Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Creamo on October 29, 2001, 12:50:00 PM
-
United (http://biz.yahoo.com/apf/011029/united_airlines_shakeup_3.html)
Send me 20% of your profits next year when the airlines fully recover.
-
Did you get a notice of intent to lay off?
-
Nope. They increased our workload.
-
Increase due to mothballing or prepping them for sale? Surely not due to more flights?
-
Oh, I see. I get it now, I thought you had something to add.
Not that your petty poke deserves a response, but I’ll fill you in.
We increased our heavy check where I work, that’s all. It’s station specific for cost logistics, which fortunately I’m benefiting from do to our location. Doesn’t matter. The airlines will fully recover within 12-18 months.
This “America will cease to function after Sept 11th, we will all stay at home in fear, all airlines will all go bankrupt, planes to mothballs, businessmen will never fly again, we’ll not visit family ever again it’s not safe, etc…” roadkill is tiring and completely false. A unnecessary and damaging rhetoric attitude to post as well. Give it a rest.
BBS jousting of wits is supposed to be fun, not a one sided bashing. Please try harder. I’m losing interest.
-
First off Creamo, Piss off.
Secondly, thnks for the info. I was curious. And I concur about the recovery.
and lastly, piss off again, and PLEASE go to the con next year, I'll buy you the ticket, and your first beer. Sincerely!
-
Hey Creamo, you should buy some stock, then maybe you can get that BMW you have been dreaming of.
-
Creamo,
My wifes father retired from United last year after 47 yrs as a pilot. He went from the USAAF to UAL, from B25s to DC6s. Anyways, right after 9-11, he bought several hundred shares. We did the same, but not on the same scale. I can't picture UAL going under and I think you're right, it's a good long term bet...
<S>
Crapgame
(http://www1.jump.net/~cs3/sigs/unv_sig.jpg) (http://www.jump.net/~cs3)
-
So, who'll pay for my shares?
-
and lastly, piss off again, and PLEASE go to the con next year, I'll buy you the ticket
Just what i need, more free air travel, and old bald men stalking me with "Harry High School" tempers to threaten me over a message board. Weird.
Have some respect for yourself.
-
yea maintenance world wide is getting more and more workload.. out-sourcing heavy maintenance just isn't that big a saving right now when you got the airplanes sitting on ground anyways...
and mothballing just ain't no option at least for my company because due to the way the bastiges are financed you just can't afford to put 'em away somwhere. Oh and seeling ain't no ption either unless you give them away for free.
But yea i guess the business will recover within the next 2 years.
pitty them Exec operators who are working 24 hours a day now ;)
DW6
-
Creamo's talking sense - Boeing shares should be on the list too. There isn't another way to travel. There are very few companies that are capable of producing the required equipment. It's that simple.
-
Creamo, who said anything about stalking? There many better ways to avenge a smart-asses mouth than violence. Please, I'm serious, I will gladly pay your plane fare.
Anyway, insiders say that the once-blue chip UA stock is falling into a high risk catagory. You can do much better in gains currently in a well balanced Mutual fund that you would putting all your money in a single stock. Let me put it this way, UA is a higher risk than it was before 9-11, and the percentage of gain in 1 year is significantly lower than that of an equal risk in say, the Tech market, except the Tech market has a better potential to make you money faster in the short haul...long haul, yes, UA *might* be a good investment, but there again, its a riskier stock today than it was prior to 9-11.
Edit: Related story: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20011029/aponline181243_001.htm (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20011029/aponline181243_001.htm)
[ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]
-
Pssst..hey Rip if I start the tardtalk will you buy my airfare too?
-
You'll have to have 2288 other posts of useless, sarcastic, assinine text first and be hated by an entire community other than the small circle of what you think are "friends" first.
[ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]
-
Ok, I'm gonna clarify something here:
Creamo aint my friend. And I'm sure I'm not his friend either. In fact, that we are all in the same squad does not make us friends. I hate some guys from my squad than most from the outside. Spermsk is a good example.
So, you should back out on your comments.
Creamo is hated by all the comunity INCLUDING his own squad. And probably so am I.
Carry on with your boring topic.
