Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: BlueJ1 on July 07, 2006, 06:03:37 PM
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Seeing how long this is after I typed it i dont blame yall if you dont read it. I wouldnt. Just felt good to vent.
For most of you this is just a rant. Maybe a few of you have had experience with this before and can relate. But I need to vent. Anyways, my goverment teacher is the most opinionated teacher and overall ahole Ive ever met in my life before. Its not his beliefs I have a problem with at all. Its the way as a school teacher he puts them across. My two examples below are poor examples of how he does this. You'd have to be in the class to get the full effect.
Yesterday (Day 2 of the class), In short he told me that joining the Navy was the easy way out. I asked him when he had served his country. He had no answer. Instead he told the class that joining the military is a waste of time and taxpayers money. I chose to not argue with him because I need this class to graduate.
Today (Day 3), we got on the topic of Collin Powell's war strategy. (Overwelming force and as fast as possible) He started complaining about the number of needless civilian casualties in war. He related it to Hiroshima and Nagisaki thinking no one in his class had any idea about either besides what they read in their history class. He asked my opinion on civilian casualties in war considering I will be in the military soon. I told him that any civilians that are killed in a war is a bad thing. But, if civilians are killed when our soldiers are attacking/bombing a target to shorten the war and save more lives then its acceptable. I then related that back to the end of WWII in Japan. I told him that more civilians had died in the firebombings then they did in either attack on Hiroshima and Nagisaki. These two attacks on Japanese cities was the final blow Japan's leaders needed to surrender and end the war. Both attacks shortened the war and most likely saved thousands if not millions of more lives. He then responded with "That view on civilian deaths in war makes me angry until Im blue in the face." He then stated, "That view will come around and bite you in the butt when your in the military." I had a few choice words for him but refrianed not wanting to fail the class in the second day. He then went on a rant to the class about how better morals should be taught in schools through religion, me being the example. After class walking in the hall I had 4 kids, all about a year younger then me, shake my hand and thank me for serving our country. Ive had adults do this before but never a teenager. They have had this teacher before and said that no matter your opinion in his class you are always wrong. he gets off on proving kids wrong.
There are a few more things that hes said and done that I was angered over. But, this one pissed me off the most. I normally always respect others point of views and political views. But, when your in a teaching position and almost force feed your views on your students I then get angry.
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Your post seems fishy to me, BlueJ1.
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No troll. Im good at being the fish. Not at throwing good bait.
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Originally posted by BlueJ1
They have had this teacher before and said that no matter your opinion in his class you are always wrong. he gets off on proving kids wrong.
Easy to do, but ultimately unfulfilling.
Opinions are like *******s. Everyone has one and most of them stink.
Had an instructor at college. Very opinionated and very left. Best thing to do with him was to go at him head on. He loved it. You couldn't count on having the last word. Afterall, it's his class. But the people that had informed opposing views and had the skill and the balls to stand up and debate with him usually did well on grades.
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The only thing your teacher might have been right about is that the Navy is the easy way out. All those Navy guys do is ride around on air conditioned ships, eating gourmet meals 3 times a day, visiting exotic ports and smooching with foreign ladies.
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
The only thing your teacher might have been right about is that the Navy is the easy way out. All those Navy guys do is ride around on air conditioned ships, eating gourmet meals 3 times a day, visiting exotic ports and smooching with foreign ladies.
No, he was wrong... and so are you. ;)
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Teachers are all godless communistic heathen preverts. I know because Lazs told me.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Teachers are all godless communistic heathen preverts. I know because Lazs told me.
What about aspiring teachers?
(Hides from Lazs :noid )
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I know the feeling Bluej. If he wants to be right in his own mind, that's fine. You know what you want to do, that's the Navy, so go for it. Teachers like that should be told to f*** off, then just do what you can in class. Do your work, get good grades on tests, and pass. What he says can only have as much meaning to you as you think it has.
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The fact that teachers are godless comunistic heathen perverts is not such a bad thing (we all have our faults)...
The bad thing is that we allow them to be around our children.
lazs
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Hmmmmm....
Had a college instructor doin even worse stuff. Was continually preaching about how wonderfull the People Republic of China was. Went at it with him over many things. Including how nice the communist were to everyone, his opinion not mine. Called him on that immediately. Told him of some things his beloved communist had done, like the mass graves of teachers and such, I saw not far from Hue. He didn't like that one at all. He finally took me outside the classroom and ..........
