Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Husky01 on July 19, 2006, 03:02:57 PM
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This is just a question but do you ever get the felling that some guys come into a fight just looking to Ho "Head on" some on? Is it becouse its the only way they can get a kill......think its funny....or what?
If i get Hoed once or twice its no big deal "you know" its like dang that stunk but o well.... but some days it seems like all day you get Hoed every flight no matter what plane....what team your fighting..what plane your in...ext lol
Now I will admit I have hoed many a times but i try to avoid the ho at all cost, IF possible:) Also im not complaining about guys Hoing ...just asking why they do it.
just thought i ask for some imput! Thanks
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I honestly just think it is mostly new guys who don't have any idea how to make an attack so they drive at you and pull the trigger. I don't think there is any big conspiracy at work.
These are the same new guys that will follow a flaming hulk down to try and get some score.
I've stopped concerning myself with it.
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Now I will admit I have hoed many a times but i try to avoid the ho at all cost, IF possible
A complete contradiction if I ever saw one ...
I would say that greater than 90% of the people go for the HO or will go for the HO if presented to them.
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[opinion]
Too many folks learned to play multiplayer games via Doom/Quake/UT or some other point-at-the-enemy-and-fire games. They take the lessons they learned there and point the nose at the enemy and fire without regard to angles, ACM, or even BFM.
[/opinion]
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well i think people do it cause they dont want to get pulled into a turnfight...being a turnfighter myself, this annoys me...but it isn't really ho'ing that bothers me...its the inevitable ram that follows
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Originally posted by SlapShot
90% of the people go for the HO or will go for the HO if presented to them.
If presented?
After the initial moves, yeah, if you're pointed at me, and I'm pointed at you, I'm coming down on the trigger everytime... Thats not an HO.
HO is driving right at someone from 3k out... Not when you happen to get a frontal shot in an established fight.
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Originally posted by goldelks
This is just a question but do you ever get the felling that some guys come into a fight just looking to Ho "Head on" some on? Is it becouse its the only way they can get a kill......think its funny....or what?
If i get Hoed once or twice its no big deal "you know" its like dang that stunk but o well.... but some days it seems like all day you get Hoed every flight no matter what plane....what team your fighting..what plane your in...ext lol
Now I will admit I have hoed many a times but i try to avoid the ho at all cost, IF possible:) Also im not complaining about guys Hoing ...just asking why they do it.
just thought i ask for some imput! Thanks
Tasting your " red wine" I find myself guilty !
,cuz i Ho a lot, but i Ho vulchers and those cherry pkrs at the end of the runway,99% in IL2, always on caped bases, after getting vulched a lot, but is my masochist fun !
now ,you tell me what's more "dirty"job:
--vulching, or Hoing vulchers??!
Btw, i have 2 pairs of green boots made from your NIKI skin
:)
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Lol ghi you do seem to ho me a lot
all in good fun
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Originally posted by Kurt
If presented?
After the initial moves, yeah, if you're pointed at me, and I'm pointed at you, I'm coming down on the trigger everytime... Thats not an HO.
HO is driving right at someone from 3k out... Not when you happen to get a frontal shot in an established fight.
If I am pointing at you and you are pointing at me (both have guns solutions) and you come down on the trigger ... you have just HOed. It doesn't matter what the distance is (prior to the merge) that consitutes an HO ... it's determined if there is a valid guns to guns solution.
I like to merge just "nose off" ... and in 99% of those merges ... people are working the controls to take the HO with me ... even tho I have no intentions of firing on the merge. I am just setting up for the first turn. They usually fail miserably in their frantic HO attempt and then proceed to die within 1 to 2 turns ... if they stick around.
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Ok...heres a question. Lets say 2 Spitfires are coming right at each other nose to nose...On the merge neither shoot but rather try to setup for a guns pass on the next merge...however...both pilots pull the same maneuver and end up nose to nose once again...one goes for the shot...the other tryes to avoid....was this un-sporting of the shooter..or stupid of the shootie? :D
Originally posted by SlapShot
I like to merge just "nose off" ... and in 99% of those merges ... people are working the controls to take the HO with me ... even tho I have no intentions of firing on the merge. I am just setting up for the first turn. They usually fail miserably in their frantic HO attempt and then proceed to die within 1 to 2 turns ... if they stick around.
Yeah...and some guys have gotten very good at ruddering out of the slipstream and laying bullets on front of your nose off merge. Is that still an HO?
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Originally posted by Kurt
I honestly just think it is mostly new guys who don't have any idea how to make an attack so they drive at you and pull the trigger. I don't think there is any big conspiracy at work.
Agreed. The new player that doesn't understand ACM yet points the nose at an enemy and fire away , extend, turn and repeat. It's annoying when you try to avoid it and they remove your aileron. But if they don't know any better (http://www.kapstadt.de/images/shrug.gif)
But they sure seem to learn quick that the George has cannon loadout for their limited style.
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I wouldnt say unsporty ..you might call it fair the other piolt may call it a cheap shoot..i say all in all its up to the piolts mind wheather its sporty or not.
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
Ok...heres a question. Lets say 2 Spitfires are coming right at each other nose to nose...On the merge neither shoot but rather try to setup for a guns pass on the next merge...however...both pilots pull the same maneuver and end up nose to nose once again...one goes for the shot...the other tryes to avoid....was this un-sporting of the shooter..or stupid of the shootie? :D
I don't know ... I would say that after the initial merge ... its all good.