-
I'll always love you; my son. Even after I tied yer tard bellybutton into a sack of used kitty litter and tossed yah off the bridge I was heartbroken.... I forgot to lift yer wallet first.
:D
Carry on.
-
Originally posted by Animal:
[QB]Ok, I'm gonna clarify something here:
In fact, that we are all in the same squad does not make us friends. I hate some guys from my squad than most from the outside. Spermsk is a good example.
QB]
Animal and I are real good friends actually. I'm sure if he ever got out of jail and moved here to Canuckland we'd be best friends.
Rip...I had to ask since I'm likely never gonna make it to the con on my own patheticcanuck dollar.
I'll make a serious effort to piss you off enough to buy my way to the con next year!
[ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: skernsk ]
-
i have to side with anusmul on this one too i don't like creamy either see i am a pilot and pilots and wrenches don't see eye to eye most of the time cause pilots think there is a problem with the airplane and the wrenches think the pilots are just stupid and vice versa. :D
PS creamer don't get your panties in a wad i started out as a wrench then i lost my mind or brain. :D
-
<cue music>
...when creamo said he didnt like his teddy, ya knew he was a no good kid - but when he threatened your life with a switchblade knife - what a guy!
(http://www.sprigly.com/eddie-columbia3.jpg)
(http://www.sprigly.com/10-31-00-eddie-ring-left-hand.jpg)
(http://www.sprigly.com/10-31-00-closing_credit_shot_eddie_meatloaf.jpg)
:D
-
C H I C A G O, Dec. 6 — As United Airlines' stock sank
below a dollar a share Friday, its chief executive told
employees in a recorded message that a Chapter 11
bankruptcy filing by the nation's No. 2 airline was "more
likely."
"We have been preparing for a Chapter 11 filing for
months," CEO Glenn Tilton's message said. "Chapter 11
becomes a more likely outcome because it allows us to
restructure and to continue to serve our customers while
we do it."
Shares in parent UAL Corp. fell 17 cents to 83 cents a
share in afternoon trading on the New York Stock
Exchange the second day of a selloff following the
rejection of its request for a $1.8 billion loan guarantee.
Sources familiar with the process, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said United
was preparing to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy Sunday. The carrier was completing
the terms of a $1.5 billion debtor-in-possession loan, the sources said. The loan
would enable the airline to keep flying in bankruptcy.
United spokesman Rich Nelson confirmed Friday that the UAL board plans to meet
on Saturday, but he otherwise declined comment on the airline's financial status or
plans.
Tilton has said the airline would continue to fly whatever choice was made. United
makes about 1,700 flights per day and has about 83,000 employees worldwide.
United's customers are uneasy, but many passengers seem willing to stick with the
carrier.
Karen Hagler, who was flying from Denver to San Francisco, said she hoped United
could stay afloat.
"I think we need the airlines we have. We need competition," she said.
Tony Singfield, traveling from Denver to Montana, said he flies United frequently but
was worried about the attitude its employees would have in the face of possible
layoffs.
"I've always had good service with United and I know that service will continue to be
good, but the concern is just the attitude of the employees and how will they respond
to the situation," he said.
United, the world's largest airline until American overtook it last year, traces its
problems to a drop in passengers because of the weak economy and the September
2001 terrorist attacks, an increase in competition from smaller discount airlines and
failed business strategies.
Many employees blame management.
"There is no business plan," said Mike Ommundson, a mechanic at Chicago's
O'Hare International Airport.
"They brought in people with no airline experience" to manage the company, he said.
"You have no respect for them."
Other workers echoed his complaint, blaming executives for bringing in mid-level
managers from retailers.
Like many other workers at United, Ommundson accepted wage cuts and work rule
changes for six years in exchange for stock that would almost certainly be rendered
worthless by a bankruptcy. The company is now 55 percent owned by its employees.
As recently as October 1997, UAL stock traded at $100 a share.
Other United workers said they worry about the possibility of layoffs and benefit cuts
as well.
"We have to have a decent life and take care of our families," said Daniel Kaulback, a
baggage handler at O'Hare.
Germany's Lufthansa, which along with United belongs to the 14-member Star
Alliance of airlines, said Thursday it was in talks about offering assistance to its
embattled partner.