He felt I wouldn't get anything out of his class. (Oh? Really?) Offered to give me a solid C if I would STOP coming to his class. Was burnt out an ......... took his offer. Maybe I shouldn't have????
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If a teacher can instill the value of education in kids, and make the kids actually want to learn, then they have succeeded.
I had a college professor instill that in me a few months after I had graduated high school. Taught me that education allows us to make better decisions, that it can lead to happiness, and a more fulfilling life. He was right.
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As long as he's not instilling his wiener into the students, good times.
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Teachers have a curriculum they are supposed to follow. The classroom is not the time or the place for their opinion. Just about my whole extended family are teachers and they would agree with me on this.
Our schools do poorly enough as it is, they should not be taking time out of the approved curriculum to try to brainwash the students. If they don't like what is approved to be taught, they can get on the curriculum council and work to rewrite the curriculum.
Like I said before classrooms are not public forums for political speech (unless that is what the course is designed for).
Besides, they better start to realize that they are GOVERNMENT employees, teaching in a govenment operated school. of course private colleges are a different beast altogether. If we were a less "free" society, teaching their opinions would most likely get them shot.
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Using one's position as a teacher to brow-beat students or attempt to brain wash them into accepting one's own beliefs is nothing more, and nothing less, than abuse of power.
The free exchange of ideas and opinion in the classroom should be a two- way street and the director of that debate should never use bullying, intellectual intimidation, or ridicule to stifle opposite opinions.
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The very nature of having one government run school system is by it's very nature...
An abuse of power.
lazs
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Two things struck me about your comments Blue. One is that, according to you he was advocating religion in state schools.
He then went on a rant to the class about how better morals should be taught in schools through religion
Surely a no no for a teacher?
Two, it's not clear if he in fact your history teacher? If not, why was he going on about history and arguing with you, wasting everyone's time.
The only other thing I would say is that if you had the same opinions as him you would probably think he's a cool teacher. It's just a question of perception. I am quite sure there are other teachers out there who act as quasi recruiting sergeants for the military.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Teachers are all godless communistic heathen preverts. I know because Lazs told me.
You're going to have to point to someone other than yourself as proof contrary.
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My ex-wife is a teacher. My oldest daughter from my second marriage is a teacher, and she's as right wing as anyone I know. An interesting contrast to the bulk of the teachers she works with in our local high school.
As for your teacher, simply state the facts. Tell him how impressed you are with his liberal arts degree... :rolleyes: Remind him that those who can, do. Those that can't do, teach. Those that can't teach, teach gym and those who cannot teach gym are promoted to administrators.
Remind him also that the hiarchy of a typical school district is similar to a cesspool, inasmuch as the big turds seem to rise to the top. Tell him you expect that he will live up to his destiny and achieve a leadership position within the rarified world of public educators.
Oh, and the next time some pompous teacher suggests that joining the Navy is the easy way out, remind him that the easy way out is to avoid serving. Tell him that responsibility to something beyond his own interests builds character, as does discipline. Remind him that self-righteous windbags living on the public tit is, without doubt, a waste of taxpayer money.
My regards,
Widewing
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^
But tell him all that after you pass his course.
;)
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and therein lies the rub..... if you don't pretend to be awed by their left wing ideas you won't make it through the system.
lazs
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When at war with a country there are no innocent civilians (or there are very few) As they undoubtedly support their country in time of war in one form or another.
There is only the enemy.
The best way to win a war is to make war so devastating, So terrible, So horrific on that county and its people. That they no longer are able, or willing to pursue that course of action. Even on the smallest level.
This is the word of Drediock
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Originally posted by lazs2
The very nature of having one government run school system is by it's very nature...
An abuse of power.
lazs
Actually you could more accurately state that it is 50 governments run the schools. There is no "national curriculum" as the states rather jealously guard their own authority to set and administer their school systems. They also license and administer the teaching credentials as well as set the standards to maintain the credentials through continuing education requirements to maintain the position. If you move from one state to another you'll have to provide your teaching education transcripts to the new state and then likely have to pass a state test to be certified to teach there.
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Originally posted by Maverick
Actually you could more accurately state that it is 50 governments run the schools. There is no "national curriculum" as the states rather jealously guard their own authority to set and administer their school systems. They also license and administer the teaching credentials as well as set the standards to maintain the credentials through continuing education requirements to maintain the position. If you move from one state to another you'll have to provide your teaching education transcripts to the new state and then likely have to pass a state test to be certified to teach there.
