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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Simaril on July 18, 2006, 01:26:59 PM

Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Simaril on July 18, 2006, 01:26:59 PM
Anybody know how many "Pounds HE" damage these actually do in AH land? Not really a question of historical performance...

I seem to remember reading it was 100 lbs damage, but that may have been a halucination....
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Treize69 on July 18, 2006, 02:08:57 PM
I've always been told 100 pounds.

And 10 of them from a 38L seems to do as much damage as a 1,000 pounder does.
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Kurt on July 18, 2006, 03:42:19 PM
I think it might be 200, and I am certain it is more than 100... Here is why...

When I do a run on a hanger in a 51d or a F6F I drop 2 1000 pound bombs and I salvo 6 rockets...

In one pass that will take any hanger down (assuming a good hit)... Hangers are 3k pounds right?  So in order for the math to work out, each rocket must be at least 166 pounds of ord in order to add up to the extra 1k pounds I needed.
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Murdr on July 18, 2006, 03:46:51 PM
156 lbs of ordinance.
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Husky01 on July 18, 2006, 03:49:59 PM
I dont know sry wish i knew
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Murdr on July 18, 2006, 03:55:26 PM
I do know.  I just answered it :)
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Husky01 on July 18, 2006, 03:56:48 PM
Opps didnt see that thanks !:aok
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Kurt on July 18, 2006, 03:56:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Murdr
I do know.  I just answered it :)


Ok, but in order for that number to be correct, then the hanger hardness can't be 3000.   Because 6x156 is 780
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: 68Ripper on July 18, 2006, 03:58:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Murdr
156 lbs of ordinance.


You sure it's not 156.999999999999999999999 lbs??? :lol
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Murdr on July 18, 2006, 04:01:12 PM
Its not, 3,000 lbs.  2 - 1000 lbs bombs, and 4 direct 5" rocket hits will drop a hanger.  I believe it was 2,600 lbs.
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Murdr on July 18, 2006, 04:03:09 PM
I last reposted the source material in this thread. (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1960583#post1960583)
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Kurt on July 18, 2006, 04:10:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Murdr
Its not, 3,000 lbs.  2 - 1000 lbs bombs, and 4 direct 5" rocket hits will drop a hanger.  I believe it was 2,600 lbs.


Just looked at Arena Settings offline and its 2,781 to drop a hanger.  Right on the edge there.
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Murdr on July 18, 2006, 04:11:38 PM
So did I :)

Wierd thing is that I always drop hangers in 1 pass with 2 - 1k eggs, and 5 rockets... there must be a decimal point in there because it should be 1 pound short at 156 lbs.
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Kurt on July 18, 2006, 04:15:04 PM
Wait...

Murdr, you're saying 2x 1k bomb and 4 rockets...

Four rockets to hit for 781 would mean they hit for 195.25 pounds of damage each..

Something is still wrong.
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Murdr on July 18, 2006, 04:18:13 PM
It used to take 4 at 1 time, Im sure of that....but I have been adding 1 for good measure for so long, I didnt notice it was different.

Just loaded a copy of AH1.  Same setting there also.
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Kurt on July 18, 2006, 04:20:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Murdr
It used to take 4 at 1 time, Im sure of that....but I have been adding 1 for good measure for so long, I didnt notice it was different.


Looks like its time for a serious test eh?  My number was 200... I'm hoping that I got it right... Like a lottery of sorts :aok
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Murdr on July 18, 2006, 04:30:16 PM
Nope it is 156lbs.  If you doubt me, set hanger hardness to 157 and 1 rocket will not drop it.  Then set hardness to 156 and 1 rocket will destroy hanger.

This was all already tested, link posted above.
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Kurt on July 18, 2006, 04:32:17 PM
Well, ok, I'll do that...

But 781 / 4 is not 156...  So some number somewhere is wrong.  I don't make the rules of math... I just follow them.
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Murdr on July 18, 2006, 04:34:48 PM
I said I always fire 5 :)
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Kurt on July 18, 2006, 04:38:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Murdr
I said I always fire 5 :)


haha, sure, but that means they would have to deliver 156.2.