Lufthansa would want to secure any possible investment with assets such as planes
or real estate, said Thomas Jachnow, spokesman for Europe's No. 2 airline.
After the federal Air Transportation Stabilization Board rejected the loan guarantee
Wednesday, United's mechanics canceled a vote Thursday on $700 million in
wage-and-benefits cuts that the airline said were needed to avert bankruptcy.
Associated Press Writer Colleen Slevin in Denver and AP Business Writer Brad Foss
in New York contributed to this report.
-
That's cruel.
And stupid.
Boeing employee to be happy about airlines going out of business...
Biting the hand that feeds you.
-
The airlines will recover.
It will occur AFTER all the major airlines have significantly reduced their obligations under their major union contracts. In short, they are going to deliberately stay deeply in the red until they hammer pay and benefits back down to the levels of the early and mid 90's.
The common folk will cheer and be glad those dang "unions" finally "got theirs".
Airfares will then rise incredibly fast from where they are today and CEO and top management will award themselves billions in salary and bonus money.
The common folk will pay thru the nose for even worse service (small cities and communities will have greatly reduced service; there'll be more waiting time in "hubs" to fill flights to the max. No empty seats in between the touristas.) from totally disgruntled airline employees.
Enjoy! :D
I wouldn't buy UAL right now.
-
It is amazing that a carrier the size of United would be trading at the level it did today.
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
You'll have to have 2288 other posts of useless, sarcastic, assinine text first and be hated by an entire community other than the small circle of what you think are "friends" first.
[ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]
The entire AH community hates Creamo (except for his squad who pretends to like him)? Glad you can be the voice for the entire commnunity Rip. Is there anything else we should all like or dislike...I didn't get my list from you, so I'm kind of confused about where to go from here.
SOB
-
Not happy Funked, it affects us too. 30,000 jobs since this original post is nothing to laugh at. And, I might add, always look to see who casts a stone first.
-
I like Creamo. It's just that he tries really really hard not be liked. And if you show signs of liking him, he will go out of his way to offend you. I have decided that liking him is the best way to get back at him.
EDIT: Man that sounds gay.
-
Yeah, I like Creamo, even when he busts my chops. I've never seen a time when there wasn't truth in it.
But heck, I like talking to SOB, Mr. Fish, Thrawn, and a host of others that are big meanies and doo-doo heads. Maybe I don't like them so much as loathe myself...
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Not happy Funked, it affects us too. 30,000 jobs since this original post is nothing to laugh at. And, I might add, always look to see who casts a stone first.
I don't care about stones. You guys are in the same boat and should play nice.
I wish I could help. I just don't like to fly much after being involved in a wind shear incident. Terrorism is the least of my worries. :)
-
I don't play nice with stalkers, Funked.
-
LOL
You gotta be kidding.
What did he do?
I wanna hear this one.
-
It is amazing that a carrier the size of United would be trading at the level it did today.
United is an employee-owned business. On most occasions employee ownership caused inefficiency, way higher salaries that industry norm, redundant personnel, poor work ethics, resistance to technological change, etc.
The UAL pilots get paid double of some of their competitors and tens of thousands (80,000?) more than the second highest-paying airline. Of course the pilots own 1/2 of all the employee-owned stock. The employees own the majority of the stock in that company.
It's too bad that United will probably go through bancrupcy, be relieved from paying on it's debts (really owed by the owners, more than half of which are the employees) and thus will be able to undercut the more sensible competitors who's employees get lower salaries and drive those out of business.
There are airline companies in the US that not only are not in bancrupcy but actually making profits and growing.
United should not be allowed to use Chapter 11 protection but rather liquidated so that it's assets are acquired by other better-run companies as well as any employees worth hiring.
P.S. It's so nice when the hated capitalist fat cats and unions are one and the same and are going down!
miko
-
Originally posted by miko2d
The UAL pilots get paid double of some of their competitors and tens of thousands (80,000?) more than the second highest-paying airline. miko
Really? So you think a UAL B777 captain makes $80K a year more than a DAL or AA B777 pilot in salary and benefits.
I'll have to ask for some documentation on this. Because you are totally incorrect. Their rate on the 777 is pennies an hour more than DAL, for example.
