Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hristo on August 30, 2001, 06:58:00 AM
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Too many heads are burried in the sand ;)
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My old computer doesnt have a chance with IL2! On the other hand, AH is still cranking along at 28-38 fps.
Y
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My question is, why is it so ok to discuss IL-2 here and not Warbirds?
Hypocrits :D
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I think alot of folks view it like myself...its a box game, I haven't bought a box game for over 2 years (Exception: CFS2) since most in the past were over hyped and didn't deliver...so, with that being said, I'm looking forward to this AI-boxed sim. Its not a MMOG contender at this point.
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Come on guys, you are too polite ;). I expected a lot of harsh language here.
AI in Il-2 is fantastic. Those P-39 do lob those 37mm like crazy.
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Originally posted by Maniac:
My question is, why is it so ok to discuss IL-2 here and not Warbirds?
Hypocrits :D
For the same reason its not ok to discuss AH on AGW!
Burn the Witch!! :D
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And now a question for Hristo......
What exactly is your point by posting this here and posting it now given all the emotional debate regarding this subject lately?
There are some serious axes to grind by some it seems.
Not sure when the "game" and "fun" and "fly what you like and fly them all" parts ever got lost on this crowd (including you Hristo).
Cobra
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I believe a few in the WB community knew this game and its developers were a type of 'threat' from the get go...natural human behavior (Especially in the American culture) to put down things that are better than what you have personally.
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WWIIOL is a huge threat, now so is IL2. The competition from the most massive online WWII game ever was enough, and now a boxed sim too?! Holy...when they release FalconV, HTC will collapse.
Unless...
Maybe this is more mindless drivel from Bistro, part of a small few who seem to actually WANT AH to not be the best flight sim they can't pull themselves away from.
With any hope of a better sim and they prematurley toejam themselves, ranting about it and putting down AH before they even have a shipped copy. Same with WBSIII, WWIIOL, now IL2. There will certainly be more too.
How hard would it be to have a thread about IL2, (there are several without starting this screaming for attension) point out things you like, and discuss it?
Without a doubt, you are one big snivelling tard Bistro.
Now back to hanging on ever broken English word Oleg posts in the AH forums for you boy.
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[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: Creamo ]
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Hmm, 6 il-2 topcs..This is like were comparing Oranges and apples. Both are fruits, yet they have very different flavours and important vitamines.
I hope that someday we have all vitamines in same package, but il-2 isnt there, neither AH.
wwiionline was promised to have them all, but didnt.
This is little rude to HTC team also. Awarness has been achieved, lets move to simHQ bb if we want to discuss more. After all these products compete with eachothers, x amount of potential customers will be lost.
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Creamo, how well do you speak and write Russian?
Rip,
IL2 is indeed a boxed game and boxed games are mostly crap online and not a threat to the likes of AH and WB.
Until the Ubisoft servers are up and running there is really no way to know what threat, if any, IL2 will offer AH or WB.
I certainly agree with your statement that its not a MMOG contender at this point.
There is a core group that will not play unless the arena has capability to house hundreds no matter how few of those hundreds are in their screen.
Those will be AH and WB forever no matter how good anything else is.
There is another group that will immediately bolt from AH or WB if they can get solid online performance with 10 or more in the screen.
I hope IL2 will work well online with the numbers Maddox projects and if it does I may not do AH.
Not because AH is not good but because IL2 better meets my simming criteria.
With the advances in technology it is inevitable that boxed sim online performance will catch up to online only sims and IL2 may be the first wake-up call.
All this my sim/your sim was old as soon as there were two available and will never go away....too bad, we should just play the one that suits us best and wish the others much success.
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Agree Sun, choice is always good, especially when its 'off the beaten path'...I for one will have a MMOG online IL2 account if/when it comes, I can think of nothing better than trying to decide if I want to play AH tonight or IL2. Was hoping that for WW2 Online, but its just not quite there yet for me.
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I just want to know why the AcesHigh IL2 is made of Oragami versus all the stuff I've read about this "a-10" of WW2 and was really looking forward to flying it in the Main Arena. Frankly, I shoot down more Spitfires than tanks in the IL2 :( I find it amazing that M3s and shooting me down on a regular basis...nevermind the Osties and M-16s that also just tear me apart. If its got armor, I'm flying a defective model.
Maybe its just me, but am I the only one finding that our IL2 isnt nearly the "tank of the air" i was expecting?
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The different is:
IL-2 is more and more realistically as AH!
In all Points.
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More i fiddle with the demo the more i realise its a A2G sim. IL2..should have been a dead give away ;)
AH and IL2 are in now way comparable. Il2 will never have the plane selection, view system, frequent updates, customer service,flight model, yada yada yada
Lets punt these threads up in a year or so and see where il2 is then ;)
And I dont hate il2. I think its a fun boxed sim and I plan to buy a copy.
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not in all aspects Possi, the FM is a little wired and so is the bullet hits. I got within 10 yards of a plane and had most of my bullets go right through him, even if they were spot on.
