Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: B@tfinkV on July 06, 2006, 07:08:40 PM
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(http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/cool_move.JPG)
coincedence or intentional?
i have the film to send to HT, but wanted your opinions.
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I'd have to see the film, but that looks like a stall/lucky recovery to me. Just follow the vector lines for each wing after the initial merge (low yoyo, roll to almost an immelman, then flat turn to crazy mess).
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I agree with Scrap on the F riding the stall but I'd say he's using heavy rudder and negative G to keep the plane "flying" below stall speed. Can you put up the film and a link to it?
Cheers,
asw
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Batty you know better, just send it in if you have a prob with it.
Bronk
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Appears what he is concerned about is the large latteral move indicated between frames 6 and 7. These are due to latency and the server smoothing code (see podcast #1 below). Whenever two planes get that close things can get a little wierd. If you looked at a film from your opponents point of view, the merge would be compeltely different.
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Looks like he was really lucky. Not a real move just stalled it and was set up for the shot. I think we have all done this before. Great Luck to have film running and i bet he cant do that in the da. Our in the next 3 months..
Name for this guy in the 109?
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I'm Dizzy, but looks like something Yucca's done to me before or something:D
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Owned:p
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Post the film man..post!
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Got to see the film from both players planes to tell what really happened.
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It looks like pure luck. Its happened to me, and I still ended up dying, but it seems like pure luck. From my experience NO 109 could do all of that in one fight, and remain smooth. But i could be wrong. If he was really in control when doing that, I want him to teach me to fly a 109!!!
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ya i was right next to batfink when that happend from my view batfink was about to shoot him then all the sudden it looked at though the 109f litterally LAGGED right onto his 6. i mean from looking at the pictures it lookes like he lagged. i mean theres know way he could have made that kind of sharp turn. like look at the 7th picture theres no way any plane can do that.
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haven't watched the film, but from the screenies...well....sorry Bat.
Unless the sharp angles mean warping (which you would have no doubt seen and recognized right away), and not to mean that I think the Franz was warpy. The fim viewer leaves alot to be desired especially with screen shots.
Looks to me that you were just "pwned"...The Franz deserves alot more respect than it normally gets. In the right hands it is a match for the early spits. (ever tie into one with Eagler at the controls?..it's a handfull).
cheers (just my $0.02)
RTR
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ohh ya and theres now way that could happen to batfink especially in a spit.
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lol, nah cat, i died alot. but this wasnt right.
no, ok, gotta show the film. Amazed how many of you missed the heavy sarcasm.
but this is a warp out of guns - back 200yrds - continue flying and shoot.
All those who say a verdict of PWNED, please regard the film and re evaluate
.....
i just want opinions on this film not the pilots or the planes or my combat descisions.
from the cockpit its hardly noticable.
now watch from external with trails on.
not accusing the pilot, just wondering how it could be so convinient....
LINK: http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/film125_0348.ahf
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LOL watch from cockpit with gun cam.
The 109 does some funky stuff.
Bronk
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I dont at the time have my film viewer, but from the screens, I still think its wierd too...
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To be hones with you Bat, I think that 109 was in a stall about the time you got up to him. He was doing about 50 something ias, and he was probably flopping hard to control it. Looks like he got some wind there just as you passed him and he got a lucky shot.
Wayched it externally and from pilot views on both sides..it almost looks like a warp, but the speed of the planes leads me to believe he stalled, auto slats came out and jerked him out of the way just in time and he was able to regain enough control to get some 20's on ya.
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oh man!!!
how can anyone not see this :huh
ok.....just so its blatantly clear....
(http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/warp.GIF)
i get killed alot, so its not about the unfair death.
I cant beleive yu say youve watched the film and still see no problem.
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dang bat i wish i would have said more its tobad i didnt tape it beacue i was looking right at it.
u cant c it from my screen which is tobad but if the guy was going 50 u say then he never would have been able to pull up into batfinks plane. personally when i saw it the guy clearly lagged right onto his 6. now i dont know if this was a glitch or what but something really wierd happend.
ohh nice batfink that screen view shows it PERFECT. THAT IS JUST HOW I SAW IT FROM MY PLANE
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see what?????:confused:
lol, just kiddin :D
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:huh
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coincedence or intentional?
Intentional.BLAUV showed me that move in the 109-G 10 a 1 1/2 ago.Works maybe 8 times out of 10.I have tryed that same move with every other fighter in the game and the 109 performs it the best, due too the DaimlerBenz Motor and the endlesss W.E.P.
