Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Fury on November 09, 2000, 07:01:00 AM
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http://www.sun-sentinel.com/elections/palmbeachballot.htm (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/elections/palmbeachballot.htm)
Please, someone explain to me how ignorant you have to be to "accidently" vote for Buchanan.
If someone is ignorant enough to punch out a hole that is not next to an arrow.....
If someone is ignorant enough to not ask questions if they question something on their ballot.....
Give me a break!
Fury
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Yep, to dumb to read directions, too dumb to vote.
All spin.... It's embarrassing for us FL residents.
Eagler
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I guess the "Socialist Workers" Party ticket wuz robbed by the "Workers World" Party in that case. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Or is it just Democratic voters that had a problem there...I have heard of being disengaged by the election process, but unconcious while voting?
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JimBear: LOL
"Is it just Democratic voters that had a problem there" Sure sounds like it.
Good point. Wish I'd a thought of that.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) <S>
Gunthr
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One of the stories I read on this earlier said the head of elections in Palm Beach is a democrat (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
And it says they sent out test samples of the ballots before the elections, and noone said anything about them then.
The ballot shown in the link you provided looks very straight forward to me, no confusion at all here. Prime example of people not wanting take an extra minute and read the directions before making an arse out of themselves. Pick your candidate, follow the arrow, punch the hole it points at. I can understand why that head of elections person is defending her work. Too bad all them stuck up folks can't just admit they screwed up.
I say make'em stand by thier screwups. Hell they could've asked for help and gotten it.
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Hmm,
20,000 ballots, yes twenty thousand ballots were thrown out in Palm beach county. Not including the ones that were counted as Pat Buchanon votes. That's a big number. What happened?
Well George W. Bush is the Republican canidate, brother Jeb is the Governer of Florida and Father George Senior is the Ex-director of the CIA. An agency which specializes in fixing elections. Sounds to me like somebody better call Agents Mulder and Scully, I think we have an X file (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Just for the record either winner of this election will be so tainted by it, that it will be almost impossible to govern effectively. In any case I wouldn't expect to hear the end of this until Dec. 18th, which is the date the Electorial votes are cast.
Later
F4UDOA
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Yeah Cavey...I just read a story this morning that said the lady in charge of the elections in West Palm Beach county is a democrat and that she wanted the ballot designed that way because of the fact that there were so many candidates for President. She said in the story that she had it made that way so they could make the names bigger to make them easier to read. How funny is it that nobody complained about the ballot earlier?
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In all fairness gents - give them a break, I can see where they're coming from. Keep in mind that for lots of people all the stuff you do to get to this BBS for example would be totally incomprehensible.
We had a guy at university who could do complicated arithmetics in his head but he could not sing a single note right - it didn't mean he was dumb or treated the rest of us with calculators like dumbs. Just different, OK?
The lot of you are behaving like a bunch of spoiled Republican brats (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
The problem is that the form can be misleading and that's where the problem lies. Surely no-one could predict the nail-biting finale in Florida - why can't they just come clean and accept that they'd f**ked up with the form design (which they obviously did)?
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lynx
13 Sqn RAF
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Originally posted by -lynx-:
The lot of you are behaving like a bunch of spoiled Republican brats (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
The problem is that the form can be misleading and that's where the problem lies. Surely no-one could predict the nail-biting finale in Florida - why can't they just come clean and accept that they'd f**ked up with the form design (which they obviously did)?
Won't fly. The ballot has been used before in past elections without any problems. Oh yeah, it was also created by the DEMOCRAT election supervisor of the West Palm Beach area. It's all spin. Sad part is, if the military vote doesn't add up, it'll work and Gore head will be our "LEADER" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
What a freaking joke.... Enough smoke and mirrors they can get away with anything!
Eagler
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This ballot issue is just a smoke screen for some real skull-duggery going on behind the scenes!!! Wexler has been all over the media the past 2 days with this non-issue!!!