I suspect AA is very, very close as well. And it goes the same way right on down the equipment list.
So what's your source for this?
-
Originally posted by Creamo
We increased our heavy check where I work, that’s all. It’s station specific for cost logistics, which fortunately I’m benefiting from do to our location. Doesn’t matter. The airlines will fully recover within 12-18 months.
This “America will cease to function after Sept 11th, we will all stay at home in fear, all airlines will all go bankrupt, planes to mothballs, businessmen will never fly again, we’ll not visit family ever again it’s not safe, etc…” roadkill is tiring and completely false. A unnecessary and damaging rhetoric attitude to post as well. Give it a rest.
You still don't get it...it isn't 9/11 that is the problem for the airline industry....it is the Unions and a bunch of overpaid, underworked employees. Read your signature for cripes sake.
-
hmm..lets see, war on Iraq coming up. Terrorist attacks have increased lately. More terrorist scares in the media.
Yes, I dont see why people shouldnt fly more.
I know one person that they'd have to tie up and carry aboard one of those things, Im not flying again, period.
-
stalker?
-
Still waiting for my list...
SOB
-
I get first dibs on the ticket if creamo backs out rip. I would really love to go to the con next year. Heck, I'll buy YOU the beer.
-
Originally posted by Toad
I wouldn't buy UAL right now.
Especialy since the likelyhood of other attacks on airlines is so high. One or two more hits on ANY US airline and UAL will be in an unrecoverable position. Unfortunatley, it will be mostly blue collar workers that suffer the most as the execs will take what's left of the money and run.
-
Originally posted by Curval
...it is the Unions and a bunch of overpaid, underworked employees. .
.....And IT employees working in the Pacific NW with over 15,000 posts.......
It's not "just" a Union thing apparently. Wake up on that Curval.
I'm not sure why Rip punted this old post today....no wait, I am sure...to rub someone's nose in it. Funked was right.....this is just stupid...not cruel...being cruel would imply thought, which would imply intelligence....clearly not the case here....stupidity sums it up nicely.
BTW, Rip...YOU don't speak for me.
I like Creamo, just not in that gay-way that Funked does.
Cobra
-
Cobra you homophobe!
-
Originally posted by Cobra
.....And IT employees working in the Pacific NW with over 15,000 posts.......
It's not "just" a Union thing apparently. Wake up on that Curval.
Let's compare apples with apples there Cobra. Despite what you may think of Rip and his 15,000 posts he is involved in the manufacture of aircraft..NOT in the efficient running of an operating airline.
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
You'll have to have 2288 other posts of useless, sarcastic, assinine text first and be hated by an entire community other than the small circle of what you think are "friends" first.
[ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]
Oh...so where do I get my ticket.
-
Toad,
Sorry - I've spent 1/2 hour but could not find an article I've read either today or yeaterday. I will keep looking.
It stated a figure of over 300,000 compared to 150,000 something - I hope the author used similar categories. Certainly looked too large.
I will look for it but hope that the numbers do not distract from the main message - large companies that avoid/undergo bancrupcy to emerge as "employee-owned" firms usually fail miserably.
They had half of the board of directors, extra motive for personal involvement, etc. - and it failed.
miko
-
Came in at the end of this thread. No axe to grind either way. But Ripsnort is right: Creamo, why don't you piss off. :D
-
Not my favourite person... but he beats the bellybutton topics we're seeing here lately. (except for Funked's food talk!)
that is all.
-
While I didn't like Rip's bumping of this thread and don't agree with his assessment of Creamo's popularity (I don't even think a small circle of friends like him)...
I find it funny that so many feel the need to defend creamo. If there's anyone that doesn't need help defending himself... its creamo. I actually feel a little sorry for rip.
AKDejaVu
-
Originally posted by Curval
..NOT in the efficient running of an operating airline.
As far as I've been able to tell over the years, Curval, there has been exactly ONE airline CEO involved in the efficient running of an operating airline. That would be Herb Kelleher.
All of the rest have been poseurs; either they're simply incompetent and devoid of the common sense cod gave a turnip (ex: Ron Allen) or they're simply thieves in it for the maximum amount they can steal (ex: Frank Lorenzo).