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
Intentional.BLAUV showed me that move in the 109-G 10 a 1 1/2 ago.Works maybe 8 times out of 10.I have tryed that same move with every other fighter in the game and the 109 performs it the best, due too the DaimlerBenz Motor and the endlesss W.E.P.
:rofl get me one of those engine for my plane then plz.
lol, you'd best be jokin, look at the screen. pitts speacial wont do that with the best pilot in the world.
i was askin if the warp was coincedence or intention.
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Gets even better watch from 109 in external. Then slow it down to 1/4 speed with trail on. OMG jumps backwards.
Bronk
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
oh man!!!
how can anyone not see this :huh
ok.....just so its blatantly clear....
(http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/warp.GIF)
i get killed alot, so its not about the unfair death.
I cant beleive yu say youve watched the film and still see no problem.
That thing FREAKIN J-U-M-P-E-D BACK batfink!!! Seriously! Oh, and autopilot, can you show me that move too? I love me 109!
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that just doesnt look right .. and would be impossiable in Real flight ..
but then alot of stuff happens due to pc speeds... lag. latncy,routors, ..stick stiring ect .
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That was REAL lucky though... Hopefully we can have the guy who performed that maneuver tell us whether it was intentional, cheat, or just a damned lucky lag... if only... *hint* *hint*
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Looks like lag to me.. BTW batfink awsome animation.
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heh, thanks, i got the idea from BadBoy of the AH training corps.
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I think it was a lucky warp of the 109 immediately after Bat's overshoot. That's how it looked to me.
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negative brooke, look again, the warp occours first just before i open fire for a short burst at about 100 yrds.
first a small warp out of the guns, then the big jump backwards.
my realise if i had missed i would have overshot as i was traveling faster than the 109. but i would not miss from that range.
definitely warps out of the guns, then behind.
the warp out of the guns is where the 'cable is pulled' or the 'connection has a blimp'.....and then the reshuffle 200 yrds backwrds is the game re-correcting as the connection is resumed.
like losing udp for a few seconds then the computer placing you back where you lost it a few seconds ago.
If it was just a bad connection it should put the enemy back behind you where he was seconds ago???
also, if the connection warped and really he was stalling to enable an overshoot, then he would not come back going the same speed as me.
im sorry, but its very suspect, or very lucky.
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Um, yeah, Bat is right... something screwy here. 109's suck, and they seriously can't fly backwards. Wow.
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Oh come on now, lets not start this cable pulling thing again. The guy was in a stall situation, and happened to warp at the same time. He probably never saw any thing on his end but the stall itself, although clarification would be nice. We all know how wonky the film viewer is at showing that kind of thing. I'm sure the situation itself was a complete accident and he pulled out of the stall with Bat's plane in perfect position. He probably had no clue he warped at all.
Feel sorry for ya Bat but it happens to everyone eventually. Its just the nature of the beast.
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nm what I said before - the animation makes it pretty clear.... :o
asw
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Originally posted by Stang
Um, yeah, Bat is right... something screwy here. 109's suck, and they seriously can't fly backwards. Wow.
Hey! 109s dont suck!!! They ROCK!!! But they definately could not have done that. Ive tried things like that a lot. Never works.
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It's called the trychshothe, listen
Little bit left, twist, shoot!
Little bit left, twist, shoot!
Little bit left, twist, shoot!
That's how you do a trychshothe
Little bit left, twist, shoot!
Little bit left, twist, shoot!
Little bit left, twist, shoot!
That's how you do a trychshothe
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
negative brooke, look again, the warp occours first just before i open fire for a short burst at about 100 yrds.
first a small warp out of the guns, then the big jump backwards.
my realise if i had missed i would have overshot as i was traveling faster than the 109. but i would not miss from that range.
definitely warps out of the guns, then behind.
the warp out of the guns is where the 'cable is pulled' or the 'connection has a blimp'.....and then the reshuffle 200 yrds backwrds is the game re-correcting as the connection is resumed.
like losing udp for a few seconds then the computer placing you back where you lost it a few seconds ago.
If it was just a bad connection it should put the enemy back behind you where he was seconds ago???
also, if the connection warped and really he was stalling to enable an overshoot, then he would not come back going the same speed as me.
im sorry, but its very suspect, or very lucky.
Bat if it was warp that guy wouldv'e needed surround screen to see you trying to pick him off in fight with catfish. @nd i agree that it looks like stall flop and you over shoot. he happens to push stick down and omg there is your plane near stall right in front.
