Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: bkbandit on July 08, 2006, 02:28:21 AM
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I fly f4u1d alot and just started to use f4u1. I figured the f4u1 would hav a tougher time competiing wit alot of the regular m/a planes back dam. No wonder the japs hated this thing, it must have been a shock to them when it first came out. Its faster then the d model???? i mean i never got 400mph on the cruze in the d but i get it wit the 1, im i crazy. Is it supposed to be like this.
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Just take a look at http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=f4u1&p2=f4u1d (http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=f4u1&p2=f4u1d)
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Yes,
The -1 will climb and accelerate slower but will outurn and is faster than the -1D at similar loads.
The -1D had more HP and a paddle blade prop but was hindered by the additional drag of two large underwing pylons otherwise it would be much faster.
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Although the difference in maneuverability between the -1 and -1D isn't REALLY significant. -1 turns tighter on a horizontal plane, but the -1D is better in the vertical.
I still want a TRUE F4U-1A, which depending on how you look at it, is either an F4U-1 with the paddle prop and greatly improved acceleration/climb, and bubble canopy, or a 1D without the underwing pylons and larger internal fuel capacity.
Where's your performance chart, FD? I'd like to see the one you have for the -1A speed/accel/rate of climb with the -1 and -1D super-imposed.
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Originally posted by Saxman
Although the difference in maneuverability between the -1 and -1D isn't REALLY significant. -1 turns tighter on a horizontal plane, but the -1D is better in the vertical.
I still want a TRUE F4U-1A, which depending on how you look at it, is either an F4U-1 with the paddle prop and greatly improved acceleration/climb, and bubble canopy, or a 1D without the underwing pylons and larger internal fuel capacity.
Where's your performance chart, FD? I'd like to see the one you have for the -1A speed/accel/rate of climb with the -1 and -1D super-imposed.
We have an F4U-1A, sort of.... The F4U-1C is simply a rearmed F4U-1A.
My regards,
Widewing
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Heavier and not as maneuverable because of the cannon, tho, IIRC. 1C in the game also has the rocket rails and two pylons for external tanks/bombs which the 1A didn't (single centerline hardpoint for a drop tank or up to a 1000lb bomb like the -1, with no rockets). So the Charlie is really closer to a 1D in that regard.
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Originally posted by Saxman
Heavier and not as maneuverable because of the cannon, tho, IIRC. 1C in the game also has the rocket rails and two pylons for external tanks/bombs which the 1A didn't (single centerline hardpoint for a drop tank or up to a 1000lb bomb like the -1, with no rockets). So the Charlie is really closer to a 1D in that regard.
This is true as relates to early F4U-1As, but later aircraft were upgraded in the field to include rocket tabs and so on. Early -1As were also retrofitted with water injection. The 1As were constantly being improved in the field and many served alongside the D models later in the war.
Would adding an F4U-1A be welcomed? You bet. Maybe when the Corsairs get their graphics update.... I suspect that when HTC gets to the Pacific fighters, we'll see several new fighters added (some Japanese and some Allied). However, that is probably several months behind the release of Combat Tour.
My regards,
Widewing
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Still, this would make the 1A more of the top dogfighter of the early-model Hog?
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I would like to have a early 1943 F4U-1 lighter without the stall fix and no water along with a 1944 F4U-1A with paddle prop and uprated engine.
Our current -1A is a hybrid.
The best tibute to the F4U in AH is the fact that of the 4 of them here two have to be perked. Even monsters like the 190D and 109K can be flown without that distinction.
FYI
A little while ago I visited the national archives and tripped over some interesting material.
1. Some of it showed the use of "chemical warefare tanks" being tested in the F4U and F6F. It even had charts discribing the smell of various chemicals such as mustard gas etc.
2. Also it showed a letter written by the fleet compaining about the deletion of the addtional tanks in the F4U-1, appantly they didn't like the loss of performance caused by the DT's but the Navy brass didn't want the cost of repair or the maintainance involved in servicing the cronically leaky wing tanks. They tested several types without success.
3. Also they tested mutiple paint finishes on the F4U-1 with and effect on speed from the high 380'sMPH to almost 420MPH with glossy Blue paint. Almost 40MPH in total speed just from paint.
There was so much material I could not even begin to get started. It is a haul to get there though so maybe next time I will find more.
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with a lite breeze all corairs hit 400mph+. BUt theres no wind in m/a, it would really help when upin of the deck wit bombs.
The charts are cool but i wouldnt bet the farm on them, all the tests r done in the weeds, this is not where u want to operate wit the corsair. According to them i wouldnt turn wit a ki84 in a p51d and on the deck this is true but not up in the air.
Accel and climb rate is lower but all i fly is f4u and f6f so i really dont notice it much. but at speed it feels more nimble then the f4ud, f4ud has bubble canopy but again i fly f6f so its not a problem. i would really like to see a f4u1a, honeslty i just want to see somethin new period, when the hell is combat tour goin to be finished.