-
Herb Kelleher for president.
I'm not kidding.
-
Ok Bud Fox......
why do i have to wreck this airline.... Because it's wreckable !!!!!
-
Originally posted by miko2d
I will look for it but hope that the numbers do not distract from the main message - large companies that avoid/undergo bancrupcy to emerge as "employee-owned" firms usually fail miserably.
They had half of the board of directors, extra motive for personal involvement, etc. - and it failed.
miko
I'm willing to wait. :)
I feel I'm extremely familiar with DAL's rates throughout its fleet and have more than a passing knowledge of what UAL and AA are paying on the same aircraft. I also have a pretty good understanding in the differences in work rules.
Just one example: A DAL and SW 737 Captain make approximately the same annual salary, yet the SW Captain has a significantly lower hourly rate. How can this be? Why the SW Captain flys more hours per year than the DAL Captain, of course.
Here's the kicker: the SW Captain gets MORE hours in equal or fewer DAYS per year. How can this be? Efficiency in scheduling, of course.
Could DAL match SW's scheduling efficiency? One would think so... and Managment once asked the pilots to fly more hours per month. The pilots said "certainly" we will fly as many as you like if you fly us no more DAYS than a SW pilot flies per month. DAL management withdrew its request. Go figure.
I think there are reasons within reasons there, Miko. If I recall correctly, the UAL Flight Attendants did NOT participate in the buyout. There was one large employee group.. perhaps the largest.... that was not "onboard" with either the new management team OR its fellow employee groups.
Further, the mechanics are the ones that have currently forced this issue, are they not? They voted down pay cuts/concessions. So, again, you have a split employee group problem.
Perhaps the problem is not employee ownership per se, but rather the fractionated nature of the employee group.
Just something to think about.
-
Sure Creamo sprouts off, but there is always truth somewhere in the things he sprouts off about. I enjoy his post!! Always brings a smile to my face!
You are correct DejaVu, Creamo needs no help defending himself! :)
Keep this thread going.
NOTE:
Replace "sprouts off" with "enjoys the verbal joust"
-
I find it funny that so many feel the need to defend creamo. If there's anyone that doesn't need help defending himself... its creamo. I actually feel a little sorry for rip.
I do it because I want to, not need to. That, and I don't like being spoken for in such an attack. I also don't like the nature of the bump here, which would appear to be an "I told you so" type post over jobs. There may be people I don't like, but I don't wish unemployment (or sickness) on any of them. So yeah, put me on Creamo's side for this one.
-
Originally posted by Curval
Let's compare apples with apples there Cobra. Despite what you may think of Rip and his 15,000 posts he is involved in the manufacture of aircraft..NOT in the efficient running of an operating airline.
Oh, silly me, I just thought that if your employed in any business, you should be concerned with and involved in the efficient running of THAT business.
And from what I can tell, the only efficient thing 15,000 posts represents is efficient posting on a BBS's on somebody's time, not necessarily all of it personal time.
Or this.....http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70193
I'll leave the hair-splitting to you.
To be honest Curval, I don't think bad of Rip or Creamo. I just think it was a cheap shot, and Rip lives in as big a glass house as do we all.
But I certainly don't like them in that way that Funked does :eek:
Cobra
-
I think it might have been a bad idea to by UAL stock last year after all..
-
I am not a big airline traveler... bout 3-4 times a year... I am cutting that to "only in an emergency" I loathe airtravel these days... I can not see how anyone in their right mind put's up with the crap... I rememmber when you went to the airport and people were all smiling and exciteded... Now... they are all aprehensive and hangdog... look like a bunch of felons pulling up to a roadbloc... obvious arabs passing through while the mother of 4 lillte ones is hands over head metal detected .... like some old commie block deal. Wait for hours and sit in a seat designed for some alien... The worst car built is 100 times more comfortable than the best first class seat on a plane. No one to greet you till you get out of the criminal zone. walk 6 blocks to the car (probly the best part).
nope... you pretty much lost me. Maybe I am in the minority but... it ain't the fear that the nerd next to me will have a bomb in his DVD player.... When was the last time you saw people smiling at an airport? Oh well.... it puts going to the dentist in perspective.
lazs
-
I can't figure out for the life of me why Mechanics(AME's) are still paid less than pilots...Union busting tactics plain and simple..Thank GWB for denying the loan because the mechanics refused consessions.