Yes but if you don't do what the fed gov says ... No fed funds for you.
That's just as good as fed gov running the schools.
Bronk
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Not at all. Most of the school funding for public schools (HS and below) is not from the feds. It is based on the state and county budgets. Most of the money is from country education taxes and allocated on the based on the number of students in class each day. That is the real reason the schools are interested in keeping kids in class. They get paid for each desk occupied. If it were not for that aspect they would be happy to let those kids who don't want to be there go where they want. The world needs basic laborers and there is no reason to import them from Mexico instead of letting the drop outs get it done.
Now there are federal mandates for the school to adhere to things like equal education (affirmative action and so on) however the feds do not control the purse strings. They do make education incentive grants that schools can apply for but they are certainly not mandatory.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
When at war with a country there are no innocent civilians (or there are very few) As they undoubtedly support their country in time of war in one form or another.
There is only the enemy.
The best way to win a war is to make war so devastating, So terrible, So horrific on that county and its people. That they no longer are able, or willing to pursue that course of action. Even on the smallest level.
This is the word of Drediock
Are you sure, Drediock? That sounds exactly like something Osama Bin Laden might say.
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Originally posted by cpxxx
Two things struck me about your comments Blue. One is that, according to you he was advocating religion in state schools. Surely a no no for a teacher?
Two, it's not clear if he in fact your history teacher? If not, why was he going on about history and arguing with you, wasting everyone's time.
The only other thing I would say is that if you had the same opinions as him you would probably think he's a cool teacher. It's just a question of perception. I am quite sure there are other teachers out there who act as quasi recruiting sergeants for the military.
Its a goverment class. Its 2 hours long. We were dicussing conservatism. I dont remember how we got on that subject.
As for having the same ideas as him and thinking he is a cool teacher I may think alittle less harshly of him. Bit in the long run I think its wrong for a teacher to sit in a position of power and us his class as a arena in which the students have to follow.
I did my community service requirement for the class today. So numerically I already passed. Now I just have to show up. Im just gona bring a book from now on and read.
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Originally posted by cpxxx
Are you sure, Drediock? That sounds exactly like something Osama Bin Laden might say.
I doubt very much he has those sorts of resources available to him to conduct that sort of warfare.
That sort of warfare would however defeat the likes of OSB.
But we worry too much. WAY too much about these so called "innocents"
They hide him, they support him. They supply him.
They are hardly "innocent"
and so what if he would say it.
Just because its something he might say doesnt make it any less true.
And if he did. Then that is the best way to defeat him.
the Nazies first used the Blitzkreig.
Just because they used it doesnt make that strategy any less valid
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Originally posted by BlueJ1
Its a goverment class. Its 2 hours long. We were dicussing conservatism. I dont remember how we got on that subject.
Im just gona bring a book from now on and read.
Book Suggestions start here ......
(http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/d/Q/bush_strangelove.jpg)
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mav... the feds are guilty by omission. If it is the duty of the feds to protect us from discrimantion and unfair taxation then they should mandate that vouchers be issued by the states and maybe... standards of performance met.
As it is... the states are extorting taxes and not allowing choice.
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Originally posted by BlueJ1
Seeing how long this is after I typed it i dont blame yall if you dont read it. I wouldnt. Just felt good to vent.
For most of you this is just a rant. Maybe a few of you have had experience with this before and can relate. But I need to vent. Anyways, my goverment teacher is the most opinionated teacher and overall ahole Ive ever met in my life before. Its not his beliefs I have a problem with at all. Its the way as a school teacher he puts them across. My two examples below are poor examples of how he does this. You'd have to be in the class to get the full effect.
Yesterday (Day 2 of the class), In short he told me that joining the Navy was the easy way out. I asked him when he had served his country. He had no answer. Instead he told the class that joining the military is a waste of time and taxpayers money. I chose to not argue with him because I need this class to graduate.