We will see this afternoon what has really been going on that Wexler has been the smoke screen for and I hope it isn't too outrageous!!
Gosh, wouldn't it be a nice time to suspend the constitution and keep Bill Clinton as Pres till this can be sorted out???
And don't think this hasn't crossed the mind of our current Pres!!!
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Originally posted by 1776:
This ballot issue is just a smoke screen for some real skull-duggery going on behind the scenes!!! Wexler has been all over the media the past 2 days with this non-issue!!!
We will see this afternoon what has really been going on that Wexler has been the smoke screen for and I hope it isn't too outrageous!!
Gosh, wouldn't it be a nice time to suspend the constitution and keep Bill Clinton as Pres till this can be sorted out???
And don't think this hasn't crossed the mind of our current Pres!!!
I was think the War Emergency Act (think that's what its called)where a President won't step down during a national security issue. Couple of cruise missle in the general direction of ole bin laden and Clinton continues. He could use this excuse no matter who wins.
Eagler
ps
while you wait for the recount: http://www.tvdance.com/bush-gore/ (http://www.tvdance.com/bush-gore/)
[This message has been edited by Eagler (edited 11-09-2000).]
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The real problem I have is that these people have no idea who they really voted for. Is that the fault of Bush or Gore? No!
It's the fault of those individuals who didn't take the time to read the instructions and never checked to make sure they had the correct vote.
I don't see why these morons should be able to vote again? If they get to then the whole nation should be able to.
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He heeee nice link (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
People here in the mid-west are outraged at what has happened in St louis!!! I guess they found a voting machine in an empty lot!!! I hope the FBI comes to Missouri to investigate. Needless to say the election results aren't being challenged.
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That's the point Mighty1
No matter how the Dem's try to spin this, the simple fact remains: The ballot is clear about where to punch for your chosen candidate.
Did these people think the arrows were put there only for decoration? Must just be a strange coincidence that the arror starts next to the candidate's name and points directly to a punch hole.
Lynx I never said they were dumb. I said they couldna be bothered to take an extra minute to completely read the ballot. In the first 5 seconds I looked at that image I understood exactly how it works. I know not everyone will pick it up that quick, but how simple do you have a make a point and click thing? Hell the ballot does the pointing for you, and it's not like the arrows are angled up or down, they're going straight and level across the page directly to a punch hole. There's no abiguity there.
Please explain to me how that ballot can be misleading. There are large, black arrows extending from the candidates name and pointing directly at a punch hole, and as I said, they're straight and level across the page, not at any odd angles.
As for coming clean about messing up the ballot design, I think that woman has every right to defend her work. Lotta old folks in Palm Beach right? It's like a retirement community for the most part? I know my grandparents found larger type easier to read as they got above 70. I'm sure some prefer the smaller type too. But this lady was trying to make it clear, and according to the reports in the stories I've read NOONE had any objections to the ballots when test samples were sent out for opinions. THAT is when these people should have spoken out.
I almost dread the end of the recount, when the ballot smoke will be dropped and something probably worse will be revealed.
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CNN just said that all parties involved approved of the ballot's design prior to the election. I'm sure everyone realizes that some older folks, or people with vision problems or dislexia - whatever - could have some trouble with said ballot, but since it was in fact approved, I doubt a legal challenge would amount to much.
It would be like approving the design of your house before it's built, but deciding you weren't going to pay for it once it was completed because you now realized it's uglier in real life than on paper.
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I second that Caveman. I for one would like to see a sample recount in 10% of the states just for accuracy purposes. This is making Florida look like it was an inside job set up by his brother. I think it's voter stupidity combined with inaccuracies within the voting poll center themselves. The recount is where the numbers are getting hosed not the original vote. I think you'd find discrepancies in every state if you looked. I can only speak for my voting district, but the average age of the poll worker looked about 101. Senior citizen volunteers.
