener neener neener.
I've been to London twice. Nice place...but there aren't enough trees, there are too many people, and you can't hunt in the city limits. How uncivilized. :D
Regards, Shuckins
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What the heck is in Arkansas that makes it so special to tourists, a Smokey and the Bandit statue?
Anyways on a serious note, what really does bring in that much tourists?
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Originally posted by Reynolds
George W. Bush is giving us a bad name.
With countries that would rather stick their head in the sand and ignore glaring problems and those who have had a biscuit in their hands sopping out of our gravy bowl.......................ye s he certainly is.
Isn`t it Great?
Finaly a Prez who has the intestinal fortitiude to actualy do what needs to be done with OUR country`s best interest instead of trying to please and babysit the snivlers.
I belive that , finaly, it is sinking in that the guy actualy meant what he said in his statement to the fact that the time is now for other countryies around the world to make a choice.......either true allies or not.
For once our prez made it clear without sugar coating things or negotiating on things that concern our country and those of the world.
Make a decision......get in or get out. Saddle up or leave the horse in the stable.Your choice plain and simple. Along with that choice comes benefits or loss. It doesn`t matter either way. We are doing what has to be done with or without you.
The main thing...No More Free Rides.
The big dog who pulls most of the load of the sled will usualy bite the less load bearing ones of the pack and send them whimpering to the side to wait their time at feeding time. Gotta pay to play. You bet their gonna whimper and pee their legs.
I personaly didn`t have a great liking for Bush during his campaign nor the first of his service as Prez. When it came time for action for our country in a time of most urgent means, he took the choice to do what was best for OUR country and the world, no matter who wished to snivel and debate it. My opinion of him became quite different then. True colors. American colors. They don`t run.
I can only hope we see even more and more of the regaining of pride in our country in the future.
I realize that you are thirteen. You have made some pretty heavy statements concerning the country in which you reside, one of which is ...
Heater, can i come join you? Where in europe do you live? Long as it isnt france, its better than here.
I am curious as to what one so young, living in the greatest, proudest country on the face of the earth, has came to play in making such a statement.
What are you basing your obviously low opinion of the U.S. on?
Are they your true feelings or someone elses?
I`d like to ask you to consider doing this........take a little time to make your own decision and not just accept someone elses. It`s easy to jump in the boat of those who do not care what the actual facts are...just as long as their boat is not being rocked at the current time with no consideration of what outcome will result in the future.
On this day, above all others it should be remembered that freedom is not free. It never has been and it never will be in the future.
Unlike the statement made above, I do not beleive the youth of our country should be ignored. They are our country`s future.
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Originally posted by straffo
Ever been to France ?
I mean aren't you speaking out of your a** ?
I went to france and it's true, the alligators dance.
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Originally posted by storch
I went to france and it's true, the alligators dance.
It's a legend !
Exactly like the "Snail Corrida" we never mistaken the tentacle with horns !
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Meatwad,
Never been here?
The northern part of the state attracts most of the tourists...but all areas have large, man-made reservoirs for fishing, swimming, and boating. Blanchard Springs Caverns are some of the most beautiful in the country. The Ozarks are especially scenic, cut through with valleys with natural springs and rivers...replete with well-kept camp-grounds. Folk festivals abound.
Silver Dollar City is a treat for the entire family...and is just a hop, skip, and a jump away from Branson, Missouri.
There is the Toad Suck festival near Conway...and the River Market area in Little Rock which draws large crowds during the Fourth of July and other holidays.
The Passion Play at Eureka Springs, with Thorn Crown Chapel and many small picturesque shops are popular attractions.
That enough?
Regards, Shuckins
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Arkansas has some of the most gorgeous land in the nation.... any nation...and... unlike some tiny little isles... the sun shines.
I like furbie...one of the few male brits I like... I am glad we saved the little island a couple of times for him...he is young tho so probly not brit enough yet.
I like the brit women pretty well too for the most part but they aren't as good as mexican women.
The food is terrible and... it is no mystery why another international poll voted brits "the most boring people on the planet". Every day... their lawmakers (like ours) try to find a new way to make things even more boring... the only difference between them and us is that they have a huge head start in boring.
lazs
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Loved eureka springs... what is the name of that big old hotel near there?
Unbelievable countryside.
lazs
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"Toad suck" festival?
And you call us odd? gee...
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(http://www.basinpark.com/photogallery/photogallery/uploads/1886%20Crescent%20Hotel%20&%20Spa/Exterior%20&%20Grounds/MVC-015S.JPG)
You mean the Crescent Spa and Hotel? This one?
Built in 1886...great place. Lots of atmosphere.