Today (Day 3), we got on the topic of Collin Powell's war strategy. (Overwelming force and as fast as possible) He started complaining about the number of needless civilian casualties in war. He related it to Hiroshima and Nagisaki thinking no one in his class had any idea about either besides what they read in their history class. He asked my opinion on civilian casualties in war considering I will be in the military soon. I told him that any civilians that are killed in a war is a bad thing. But, if civilians are killed when our soldiers are attacking/bombing a target to shorten the war and save more lives then its acceptable. I then related that back to the end of WWII in Japan. I told him that more civilians had died in the firebombings then they did in either attack on Hiroshima and Nagisaki. These two attacks on Japanese cities was the final blow Japan's leaders needed to surrender and end the war. Both attacks shortened the war and most likely saved thousands if not millions of more lives. He then responded with "That view on civilian deaths in war makes me angry until Im blue in the face." He then stated, "That view will come around and bite you in the butt when your in the military." I had a few choice words for him but refrianed not wanting to fail the class in the second day. He then went on a rant to the class about how better morals should be taught in schools through religion, me being the example. After class walking in the hall I had 4 kids, all about a year younger then me, shake my hand and thank me for serving our country. Ive had adults do this before but never a teenager. They have had this teacher before and said that no matter your opinion in his class you are always wrong. he gets off on proving kids wrong.
There are a few more things that hes said and done that I was angered over. But, this one pissed me off the most. I normally always respect others point of views and political views. But, when your in a teaching position and almost force feed your views on your students I then get angry.
Tell yer teacher how the Incindary Raids of February - March 1945 killed more people than both bombs. Ask him that if had the bombs NOT been dropped, would 10-20 million dead been acceptable? 300,000 - 350,000 vs 10,000,000 - 20,000,000. Another thing to remind him, many of us wouldn't have known our dads or grandfathers. My grandpa (USMC 43-46) was scheduled to go into Yokohama Bay in Nov. 1945 had they not surrendered.
I have always let teachers like this in how they piss me off.
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You could always take the book on the art of war I dont remmember the name but its a good one. Or get a good book on Adolf Galland make shure when you read them that they are open real wide so he can see the cover of the book. And just to be wondering what school is this teacher at? so I make shure my dauter never goes to that school. Im hoping that she makes into West Point. Or even the Naval Acadamy. Anyways Drive on there BlueJ1 and keep your head up. From one Vet to another Thanks for serving sir
.:aok
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we've all had more than our fill of those types of teachers in school.
using their possition to spout handsomehunked ideas that nobody would listen to otherwise. or simply feeding their otherwise starving egos by ridiculing anyone who doesn't agree with them, or otherwise putting the need for them to apear or feel smart above the facts or an honest discussion.
you should be greatful for these teachers.
they are a wealth of practical experience in dealing with most of the supervisors you will encounter in your working life.
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Today I just sat in class and read my book. Its a book on Dresden. He tried a few times to pull me into a argument by using slander aganst the military. The class all recieved a newspaper and he made us read an article on the soldiers on trial for rape and murder. He made some comment about how this is common in today's military. Then he turned to me and asked me what I thought ofthat. I just told him it was his opinion and he allowed to believe what he wants. In the beginning of the class he made a statement to "wrap up" the topic from friday. He stated that the atomic attacks on Japan came after the fact the Japanese to surrender. I rolled my eyes and smiled knowing that he spent all weekend thinking up some fact so he could get the last word in.
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Damn, I feel bad for you. That guy is a tool and is a shame he is "teaching". Do your best to keep cool and ignore the salamander.
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From "For The Common Defense" by Allan R. Millett & Peter Maslowski:
"The Japanese government sensed Russia's new policy when it tried to find some third party to negotiate peace with the Allies after April 1945."
"An Allied declaration from Potsdam threatened the Japanese with worse war but also hinted at a negotiated settlement. The Japanese repsponse was equally subect to misinterpretation. Although the Japanese intent was to explore the terms, the American government thought the response a contemptuous declaration of continued war."
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Damn, I feel bad for you. That guy is a tool and is a shame he is "teaching". Do your best to keep cool and ignore the salamander.
The last day Im going to have a few choice words for him.
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Originally posted by Sandman
From "For The Common Defense" by Allan R. Millett & Peter Maslowski:
"The Japanese government sensed Russia's new policy when it tried to find some third party to negotiate peace with the Allies after April 1945."
"An Allied declaration from Potsdam threatened the Japanese with worse war but also hinted at a negotiated settlement. The Japanese repsponse was equally subect to misinterpretation. Although the Japanese intent was to explore the terms, the American government thought the response a contemptuous declaration of continued war."
His answer was not informed nor did he even know if his answer was right. His statement was more along the lines of the attacks happened after the war was over and that we only did them as tests to see what would happen when atomic power was used on a town/city. I shortened it so I wouldnt have to make yall yeard more.