I am not a fanboy. I will probably get Il-2 cause I like flight sims in general. I like AH cause it is a MMPOG.
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Hristo, I think for the same reason I have almost no interest in the Western Front, or the War in the Pacific. People play what interests them.
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Considering that Il2 not just beta, but quite and old build (April?) that was disclosed accidentally, it is premature to compare missing features and bugs.
No bullet drop is a missing feature (I hope so), bullet flying through is a bug.
Neither can be faulted.
Dirty windows, suspicious roll rates and similar implemented features are the only ones deserving discussion.
IL2 will be sold at $40. The developers will be lucky to receive $10 per box sold. It may be a lot of money still, but it will pay for the game developed and some bug fixes within a year, not for ongoing development and maintenence of the on-line servers.
Even discarding 32 plane limit, will anybody be able to provide good service for free or for $10/months?
Il2 may be a great game, but it does not mean that it will be a viable on-line choice in a year or so when the novelty wears off.
So I will buy one myself, even if it has no bullet drop and ridiculous FM - I shoot too close to matter and have no experience in real WW2 fighters loaded with armor, ammo and armament for difference to break my suspencion of disbelief.
But it is not even advertised as on-line game - but as a boxed game with connectivity option.
miko
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Correct on those points Miko2d but add in to the list of major pieces missing from IL2's "April version" that the "FM drag module above 170-180 km/h not being present in the demo."
Which still just makes me chuckle at these yokels who explain in such passion just how REAL and how much it FEELS so much like flying IL2 is. And how superior the FM is too all existing sims.
Westy
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Il-2 has everything I expected of a sim. AH approach was - no, we can't model this, no we can't model that.
Oleg and his team delivered what HTC made us thought to be impossible. A full historical sim with so far unseen dedication to detail.
Oleg and team showed these big boys how it is done.
Historical cockpits, improved gunnery with realistic ammo mixes, weather effects, incredible damage model and immersion AH never could even dream of having.
One should be retarded as Creamo not to recognize that Il-2 is by far better sim than AH (read the thread title).
Compalining about demo FM ? Even like this it feels great. Do not forget you were paying for a pre 1.03 FM in this sim.
I almost feel like cheated because I played AH for so long. Impossible to do better cockpits, impossible to model different rounds, no HA for almost two years, no metric system, ultra simplistic engine management. Hell, how wouldn't I come here and rub it again and again ?
And this amazinhunk Creamo dares to whine about Oleg's English ? How is your Russian, tard ?
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Hey Hristo... I'm sure that HTC could model something above and beyond IL-2.
Why? How many planes are in IL-2 that you can _FLY_? How many planes are in AH thaty ou can _FLY_?
AH focuses on much much more of the war than IL-2.
End of story, it's easier to make something extremely detailed when you pick a small segment to work on.
What's IL-2's system requirements? What are AHs?
Sorry Hristo, but just because you LuftWaffles finally found a game where your planes perform much better than they did you believe it's so much superior.
Well whatever, you think those developers will be able to stick around well after Il-2 is done selling? They don't have a monthly income from customers like HTC.
I fail to see your logic behind how Il-2 will even nudge WB or AH in any department except eye candy.
And eye candy???? Sorry, that's like taking a rice burner and putting a body kit on it. Looks nice to some, looks like bellybutton to others.
-SW
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Originally posted by SWulfe:
Hey Hristo... I'm sure that HTC could model something above and beyond IL-2.
Why? How many planes are in IL-2 that you can _FLY_? How many planes are in AH thaty ou can _FLY_?
AH focuses on much much more of the war than IL-2.
End of story, it's easier to make something extremely detailed when you pick a small segment to work on.
In demo you can fly 3 planes. Just as in AH beta in October 1999. Number of flyable planes will be much higher. Il-2 covers EF from 1941-42 to 1945 in Berlin.
What's IL-2's system requirements? What are AHs?
Excuses. Il-2 runs great on my Duron 800 + GeForce 2MX. Don't tell me it is a high end.
My income is 10 times less than of average American and I can still aford it.
Or you like playing Tetris on 386 ? What were AH requirements in Oct 1999 ?
Sorry Hristo, but just because you LuftWaffles finally found a game where your planes perform much better than they did you believe it's so much superior.
How do you know how they performed ? Have you flown them ?
You are full of it. According to Oleg, 190 will not be as good as in other sims. You should see TsAGI charts on Soviet planes. Scary !
Well whatever, you think those developers will be able to stick around well after Il-2 is done selling? They don't have a monthly income from customers like HTC.
Good for HTC. But I hope Il-2 team will make an onloine sim.
I fail to see your logic behind how Il-2 will even nudge WB or AH in any department except eye candy.
And eye candy???? Sorry, that's like taking a rice burner and putting a body kit on it. Looks nice to some, looks like bellybutton to others.
-SW
Engine management ain't eye candy. Gunnery ain't eye candy. Damage model ain't eye candy.
