Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Yoshimbo on July 05, 2006, 01:20:16 PM
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before i start flying them i need to know...
1.) major differences between the J and the L, BESIDES the fact that the L has the dive brakes and different ordanence, I'm talkin Performance differences
2.)Stratagies, tactics, and maneuvers
3.) dos & don'ts
I have always loved the P38J, ever since i first saw a picture of one when i was twelve I fell in love with the plane. Speed, concentrated firepower, the secureity of 2 engines, and the ability to approach mach1 in a dive. (although u risk tearing the tail off) I love the p38, although strangely enough, I have yet to really sit down and fly the beauty, perhaps i'm little intimidated by this legendary bird, or maybe i just feel a little unworthy. Whatever the case i would really like to learn to fly this plane.
woe to my foes
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this link might help if it shows uphttp://members.shaw.ca/soda_p/models.htm (http://members.shaw.ca/soda_p/models.htm)
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soda has some points I don't entirely agree on, on several different aircraft. As such I don't rely on his webpage.
The best thing I can suggest is that you try them both. The L and the J are similar in speed. The top speeds are almost identical up to 15-20k, inside AH. However the J is a bit faster at fth. I think the L has better roll rate, and perhaps a few more horsepower, so it probably climbs better.
Try them and see if you can tell they're different. If you can't, then it doesn't matter which you take :)
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Yoshimbo, id suggest you hunt down the 38 jocks like 475th, 479th and 80th and fly with them. They are (almost ;)) all good guys and willing to share their knowledge, experience and their enthusiasm for the 38s.
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Originally posted by Yoshimbo
...and the ability to approach mach1 in a dive. (although u risk tearing the tail off)
The P-38 will not[/i] approach or break the sound barrier in a dive.
ack-ack
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I've flown mainly the G cause I love the look of the early 38s :)
G is probably the best down in the weeds knife fighter of the three.
I've been flying the L a bit lately just so I can keep up with the rest of the guys. I'm always dragging behind in the slower G.
The roll rate is nice in that one. Some of the guys I fly with, Delirium in particular, swear by the J while others like Raptor and Silat are L drivers.
How much fun you have depends on you I guess. I don't mind dying as I'm very good at it, so more then likely I'll be low and slow in a 38G. The best of the stay alive 38 drivers tend to keep the speed up and BnZ more often using the concentrated firepower in the nose to rip up the targets.
It's a fun bird to fly :)
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Our P-38L-5-LO has boosted aelirons, and dive recovery flaps.
Our P-38J-10-LO has neither.
P-38J and P-38L have nearly identical performance. Both are rated in the game for the same horsepower, but the L is slightly heavier. This should give a slight edge to the J in acceleration, and in sustained turns. However the difference is so small it should be all but inperceptable to any but the hard core 38 pilots.
The L with its boosted controls has an exceptional roll rate at higher speeds. Its rocket mounting configuration is the best of the three, and is least affected by aero and drag issues once the rocket load is all salvoed.
Know your ACM. A mistake in ACM choice in the 38 will be much more costly than it would be in a more nimble plane such as a spitfire or n1k. When I fill requests for P-38 training, I find that most actually need ACM training. The reason being is that they have been making those same mistakes in the more nimble fighters, but are able to recover from them out of sheer turn performance.
Use the vertical as much as possible. There are planes that the 38 cannot compete with in sustained flat turns, but when you add a vertical component to the turns, the match-up is much closer. Take advantage of the 38's zero net torque. The 38 can zoom down to 0 mph, while other fighters are fighting torque for control of their nose. Make the other plane turn aginst his torque when possible.
Feel free to check out the 479th Library (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=20) with over 40 films, 95% of which are P-38.
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yea i find myself doin things that soda say are impossible to do.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
yea i find myself doin things that soda say are impossible to do.
like turnfighting in an f4u-1d
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Originally posted by bkbandit
yea i find myself doin things that soda say are impossible to do.
Soda doesn't say anything is impossible. His site is designed (it seems) for the new guy coming up who wants to know this and that about the plane and get going with a chance of success.
The advice found on his site is sound if you want to get home each sortie. It stresses the basic strengths and weaknesses of each plane. Very good things to know.
Obviously, once you improve you can push the limit more/find out exactly where it is. Equally obvious is that should Soda tell a new guy to turnfight a Spitfire in his Corsair, the new guy's going to have some major problems. It doesn't mean a Corsair can't take on a Spit in a turnfight, but the average person who's just starting to take in the wealth of knowledge on the internet is not going to have a fun time trying it two or three weeks in.
Sometimes I do get the feeling that many people take the advice on netaces and Soda's a/c page as set in stone, unbreakable rules. Hence the continued "timidity" of many (older) pilots in the MA. However, everyone has to start somewhere, and, once again, turnfighting spits in a corsair is not the right place to do that.
What I'd really like to see would be a beginner, intermediate, and advanced write up for each plane. But then again someone has to write all that, and I'm sure as heck not qualified.
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I've been checking out Soda's site these last few days...i find the write ups excellant and very informative(& helpfull...even for a "vet")..:aok
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The P-38 will not approach or break the sound barrier in a dive.
ack ack
ahem...
