Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Major Biggles on July 19, 2006, 06:07:01 AM
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is seeing someone you have trained for months pick up on the game and start flying with skill and a decent knowledge of the game:)
reason that i randomly say this, is that there is so much talent in the community and on these boards, and hundreds of new guys every month, who could all use a hand, and would really appreciate any advise from more experienced players. recently, and well, most of the time really, you dont see many experienced players in the TA, other than the trainers and some of the regular TA helpers.
i see plenty of great players in the MA that to my knowledge have never really devoted any time to passing on the things they have learned, and it's a shame really, because some of us TA helpers would love to see some of you guys come by, because the TA isnt just about teaching kids how to raise their gear, but teaching every player of any skill level to do whatever they want, be it accurate bombing or really advanced ACM. some of the best fights i have EVER had have been with the trainers in the TA :)
so i was wondering if more people would stop by the TA for a bit each week or so, pass on what they have learned to players who need it, and complete the cycle.
you personally can up the skill level of the game and have great fun doing it, and i really urge a few more of you guys to get in there, or lend your ideas to posts in the H & T forum, because everyone's advise is helpful :)
all, hope to see a few more of you in there from time to time :)
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I fully intend, when my skill level is sufficient, to spend time in the TA helping people who are newer than I am. I've received an abundance of help and advice from several members already. Special thanks to Simaril, Schatzi, and Ren for allowing me to observe his training session last night.
People like the aforementioned have upped my learning curve exponentially
and I'm learning something new every day. Also the people or person that made the netaces site. That's my bible now.
It's my opinion that overall this site has a higher ratio of decent people to jerks than anywhere else I've been on the net.
Even now if I'm in the TA and someone needs a target or help with something I've learned I'm happy to help. Kind of the pay it forward philosophy.
So, I'd say, aside from the thrill of flying and aircombat I'd say the most rewarding thing in AH is the good people.
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I have gone into the DA and TA with a couple of folks in the past and have watched them progress. It is very rewarding.
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You know, I try to help people out whenever they ask, but I always get this feeling in the back of my head that I am messing them up or teaching them bad habits. I always throw in that disclaimer "but really, you should get in touch with a real trainer."
I've been trying to help out a squaddie lately, and he is improving quite a bit. Basically I've just given him a few of the basic breaks, merges, and thoughts that he can build on as a foundation.
The problem is, when I try to explain something to him, I'm all about the "umms, errs, well's I dunno's how to say its"... Then I go into the TA and tag along for a training session TC's giving a guy, and he has it down pat. It's really amazing how some people just know this game inside out to such a degree that they can break down the most complicated things smoothly, and have it make sense to everyone the first time.
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Originally posted by Vudak
You know, I try to help people out whenever they ask, but I always get this feeling in the back of my head that I am messing them up or teaching them bad habits. I always throw in that disclaimer "but really, you should get in touch with a real trainer."
I've been trying to help out a squaddie lately, and he is improving quite a bit. Basically I've just given him a few of the basic breaks, merges, and thoughts that he can build on as a foundation.
The problem is, when I try to explain something to him, I'm all about the "umms, errs, well's I dunno's how to say its"... Then I go into the TA and tag along for a training session TC's giving a guy, and he has it down pat. It's really amazing how some people just know this game inside out to such a degree that they can break down the most complicated things smoothly, and have it make sense to everyone the first time.
it doesnt matter, as long as you're helping them learn it's all good :)
as for what you teach them, just try and answer their questions and teach them what they feel they a poor at, that's the best way to start out, then you build on that:aok
oh, and dicho, im glad to hear you're enjoying it so much, and schatzi simaril and ren are certainly top notch players and people, you wont go wrong with them :)
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I tell ya....people tell me i'm good....I dont really believe them....I think most pilots feel that way....every once in a while I pop into the Ta to practice something or the other...if you catch me there send me a howdy and if you've got a question...I'll do my best to help you out, you know me, I love to help out, cause I remember just how lost I was until I started flying with the 613th SOS
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Any help is better than none, Vudak. No one dies, no one gets hurt, and therefore it doesn't matter if you're the best pilot or the worst, as long as you helped him. He won't know, and he won't care, because he'll be better off than he was before. :aok
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Nice post Major Biggles :aok ( that "pay it forward" mentality was instilled in alot of us early on)
Vudak, you are far too modest of your capabilities.......biggest thing is being able to figure out where you need to start with someone, that is why you give them a check flight first and tell them to give it all they got in trying to knock you out......from here you can tell quickly what they can/can not do, what they know/don't know.....and if they even have their views set up correctly, or stick set right.........from this point it is like 2nd nature..............give it a try.........;)
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I agree this is a really nice post:D, and very true. I was in the Ta the other day helping some folks, and even though i pretty much suck i guess i knew enough to help. :) I think it's a great thing, you have more fun the more you know how to play, (this game especially). People have helped me so it's nice to return the favor. I owe alot of grattitude to alot of people, Murdr, Widewing, Ren particularly. Joining the 479th Raiders has also helped too. Some of the best fights i've ever had have been in the Ta. :aok
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anyone who asks for help is weak and no one likes a weak person.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs2
anyone who asks for help is weak and no one likes a weak person.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
:rofl
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Originally posted by Major Biggles
i see plenty of great players in the MA that to my knowledge have never really devoted any time to passing on the things they have learned
And how exactly do you know that?