[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: Hristo ]
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Yes, well if Il-2 builds a MMP setup you'll find out just exactly how poorly your Duron 800 will run it. You think it will run it great, but you've got another thing coming when you've got a large battle going on.
You are now comparing how many planes that thing has now to how many AH had 2 years ago. Whatever works for you, right? I meant how many flyable aircraft will they have at release? Not modifications like 109G6/R2 109G6/R6, I mean like 109G2, 109G6, 190A5, La5FN, La7 etc.
"Damage model ain't eye candy." Yes it is. Those little skin damage decals are called "eye candy".
"Gunnery ain't eye candy" No it isn't. Nor is it working properly in the beta version you are playing.
My system is a C466+ V5 5500. I get excellent frame rates in AH.
Of course, I'm not the one comparing Il-2 to AH nor am I saying "this game will rule over this game!"
Just ain't gonna happen, Il-2 will be a sideline game to AH. We heard the same thing about WWIIOl..........
I'm going to buy Il-2, but I'm not acting like a prissy little girl trying to piss everyone off who's happy playing AH that "this is better".
Why don't you just head on over to the Il-2 boards and spend your time convincing them and yourself it's superior.
I know which product is better, and it happens to be the product that this message board represents.
-SW
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Ah ha Bistro, hitting your tweak button is so easy. Squirt some more tears for your hero Oleg and that great demo if you can't understand why it's so pointless to start all these threads. "Hristo's take on IL2, and kissing Oleg's ass, by Hristo." You sound like Bob Dole with all that 1st person stuff.
Do I speak Russian? Good lord, what for. English, and Tardbonics to interpret most posts.
I also dabble in a little Filipino, but that's not got much to do with how well I speak it.
A teacher asks:
- Vovochka, who is your father?
- Comrade Stalin.
- Well, who is your mother?
- Our Soviet motherland.
- And what do you want to be?
- An orphan....
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[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: Creamo ]
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To answer the original question:
Because AH is a successful and proven online multiplayer game, with constant upgrades and improvements, while IL-2 is an early demo with all the promise of WWIIOnline.
I'll probably buy it, but it'll never get the same play time as AH on my machine.
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What's IL-2's system requirements? What are AHs?
I always found the "system requirement" argument to be the weakest every time one of these debates gets fired up.
In AW, there are players who would still fly in 2-D on P100 machines with 8 megs of RAM and tell you they are satisfied. True, they are happy with what they have. Is it anything near what could really be concidered a sim by today's standards? Of course not.
The truth of the matter is, if a sim is not pushing the limits of technology (and visversa) then you (the loyal customer) are left behind. A dev who does not encourage current platforms will find his product eventually outdated.
Look at it this way, in a year or two we will be seeing 4 gig PC's with great capabilities. To tell me "oh, such-and-such sim is still the best and it runs on a P100" is beyond redicule. It goes beyond eye candy at some point.....you start talking about immersion and realism on a new scale.
I'm not saying IL-2 will set any new standards or even in itself raise the bar.....but that bar will be raised. Do you really think AH will be able to compete w/o ever raising it's reqs?
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ThirdUp, what you described is the key ingredient for failure in a massively multi-player market.
You think it's a fluke that iEN will keep WB2.xx running alongside WBIII when WBIII is in full production? No, hardly.
Fact of the matter is, as systems become faster and the 'average' expected system becomes better AH's technology will too.
Unless of course you haven't been paying attention to the AH DX8 betas they have been pushing out, then you would understand that AH isn't stagnant with it's graphics or audio. Both will be upgraded as the 'standards' bar is raised with faster processors.
I'm not using the system requirements as any kind of argument. I'm using it to show you what the average computer user could play with. The average computer user (and neophyte computer users who bought 500mhz machines in the past year) can still play AH... they would be suffering with Il-2.
This equates to more customers. They will be educated and buy faster systems as is required.
And to top it all off: the WinterWolf engine that is driving those pretty graphics of Il-2 isn't even Il-2's engine. It's being licensed to them. HTC wrote their own graphics engine, and I'm willing to bet that they added the ability for expandability. In case no one has seen the latest models from HTC, they are fantastic and on par with Il-2.
-SW
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Well, I agree in theory. In mass multi-play, you want as many people as you can get (hense the name). I may have taken your coment out of context. I have heard the "so-and-so game works just fine with my old computer" so many times these days...."why can't stupid-new-game-xxxx play on my system?"
My point was that you reach a time that upgrades do have to take place (ie: the 2-D boys in AW) if you want to keep up in the industry. AW could have catered to the masses (who at the time the majority owned only 2-D cards) but decided to press on the the next generation. There were crys and whines about it, but it was needed to compete with the technology trends.
I recognize that AH is going to maintain a current status (DirX8). And at some point, HTC will decide to push it up a notch. There are always people who have not made a computer purchase in 5 years...who won't want to....and those are the people who will complain. I think you and I are on the same page here, so it's mute.