-When earlier J-series Lightnings went into a high speed dive, their controls would suddenly lock up when a certain speed was reached and the nose would begin to tuck under, making recovery from the dive very difficult. The problem would begin at Mach 0.65 to 0.68, accompanied by vigorous buffeting and a strong nose-down pitch...At Mach 0.72, dive recovery became for all practical purposes impossible,
-Late production P-38Js also finally ameliorated the compressibility problem through the introduction of minor aerodynamic changes, particularly the addition of a set of small dive flaps just outboard of the engines on the bottom centerline of the wings. With these improvements, a USAAF pilot reported a dive speed of almost 970 km/h (600 mph) and recovered in one piece.
-They tested a scale model P-38 in the Ames Laboratory wind tunnel operated by the NACA (National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics) and found that shock waves formed when airflow over the wing reached transonic speeds and became turbulent.
sources:
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p38_13.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P38 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P38)
http://www.aviation-history.com/lockheed/p38.html
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Originally posted by Yoshimbo
ahem...
-When earlier J-series Lightnings went into a high speed dive, their controls would suddenly lock up when a certain speed was reached and the nose would begin to tuck under, making recovery from the dive very difficult. The problem would begin at Mach 0.65 to 0.68, accompanied by vigorous buffeting and a strong nose-down pitch...At Mach 0.72, dive recovery became for all practical purposes impossible,
-Late production P-38Js also finally ameliorated the compressibility problem through the introduction of minor aerodynamic changes, particularly the addition of a set of small dive flaps just outboard of the engines on the bottom centerline of the wings. With these improvements, a USAAF pilot reported a dive speed of almost 970 km/h (600 mph) and recovered in one piece.
-They tested a scale model P-38 in the Ames Laboratory wind tunnel operated by the NACA (National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics) and found that shock waves formed when airflow over the wing reached transonic speeds and became turbulent.
sources:
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p38_13.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P38 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P38)
http://www.aviation-history.com/lockheed/p38.html
Ahem...what you are describing are the effects of compressability. The airflow[/b] over the leading edge reaches critical mach but not the plane itself. That's why the dive flaps were added to the P-38L to change the airflow over the wing.
ack-ack
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I see what your sayin, I must of missunderstood some of the stories and things I've heard, i always took it as the actual plane itself as approaching mach 1.
say, from how high do you think I would have to dive to really get the whole actual plane to really approach mach1? provided the tail stays intact.
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Originally posted by Yoshimbo
I see what your sayin, I must of missunderstood some of the stories and things I've heard, i always took it as the actual plane itself as approaching mach 1.
say, from how high do you think I would have to dive to really get the whole actual plane to really approach mach1? provided the tail stays intact.
This is a great question for ACK-ACK
:D
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Originally posted by Yoshimbo
I see what your sayin, I must of missunderstood some of the stories and things I've heard, i always took it as the actual plane itself as approaching mach 1.
say, from how high do you think I would have to dive to really get the whole actual plane to really approach mach1? provided the tail stays intact.
Would never happen. Too much drag, and not enough thrust. Also keep in mind that when you see pilots reported xxxMPH indicated of this era, that ISA is derived from air pressure. When you have the transonic shock and turbulent airflow above critical mach, odds are that the IAS readings are being affected by this airflow and are not accurate.
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Just bumping into the thread to say thank you to Murd. I've been studying the P38 vids you posted they've been a big help. I still haven't figured out exactly HOW THE HELL you did some of that stuff, even watching it for the umpteenth time, but I'll figure it out eventually. Thanks for keeping us 38 noobs informed.
You too AckAck. :)
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soda is a great foundation to work from but u really cant live by it. one thing that should be in there is that the spit16 breaks very easy wit hi g turns, i noe this and use it to my advantage, i hav seen alot of them crumble up and fall.
p38 is a great plane, i dont fly them but i have fought alot of them. Learn how to use them flaps and u can turn on almost anyone, it has a great gun package good accel pretty durable(u can ride on one engine and still fight) and is still faster then the commeted turn fighters. IMO the views kinda suck but im pretty sure wit time u can work wit them. just when u turn u giv a pretty big flat target to hit. limit that and ur fine.
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p38s kill me all the time...I fear no plane more than the 38. I can't fly em I can't escape them. They are pure evil!
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Originally posted by lagger86
p38s kill me all the time...I fear no plane more than the 38. I can't fly em I can't escape them. They are pure evil!
If you're in a plane with a better climb rate, a good tactic to use is a spiral climb. While the P-38's vertical performance is probably the best in the game, sadly its climb rate isn't as good. Of course, if the P-38 has more energy than you do, a spiral climb isn't the tactic to use.
ack-ack
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I'd say hang with the squads, and pick the brains of the other 38 pilots. If you see any of the names yo see here in the thread that have resonded in the game, ask them to fly with you or tag along. Anybody that truly loves something will be glad to talk about it and give you pointers and appreciate your interest. :):D
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just take ur time and learn the plane, its a whole different animal then that zero u fly. Its great to see u get out of that thing, IMO p38 has WAAAYYYY more to offer then the zero, u could run jabo and kill gvs like a champ and fight wit the best of them, just dont give up on the plane. i had alot of rough days starting out wit f4u but wit time i learned wat she likes to do, im still havent everything but im no rookie. Pacific fighters are the best.
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This plane is the shiznite!
i find myself outmaneuvering sumplanes like the N1k1, sumthing i nvr expected to do in a p38, dives like a sun of gun, and climbs like a bat out of hell.
though i still die from time to time, I don't die as much as i would have flying sumthing else. that second engine has saved my neck a couple of times.
and that concentrated firepower is sumthin else, all u really seem to need is just a opening to shoot, and sumthing is almost garunteed to rip off.
keep the tips, and stratagies coming.:aok