-
Time to rant, it’s the weekend. Laz2, that’s it, I gotta respond. I’ll git to you…
Nothing like reading a high school annual or something. Man this is old toejam. This thread makes as much sense as me having my brother put $100 on the last Rams game of last year at the Atlantis Casino.
The Falcons were 30-1 to win outright, and it was big money if they pulled it off, considering he would have blown that in 20 minutes risk at Blackjack. We thought the Rams would bench the starters and lay down. Nope, and when we put $10 on Philly to cover against the Rams in the playoffs, we howled and had a blast, much to the distaste of the guys next to us that had really big money the other way. I think we made 2 beers on total in cash on that one. Casino bars are great that way. Every play is fun, as it means a lot, no matter who you really care about. (The Packer game had no bets, that would have been 10X’s as horrid. Shut the fek up Funky)
On the topic, a huge carrier like United going that low seemed impossible then, and made for a “feel good” airline post at the time on a goofy game BBS. Nothing more.
Am I surprised United is failing so badly? Well, as much as I was surprised the airlines were forced to put in electronic steel doors (yup, pretty good and integrated into the avionics system, the new ones you don’t know about) after the initial band aide, the relatively cheap security bars. To the tune of 400 million.)
Don’t get me wrong, it’s a good thing, but to fathom the increased insurance costs, and the mandatory security mods, I just didn’t know the lengths carriers would take to keep everyone extra safe. It’s well warranted, but crippling in cost. All carriers are sporting the beating. Why some are making it vs. others going bankrupt is a huge topic no flightsim gaming community can argue intelligently, nor would want to, over a select few impacted or interested, and is pointless.
Anyway, DRippy’s seething distaste of my AH BBS banter towards him to email me again yesterday and punt this like it’s a … I dunno, a small victory shot? That was almost more of a surprise. Sad, probably yes, if not a actual merit to his memory skills. I don’t get it. Weird.
Laz2- I have flown every month this year, sometimes 2 times a month, and have never NOT been checked where I had to remove my shoes, and had a bag inspection. Well, twice or so where I actually walked through, but considering, that’s not too bad.
Did I feel it was at DUI taskforce near a highway that has lotsa DUI deaths? Yup. Did it take more than 5 minutes? Nope. Were people all “all apprehensive and hangdog”? Not at all. I remember when gate agents were ATTACKED over seat assignments. Everyone is way cool and professional now. Quite the contrary to your spin on things. A businessman in Dubuque got a bit pissed because they really searched him making him hold his belt buckle out of the way of his belly, but he noted that he flew every day and was tired. My worst experience was a huge black lady going through my wallet in Dallas which I thought was a stretch, but the more I smiled, the more she just got pissed trying for a reaction. Was I happy that noone could bring on anything dangerous? Yup, everyone always seems that way, and why wouldn’t you?
Oh, and not to pull the BMW card, but I fly 1st class 90% of the time because it’s usually available, and a employee perk. To say “ The worst car built is 100 times more comfortable than the best first class seat on a plane is pure Dixon redneck hogwash boy!
There ain’t no GTO, Hemi Cuda, or other 70’s car that reclines as sweet as AA 1st class new interiors and serves pancakes and all the champagne you can drink at 500 kts. Not to mention you can take a piss at 500kts without streaking your rear quarter panel. And if your worried about 124 terror aware American travelers kicking your bellybutton if you mistake the cockpit door for the bathroom door, good fuking luck opening it.
Travel has never been safer, and the people have never been more cooperative. Think about it. Or drive 3 days to Chicago.
-
Call the FBI..the real creamo has been abducted.
-
creamo... I think it's a pain in the butt to travel by air. I guess you don't. We will have to leave it at that cause we are light years apart on what we will put up with it seems. I recall tho when it was fun and excieting to travel by air and... 1st class asside... the seating is terrible. The bathroom is dinky and smells like the last 30 people that were in it. The meals are terrible and I don't drink. Whenn I am forced to travel by air I have to steele myself to the ordeal.... I can't take most of the things I would like to have with me... Most of the people I know are traveling less by air... Maybe it is just the people I know but most think it is a gigantic pain in the butt.