But even comparing IL-2 to AH reqs is still unfair (again, I see we are on the same page here I think). One is a 30 meg online game, the other is much larger...designed to be played against AI. Certainly the specs are going to be higher. Add in the graphics (be they for immersion or just eye candy) and of course IL-2 will require more. By nature, any box game is designed to depend on things within to generate it's appeal. Where a game like AH depends more on the interaction of other players to be entertaining.
I agree that bigger is not always better. But the problem still falls with the push between software and hardware advances. The sad thing is that we could reach a point where you simply can't play a new game on a machine that is more than six months old. The kicker is, when some new technology (like 3-D, etc) brings gaming into a new generation. I sure as hell don't want to buy a new machine every six months, but I do recognize that I might have to if I wanted to play certain games as they release (hey, I can't really afford to build every six monts...just making the point). But to tell the truth, I *want* to see something so new and amazing come out that so inspires me to upgrade every so often. :)
It still boils down to the fact that a year from now 4 gig cpu's will be out. How can a 500 PIII compete with that if the games take advantage of of the new technologies?
[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: Thirdup ]
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In case no one has seen the latest models from HTC, they are fantastic and on par with Il-2.
Any one else find this funny? :D
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Originally posted by Creamo:
A teacher asks:
- Vovochka, who is your father?
- Comrade Stalin.
- Well, who is your mother?
- Our Soviet motherland.
- And what do you want to be?
- An orphan....
--
[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: Creamo ]
LOL
Stop comparing those games. Give it time, then cry and wieennnee.
For boxed sim, it will have no contendors. For online sim, Oleg will not be abile to produce same quality for a long time. It took 2 years to build it. How long did it took HTC to produce this sim. HTC is constant evolving process unlike IL-2. Once bugges worked out and no one buys it, it will die.
Lets just make best of this, ask Oleg and his team to work for HTC :)
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We are in complete agreement ThirdUp.
The comment about system requirements wasn't neccesarily to compare AH and Il-2 but to give an idea of what is required of the masses to get them into a massive environment.
Now granted, when/if the Maddox Team makes a MMP version of Il-2, I'd be willing to wager that 1Ghz CPUs will be the norm simply because it will take him some time to create MMP code and a server and all that stuff that accompanies a MMP services.
So basically in the end Il-2 will be quite a nice boxed game and be a good break for the occasional small game, but Aces High is where my buddies and targets are and so far it's proven to be great at what it's intended to do.
I'm on the verge of a system upgrade anyway, and will probably have a 1.4Ghz <drool> within the next few weeks.
Anyways, that's it for me and this thread. I really have nothing more to contribute or to further more degrade it, so I'll see some of you in AH's skies.. and the rest I won't care about. ;)
S! ThirdUp
-SW
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"I'm not saying IL-2 will set any new standards or even in itself raise the bar.....but that bar will be raised. Do you really think AH will be able to compete w/o ever raising it's reqs?"
IMO, IL2 WILL (and is) raising the bar, just as EAW did three years ago. So is WB III. As new methods and programming improve what we do and see folks will incorporate it as they always have. Hristo is just naive in thinking IL2 is the second coming and nothing like it has ever come along and had the impact he thinks it will. (obligatory tweak at Twisto)
And HTC will need to keep AH competative and to be honest they have raised specs as they've gone along. HTC has added many features to *MMPOG* that no one has before. Terrain builder/editor, clouds, mannable fleets CV's, amphibs. And still kept the specs incredibly low in comparison to what FA III, WB IIII and WW2O demand. And will probably with the beta version being tested out when fully released.
IL2 is first and foremost a box sim and is there fore not in the same league or category as any MMPOg is. And for Oleg or BlueByte to even mention not having MMP in the future would ruin some sales. So it wil lalways remaind "maybe" "we hope to add it" and "it's a possibility"
Westy
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Originally posted by Hristo:
Il-2 has everything I expected of a sim. AH approach was - no, we can't model this, no we can't model that.
Oleg and his team delivered what HTC made us thought to be impossible. A full historical sim with so far unseen dedication to detail.
Oleg and team showed these big boys how it is done.
Historical cockpits, improved gunnery with realistic ammo mixes, weather effects, incredible damage model and immersion AH never could even dream of having.
One should be retarded as Creamo not to recognize that Il-2 is by far better sim than AH (read the thread title).
Compalining about demo FM ? Even like this it feels great. Do not forget you were paying for a pre 1.03 FM in this sim.
I almost feel like cheated because I played AH for so long. Impossible to do better cockpits, impossible to model different rounds, no HA for almost two years, no metric system, ultra simplistic engine management. Hell, how wouldn't I come here and rub it again and again ?
And this amazinhunk Creamo dares to whine about Oleg's English ? How is your Russian, tard ?
Man, I don't know about anyone else, but Hristo completely convinced me. As a matter of fact, I am uninstalling this POS game AH from my HD as I type this.
Can't you guys see that Il-2 will revolutionize everything!!!! In three years, I bet we will all be using Il-2 to make toast and do our taxes for us using TSAGI charts. Il-2 will be the dessert topping and floor wax of the future! I will lose my job as a teacher because Il-2 will teach the kids for me! Il-2 will replace plastic as the greatest invention by man in the last 100 years. Il-2 will indeed be the better mouse trap that everyone has been searching for.