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Originally posted by BlueJ1
The last day Im going to have a few choice words for him.
Your best bet is to have some words with the administration. I'd tape some of his "lessons" and have them available for corroboration. If the admin wants the tapes, make sure they only get a copy, keep the original for yourself.
Just going off on the teacher, especially before grades are posted, is not the best policy. You have no "leverage" on him to make him change his "style" of teaching or his curriculum. He knows you won't be back the next year and his position is not dependent on your satisfaction. You might also invite an associate to a couple classes, perhaps some kind of journalist. (I'm assuming this is a college class you are in right now)
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Originally posted by BlueJ1
The class all recieved a newspaper and he made us read an article on the soldiers on trial for rape and murder. He made some comment about how this is common in today's military. Then he turned to me and asked me what I thought ofthat. I just told him it was his opinion and he allowed to believe what he wants.
its not as near as bad as it used to be .. look back thru history ...
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Google the terms "Operation Downfall," "Operation Olympic," and "Operation Coronet."
Read the casualty estimates developed by U.S. military intelligence for these invasions of Japan.
Bone up on the statistics: Japanese army strength, numbers of suicide planes and other apparatus, home-guard militias and weaponry.
Don't remember where I read it exactly, but you should have no trouble find it, but the following statistic is stunning: In the first few days of the invasion American invasion forces were expected to lose 1,000 soldiers an hour. Three hours to equal what we've lost in Iraq in three years.
Make lists...memorize them...then cut your teacher off at the knees when he spouts his nonsense at you in the classroom.
Regards, Shuckins
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Originally posted by Shuckins
Bone up on the statistics: Japanese army strength, numbers of suicide planes and other apparatus, home-guard militias and weaponry.
and the Japanese civi's who off themselves like they did en masse on that other island... err... can't remember its name now.
Seriously bluej1, I've had crap teachers too. It sucks. Good teachers are a rare find these days, but you do appreciate them when you find them. Take comfort in knowing this guy will never be anything more than he currently is, which he probably knows already and is the reason for his bitterness.
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I have to find info on Bush's military records tonight for tomorrow's class. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by BlueJ1
I have to find info on Bush's military records tonight for tomorrow's class. :rolleyes:
Time to tip off your Homeland Defence department :D
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Ask him to produce records of his own military service. Or, failing that, ask him to produce academic records to prove that he actually holds a degree.
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Originally posted by Sandman
From "For The Common Defense" by Allan R. Millett & Peter Maslowski:
"The Japanese government sensed Russia's new policy when it tried to find some third party to negotiate peace with the Allies after April 1945."
"An Allied declaration from Potsdam threatened the Japanese with worse war but also hinted at a negotiated settlement. The Japanese repsponse was equally subect to misinterpretation. Although the Japanese intent was to explore the terms, the American government thought the response a contemptuous declaration of continued war."
Sandy....
Suggest you also check out Downfall by Frank and Hirohito and the Making of Modern Japan by Bix.
Both these are written with extensive access to Japanese archives. Bix's book is particularly interesting because its based on Hirohito's very recently unsealed diaries.
Bottom line: while many have opposed the use if the bomb based on Japan's helplessness and apparent "peace" getures, those gestures were NOT what the anti-nuclear activist would wish. There was NO evidence of willingness to accept unconditional surrender, and overtures to third countries were made with the specific goal of preserving Japanese governmental structures even after defeat.
At the end of a Second World War that many felt grew out of the mismanaged end of the First, there was simply NO WAY that Japanese preconditions would be accepted, adn so NO CHANCE that peace could be negotiated with Hirohito on the throne.
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After class walking in the hall I had 4 kids, all about a year younger then me, shake my hand and thank me for serving our country. Ive had adults do this before but never a teenager.
You would be surprised at the gaining conservative movement on campuses across the country. I'd say my campus was split about 50-50 liberal to conservative.
It's only about 5% of the total population that are foaming at the mouth radicals of either side.
Unfortunately, most of the professors who use their position to put out political viewpoints are bullies. They try to use their place as a higher standing, to talk over and to redicule anyone who questions them. But like any bully, they back down with a good strong kick to the face by someone who is better then them (metaphorically speaking that is).