Regards, Shuckins
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Probably has nothing to do with the Colorado River Toad...
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/24/Bufo_alvarius1.jpg/250px-Bufo_alvarius1.jpg)
I think that is a toad licking festival....
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Toad Suck Daze is a large and popular music, arts, and crafts festival.
Part of the proceeds from it go to finance college scholarships for Faulkner County students.
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yep... that's the place... unreal. the views are fantastic too.
as for Bush destroying our "status".... who cares? the neatherlands? your-0-peeans? they are gonna hate us in any case.... it is mostly envy but it is also the fact that they are all dieing out and decadant socialists.
We simply aren't going socialist fast enough for em.
I hope that I, and my children and their children are long dead before the your-0-peeans socialists ever become happy with us.
lazs
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Oh my. The saving USA. Well, as I rather have the opinion that the USA has at times played the role ofthe cavalry, I must point something out. Well it has to do with WW2 and we should pay the tribute to WW2 by learning from it.
Here goes. Beetle said:
"Not "totally". The attempted invasion of Britain, ie the Battle of Britain, was fought in 1940 without American assistance. America was a neutral country back then. And then came the B17 raids on Europe. Did Roosevelt think there was oil down there or something? "
While this is true in a sense, it has a little thorn in it. Yes indeed the BoB was fought by the Brits as the only allied nation against the Nazis. The USA sold them fuel of good quality, - which they paid for. The Germans could have had everything too from the USA, but they couldn't pick it up. Bloody Royal Navy you see.
When the Lend-Lease pact got active it was 1941, it was by a very narrow margin. Imagine this is a pact of LEASING military equipment (of which- in the beginning- very much was obsolete) to the British. Without Roosevelt, it is doubtful that this would have happened! And to get it going, the USA sent a cruiser to Cape Town to pick up the first payment, - in Gold.
But yet, under the hat of Roosevelt, the USA made their side, and their first step is taking over the occupation of Iceland, already half a year before Pearl Harbour. The motive: while not at war with Germany, it was to secure trade routes etc etc, - basically extending their own perimeter. Well, a good thing, - the Uboats were being somewhat of a nuisance you see.
So, here's the punch. The USA doesn't get into war with Germany untill Germany declares war on the USA. (Tripact issue).
I wouldn't really call that saving someones arse. The Alamo there was Britain, and it held that time. Without it it's a What-if of all times. But again, bottom line, USA started their Allied campaign in WW2 by extending their perimeter and milking bucks and other accessories out of the United Kingdom while pondering on the issue of WW2. They did not enter the fight before being attacked and having war declared on them.
And a pic. The USA's expanded perimeter:
(http://cairsweb.llgc.org.uk/images/ilw1/ilw0267.gif)
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angus....most Americans viewed the your-0-peeans as barbaric, warlike socialists and tyrants who none the less, were still able to remain arrogant.
We watched their endless stream of violent and barbaric wars and wanted no part of it. It was never easy to tell the good guys from the bad and no form of government in yourup seemed worth defending in most of their conflicts...
lazs
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Heck. while looking up, I found this very good WW2 timeline cartoons. Here is the BoB ;)
(http://cairsweb.llgc.org.uk/images/ilw1/ilw0092.gif)
Link to the page:
http://www.llgc.org.uk/illingworth/illingworth_s040.htm
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Yeah yeah. Like I said...the powerful peace lobby in the United States delayed our involvement in the war. Yet, you can't really blame them for not wanting to get involved in another murderous conflict that wasn't on our doorstep.
And we did demand payment for the war goods we sold to the British...what ELSE were we gonna do...the nation was mired in the worst depression in its history. We couldn't AFFORD to just give it away.
Sure, there was some sympathy here for the Germans. We're not stupid...the German people had been ticked off about the unfairness of the provisions of the Versailles Treat for two decades...and they wanted a little payback. Who can say with a straight face that that abomination wasn't unfair. The seeds of WWII were planted in that document by David Lloyd George, Vittorio Orlando, and Georges Clemenceau.
Why SHOULDN"T we have been reluctant to get involved?
Bottom line...if the U.S. had maintained it's neutrality the war would have lasted another two to four years. What would have been some of the possible consequences of that? No second front would have developed...allowing the Nazis to fight the Bolsheviks to a standstill on the Eastern Front. This delay would have allowed Hitler to develop the atomic bomb, if he wanted it badly enough. Mass production of wonder weapons would have become a possibility, if not an iron-clad certainty.
Thus, it is highly probable that the Soviet Union would have fallen. Then where would the British have turned for help?
Regards. Shuckins