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Actually, if you can't out-turn a P-51 at ANY altitude, you're either doing something wrong or up against a hotter stick than the usual Runstang dweeb. Equal pilots F4U should dominate a Pony in a turn fight at ANY alt.
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Originally posted by F4UDOA
but was hindered by the additional drag of two large underwing pylons otherwise it would be much faster.
My guess would be that the difference in drag is mostly due to the different canopy. But I've been wrong before.
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no saxman i have done in a ki84 in a p51, funny thing is that he tryed to dive away:lol. a couple of hi speed turns and a hi yo yo , dead ki84.
51d at full cruze at alt is dangerous to a f4ud, i hav killed many of them on bomber escort runs. i remember one f4u4 i chased down in a 51d, he must have forgot i can turn good at high speed or somethin, i robed him of his points quick.
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Bozon,
I have a NAVAIR doc that shows the F4U-1D without Pylons at 368MPH on the deck and 435MPH which as almost a match to the F4U-1A. So I know the -1D can go fast but not with everything hanging off of it.
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that f4u1a sounds fun, i just assume it doesnt accel as fast as the d model. either way it sounds good. wit speed like that it would bridge the gap between f4u4 and f4ud.
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FD: Can you post your 1A climb/accel/speed charts with the AH 1 and 1D super-imposed for comparison? The later 1As used the same engine as the 1D, so wouldn't the reduced drag of the A-hog give her slighty BETTER acceleration?
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Saxman,
I just figured out FD was me.
I will scan the stuff I have. I would imagine the beefed up -1A would be less draggy and accelerate better than the D with pylons.
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Ah! Lol!
Cool, yeah, that's what I thought.
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The Hog just might be the most beautiful plane of WW2, along with the Mustang. Those gull wings are just sexy (gazes longingly). That is all
:D :aok
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i was watchin a doc the other day about the corsairs, they had some of the pilots on it and they showed one flying. Are cockpit isnt accurate, why???? pacific fighters got it right why cant aces high do the same, they did the jug good and the 51 good(from wat i see) why isnt the corsair right. The pilots they interviewd also said something about the zero, they said it couldnt turn left that good(or was it right). People say dont listen to the docs but how can u tell a old man that flew the thing in the pacific hes wrong. If when of u guys can check that out it would be great.
ALot of hardcore corsair guys argue that the f4u was a better plane then the 51d. But in the aces high world its corsair all day(unless i ahve to babysit bombers for 2 hours:lol ).
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Originally posted by bkbandit
i was watchin a doc the other day about the corsairs, they had some of the pilots on it and they showed one flying. Are cockpit isnt accurate, why???? pacific fighters got it right why cant aces high do the same, they did the jug good and the 51 good(from wat i see) why isnt the corsair right.
The Corsairs will get a new cockpit when the graphics are updated, as has been the P-51s and P-47s.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by LEADPIG
The Hog just might be the most beautiful plane of WW2, along with the Mustang. Those gull wings are just sexy (gazes longingly). That is all
:D :aok
Traitor
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Originally posted by Raptor
Traitor
Lol :D
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Originally posted by bkbandit
i was watchin a doc the other day about the corsairs, they had some of the pilots on it and they showed one flying. Are cockpit isnt accurate, why???? pacific fighters got it right why cant aces high do the same, they did the jug good and the 51 good(from wat i see) why isnt the corsair right. The pilots they interviewd also said something about the zero, they said it couldnt turn left that good(or was it right). People say dont listen to the docs but how can u tell a old man that flew the thing in the pacific hes wrong. If when of u guys can check that out it would be great.
ALot of hardcore corsair guys argue that the f4u was a better plane then the 51d. But in the aces high world its corsair all day(unless i ahve to babysit bombers for 2 hours:lol ).
almost every single engine plane ever built, with the exception of some yaks (& griffon powered spits iirc) have the prop turning the same way (not those kewl contrarotating prop planes either), so they all turn left a bit better than the other way at low speed (varies depending on model, trim, etc).
i remember reading some PRO pliot's book a long time ago who said that zeros would always break left if they spotted you about to bounce them & if you knew this it wouldn't make too much difference if they did spot you...
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updates please, i want somethin new. I hope it comes soon. Aces high should get that sound pack from waffle and save it on the site. I got it a month ago and dont noe how i played witout them, them really add to the realism of the game. The sounds that come wit the game suck after u heard these.
f4u feels like a hotrod to me, im just waiting to bolt a mr gasket air scoop on the thing and add some blue ghost flames and maybe some magnaflow pipes. Maybe instead of a fresh coat of black i should through some blue on my camaro:lol . Whether u love the corsair or hate it u wont confuse it for any other plane.
Maybe today i will get some game time, its either i cant get time or im playin somethin else, this dam DRIVER parallel lines got me hooked wit those muscle cars.