Why can't you guys see the light? AH was good, for the 3 seconds it took for me to realize that the 109 was modelled wrong. I mean, come on, a Zeke can actually turn inside it? A Jug can outdive it? Its cannons are not as good as the hispanos? Yeah, right. :rolleyes: You guys are just dense and are scared of the future. Il-2 will revolutionize the world! First, it was the Beatles, now comes Oleg the magic ex-communist game programmer!! Il-2 WILL replace the US Constitution, Magna Carta, and the "Where's Waldo" books as the greatest written documents ever created by man. Catholicism? Judaism? Islam? Hindu? Buddha? All pretenders to the throne that will be held by Il-2. God (or whatever your selected higher deity is known as) WISHES he/she/it was Oleg Maddox!!!!
-math
p.s. I honestly can't wait for Il-2 to come out. Then maybe those of us that actually like AH can get some peace of mind knowing that the little lemmings will be off chasing yet another unicorn in hopes of catching the "greatest" sim ever. BTW, I have the greatest sim ever on my HD still, and yes, it is AH. Why? Is it because it is the most realistic and best looking sim? No, I think most can agree that other sims look better. I also think we can all agree that there are things about AH that aren't realistic (whatever that loaded words truly means). Why do I think it is the greatest? Simpl, I get more enjoyment from an hour of AH than I ever did from an hour of ANY boxed sim. Simple as that.
[ 08-31-2001: Message edited by: Mathman ]
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S!
SWulfe claiming there won't be too many flyable planes. Well..In IL-2 those planes that can be made flyable are already included in the game with complete FM/DM etc. The part they are missing at the moment are the cockpits. For example..We have as flyable Bf109G-2 with subvariants like R-6,R-3 etc. Fw190A-4 will be in final release. People are working on 3rd party add-on planes and cockpits on full steam. Is it because Your precious P47 or P51, not to forget Spitfire, ain't included? A sim without these ain't a sim? ;) FYI Hawker Hurricane for example is under works among others, so there will be a plenty of planes around release and after it. And even the MP won't be MMPOG as in AH, I feel 16 vs 16 is quite a fight.
And true AH is MMPOG, but where do You seriously see more than maybe 10-15 planes, even the log shows 90 player or more online?Wasn't there a restriction AH drawing only 32 planes/vehicles in same area and the rest was displayed as dots? And in my experience more than 10-15 planes in same area + smoke etc. causes a significant drop in FPS and drastically more warping and lag. MMPOG in numbers but not in visuals.
I don't bash AH here, it is a good game as it is and evolving. But don't blame a game restricted because it offers only a 32 player dogfight, since You can't get more in reality in AH either without playability and other things suffering. Or do You guys enjoy playing a slideshow with starships warping all over the place? ;)My 2 cents. Flamers don't bother, I couldn't care less of Your halfarsed comments ;) :D
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64 planes are the limit.
Last night, and the past few times I've logged on, there have been 40+ person furballs.
You can't get that with Il-2.
I have no idea what you are talking about "slide show" and "warping"... I never see either, except for players who have bad connections... in which case it's only them and it's their end not HTC.
But to each their own, if you like Il-2 and want to promote it. Do so on their own board.
A lot of your comments seem to come from a low end system and from being across the ocean.
Playing from the states is great, very little to no warping and for the low frame-rate... I maintain a steady 20fps in furballs around a field with smoke on my C466.
-SW
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Of course IL-2 is better than AH, it's from Europe and we all know they do everything better than us dumb Yanks :)
Eye candy now, I'm sure I'll buy it just like I have every other WWII air combat box sim and I'm sure it'll be sitting on the desk or on ebay while I still fly AcesHigh within 90 days :)
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I see alot of "cannots and will not be able too's" as far as IL2 goes.
;) wait untill they see whats in store for the future.
Have a feeling that they are about to eat their words ;)
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Originally posted by highflyer:
I see alot of "cannots and will not be able too's" as far as IL2 goes.
;) wait untill they see whats in store for the future.
Have a feeling that they are about to eat their words ;)
Okay, I'm convinced this is the same guy that was saying this same thing when WW2 Online was about to hit the shelves..haven't seen him since...odd ;)
Actually, I think Olegs game is going to be the best Boxed sim we've seen in along time. Hopefully, it will be a MMOG someday, I'd love to have accounts to both AH and IL2.
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What we have is a few individuals peeing in HTCs sandbox and saying how much better one game is over the other.
It's a lot easier to get points across by sticking to how good IL2 is without all the peeing.
I always though B17-II was the greatest thing since sliced bread.
[ 08-31-2001: Message edited by: Fury ]
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Originally posted by Hristo:
AH approach was - no, we can't model this, no we can't model that.
Do you realize the difference between not being capable of producing some feature due to stupidity and/or incompetence and/or lazyness of the programmer(s) and not yet getting to implementing some feature because of time constraints and limited resources.