Computers don't just add .2 to a number for fun... Something is wrong.  :)
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Murdr on July 18, 2006, 04:47:09 PM
Look at the other results, they are decimals.  The .50 cals worked out to be worth 1.17 lbs of ordinance.
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Kurt on July 18, 2006, 04:51:55 PM
I'll buy that.

So the correct answer must be 156.2  Not 156
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Murdr on July 18, 2006, 04:55:33 PM
It is equal to or greater than 156.3, but less than 156.4.  I just tested those 2 figures offline.  Either way, if you round it off I was right :)
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Husky01 on July 18, 2006, 04:59:59 PM
Urrggg Math:huh
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Murdr on July 18, 2006, 05:00:42 PM
Here is the original analysis thread (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=97083&highlight=pounds)

and here were the results

Gun Type                Dam in #
.303 Browning AC 0.296
.303 Browning GV 0.3125
7.6mm ShKAS 0.296
7.7mm Breda - SAFAT 0.28
7.7mm Type 97 0.296
7mm MG 17 0.3
.50 M2 AC 1.17
.50 M2 GV 1.25
12.7mm Breda - SAFAT 0.95
12.7mm Ho-103 0.998
12.7mm UBS 1.15
13mm MG 131 0.92
20mm B-20 3.47
20mm Hispano Mk II 4.03
20mm Hispano Mk V 3.94
20mm Ho-5 3.36
20mm M2 AC 4.03
20mm MG 151/20 3.55
20mm MG-FF 3.25
20mm ShVAK 3.47
20mm Type 99 Mk 1 3.42
20mm Type 99 Mk 2 3.85
23mm VYa 5.62
30mm Mk 108 11.63
37mm NS37 16.67
40mm Vickers S 13.89 *
37mm PT Boat            13.2
40mm PT Boat            15.6
37mm HE Ostwind 15.15 *
37mm AP 15.6  #1
37mm HE 31.2  #1
75mm AP 78.1  #1
75mm HE       156.2  #1
88mm AP       117.1  #1
88mm HE       234.3  #1
3.5" Rocket       140.0  #1
4.5" Rocket        93.0  #1
5" Rocket       156.0  #1
RS132       125.0  #1
RS82        93.0  #1
WGr21       200.0  #1
Shore Battery          250 - 500 #2
Cruiser Gun            250 - 500  #2



* The Vickers S and 37mm HE Ostwind are the only weapons I
am not 100% certain of the full series of tests had very
inequal results. The value shown is the maximum damage
inflicted per round. I suspect that the variance is caused
by a bug in the burst dispersion code.
#1 Testing for the GV main guns and rockets was different.
I fired 1 round into a hanger and constantly tweaked the
hanger's damage resistence until I found the maximum single
round damage.
#2 The Main Guns on the Cruisers fire 3 shells at a time
each shell does 250lbs to 500lbs of damage. If all 3 hit then the
target just took 750lbs to 1500lbs of damage. The damage is scaled by range 250lbs at maximum range, 500lbs at point blank, 390lbs at 6400 yards.


Edit:  Additional note on this...  These figures apply to verses objects.  When you get into verses planes, that is a more complex model, and factors like velocity of impact vary the damage done.
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Widewing on July 18, 2006, 06:45:19 PM
The Navy developed 5" HVAR rockets weighed approximately 140 lbs, and were armed with a 55 lb warhead. Maximum velocity attained via rocket power exclusively (discounting gravity assist) was 1,375 ft/sec (419 m/sec).

We also have the M8 4.5", tube launched rockets. Each rocket weighed 38.4 pounds, with 5.3 pounds of explosive (shaped charge). Max velocity was 860 ft/sec (262 m/sec).