I like driving... I like seeing the country and I like the rest stops and even the gas stations... I like getting up and stretching and I even like staying at motels along the way. RV sales are through the roof... but I guess if airline travel is up then I am the one who is in the minority... if it is down... then....
safer? who cares? That is not what is on my mind... heck.. if they want to wreck my flight well... they will... what passes for security ain't gonna help... I don't think I am that unlucky tho... I don't really think about it in any case. If I can't defend myself then I really don't feel secure no matter what.
I guess i would take a train if they had some good lines and schedules. I hate asking people to take me to the airport or pick me up at one.... I hate leaving my car at an airport and I dislike the hassle of rental cars..
There has got to be a better way... till there is... I can certainly do without airtravel except in emergencies.. And... the less people travel by air... the more they notice what a pain it is when they do have to do it... I don't think someone on a comped first class account who flys at least once a month and knows all the ins and out's is very representitive. I still say you don't see customers smiling at airports... they are at best... putting up with it.
lazs
-
Laz, like people that stand on escalators without baggage… Airtravel is not a Pirate Ride at Disney World, walk up the whoopee thing already. Air travel isn’t a “Exciting adventure”. Its to get you to Chicago in 3 hours 49 minutes, rather than 3 fukin days in a GTO with 5 fuel stops, bad truck stop meatloaf, and flat tires n’ speeding tickets.
The coffee and bistro bag on a airline is a gift for Christ’s sake. I do ride coach and when people complain about the meal I just wonder if they are full of Franco-American SpaghettiOs and were looking to start their vacation at the jetbridge. Hello? It starts in Cancun or wherever, the people that get you there safely may not be on your mind, but I’m almost sure we cater to 99% of other travelers.
I hate to travel. Who would not just have to “put up with it?
-
I'm with Lazs on this one, at least partially. I'll drive for all trips where the total driving trip time is less than about twice the total flying trip time. Which for me is about a 600 mile radius.
I'd much rather spend 2x hours driving than x hours dicking around in an airport or crouching in a tiny seat breathing recycled CO2.
Beyond that I'll drive if I have nothing else to do, but will consider flying.
-
Hey Crapgame,
My wifes father retired from United last year after 47 yrs as a pilot
Mathematically that is impossible, unless he started with them as a 13 year old pilot. Mandatory retirement by FAA reg is 60 yrs old.
Probably just a typo.
dago
-
Creamo,
All differences aside,
Good luck man, I hope UA survives.
-
Hey, it's Sunday, last night's dinner was excellent, I'm in a good mood and I agree with Lazs. :D:D
One thing I should point out here is that your internal flights don't offer anything like the quality of service that is served up on international flights by the same airline. On my epic trips around the US, I very often fly United Airlines because I might be stopping at four cities, and I need to choose an airline that serves all the places I intend to visit. I pay for the transatlantic sectors, and the airline practically gives away the internal sectors - literally in some cases. The transatlantic sectors tend to be much more relaxed, with seasoned travellers. The internal sectors seem to be flown by people who are pissed off that they couldn't get the seat they wanted, or got bounced from an earlier flight that was cancelled. The mood is much more stressed, with Americans not being accustomed to all the security checks - something we have had to deal with in Europe for many years. Of course, it's not always like that...
One thing I used to enjoy was ordering an alcoholic beverage on the flight (assuming I wasn't driving at the other end) and a headset. The Americans would have to pay $4 for each of those, but when it was my turn I would ask for my drink and headset very politely. I could tell that the flight attendants were unaccustomed to hearing the words Please and Thank you. They would ask me if I had flown in from Europe on the same airline, and because I had, I would get drinks and headsets free of charge. :D I remember all the Yanks sitting around me, staring at me with quivering bottom lips - LOL!!! :D:D:D
-
Oh, you paid for the headset and the "free" internal flight.
A tribute to the UAL marketing department that you didn't notice. ;)
-
LOL Beet1e,
You must be the atypical Euro passenger then.