Which brings me to the most stupid statement on your part so far:
Oleg and team showed these big boys how it is done
So you think that company of six people quite busy running successfull operation and doing development at the same time, only one of them actually programming (HT) qualifies as "big boys"?
I saw references to multiple programmers on Oleg's team working for three years and not busy with maintenence and support.
HTC made quite a good progress since it announced the AH game and will do more. It is quite possibly that some company with a lot of cash (or cheap programming labor) can defeat them by brute force. But it would not be their fault.
So the only issues reamain a few points where there was concious decision to do some feature in one way or the other that does not greatly affect realizm in the opinion of creators. On those people can disagree with no hope of reconciliation.
For instance:
I am against historical cockpits. Besides view limitation, historical cockpit is only good if I am made to fly historically - few months/years in the the SAME plane.
I do not fly like that. I switch planes and I think that a situation where pilot has to search for a compass in his cockpit is highly un-historical.
I am a metric system man, but I dislike having both metric and US system as long as there is an AHISTORICAL chance of having both kinds of plane on the same side in the war.
Ammo counters I concede.
Ammo types? They will probably be there eventually. I would rather have HTC concentrate their limited resources on trains and DX8 then ammo types for now.
Engine management? AH was more advanced then WB and will probably get better in that respect eventually.
When it comes to dedication to detail/authenticity, your ravings are child's talk compared to ultra-serious discussions/things done by communities that fly/expand the games like F2, EAW, Fighter Squadron and few others. What is common about those games - they are all boxed games with connectivity, not on-line games.
I bet that when IL2 comes out you will easily find 16-32 other people in the world willing to fly EXACTLY the way you want few hours every weekend.
Not so with 24x7 arena of 100+. So stop comparing apples and oranges. Many of the AH people play more advanced stuff and will play IL2 as well.
Just do not call Il2 an on-line game yet.
miko
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Originally posted by DB603:
...where do You seriously see more than maybe 10-15 planes, even the log shows 90 player or more online?Wasn't there a restriction AH drawing only 32 planes/vehicles in same area and the rest was displayed as dots?
I may be fighting in a furball with 32 planes and 20 dots, but I know that I am distracting enemy attention from a low-level 15-jabo strike in the different place of the map, a 10+ bombing raid on the strategic target plus more people flying, sailing and driving towards the same purpose - with as much coordination as we want.
In WB we had Joint Purple Command nights (secretely organised and planned for a week), when 60+ purples would sweep the map against 200+ of the rest of the enemies - with 12-15 squadrons performing multiple carefully coordinated sorties of all kinds. How would you do that in Il2?
miko
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This is so obvious, I can't believe I have to say it.
Framerate you bumbles!!!
Dale could produce to the sky if he didn't have to consider framerate, and of course, having fun. Let's just wait and see how internet friendly this il2 work of art really is. I think it will fall on its face in the area of framerate.
The Realism contingent now has a place to play....so go play will ya and leave the rest of us simpletons alone. :)
Oh, and Hristo...hard for me to listen to your propaganda when you don't compete where it counts :D
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And just where is that, tard ?
I have yet to see a warp in Il-2.
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Originally posted by Cobra:
Not sure when the "game" and "fun" and "fly what you like and fly them all" parts ever got lost on this crowd
Cobra
Here, here! I probably buy one or two games a month - usually after a lot of reading, so I enjoy most of them - some for a little while, and others for months or even years.
What I've found is that games in the same genre can be completely different, and yet both of them can be a helluva good time - sure, they all have weaknesses, but they all have strengths too - and that is what makes them original and fun.
It shouldn't be about what is 'right' so much as it should be about what is FUN
or somethin' like that... ;)
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Due to my recent "vacation" to the happy place where I received wonderfully refreshing electro-shock therapy,I have no idea what IL2 is.Could somone please take a minute to tell me.
Sorry for being so ignorant but I am from Yorkshire.
Tozza
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Tozza if you have cable download it. If not download it anyway :D
Pics: http://koti.mbnet.fi/staga/il2/ (http://koti.mbnet.fi/staga/il2/)
Demo: http://www.fileplanet.com/index.asp?scope=0§ion=0&submit.x=25&submit.y=3&file=63881 (http://www.fileplanet.com/index.asp?scope=0§ion=0&submit.x=25&submit.y=3&file=63881)
If link won't work go to www.fileplanet.com (http://www.fileplanet.com) and search Il-2
[ 08-31-2001: Message edited by: Staga ]
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Why can't you guys see the light? AH was good, for the 3 seconds it took for me to realize that the 109 was modelled wrong. I mean, come on, a Zeke can actually turn inside it?
my god man do you even know what your talking abought ????
A Jug can outdive it?
iv read books ... by p47 pilots that said the 109 could not run away by diving
if need a list ill have to go find the right one but is a couple of pilots said that in there books .that a 109 could not out run a 109 in a dive. i beleave some ok zemkies boys .