Eagler
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I'm with Lynx. I dunno about that image. Having the huge black text blurbs pointing out where it could be misinterpreted make it pretty damned hard to misinterpret (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) I could see people glancing at that (minus the blurbs) and voting mistakingly. Is that their fault for not taking the time to make sure they understood the ballot? Yep!
That ballot shouldn't invalidate the election, but to me it looks like a poor layout that should be corrected in the future. If nothing else, it could confuse unnecessarily and gives the loser a reason to cry foul.
Gordo
[This message has been edited by Lance (edited 11-09-2000).]
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I saw one of these confused voters on CNN. I don't think he knows which way is up and would be confused by any kind of a ballot. It's sad the Dems have to resort to such actions to overturn the election!!!
[This message has been edited by 1776 (edited 11-09-2000).]
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Run for your lives, Jesse Jackson has decided to stick his nose into it. Be prepared to hear a bunch of jibberish that rhymes.
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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
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In response to a previous post in this thread;
http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/09/election.president/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/09/election.president/index.html)
"Officials in Palm Beach announced 19,120 ballots in the presidential race were tossed out before they were counted because more than one candidate was picked. "
Sounds to me that like the "confused" voters, there were other weenies who "accidently" voted for more than one candidate.
Certainly can't blame officials for ignorant voters.
Besides, it does not say if they are Democratic or Republican voters (how can you tell which one is right if they voted wrong LOL).
Fury
<alsmost as bad as the "lost" ballot box found in a church, that turned out to be a non-issue. Certain Dems were crying foul until they were shown how stupid they were>
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Heard a few people say that on it's own, yah, it's slightly confusing.... but supposedly it's real confusion is caused by how this ballot looks when ya stick it in the machine.
Look, it's fine for us to debate how confusing or simple this ballot is.... but the simple fact is that it confused the toejam out of more than 20,000 people who had their votes trashed because of it. Calling them "morons" seems a little flippant.
Sure, the ballot was approved by some democrat ... as was the Firestone tire design approved by some execs at Ford. In a way.... these things are removed and have nothing to do with the people that have to live with these types of decisions.
This ballot thing.... It's a technicality...and it shouldn't be. Not in a Presidential election. We are talking about the *will* of the people.... no ballot should negate that.
More people in West Palm Beach *intended* to vote for Gore rather than Bush. It's really that simple.
And this means more people in Florida want Gore over Bush. Hell.... More people in the entire country..... two hundred thousand more.... want Gore over Bush.
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With the millions of citizens who voted nationwide, don't you think that the same mistake was probably made in other states? What are we to do, just call it a "do-over" and vote nationwide again? I'm sure there are many thousands who cast errant votes, or had there votes disqualified. The difference is that Florida is in the media spotlight. If no laws were broken, and proper procedures for implementing the ballots were followed, then I say "oh well." Maybe next time they will take a bit more time on something this important.
One thing that makes me curious. Why haven't we heard from any of the other parties complaining about this? I haven't heard anyone mention "Hey I wanted to vote for Nader, but I think I voted for Gore."
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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
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Nash, the danger in calling a revote, is it sets a precedent that anytime the conclusion is not desired, you can simply call fraud and revote.
Now, why not just let them revote? Well, it sounds very logical, but....when those people voted the first time, they did not know the results of every other state in the USA, and every other county in Florda. The only way to correct the problem is to brainwash them to ignore everything that's happened this week and only then have them vote again. If you can figure a way to do that I'm all for it.
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Run for your lives, Jesse Jackson has decided to stick his nose into it. Be prepared to hear a bunch of jibberish that rhymes.
Heh!
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Totally agree Fatty.... A revote would be skewed now I reckon.... knowing, like you said, the outcome of the election. What a mess.
As for your first point... well... it's not about just calling fraud. Nobody with any hope of a long political career would start screaming fraud where no evidence exists. In the event though that evidence *does* exist... well... then he has a point... and every right to find out if the last year and I don't know how many millions of dollars later was just tanked due to fraud. Yeah, he has every right. As much as the people have the right t... er...I'm getting sidetracked here. Fraud isn't the issue in Florida.