I do alot of international travel, Europe, India, and Asia-Pacific......rudeness is a human condition, and the Euros are NOT immune to it (I've got plenty of Brit and French passenger stories to go around, one in Pakistan was a particularly ugly scene).
Plus, Please and Thank You is spoken frequently here.
I do agree on one thing....the Domestic (US) airlines' International travel is much better than the domestic travel. But I've flown British Midland (and others) internally in Europe, and it's the same as domestically here.
For my money, best International travel is Singapore Airlines.
Cobra
-
Mr. Toad! I should have given an example. A few years ago I flew into LAX, spent a couple of weeks in CA, flew on from SFO to DEN, then after a few days continued to EWR to see the girlie, then flew home to LHR. I can't remember what the fare was that I paid, but the SFO-DEN sector was added at a cost of $55, and for the DEN-EWR sector there was no additional charge! I didn't pay for headset or drink.
Cobra saidFor my money, best International travel is Singapore Airlines.
Agreed! But for British Midland, you should do as I do and fly Diamond Club Class. Your waiting area is in the Diamond Club Class lounge, where you can get free coffee and newspapers. The cloakrooms are plush with the sinks set in a wooden vanity with gold taps (faucets! :rolleyes: ). You get seated in the front three rows (B737) and a curtain is drawn across, shielding you from the proletarian rabble flying economy. You get served a nice breakfast and champagne is offered - although I decline that (too early).
Check out http://www.easyjet.co.uk and http://www.ryanair.com -pretty good airlines. I was on an easyJet flight down to Nice some years ago, and the airline owner Stelios was aboard en route to his weekend retreat. We met, shook hands and chatted for a while. I can never spell Stelios's last name - he is Greek, and it probably has 25 letters!
-
yep funked but... I will drive if the time is less than about a factor of five... I also factor in the time getting to and from the airport and the "get there an hour early" crap.
creamo... most of us don't travel on airlines much... the ones you see dazed and confused are probly that way cause last time they flew (6 months ago) everything was totaly different.. and.. it will be totally different 6 months from now when they fly again unless... they either say screw it and don't take that nesxt trip or... just drive instead.
u can pretend that travel by air is a good thing all you want but like you say.... travel is no fun... I say... it is guarenteed to be no fun if you fly... the best you can do is have it less painful than the last time... relief is the best it gets... with other forms of travel.... you never know... It might be lousy and it might be great... a lot of fun.
lazs
-
I hadn't realised the situation facing UAL was as dire as it is. There was a big article in today's Guardian, Mr. Toad's favourite UK broadsheet newspaper. (I couldn't get the Telegraph) It said that $7m a day is being lost and a $1.8bn loan had been refused. (?)
-
Glug, glug....
UAL is going under.
-
Was it Eastern Airlines that hired a former astronaut to run the show?
Frank Borman?
Anyone flown Eastern lately?
And who is this Creamo fella anyway?
-
I still haven't found the original article. I saw the one that referred to the "top captain" rate of being around $300,000 - so I assume the original value of $350,000 did not mean average pilot's salary for UAL.
I also found that UAL employs way more mechanics per aircraft than some competing airlines. They lover the headcount mostly due to outsourcing and using foreign facilities.
The good thing about outsorsing and especialy foreign facilities is that when you have overcapacity and cut flights, you have no problem cutting expenses without much fuss.
Much easier than laying off some unionised salaried mechanics, especially if they are also owners.
Further, the mechanics are the ones that have currently forced this issue, are they not? They voted down pay cuts/concessions. So, again, you have a split employee group problem.
Over half of them would have to be fired - closer to 2/3 if UAL switched to outsourcing of the remaining plane service. What did they have to lose voting concessions down? They would have been out of a job anyway.
miko
-
Originally posted by miko2d
[B Over half of them would have to be fired - closer to 2/3 if UAL switched to outsourcing of the remaining plane service. What did they have to lose voting concessions down? They would have been out of a job anyway.[/B]
Oh well, there is always work as a card dealer at the Vegas casinos.
-
Originally posted by Eagler
It is amazing that a carrier the size of United would be trading at the level it did today.
No more amazing than Worldcom trading at $.02 a share :)