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I still think its a warp. In all the times ive stalled a 109 (Which is a lot) Ive never seen it stall quite like that. No, that was different. A normal 109 stall is either a roll to the left, a nose dive, or a plain old drop. Its never a snap-flat-turn like that. No, this is either a lucky warp, or something fishy, i think. Im not saying this is a cheat or anything, it just isnt a stall, and not nescisarrily intentional.
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Originally posted by rod367th
Bat if it was warp that guy wouldv'e needed surround screen to see you trying to pick him off in fight with catfish. @nd i agree that it looks like stall flop and you over shoot. he happens to push stick down and omg there is your plane near stall right in front.
dont be a total moron.
unless youre trolling to try make me react........?
how can that animation not show a warp out of guns to 200 yrds behind.
rubbish.
the warp is not in question at all, its if it was a trick or a fluke.
please let me reiterate that dying means nothing to me.
just seems a perfect example of 'he was right infront of me then 200 yrds back just like that'
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ah....i never saw the comic. i'll look out for it.
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Personally, i dont know the pilot so i couldnt say. It could just as easily be a fluke as intentional. If we knew the pilot, i might be able to guess, but i doubt it. I dont want to accuse an innocent person of cheating just because he got lucky.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
the warp is not in question at all, its if it was a trick or a fluke.
Batfink, how the heck do you expect the community to answer that question?
Send film to Skuzzy, they can see a lot more in film data then we. Discussing things like that on BBS will only get you banned (again).
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:rolleyes: keep it up schatzi, the mods might give you a medal, or even a job...
is this worse than the threads with all the unrelated wanking on about other stuff doesnt matter? even the stuff you yourself, and myself, and many others spend hours posting pointless replies about pointless topics?
this is importnant to our game.
i dont think any has documented a warp reversal move before.
I'm only asking for opinions, not flawless answers.
ah......forget it anyhow
couldnt give a damn if people can do this deliberate or not, most often i still kill them
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Scotty, warp speed 9
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Bat, not modding -- just common sense. You KNOW that if you have serious concerns about an event in AH, you HAVE to send it to them and you CAN'T get away with using the BBS about it. HTC has only a couple "third rail"* topics, and this is the one with the most current going through it.
It sounds like you're really P.O.'d about this one, and I've had anger/indignation get the better of me too -- but I'd suggest you back away from the situation. I dont care what's happened before, but I kinda like having this version of Batfink around on the boards.....this fight isnt worth it.
*didnt know if this was just a US term, but it refers to the subway rail that carries the power. So, "No one in congress wants to deal with Social Security deficits, because reducing benefits is a third rail topic."
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already gave up, honestly not POed bout it, and schatzi i wasnt tryin to be rude.
not even saying its a definite C word, just askin for opinions.
if im distressed about anything, its the fact that emails to HTC do nothing, and posting on the BBs gets you banned.
I have provided a situation, visual content to discuss.
opposing views have emerged.
surely this should be able to be talked about, without losing people to PNG..
its all a game just thought i had something worth going on about unlike most of the crap here.
people can have strong opinions without being personally affected, IE, i can hold this view on this topic but i can then forget about it and it wont affect me.
but....i geuss youre right sim, so im out. thanks for the heads up.
like the 3rd rail analogy, got it before you explained it :)
edit: taken the film out, if you know who the 109 is let it go please. thanks
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Wow, gotta' get me one of those 109s. :aok Definately something fishy going on there. Amazing how quickly he took apart your plane after the "warp", sure seemed prepared to fire on you.
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yup, hell of a goodshot :D
no further discussion needed
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hmm well from the short lil vid you posted batty, I come to these consclusions
A. ya had the shot at the get go....shoulda sprayed and prayed
B. he activated his uber ucantgetmesheilds JUSt in time and stopped your peeshooters
C he activated his uber antigravICAN FLY thingy
D. He got ya's :cry
kidding dude, seriously its odd BUT, thats part of this crazy arsed game we are all addicted to m8. send to HT let him judge it.
and as for ujustdied, if your plane was in the area when batty filmed we CAN see from your perspective, just jump into joos plane.
kinda looks like a warp,stickstirring, OMG imdead last ditch maneuver thingy and he got lucky.
P.s. been awhile bats and i was wondering iffen ya might wanna meet up in da DA, i been away and i need some practice to knock off these rusticles. plus my gunnery went south without me:confused:
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one last thing, i do that move ALL the time in 109's.....its not controlled flight, just me totally loosing it and it really looks like this chap did that and got lucky.
He prolly found out joos was flying the spit and it sceeered him SOOOO bad he lost control but still got off the lucky kill shot:noid
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warp on your side, wonder what his side looked like..
who was it?