Note that the 5" rocket carries a hell of a lot more explosive than an HE round from an 88 mm gun, and should be modeled as such.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Slash27 on July 18, 2006, 07:07:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by goldelks
Urrggg Math:huh



No kidding. Skuzzy lock this one quik.:cry
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: WilldCrd on July 18, 2006, 11:41:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Murdr
Here is the original analysis thread (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=97083&highlight=pounds)

and here were the results
[code]
Gun Type                Dam in #
.303 Browning AC   0.296
.303 Browning GV   0.3125
7.6mm ShKAS      0.296
7.7mm Breda - SAFAT   0.28
7.7mm Type 97      0.296
7mm MG 17      0.3
.50 M2 AC      1.17
.50 M2 GV      1.25
12.7mm Breda - SAFAT   0.95
12.7mm Ho-103      0.998
12.7mm UBS      1.15
13mm MG 131      0.92
20mm B-20      3.47
20mm Hispano Mk II   4.03
20mm Hispano Mk V   3.94
20mm Ho-5      3.36
20mm M2 AC      4.03
20mm MG 151/20      3.55
20mm MG-FF      3.25
20mm ShVAK      3.47
20mm Type 99 Mk 1   3.42
20mm Type 99 Mk 2   3.85
23mm VYa      5.62
30mm Mk 108      11.63
37mm NS37      16.67
40mm Vickers S      13.89 *
37mm PT Boat            13.2
40mm PT Boat            15.6
37mm HE   Ostwind      15.15 *
37mm AP         15.6  #1
37mm HE         31.2  #1
75mm AP         78.1  #1
75mm HE             156.2  #1
88mm AP             117.1  #1
88mm HE             234.3  #1
3.5" Rocket          140.0  #1
4.5" Rocket           93.0  #1
5" Rocket          156.0  #1
RS132             125.0  #1
RS82              93.0  #1
WGr21             200.0  #1
Shore Battery          250 - 500 #2
Cruiser Gun            250 - 500  #2
/QUOTE]


hmm is it just me or is there something "off" in the powah of a 3.5 and a 4.5 ?
i would think the 4.5 carried a lil more shazam than a 3.5
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Widewing on July 19, 2006, 12:30:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by WilldCrd
Quote

hmm is it just me or is there something "off" in the powah of a 3.5 and a 4.5 ?
i would think the 4.5 carried a lil more shazam than a 3.5 [/B]


Well, the 4.5 was just an enlarged bazooka rocket, with only 5.3 lb of explosives. Moreover, it was a shaped charge, designed to penetrate armor with not much effect against soft targets.

On the other hand, the 5" rocket contained more than twice the explosive in an 88 mm HE round, yet it (the rocket) is rated lower in destructive power than the 88...  Beats as to me why...

My regards,

Widewing
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Stoney74 on July 19, 2006, 02:40:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
The Navy developed 5" HVAR rockets weighed approximately 140 lbs, and were armed with a 55 lb warhead...Note that the 5" rocket carries a hell of a lot more explosive than an HE round from an 88 mm gun, and should be modeled as such.

My regards,

Widewing


I guess that's why U.S. pilots raved about the things.  If ours are porked, no wonder why everyone in AH is so casual about them.  I've seen the current 5-inch ZUNI in action, and it really lays the smack down (loud boom).  Don't know warhead size or velocity and how they compare to the WWII models.  But, the WWII models, at 55 lbs. of HE, are packing almost 2/3rds the warhead of a current 155mm howitzer round (93 lbs of HE).   And those make a big boom when they impact.
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Bronk on July 19, 2006, 10:06:09 AM
Now lets talk adding the "Tiny Tim"  rockets.  :D

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/1bronk1/tiny-tim-1.jpg)




Bronk
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Widewing on July 21, 2006, 11:35:44 AM
From Naval Aviation News....

(http://home.att.net/~c.c.jordan/NavyRocketsWWII.jpg)

My regards,

Widewing
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: volvo744 on July 21, 2006, 12:42:05 PM
Perhaps the rockets were carried by a European swallow? ;)
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Simaril on July 21, 2006, 06:53:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by volvo744
Perhaps the rockets were carried by a European swallow? ;)


I believe you mean the African Swallow, sir....
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: volvo744 on July 22, 2006, 05:34:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Simaril
I believe you mean the African Swallow, sir....

:o
Been a while. My bad.
Title: US 5" rockets question
Post by: Simaril on July 22, 2006, 07:31:51 AM
Just so we don't think that coconuts are migratory....



:lol