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as sson as i get my subscription and get used to the MA style of fighting (and once i actually get good at fighting) i very much intend to go into the TA at least once before i enter MA and after, to see if i can't hlp sumone or give em a few pointers.:D
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Originally posted by Mako15
I tell ya....people tell me i'm good....I dont really believe them....I think most pilots feel that way....every once in a while I pop into the Ta to practice something or the other...if you catch me there send me a howdy and if you've got a question...I'll do my best to help you out, you know me, I love to help out, cause I remember just how lost I was until I started flying with the 613th SOS
Quit flattering yourself. :D :cool:
People tell me im good.;)
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If you can't figure out what I am doing by fighting me in the MA then you don't deserve to know.
I teach scores of people every day I am in the MA.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Laz,
did you go to school or are you self taught?
IMHO...teaching and better yet, having someone willing to give thier time to teach others is one of the bests gifts that one could give or receive. I, for one, do not think that someone that does not have knowledge or skill is a weakness.
Those who are not willing to share their knowledge and/or skill are the weak ones.
Since we are not all inventors, I do believe that we owe thanks to someone else that "taught or shared thier talent" with us. unless you are the one that invented the computer/internet/ and this BBS. in that case we are eternally grateful to you. (But we all know that Al Gore invented the internet, so that couldn't be you!):D
That would be my $.02 worth.
always <>
JB28
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well, you can roll up your sleeves and help the competition perform better so the fights are more interesting, or belittle them and whine about "fluffers and tool shedders".
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Originally posted by JB28
Laz,
did you go to school or are you self taught?
IMHO...teaching and better yet, having someone willing to give thier time to teach others is one of the bests gifts that one could give or receive. I, for one, do not think that someone that does not have knowledge or skill is a weakness.
Those who are not willing to share their knowledge and/or skill are the weak ones.
Since we are not all inventors, I do believe that we owe thanks to someone else that "taught or shared thier talent" with us. unless you are the one that invented the computer/internet/ and this BBS. in that case we are eternally grateful to you. (But we all know that Al Gore invented the internet, so that couldn't be you!):D
That would be my $.02 worth.
always <>
JB28
Maybe 2 cents worth of advice but that was 200 dollars worth of estrogen. This whole thread sounds like it came from Phil Donahue.
Don't get me wrong you guys that want to help others get better in the game is great. Good on you, but it's getting a little thick.:O
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Don't know about teaching someone anything worth while. (maybe how to get killed and re-up........the readers digest condensed version):D :D
or better yet, how to hit the Ground with 100% accuracy.:aok
Just thankful for those who can and do!
<>28
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Originally posted by Booz
well, you can roll up your sleeves and help the competition perform better so the fights are more interesting, or belittle them and whine about "fluffers and tool shedders".
Booz, you said it buddy!
:aok
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Ive tried to help some people but realized I have far too many bad habits and probably hurt them more than help. I have no idea how to tell someone how I fly. Its like a spastic reaction to what the other guy is doing most times. Which is no way to teach someone how to fly in my opinion.
If there were 3 areas Id tell a guy what to work on it would be these:
1. Gunnery.
2. Fly one plane long enough to know its weakness/strengths against all others.
3. Learning to ride the edge of blackouts and stalls.
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4. look around every 10 seconds while not engaged, more often when in the thick of it
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The only bad habit is teaching them exactly how to fight. Things like gunnery, ettiquette, backing off the throttle, using the tools within the game (dot commands, strat system, communication, E6B, plane strengths and weaknesses)... that's what I see lacking in the MA's newer players.
I'd wager 9 out of 10 guys are already itching to find a bad guy and pull the trigger. I remember when I first started in AH (barely)... I already knew deflection shooting, understood gunnery even though I wasn't anywhere near proficient, had a rough idea of which planes would turn, and which went fast... I just didn't know how to make all of them do those things on cue. I, and maybe I'm the oddball here, didn't need or want anyone to teach me things like BnZ, energy conservation, split esses, etc. I just needed some inkling as to how to fly. I knew once I could get and stay airborne, I'd start figuring the rest out. For me at least, gradually learning, making steady, albeit slow, progress over the years was what kept me interested. Since I started playing cartoon airplane games (Aces Over Europe, then Jane's WW2 Fighters, then the big online world of AW3ish, to AH1, to present) I have maybe 2 hours of formal training, yet I've had fun almost the entire time. There's something to be said for not being fixated on goals in a game, IMO.