Anyway, unluckily (or possibly luckily based on your point of view) I have had no teachers in about 7 semesters of college who were foaming at the mouth about any political viewpoints. I dream about smashing down a professor who decides that politics are more important then teaching. But, I think my school has done a great job to make sure that hasn't happened.
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Its a highschool class. Im taking it in summer school to go for a advanced regents diploma instead of the regular one.
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This all reminds me of some of my own school days and teachers. There were always the liberal teachers and the reactionary teachers. I remember in history class my friend John who was a bit of a republican, an Irish republican that is, IRA etc. He used to get into ridiculous arguments with the teacher. He would espouse fiery anti British actions and pro IRA statements. She would argue back. The rest of the class would just sit there bored. What was interesting was that despite his anti British palaver. He had no problem with one of our classmates who was only staying in school until he was old enough to join the Royal Navy. The British Royal Navy that is!
Another teacher at first seemed the reasonable type, was young even dressed cool. Then he opened his mouth and it turned out to be a right wing reactionary religious zealot. He seemed to hate us teenagers. He was scary and was soon hated.
Another had taught in a rough US high school. He used to tell us stories of guns and knives in the class. He used to explain how he never turned his back on the class even when writing on the blackboard.
Our favourite teacher though was a no nonsense American who used to cover our religion class. Now the problem, as he admitted himself, that he was in fact an atheist. Ireland being Ireland, it seems there was no conflict in putting an atheist in charge of the religious class:O He got round it by reading extracts from Micheal Moorcock novels, which are quasi spiritual of sorts. Much more entertaining than boring old religion.
He did it for years, my brother was ten years younger than me and went to the same school after I left. He was still there, still not teaching religion to the religion class.
The school library was interesting. It contained a couple of copies of Mein Kampf and Communist literature side by side. How many school libraries have copies of Mein Kampf? The Communist stuff arrived after the Soviet Embassy was invited to give a lecture on Soviet history. It was delivered in the hall by a nervous sweaty 'cultural attache'. It told us nothing we didn't know. The Russian Revolution was extensively studied in our history classes. There were a lot of tough questions from the floor afterwards and he got progressively sweatier and often consulted another colleague who we assumed was a KGB agent :noid :lol . Afterwards he didn't wait for tea and biscuits or another interrogation but fled for the safety of the Soviet embassy.
Ah happy days!
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The most popular teacher in my old high school for more than 2 decades was a guy by the name of Rip DePascal. He is still being talked about 30+ years later. He taught American History. He was a B26 Pilot in WW2. He was a great teacher and a very good man.
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My Geography (geography of Europe) teacher in college brought a flounder gig to class first couple times. I was in my mid thirties, a non-trad student. I said something about it finally and he quit bringing it. One time he started about Dresden, and I spoke up immediately and said I was tired of the Allies getting all the blame and said Dresden was a legitimate target and if he was to blame someone blame the Germans. He disagreed but didn't press the issue.
He moved on the lecture and didn't mention it again. Made an A in the class and we had no problems. Of course I wore my hunting outfit to class a couple times...boots, camo suit and orange coat, because I was going hunting right after class. This was right before Europe was to unite (1990) and start using the Euro as currency. The prof made regular trips to Ireland and England, so I figured he knew his stuff. But he wasn't used to students speaking up. Most of the students in that class were around 18. He wasn't a bad guy though.
Les
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I had a geography of Europe teacher last semester. I found him to be an amazing guy. He's from England, the only person from a very small town to actually go on to college. He's travelled the world, speaks a few languages (English, German, Russian), has lived for extended periods of time in numerous countries ranging from USA/Canada to many Euro nations to way out there former USSR nations I can't even pronounce much less spell. His father was in the British 8th Army fighting Rommel in Afrika, and he relayed many interesting stories.
He'd let us debate about topics ranging from the IRA to the European Welfare State. He'd present as devil's advocate for both sides of any given debate in the same session, and he'd make fun of just about everyone. I honestly have no idea where his political views are, because he never tried to force anything down our throats. About the only thing I know for sure, is he hates British wine and Venice's pidgeons.
In sum, he's the most worldly and fair, hell, I'd say best, professor I've ever had.
I came on these boards and tried to talk about a few things I'd learned in class, and was promptly told that I had been completely brainwashed and he was a liberal [insert "clever" taunt here].