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Originally posted by Kazaa
Scotty, warp speed 9
I canna do it Cap'n. She canna take anymore. :D
Bat, that was the most bizarre thing I've seen... but if the cable is pulled, wouldn't the plane keep on whatever current trajectory it would have gone on sans flight inputs, and with the flight model effects? I guess this would be a HTC thing.... but it wouldn't make sense if the plane just froze in midair or went backwards on a cable pull incident. My not-so-educated guess is that it's either a very clever hack or a really weird bug.
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Originally posted by WilldCrd
P.s. been awhile bats and i was wondering iffen ya might wanna meet up in da DA, i been away and i need some practice to knock off these rusticles. plus my gunnery went south without me:confused:
any time you need a target man, shout me.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
schatzi i wasnt tryin to be rude.
No offense taken Bat. You got PM.
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Originally posted by Kazaa
Scotty, warp speed 9
"I just can't do it... I don't have thee power"
:D
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Don't you just love the peeps that watch that and say, "I do that move all the time!" It is very clear that warpage occured as the 109 slid backwards 25 yards within a split second. All you morons that claim you do that move all the time I have but one thing to say to you, "Get a new connection, liar!" Bat, I have much more weird warps happen to me lately as I guess either more players are being concetrated or maybe the patch thingy. Had a yak warp through my plane and them back 400 yrds to start shooting at me. I turned and then he flew by me and I got a collisioin text. It sux but it happens quite often. I would send this one into HT just to see what they see in the data. Probably just going to say it was an internet fart or something which would be my diagnosis as well!
:aok
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Is it just me our is everyone having these small warps. Think it has something to do with all the newbs that have bad lag.
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Gremlins. Thats all I'm gonna say. Gremlins.
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Looks like the 109 reduced throttle and did a negative g barrel roll causing a overshoot.
Combine that with a lost packet or 2.
It's well known that when planes get real close weird stuff happens sometimes.
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Sorry, Bat, not enough here to call someone out IMO. It looks like he is already angle up, starts to stall and wobble. Probably goes nose up for a brief second just as the warp occurs, manages to get nose down as you fly by. With nose up he would decelerate rapidly, and if the warp happened just then, you would see him continue forward breifly before the lag "caught up".
I also get most of my lag / super ball bouncing on the windscreen right as D200 goes to D0 -- I think because of the additional detail his FE tries to send to yours regarding skins, squad markings, etc. It appears this is when it happened to you/him to.
Besides, I have seen stranger things -- P38s going into intentional nose-up stalls to shoot above and behind them, wingless Spits getting kills . . . strange things happen all the time. :D
(BTW, I am perfectly willing to be completely wrong on this, just going by the evidence presented.)
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I saw that and said " dude theres todd420 doin his move"
Like they said above its a move the 109 can do aND
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I found Stormdog...He's here he's there he's warping every where...Stoooooooooormdog lol
He said it happends when he changes view. :aok
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No offense Bat, you seem like a stable guy from what I've read in the forums, but it appears to me you just got shot down. It happens to me at least every other flight I make...when I have a P/C to play on that is. Some are out of this world manuevers & others are just well managed acm.
Someone told me "welcome to aces high, it's not real wind blowing past your cockpit; it's just electronic signals...there will be problems with the physics of it at times" In other words, the mathematical absolutes that govern the real world do not govern the digital one.
I do have to wonder what your opponents front end saw, I can't view the film on this P/C but I did see what was posted, who was in the 109?
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(http://forumspile.com/Thread-End_of.gif)
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For what is worth, I've found the same player flying an La today and he was badly warping, surely without any intention, he was going up and down, and here and there without any profit, so that he ended shot down repeatedly.
Imho it seems just a case of bad connection.
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thanks stegor, thats the kind of answer i was looking for.
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i would think that since bats has a film of this odd encounter that you could "jump" into to offending persons plane and "see" what everyting looked like from his front end veiw.
im downloading the film now and ill check this out.
and skyrock I do several maneuvers in 109's that are similer
its not skill, intention nor is it my connection. i just suck in lufftwable planes. I've never really gotten the hang of em...not that I've gotten the hang of any particular planeset but the 109's and 190's have always really given me trouble for some reason.
point is ....bah i forgot
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Good fight though. I agree with SIm though Bat, if you really have a concern let HTC know instead of posting a thread. See you in the skies.
But again, good fight, it seems stegor has seen the bad connect angle of it, so that seems like the unfortunate culprit.
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lol it looks like the hit the brakes mav move from top gun , but how did he have e to pull on yer 6 after that ?