Two choices here.
We can have a re-vote with skewed results that, in any event, *would at least* reflect the will of the people in West Palm Beach. At the same time, yes, this sets an extremely dangerous precedent.
Or...
Let stand a result that in fact bears no relation to reality, and give the Presidency to someone who the majority of people in Palm Beach....and Florida....AND the entire United States itself does not want.
Either way, it's a hell of a situation y'all worked yerselves into down there (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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In the 1996 Presidential election, 16,000 votes were invalidated in the same precinct.
No one squeaked about it because Clinton took Florida anyway.
Seems these ballots in question were designed by a democrat and approved by another democrat EVEN AFTER having so many thrown out in 96'
Sample ballots were posted in the media weeks in advance of the election and no one complained. If anyone ***knowingly*** fouled a ballot, they could have destroyed it and legally requested another. I have no sympathy for anyone who screws up their ballot and doesnt even know enough to KNOW that they SCREWED up their ballot.
The Libs are pissng all over themselves and its FUNNY AS HELL.....
Nash said:
Let stand a result that in fact bears no relation to reality, and give the Presidency to someone who the majority of people in Palm Beach....and Florida....AND the entire United States itself does not want.
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Whoa Nash,
Appx One hundred million votes cast and Gore leads the popular vote by appx 200,000. Fact is Bush won a majority of states and lost half a dozen other states by less than 7,000 and three of those by less than 2,000 votes.
There is damned near a plurality of Americans who prefer Bush over Gore. Amazing when you consider the economy!
Yeager
[This message has been edited by Yeager (edited 11-09-2000).]
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What's all the confusion about?
(http://www.twc-tampa.com/mdisalle/Floridaballot.jpg)
Eagler
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Quoteth Yeager:
Appx One hundred million votes cast and Gore leads the popular vote by appx 200,000. Fact is Bush won a majority of states and lost half a dozen other states by less than 7,000 and three of those by less than 2,000 votes.
There is damned near a plurality of Americans who prefer Bush over Gore. Amazing when you consider the economy!
You say there is a plurality of people that prefer Bush over Gore. Not getting into the contradiction problem within' that sentence alone, you are wrong about this. You said it yourself - 200,000 more people voted for Gore. Doesn't matter by how much in whatever state.
The Electoral College result is irrelevant to that. However, as it stands now, Gore is leading there *as well*.
So I don't know exactly what you are trying to say here... and whatever it is, I certainly don't think it merits the "Whoah Nash..." (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
If there is any factual dispute you may have with anything I have said - I invite you to point it out (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
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The best part about this entire election is that it is underlining the importance of a single vote.
Perhaps NEXT time those that do stir their stumps and get out and vote will take the time to MAKE DAMN SURE THEY DO IT RIGHT.
There are no "re-do's".
A vote is one of your most sacred possessions; if you can't take the time to do it right it's no one's fault but your own.
Every single election, in every single state people mark ballots incorrectly.
This ballot was not secret, in fact it was widely shown before the election and APPROVED by all parties.
No whining. They had their chance to do it right. Responsibilities come with the vote; studying the ballot is one of them.
[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 11-09-2000).]
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Originally posted by Nash:
This ballot thing.... It's a technicality...and it shouldn't be. Not in a Presidential election. We are talking about the *will* of the people.... no ballot should negate that.
More people in West Palm Beach *intended* to vote for Gore rather than Bush. It's really that simple.
Nash how is it that u are so in touch with "the will of the people" of West Palm Beach? How do you know that the only people that screwed up really intended to vote for Gore?
There is some degree of truth to your statements, but as a matter of priciple, that quote disgusts me. If the politicians start spouting crap like that and the people start buying it... lookout.