Its cannons are not as good as the hispanos? Yeah, right. You guys are just dense and are scared of the future.
this makes me wonder why you even said it ??? gezzzzzzz
Il-2 will revolutionize the world! First, it was the Beatles, now comes Oleg the magic ex-communist game programmer!! Il-2 WILL replace the US Constitution, Magna Carta, and the "Where's Waldo" books as the greatest written documents ever created by man. Catholicism? Judaism? Islam? Hindu? Buddha? All pretenders to the throne that will be held by Il-2. God (or whatever your selected higher deity is known as) WISHES he/she/it was Oleg Maddox!!!!
this all above ^ gezzz all this tells
me is eather you got stock in it ...or...
you have no life to speak of.
all this were my first thoughts ...but
you just love the attention.. in reality
ya just got your one and only rise outta
me ......ENJOY <<<<<<<<
>>>> sips drink moves on<<<<<
[ 08-31-2001: Message edited by: DRILL ]
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Somehow I get a feeling you haven't tried it, Drill.
Try it before bashing it:
http://coolaero.altajeux.com/utils/il_2/il2_demo.zip (http://coolaero.altajeux.com/utils/il_2/il2_demo.zip)
[ 08-31-2001: Message edited by: Hristo ]
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Name calling?
What a guy!
So Hristo...tell me how many planes are online at once that you have been seeing?
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S!
Oh yes..because we are from Europe we have low end machines and crappy net connections.There's nothing like the Holy USofA ;)Streets are of gold, everything is perfect in the neat suburbs and every1 has high end machines with screamingly fast net connections ;)
My system is more than adequate(1.4GHz AMD)to run AH and the ADSL(512Kbs) should do the trick providing acceptable ping.Still I see a lot of warping especially when a lot of planes/vehicles are in the same area with smoke etc.You simply don't get very high FPS then, even on higher end computer.Not to forget mentioning this player induced miniwarping(PIMW) ;)True that You guys over the pond have advantage over us Euros because the route is so much shorter over there.Some of You squeak and moan when ping is over 70ms!We have to live with pings of 150ms and up.Usually nearly 200ms or more.
I have not promoted IL-2 nor been comparing it to AH too much as some seem to think.So different products after all.It is just the general attitude here sometimes that AH is the Holy Grail in flight sims and "keep no other sims" ;) I fly AH to get certain things and will be flying IL-2 for some other things AH can't provide,yet.
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Eh, why don't you try it yourself ?
I have tried both AH and Il-2. Il-2 is better.
Kinda funny to see tards bashing on Il-2 who haven't even tried it.
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lol, its not our heads buried in the sand.
whats gonna be the next AH killer? Maybe Il-2 2
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Originally posted by Animal:
lol, its not our heads buried in the sand.
whats gonna be the next AH killer? Maybe Il-2 2
Nobody can kill AH,becouse AH is death of beginning it self!There is a lot better Games of WW2.
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With that said, is there really any point to this?
Good lord Possi, thanks for summing it all up. Yikes.
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Nobody can kill AH,becouse AH is death of beginning it self!There is a lot better Games of WW2.
Tard of the year.
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:) and I think Possi is their ring leader.
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Ok, I am downloading the demo to see what all this fuss is about. If IL-2 is the 2nd coming, I certainly don't want to miss it :D
In the end, I could care less about who thinks what is better. I can decide for myself what I like, and I don't feel a need to impose my taste in flight sims on others :p
I do doubt that IL-2 will be so entertaining to me that I will cancel my AH account and make it my primary sim. Since it is only a demo, IL-2 probably won't last on my hard drive for long. But you never know, I could be wrong.
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Well, DB, the warping comment is because you are across the ocean.
In case you didn't know, you ARE across an ocean. Unless something has changed in the way time delay works, you are several seconds behind the US in terms of connection.
ADSL, CAble, DSL, whatever-> You will have higher latency/ping times than those from the East Coast of the USA. Considering you have to cross an ocean in an underwater pipeline.
I figured you had a low end system because you complained about bad framerates. I don't have bad framerates yet my system is less than half of yours.
Maybe you need a new video card or something isn't working right in your system.
Either way, I never said the US was better- but it appears we are atleast more educated and don't immediately assume that anyone who makes a comment regarding *known facts about the internet* is a bumbling fool from the good ol' US of A where the streets are paved with crack and morons.
So, in other words, blow it out your self-righteous ass.
-SW
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I guess Possi's talking about WWIIOnline(?).
Don't worry, if you guys keep embracing every single game that ever comes out even remotely centered on WWII, chances are you'll eventually be right.
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S!
I don't need to blow out anything from anywhere anymore, You just did it for me SW ;) :D And being SECONDS behind..well..ain't that over 2000ms(if 2sec)?Quite a difference between 200ms(normal ping) and 2000ms there ;)The vid card I use is also more than adequate to run AH, GF2 Pro 64Mb DDR. Using GF3 for AH would be like throwing pearls to pigs ;)I won't comment Your educational system. It is what it is and very different from ours, so let it be calling Yerself more educated than us Europeans.