Basically just typed this story to tell you, BlueJ, there are some good ones out there. You have to hang in there with the bad ones. If college should teach you one thing, it should be that sometimes in life it is better to bite your tongue and smile and nod rather than speak up and cause a big fuss for yourself. You'll get alot further in life by controlling your temper and whatnot then by constantly fighting battles that don't need to be fought. Save your anger for when you really need it.
Then again, your teacher was clearly a total salamander. I'd say bring in that recorder and maybe have a meeting with his department chair. Make sure to have an appointment though. You want to seem as professional as possible in contrast to this idiot (it shouldn't be hard).
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Side note - you know, someday I will be a history teacher at a highschool or college. I'm going to have to teach the events that are unfolding right now. How the heck I'm going to do that fairly, I have no idea. It will be pretty hard talking about 9/11 and not letting my contempt for the hijackers show. But, in the interest of fairness, it can't.
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History ends with an event; everything written subsequent to it is marred in some way by speculation or agenda.
A true and accurate accounting of any complex event is hard to find, since the intention and mindset of the participants is never known. The key players may never give a true accounting of their thought process.
The truth usually lies somewhere in the middle of both sides version of events.
Would the allies have suffered a million casualties? It doesn't seem reasonable unless every person is counted as a casualty twice.
37 divisions were earmarked for possible invasion. That's only about 550,000 men.
The million man casualty number was used by two people - MacArthur and Truman. MacArthur used it because he wanted the Allies to accept the surrender being offered by the Japanese through the Swiss. The same conditions the Japanese offered were the conditions proclaimed and set after the war.
Truman was under terrific political attacks for the tactical blunder of Iwo Jima by representatives of families of servicemen killed and wounded there, even by military men within the War Department. Many said it was an avoidable slaughter for an island that had little use, made worse by a frontal assault made in haste and continued in bull-headedness.
The island was blockaded, the Japanese soldiers were near starvation, two to three weeks of bombardment by sea and air would have dessimated and contained them there without the need for 20,000 American casualties. Truman was facing Congressional investigations about Iwo Jima and also the use of the atomic bombs.
Five out of the six 5-star rank officers went on record as saying the use of the atomic bombs was unecessary for the war effort. Only Gen. Marshall, the Washington D.C. 5-star general, agreed with its use.
The remainder said that the war was essentially over after Okinawa and the total blockade of Japan was starving the military and the civilian population since Japan did not have the capacity to feed itself. No fuel, no steel, cities and the industrial base was devasted, and continuing to be destroyed piece by piece, day by day, as the Allies controlled the skies over Japan. Most commanders thought the war would be finished by Autumn without the need for an invasion.
You can believe whatever version of history you want to believe, but reading only one version will not likely lead you to understanding anything closer to the truth. The "truth" is never certain because war is politics gone mad, and politics is war, a part of war, and a part of the stories we call history.
{added} I want to add that I am in no way endorsing anything that your teacher has supposedly said. All we have here is an unnamed person talking about what an unnamed person supposedly said. And that is why I said at the very top of the tread that I find it all a little fishy.
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I had a crappy teacher this year too. I tried to be nice and all, but he TRIED to fail me. He was my woodshop teacher, and he approved all my designs, and then the day before it was due told me to start all over. there was no way to finish in time, and im lucky i got a D.
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Did you do the work? Sounds like an art class. Some of them are tough.
Les
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Would the allies have suffered a million casualties? It doesn't seem reasonable unless every person is counted as a casualty twice.
The two million casualty estimate numbers included the japanese as well. The emperor would literally have given everyone a pointed stick and marched them to the beach to fight the invaders. And what is more, the japs would have been glad to do what the emperor says.
So, considering that 95% of the japanese would have fought the invaders on the beach, 2 mil casualties (casualty doesn't literally mean death) sounds reasonable.
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yeah rolex... the japs were not cruel people who would ever think of fighting to last man or suicide attacks or of butchering pow's....
How could anyone think that these gentle paper folders and flower arrangers would be part of a whole island being killed off to allmost the last man?
read your own damn history. The five generals you talk about all wanted to invade. This is not an uncommon trait in generals especially in WWII and especialy in a war that was all but won with all the resources in the world to play with. I imagine that they felt that the A bomb robbed em. There are plenty of generals who will say that bombing of any kind is not needed.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
yeah rolex... the japs were not cruel people who would ever think of fighting to last man or suicide attacks or of butchering pow's....