Back in my Thermodynamics course we had the exact same problem appear on 3 separate exams (out of about 5 total), and still there were people that got it wrong all three times. No matter how simple and easy you make something, someone WILL find a way to screw it up. Every voter got the same ballot, and each had as much time and assistance as they wanted. If anyone messed it up, its their own fault and they have to deal with the consequences.
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isn't this delicious, Democrats voting Buchanan (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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I aplogogize if that disgusts you regurge - but I stand by it.
Palm Beach County is a Democratic stronghold. Much the same as Orange County used to be a Republican stronghold. There's no harm in making an assumption such as this.
Yet overnight, It turns out that this liberal population with its many Jewish voters has become the bastion of ultraconservative Buchanan's Reform party?.... giving him a surprising 3,407 votes -- more than three times the votes the candidate received in any other Florida county, and almost 20 percent of his total in the state.
I feel safe in my assumptions Regurge. Appearantly so does even Buchanen himself, saying "it seems to me that these 3,000 votes people are talking about -- most of those are probably not my vote and that may be enough to give the margin to Mr. Gore."
Coupled with the fact that there were many many ballots that ran Dem all the way down the line - then suddenly veered to the Reform party for the Presidential vote. Doesn't strike you as a bit odd?
I don't think I'm going out on a limb on this.
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Right Nash, nobody is silly enough to make the claim of outright fraud, I should have avoided that term replying. You can however make a case for a confusing layout on any ballot if you wanted to though, which is why the ballots are given out for preview prior to use, and the parties are given a chance to object to the layout.
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Originally posted by mietla:
isn't this delicious, Democrats voting Buchanan (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Then Buchanan saying on national tv that he couldn't possible get that many votes and that he believes they are Gores! What a nutcase...
Eagler
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PS - Deciding election mistakes based on what you think people think is extremely dangerous.
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Back to the topic heading, after watching Palm Beach interviews on CNN for the last hour, I do not think there is a danger of the latter happening.
Nice display of ignorance for the world to see (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Eagler
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“Yep, to dumb to read directions, too dumb to vote.”
Ha ha! Very funny. Next we’ll hear blacks are stupid or country folk or stupid… this is ridiculous. I supposed anyone who didn’t vote for who you did is stupid?
“One of the stories I read on this earlier said the head of elections in Palm Beach is a democrat And it says they sent out test samples of the ballots before the elections, and noone said anything about them then.”
You know… no one is accusing an ‘Evil plot’ with the ballot… and it matters not whether a Democrat or Republican approved it, they obviously made a mistake. Also… how many voters see a ballot before they step into the voting booth? Yeah it may have been posted somewhere… but how many actually looked at it?
“I don't see why these morons should be able to vote again? If they get to then the whole nation should be able to.”
They shouldn’t. You can’t do that. It is unfortunate, and maybe even unjust… but I don’t think they should be allowed to revote. Calling people morons because they were confused is pretty damn ignorant though. Ideally, you’d like to believe that the person meant to vote for is the person who gets your vote… but obviously that doesn’t always happen.
“No matter how the Dem's try to spin this, the simple fact remains: The ballot is clear about where to punch for your chosen candidate.”
This is downright silly thing to say when you know 19,000+ votes were already thrown out! And yes, I’m sure some of ‘em were Republicans trying to vote for Cheney as VP.
Bottom line is… you have to go by the law… and there are no provisions for people being confused with the ballot. No do-overs . Voting is important, they should have asked someone if they were confused. It is really a shame though… The margin of error of the machines counting the votes is probably greater than the final margin will be. I personally think it doesn’t much matter who wins now… ½ the population is going to be pretty upset and see everything they do as negative. It will forever be a black mark on our history, Rep, Dem or other. The supposed world leader in Democracy can't hold even an election now without controversy.
[This message has been edited by Paxil (edited 11-09-2000).]
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Well you have a point Nash, a lot of those Buchannan *probably* were meant for Gore.