Not to venture off topic too much, but I'm more concerned with having an arena full of guys who won't engage without an enormous advantage, and guys who just grab buffs and level everything from 1000' because they couldn't sort out the basics, than having an arena full of hapless noobs who just shoot wildly and auger when ever frightened. At least those hapless noobs are having fun.
Anyway, I think I'll have a beer.
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Hubs, some have a natural knack & just need the game control specifics, others are joe military channel and need a lot of help (as you've seen I'm sure). Last week I spent 40 mins coaxing a guy into CV landings... any time you can spend helping the new guys can only benefit all of us. It sure beats whining about how they can't fly and calling them names like fluffer.
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Yeah, but at the same time, shooting the guys like Lazs down was part of what made hacking away at it rewarding for me. It may have taken a while, but I'm just that sort of personality I guess. I'd rather look at a drawing and tinker with it than read a proper a manual.
Hell, I still enjoy shooting Lazs down, and I haven't improved in years.
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The most rewarding thing in AH (Returning to the topic) is shooting down LKS... I'm sorry, but it is my little weakness.
I spend every Tuesday for at least an hour in the T.A. and a lot of times LKS is in there trying to help new guys too. And I'm not knocking him for that :D
What makes me like shooting him is that he likes to talk about how good he is at evading hits.. He's a competent pilot, but its not like he is Luke Skywalker.. Burnin his plane full of holes brings me big joy. BIG JOY. Any M.A. kill against him brings my squad to hysterics.
Anyhow, I encourage my squad to spend 1 night a week in T.A. We try to help, or learn as we can, and sometimes we pick up a recruit. If no one teaches the newb's then some day there won't be any.
The Clowns are taught from Day 1 that you get from this game exactly what you are willing to give.
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Every one here is in the right state of mind, we need more people helping other people.Some of us enjoy showing the new cadets basics by going into the TA for a bit.Others like Laz show them by action in "live fire " setting kind of a sink or swim situation, which most players respond well to while others may find it frustrating, the only real difference between those 2 styles is laz isn't telling them what they are doing wrong or right and they are having to figure it out on there own.There is nothing wrong with the sink or swim style of teaching and i am not in any way holding anything against Laz for that.
The basic things we all can do upon entering the TA.
1.Upon entering the Training Arena switch Vox channel to 101(101 is the default channel) and those with squad highlight's enabled will be able to tell who the cadets are.Tune to the #6 help channel as well.
2.Make sure the cadets can communicate, type is the first version they will learn, if the cadets have a Mic then you teach them voice communication by means of Range vox and Tunable vox(some players have a hard time understanding tunable vox)while range vox is the easiest for the cadet to learn.
3.Find out what they are using for controls, mouse, joystick, etc.
4.Get them up and flying.
It is roughly as TC put it, once you find out how much they know you go from there.I spend alot of my time in the TA anymore because all you really find in the MA is not like it use to be.I feel if these new cadets are getting a boost over the learning(curve) hump then it will make for better fights in the MA and other arena's.I also tell the new cadets about help sites such as http://www.netaces.org, the Bulletin Board, etc.
There are quite a bit of new players coming in daily some of you might even be surprised how many new pilots are actually coming in per day.I wonder if they can track that?how many new accounts from legitimet ISP's come into Aces High everyday.
That's my .02 cents hope to see more of you in there<<>>
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I will come into the TA and help people be awesome like me.
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See Rule #5, #4
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Originally posted by lazs2
See Rule #5, #4
Laz is a completely self taught master of all he survey's...
Someone taught you what you know Laz..
Originally posted by lazs2
See Rule #5, #4
Dunno, but you sure are spending a lot of time doing it anyhow...
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Might I add, with the present state of the Squad Motd / Arena Message people do not always see the ROE stated on the Arena Message.
Some of these MA dolts come in and do the old 'we can make our own rules' crap and that only leads to chaos. I remember when lethality was up in the TA but rules weren't followed and it was changed to accomodate the dolts who wont or can't follow simple rules.
Remember when the DA was changed because of all the problems when the unwritten ROE, which just about anyone who spent any time there should have known, were not followed?
HTC implimented the rules and they want that arena run that way. Trainers do enforce those and quite a few dolts have been sent off to 'watch reruns of The Nanny' but it's also partly the community's job to practice and train within those ROE.