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Originally posted by Raptor
Traitor
I'm innocent,....... honest !!!! :D :D :p :p
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The F4u 1 was an excellent fighter!The main problem with this early model was the positioning of the mimi bar on he left side of the cockpit,which when fully loaded with Bud would cause dramatic swing to the left on take off,also after consumtion of the mini bar contents most pilots found their vision impaired,and this was not helped by the bird cage hood,This made landings very difficult,and it's no wonder it got the reputatuon as the ensign eliminator!Only able to carry 200 pkts of cigarettes in each wing,but their was a bottle opener on the JOY stick - in case of emergency.
It was the British who solved the problem of the mini bar and the massive swing left on take off!Making it larger to take the more potent British beer,and placing it behind the pilot.this proved effective at all altitudes.The british also added an optional optic which could take Plymouth gin & assorted mixers though most brits found tonic most effective,provision for 600 pkts of woodbines in each wing was considered a big improvement by most pilots though landing was still difficult so oxygen and alker - seltzer were added and this imroved matters. On this version the bottle opener was removed for saftey reasons,though cigarette holder and ashtray were provided
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2 prototypes based on the F4u1 were the x. aPR version fitted only with an esspreso machine!!!And the ill fated tandem trainer model which carried a fully trained cocktail waitress in the rear,which most students found distracting and so the project was scrapped:confused: :mad:
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Yes, its supposed to be better. The early model of the Corsair was faster, and more manueverable, as well as a more stable gun platform, because, although it had fewer guns, the fuel was still in the wing (Not entirely sire what difference that makes, but according to F4U pilots, it makes it a much better fighter), but, in the later versions, the added one more gun to each wing, and had to move the fuel tanks into the fuselage, which for some reasons reduces performance. Im not sure about the science of it, but thats the what.
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Originally posted by Debonair
almost every single engine plane ever built, with the exception of some yaks (& griffon powered spits iirc) have the prop turning the same way (not those kewl contrarotating prop planes either), so they all turn left a bit better than the other way at low speed (varies depending on model, trim, etc).
i remember reading some PRO pliot's book a long time ago who said that zeros would always break left if they spotted you about to bounce them & if you knew this it wouldn't make too much difference if they did spot you...
Its not just that. If a Zero gets on your tail, DIVE. Wait until you are doing about 400-500mph, then break hard right. He will not be able to follow. The faster a zero goes, the harder it is to turn right. If they ever dive, they will break left. Simple.
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F4U-1 has the same number of guns as the 1D. The difference is that the outboard pair has less ammo.
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You sure? It shouldnt have as many... there should be 2 fewer total guns on the very earliest models.
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During development, the XF4U I THINK mounted twin .50s in the nose and a pair of .30s in each wing. However the Americans learned from reports by the RAF at the Battle of Britain that the .30s were insufficient for modern aircraft armament, so the cowl guns were moved to the wings (and in their place was an enlarged main fuel tank) and the four .30s were removed from the wings. Initially they replaced each pair of .30s with a single .50 cal (for a total of four Browning M2s) but BEFORE the aircraft was adopted into full production the armament was further increased to the six Brownings.
So yes, the evolution of the F4Us armament DID at one point include four .50 cal, but this was changed before the aircraft ever entered production, and as AFAIK, excluding the cannon-armed 1C, 4B and later models, no regular-production Corsair carried fewer than the usual US "six-pack."
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Okay... i knew there was a lighter armament at SOME point... thanks! :D
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the zero turns horrible wit speed, if it aint in the weeds and goin 150mph its no good(all u hardcore zeros guys sorry, i watch alot of PTO and have a natural hate for jap planes:lol ). that zero tops out at 320mph at alt, and wit that air under it cant dive. at 400mph a couple of high g turns all cause him to break off.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
(all u hardcore zeros guys sorry, i watch alot of PTO and have a natural hate for jap planes:lol ).
YAY!!! Me too! :D :aok :D :aok :D *High-Five*
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While my favorite Zero-killer is the F6F, the F4U does hold a special place for me. It was the first piston fighter I actually liked. It kicks ass, much like the F6F, when flown right.
(http://webpages.charter.net/wbarritt/bg-navalairpower05a.jpg)
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great pic, those 2 together are nothin but trouble.theres a good chance if im not in f4u im in a hellcat, she just got it where it counts.
IMO all the best fighters in the game come off the carrier deck.
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Lightweight planes with powerful engines have a hard time rotating against the torque, hence the problems with quick banking in one direction.
It should be less of an issue with higher speeds.
I believe the Sopwith Camel of WWI was known for poor handling if turned against the torque and caused quite a few crashes as a result.
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F4UDOA - You get those charts scanned to compare the -1, -1A and -1D?
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Negative,
I am a big dork, I have been tied up with junk.
The one I want to post is the F4U-1D from mid 1944. It is almost identical to the -1D we have except the top speeds are much higher in the clean condition.
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ive been all over the place too, i havent even been playing.