It is unfortunate that those people mis-voted but at this point, anything done to rectify the problem would be far worse. Theres no way of knowing how many people made mistakes on their ballot, and even if you did know, it's not fair to let them re-vote unless the entire country gets to do it too.
Anything other than letting the votes stand as they are smacks of changing the rules while you're still playing the game.
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The non-voters got it right. Voting is over-rated.
It's obvious that, with the Electoral College, a single vote doesn't matter--hell, 200,000 don't matter (I don't like Gore much, but he DID win the popular vote).
Also, the Non-voters are completely satisfied with the design of the Florida ballot. Only voters are whining.
Heck, most non-voters would probably be happy if their government didn't even allow people to vote at all! Now THAT is an easy group to please!
THAT, AND THE CHOICES SUCK!! Bush is unworthy, Buchannan is a borderline Fascist, Gore is a blatant liar (and to think I used to like Gore), and Nader is....well....unsafe at any speed (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Why can't they clone Lincoln? Or Teddy Roosevelt.....yeah, clone Teddy! We need a good war or two!
I voted for some guy whose name I had never seen before and will probabaly never see again--just to spite the "main" candidates. I felt like it was a waste of my time.
J_A_B
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Obviously there is no fraud here by anybody.
Now that that's off my back, here is what appears to have happened:
There was a lot of pressure to vote quickly because of the high turnout and a lot of people didn't take enough time. They looked Bush, then one down saw Gore and since he was the 2nd listing they punched the 2nd hole. Palm Beach is VERY heavily Democratic and given Bush's simpler place on the ballot (See Bush at top, punch top hole) Gore would pick up at least 2/3rds of the miscasts (I'm being VERY generous to Bush here) and would win by about 13,000 votes.
Here is one man's account:
Ronald Kessler, a recently retired dentist from Delray Beach, said his vote proved the ballot confusion spanned age groups and political parties.
A registered Republican who doesn't qualify as a senior citizen, Kessler said he's certain he mistakenly voted for Buchanan even though he intended to cast a crossover vote for Gore. Kessler said he never even saw Buchanan's name when he zeroed in on the circle he thought meant a vote for Gore.
"They should have a new vote," said Kessler, who realized his error after talking to his wife after voting. "I feel that people were misled by the ballot. I usually don't make mistakes like that. Buchanan never would have been my choice. He is diametrically opposed to everything I believe in."
That said, I don't think there can be a revote. It would set a VERY bad precedent. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.
If Bush does win though, he will unfortunately be in the position of having been placed in Office despite losing the popular vote and only winning in Florida because of a poorly designed ballot. He will lack even the small validation that would come from a clean win in the Electoral College.
While this IS very interesting to watch, I wish that either Bush or Gore had won outright. I think it would have been much better for our country.
Peace
Sisu
-Karnak
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<gets pop corn and beer>
I am watching history being made here.
That's quite cool. Not up there with the fall of the Wall in Berlin, but sorta cool envertheless.
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
If I am understanding this correctly, he died while campaigning. Then afterwards, he won the election.
Voting for a dead guy.
This one goes to the book of "Stupid Laws Around The World". :D
That's beyond stupid. It's...BISHROOK!
Here, if ya die, yer outta politics. Yer party finds a replacement. And it ain't gonna be your wife, unless she's the best candidate.
Pretty easy solution. Sort of like "if you're dead, you ain't got a place as a forward in Barcelona. And if you held the place and died, your wife ain't getting it."
Hey, can I vote for Elvis? :D.
--
StSanta
while(!bishRookQueue.isEmpty() && loggedOn()){
30mmDeathDIEDIEDIE(bishRookQueue.removeFront());
System.out.println("LW pilots are superior");
myPlane.performVictoryRoll();
}
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I keep hearing how Gore won the popular vote but all the votes are not in and with the absentee votes from the military it is very possible that Bush could win.