If you don't or can't follow those ROE we have many other bases for you to fly at where you can 'do your own thing' and not be an example of what not to do in the TA.
I'll get off my cabbage crate now.
In fact I'll kick the cabbage crate out from under me and hang around waiting to be abused.
And someone needs some glasses because they are not seeing correctly. Then again how can you see something when you never bother to look at it.
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Originally posted by lazs2
See Rule #5, #4
I figure you're just stirring the pot, but people taking fast planes and running away from everything would, in my mind, betray that a person has NOT spent a lot of time in the TA... Or the DA... Or in a furball... If you prefer.
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Originally posted by lazs2
See Rule #4
good question.. he is/was definitely Value Menu Boys material....
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Originally posted by lazs2
See Rule #5, #4
Lazs I have a bit of a twist on this.
The people you are experiencing are the people who DON'T got to the TA.
Every time i go in there (usually just to warm up) 90% are turn fighting the other 10% are just zooming around .
I think anyone who goes to the TA with a trainer (Widewing for example) would be more than willing to turn fight.
This summer I have seen more " Whats the fastest plane?" on country channel in the ma...Yet I can count on one hand the times I've seen it asked in the TA.
This leads me to believe the population of noobs just want instant gratification. They see the ma has the largest population and that's where they want to be skill or no skill.
All I am asking is to reevaluate your above statement.
Bronk
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See Rule #5
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on GEnie long ago .. I was helped a bit by Ghost Rider and Blue Baron one evening .. filmed it .. evaluated what I was doin wrong, corrected that, and worked on my shooting, which was the worst of my skills back then.
I couldn't seem to hit the broad side of a B-17 from 10 paces.
From there, I remembered how I felt the first few weeks in the arena, and whenever someone new logged in and started askin basic stuff like how to get to an airfield an such.. I would meet them at a field, and go over some of the basics with them, tellin em to write down the commands they would need.
From there it developed into a routine .. new player logs in, I'd ask 'em if they were good at flight sims.
Nearly everyone would list all the sims they had played, it usually took awhile..when they were done, I'd say 'great, now that's outta yer system, welcome to AW.. forget all those others, 'cause this is against people, not drones.'
Got to the point where Carrie gave me my own BBS address.. 'GE's Welcome Wagon' .. where I and some others would answer any question posted by players.
THen came the Air Warrior Trainers .. and the Air Warrior Training Academy.
I stayed in it through the early years .. but increasingly, people would log into the training area just to duel me.. and that wasn't why I was there, and it became a distraction to the training arena. Trainers would be trying to explain something to someone, and some yahoo would be typing in the chat buffer all the usual BS to try and get me to duel them.
My last flight as an AW Trainer, Tex came in, wanted to duel in spitfires, cause most people knew I was a Mustang pilot, dint mess much with the turn an burn planes at all.
He and others dint know I learned first in the Spit 9 and Zeke .. then progressed to the Mustang.
I went up, took him out, and left.
To this day I don't duel as a rule.
I have on occasion been goaded enough to duel someone, but frankly, it never proves anything except whoever makes the first mistake usually loses.
I'd rather spend my time hunting with friends ..havin fun.
As for AH . . I just don't feel competent enough or energetic enough to take on the role of trainer .. again.
Yet.
Mebbe in a year or two.
-GE
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lasz, then why dont YOU start training people, show them how to fight?
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See Rule #5
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If you think *this* is helpful training that will change the MA.......
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What a trainer laz is. Sort of 'don't be like me' would be the lesson there.
With some folk, the more they type the more you wish they didn't.
If you ever did visit the TA I'd bet within 30 or 40 seconds I'd be calling you a dolt.
Last response I ever give to that 'I want attention' dolt.
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See Rule #4, #5
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See Rule #2, #5
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Originally posted by lazs2
See Rule #4, #5
Problem with this Lazs is that what is good for one person isn't always good for another.
That being said, I'm like you in that I figure I'll get better by diving into the crowd and having at it. I don't have the patience to go to the TA and learn. I like it when something just comes to me after getting my backside handed to me so many times in the MA.
But that doesn't mean that other folks can't gain from someone elses experience in the TA. I applaud the folks who take the time to help those willing to learn.
I do think the nature of the MA beast is that it will always promote the timid, fly the uber ride mentality because that is what is 'rewarded' most visibly with the 'attaboys' and name in lights stuff.
"Look! I must be good! I vulched 10 guys in my LA7 and went home at light speed to land the 'kills!"
Of course my general suckiness might be a good indicator I should try and learn another way, but there's something about on the deck in a fight that draws me in again and again and again :)
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Originally posted by Furball
See Rule #2, #5
okaaaay...
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See Rule #6, #2