How could anyone think that these gentle paper folders and flower arrangers would be part of a whole island being killed off to allmost the last man?
read your own damn history. The five generals you talk about all wanted to invade. This is not an uncommon trait in generals especially in WWII and especialy in a war that was all but won with all the resources in the world to play with. I imagine that they felt that the A bomb robbed em. There are plenty of generals who will say that bombing of any kind is not needed.
lazs
Hell, there are witnesses that saw the EAT POWs. They thought it would give them bravery. And Leslie, yes i did all the work. But every time, a day before it was do, he made me start over. He waited weeks sometimes just to make sure i didnt have enough time to finish!
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eating a few POW's does not make them bad people...
Where is your compassion? Heck... they bow and fold paper and stuff.
And... you can make a bundle sucking up to em.
lazs
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lol. Hell, George H. W. Bush might care! It was HIS squad-mates that got eaten!
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The class is now watching Bowling for Columbine...ugh....
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Why don't you suggest the next film be CaddyShack as it will be an equally accurate and correct representation of a golf country club.
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Originally posted by lazs2
if you don't pretend to be awed by their ideas you won't make it through the system.
lazs
Kind of like speaking out against the use if inaccurate information, and outing a CIA agent spouse in a fit of revenge.
You're beginning to bore me.
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Originally posted by Maverick
Why don't you suggest the next film be CaddyShack as it will be an equally accurate and correct representation of a golf country club.
:rofl :aok
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red bottom... please explain... Are you saying that if you do not agree, in an outspoken way, with teachers lefty views you WILL make it through the system?
It may happen but it would take a very strong person to get through that. Much easier to just smile and listen to their crap.
And... If I am just now beggining to bore you then I guess I am doing ok considering that you hang on my every post.
lazs
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Originally posted by Rolex
The remainder said that the war was essentially over after Okinawa and the total blockade of Japan was starving the military and the civilian population since Japan did not have the capacity to feed itself. No fuel, no steel, cities and the industrial base was devasted, and continuing to be destroyed piece by piece, day by day, as the Allies controlled the skies over Japan. Most commanders thought the war would be finished by Autumn without the need for an invasion.
Up until 1998 you could have told this to my Grandfather who fought on Guam, Okinawa and until Feb 1946 in the Occupation of China, and he would have either have gotten mad (he still never ever cussed), or laughed. News flash, the Japanese didn't care about "Hirohito's surrender". They were still shooting GI's, Chinese, etc. The Japanese were waffling on the terms of surrender, they called a bluff, and well. My grandfather nor were his fellow Marines tickled pink over the thought of an Amphibious Assault on Yokohama Bay.
You can believe whatever version of history you want to believe, but reading only one version will not likely lead you to understanding anything closer to the truth. The "truth" is never certain because war is politics gone mad, and politics is war, a part of war, and a part of the stories we call history.
Between the many books and what my grandfather experienced, I have a grasp on what happened.
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BlueJ1
WHen i read this post...right when it started..I thought immediatly of thsi article written in Military History Quartly
Ill link it ..It is EXCELLENT..and will give you PLENTY of "ammo" to combat your "teacher"
The Utility Of War
http://www.thehistorynet.com/mhq/blutilityofwar/index.html
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lolo.."outing" a cia...secratary?..lolol..redtail ur fun knee
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Today: I walked up to him and kicked him in the junk...
Oh wait..I dreamed that while the class was drooling over micheal moore's amazing facts. :rolleyes:
Thanks BGBMAW, I dont even bother anymore. My first few conflicts with him were enough for me. Knowing he spent his time off looking for material to use aganst one of his students is enough for me.
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News flash, the Japanese didn't care about "Hirohito's surrender". They were still shooting GI's, Chinese, etc.
Some were, though not even close to being a majority.
The key to the nuclear bombs going off was not the killing of thousands of people, but what the emperor did.
Up until that point the emperor was a god, literally. He was thought to be the son of the gods. His word reigned supreme. You did what he said. Or you were dishonored and killed yourself because of it. No one spoke to the emperor except the extremely close advisors.
What the bombs did was make the Emperor come out of his palace and address the nation on the radio. The emperor had to tell the nation that he was not a god, and that fighting the war was not worth the lives of anymore japanese.
The closest analogy I can think of would be if Jesus Christ was alive today. Imagine that he goes about preaching, doing miracles and claiming to be the son of god. Then one day he goes on TV and admits that he is not the son of god, and it is not worth it to follow his teachings.
You would be stupefied to the point of inaction.