The recount is done and Bush still won. When the absentee votes are counted Bush will still win. Let's let this end and get ready for a new President.
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StSanta
How does the average democrat in Palm Beach that CNN is interviewing appear from the other side of the big pond? They appear pretty ignorant to me. It is an embarrassment. You have to believe me when I tell you they are not an accurate representation of the average Florida citizen. The media is assisting the Jesse Jacksons' by giving the crowds the attention they are looking for. Have to love the professional manner the Democrats are conducting themselves by. Typical.
Eagler
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This quote from Ronald Kessler sorta goes to the title of the original post. This man is a prime example of ignorance in action. The quote from the story that hits me the hardest "Kessler said he never even saw Buchanan's name when he zeroed in on the circle he thought meant a vote for Gore."
A) Mr. Buchanan's name is clearly printed on the ballot. Mr. Kessler chose not to see it.
B) "he thought meant a vote for Gore". The circle for Mr. Gore is clearly connected from Mr. Gore's name to the circle intended for Mr. Gore. The key words are "he thought". Plain and simple, he thought wrong; whether he did not take the time to read the ballot or did not ask if he was confused. He voted wrong and there is nobody but himself to blame for that. I could care less what his "will" was; he executed his will incorrectly.
First of all, I don't live in Palm Beach county and my ballot was not a punchout ballot.
When I sat down to vote, I had to take a lot of time reading the ballot. "Vote for no more than two". "Vote for no more than four". "Vote for no more than one". I had to make sure that the catagories did not continue to the next column. I wanted to make sure my vote was correct the first time. (Our ballots are the kind where you use a felt-tip pen to connect the arrow).
Any opinion I have on the subject is based only on the link in the first post. The link shows a sample of the ballot used in Palm Beach county.
Being unfamiliar with the ballot until I went to the link, I have no problem understanding what to do. I don't care if the hole does not line up with the names on the left. The arrow pointing from the candidate's name to the proper hole to punch is incredibly clear.
If a person was confused by the ballot and did not ask questions, that is their fault. If they sped through the ballot without looking closely, that's their problem. If they double-voted, that's their problem. They either voted for the wrong person, or they gave an invalid ballot.
The responsibility for their ignorance is their own to take. Rather than take responsibility for voting incorrect/invalid, they would rather complain about it. Blaming the ballot for their own ignorance, confusion, and inability to ask for clarification on something as important as voting is just passing the buck, something that this country does quite nicely (it disgusts me).
The best part about any comments that I have made pertaining to the whole Palm Beach issue is that if Mr. Gore wins, my feelings about Palm Beach will not change.
Fury
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I heard today about how some ballot papers were spoiled by the paper not having the whole punched properly. There's also pictures of an unopened ballot box (No. 248).
The difference is now down to 300 votes - considering the number of votes cast, to be confident of such a difference is not possible considering the error involved in counting.
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Bush just needs to sit back and say nothing while Gore and the DNC along with their attorneys hang themselves.
In addition to those of you who believe Gore should be President....before you claim a Raw vote victory as well as an Electoral victory, lets count ALL the votes please.
I put my money on the fact that Bush will concede defeat with some character, rather than whine about an unfair election....at least I hope so...it is evident that the Democrats will continue to the tune of the likes of Jessie Jackson and Daley, unwilling to accept anything other than their own selfish ambitions.
I'm Out!
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Originally posted by Ice:
Bush just needs to sit back and say nothing while Gore and the DNC along with their attorneys hang themselves.
In addition to those of you who believe Gore should be President....before you claim a Raw vote victory as well as an Electoral victory, lets count ALL the votes please.
I put my money on the fact that Bush will concede defeat with some character, rather than whine about an unfair election....at least I hope so...it is evident that the Democrats will continue to the tune of the likes of Jessie Jackson and Daley, unwilling to accept anything other than their own selfish ambitions.
I'm Out!
Right On ICE !!!!
Eagler