This thread is more than hostile and seems that both camps do not tolerate criticism and do their best to put under "opposing" sim from their point of view.Adult people arguing over a piece of code called flight sim...Oh well...Case closed.This thread sucks and should be closed before it becomes even more hostile.
[ 09-02-2001: Message edited by: DB603 ]
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Originally posted by SWulfe:
Well, DB, the warping comment is because you are across the ocean.
In case you didn't know, you ARE across an ocean. Unless something has changed in the way time delay works, you are several seconds behind the US in terms of connection.
ADSL, CAble, DSL, whatever-> You will have higher latency/ping times than those from the East Coast of the USA. Considering you have to cross an ocean in an underwater pipeline.
I figured you had a low end system because you complained about bad framerates. I don't have bad framerates yet my system is less than half of yours.
Maybe you need a new video card or something isn't working right in your system.
Either way, I never said the US was better- but it appears we are atleast more educated and don't immediately assume that anyone who makes a comment regarding *known facts about the internet* is a bumbling fool from the good ol' US of A where the streets are paved with crack and morons.
So, in other words, blow it out your self-righteous ass.
-SW
FYI SW, My ping to AH. Your post was full of manure and you still think you're educated? Think again.
(http://www.kolumbus.fi/staga/pingbeta02092001.gif)
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IL2 is just a diffent sort of game.
As it is now,it`ll be focusing more on small squadronsize combat,instead of the nonstop onslaught of the MA.If You like roleplaying,and replaying real missions of real battles of WWII,than IL2 is the game for You.
Furballs won`t be present either because of the engine overheat effects,as it is right now,I`m lucky to finish one fight without damaging my engine.
The Bf109 isn`t the superplane anymore like it was in beta01.Flightmodel,and many other things are being tweaked,and it`s getting a very reallistic feel.The demo isn`t what IL2 will be like,only a teaser.
So just chill out and wait `till it comes out as a finished product before jumping into conclusions.
It`ll be a fun game no matter what.
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"...In case you didn't know, you ARE across an ocean. Unless something has changed in the way time delay works, you are several seconds behind the US in terms of connection...".
Kids, don't let this happen to you. If you don't know what the heck you are talking about, keep it zipped! :)
bowser
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Swolfe,
Came into my mind that you could transmit information to moon in 3 seconds :p (or so..)
I didn't know US was one third of the way to the moon.
Anyway, my ping to HTC has been usually 165ms.
Even many yanks has worse latency than I do.
(yanks, USers, North Americans, N.Americans, US residents... I'll pick the yanks)
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I got bored in the MA and decided to run some IL2 again....but you know. Its a box game...
its boring.
back to the ma for me.
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SW how does my ping look for you ? :D ;)
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Looks like you have 25 hops there Staga.
That's a lot of data to be routed and a lot of different paths that can work well that time but may not be consistent. I have 12 hops to the HTC server.
One thing I have noticed, it's a lot of the European players complaining about warping. Being inside the US will give you a better ping time and less latency, or did you not know that?
The average European player dies about half a second after the average American player because of latency.
But I must be wrong! I mean, we all know the internet works in milliseconds.
You all saw the "few seconds" and the "ah now it's my turn to shine" beacon flipped on in your mind.
If I can get AH to run on a 56K modem in a Celeron 466 perfectly well, then I don't think it's *ME* who's uneducated.
-SW
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BTW Staga, my post was correct. I typed in seconds because I was in a hurry, but of course it was your chance for a little pot shot.
You are the uneducated one... more hops= more latency + less stability.
-SW
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Sure SW :)
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Wow Staga, that is double the hops and latency I'm getting. (11, and 84 respectively)
Pry doesn't effect gameplay, but I'd not want to have twice as bad a connection either.
(http://www.charleskremer.com/ping.jpg)
[ 09-03-2001: Message edited by: Creamo ]
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Actually I'm surprised how good connection I have to HTC. After all SW was right in one thing when he said our data "have to cross an ocean in an underwater pipeline". Guess I have to thank my ISP and ADSL for that :)
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Well on the ping thing i have 1 ISP gets me 165 ms over 14 hops to AH, I have another that gets me 190ms over 22 hops.
The quality of play between them is worlds apart.
Its the number of hops involved rather than the ping at least in my experience up to about 250ms.
Each hop is another potential routing problem which will degrade your play.
Back to IL2 tried it and really like the smoke effect from the aircraft guns if nothing else that looks realistic as in gun cam footage.
I do not think IL2 would make it as a MMOG simply because I think it would be far to complex with all the engine management stuff to attract sufficient casual players to be financially viable.
And whichever way you look at it I do not believe there are sufficient die hard max realism players to support it as a MMOG.
However as a potentially very good, and eye candy rich outa the box online capable game sure no problem.
[ 09-03-2001: Message edited by: 214thCavalier ]
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Yup, and that connect should work just fine.
This whole massive multiplayer gaming from all over the world is pretty amazing to me still. (other than WWIIOL :) )