If I am going 1 v 1 with a guy and we are all alone and the fight is a good one ... I will forego the HO if presented ... I would rather work for the manuver kill ... but that is just me.
Now ... like I said above ... it has to be guns to guns. If I have a high deflection shot (meaning you have no viable guns solution but I have a snap-shot) I will take it and try to shoot yer eye out. Some people actually think that this type of shot is an HO ... when it really isn't.
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
Yeah...and some guys have gotten very good at ruddering out of the slipstream and laying bullets on front of your nose off merge. Is that still an HO?
NOPE ... cause I don't have a guns solution on them ... I call that a good shot ... but ya better make it ... else you are dead.
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I HO as often as possible, it's actually pretty fun to joust. Anymore I just take up a 110 or IL2 and go for the HO. It's amazing how many will gladly enter into this. When someone doesn't attempt this I know I'm dead. Not because of the plane they are flying, but b/c they have a clue and my plane ain't gonna stand up to theirs in an actual fight. Sadly, this only seems to happen 1 outta 10 times.
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Hehe, I've done that in an IL-2 before. I've flown into several 2v1s when I think it is GVs attacking a base but it is really a couple planes. I always go for the joust in that situation, and I'd say at least half the time both planes will fly right at me guns ablaze.
I think it is hilarious, personally.
If I'm in a fighter I'll joust only as a last resort. I think the joust is a desperation move - it just takes a lot less to get some people desperate.
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Thanks super and urchin for them imputi think i might just have totry that some time:D
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I'm of the opinion that few of the AH players have any concept of ACM. The "elders" didn't pass it on, AH only gives lip service to ACM and the turnover does the rest.
I used to do quite well a few years ago, but I'm just lazy and tired of HO's. There are only 2 kinds of fights left.
Fight A - A straight on HO from 3000 out. I go so tired of it that 50% of the time I'll take the HO because I don't care any more.
Fight B - The beginnings of an actual fight. Opps here comes the horde and you get jumped by 10 cons. Doesn't matter there's nothing you can do.
Fight C - The Boom and Zoom. This is about the only option left. Except there's AckAck way up there doing his impresion of Sputnik.
As much as I'm tired of HO threads, every single one of them has a point. The point is... (wait for it) Too many of the players in AH have no background in WW2 planes.
They expect Quakebirds and thats what HTC gives them. When was the last sop to historical play action in AH? Oh I remember, we got new skins.
HTC counts on turnover to keep the revenue coming in as more and more of the "old timers" get bored and give it up. If there's ever a decend 12 step program I'd quit myself.
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GOOD LORD NOT ANOTHER FLIPPIN HO THREAD!!!
come on how about some originality damn
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lol sry just wanted guys imputs on things is all:)
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Now your idea of a HO isnt jsut Head on but you both sides must have a line of shoot on the other...wow didnt know that thanks!:aok
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A lot of folks just can't be arsed to do anything but HO. I was in an 8-player room not too long ago, and one player just seemed to only go for the HO all the time, even if he was in a bad position, slow, and low, whatever.
Now don't get me wrong, read the rest first.
So I made a few comments. We said a few things that could be considered an argument. Not angry, mind you, just an exchange of text about the matter. Okay, and maybe a little of "trying to get his goat" on my part (I apologize for that), but after this he really started putting up a fight. A damn good fight. We had some good Ki84 duels (and him in Ki me in "other" duels). I have about 30 minutes of film of it. Now, this is just one example, and I won't give the pilots name or anything, because he was a stand up guy overall, put up a heckuva fight many times in a row. Don't want you all to rag him for HOing.
But I think that for most pilots, they *CAN* fly a lot better. They just don't want to be bothered!!
The others just do it because they don't know better. You can tell these pilots instantly. They can't do anything but fly straight, HO, run, or auger in a BNZ dive. :t
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Anymore, I always go for the HO if its there.... Everytime I try to avoid or try to manuver past one, bang.. Dead....
So I dont even try to figure out what their lead shot is gonna be, I just open up.
If you dont want to get HO'd, Dont fly direct at someone.
my .02
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Now I can kinda understand Hoing if you have the shoot but other then that i dont much see the point lol
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There isnt a point.
The last actual fight that I had that didnt start with a HO was with Drediock about 2 months ago. He was in his 109 and I was in a Seafire. We spun and flipped around for a good 5 minutes before he got picked by a bastage flyin high and popped him.
It sucked that it ended like that. I never saw the 2nd bird come in til it was too late.
Unfortunatly, and I include myself in this statement. Too many pilots in the MA either havent learned the ACM skills or dont want to bother learning them. I'm slowly figuring it all out but it takes a lot of time and many deaths before you become "ok".
Why flop around with an aircraft when you can HO one and go on. Its sad but its the reality of AH.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
If I am pointing at you and you are pointing at me (both have guns solutions) and you come down on the trigger ... you have just HOed.
For the purpose of HO whining, I disagree... If we have already merged and are now into our fight, a front on shot is valid.
I realize that from the strict definition this is a head on. What I'm saying is that AFTER the first merge if you cry out 'That n00b HO'd me' - Then you're just a sore loser.
HO in the whining about it context means shooting in the merge. I do not do that unless you shot first and I believe I have the guns to do the job.
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rgr
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Originally posted by Kurt
For the purpose of HO whining, I disagree... If we have already merged and are now into our fight, a front on shot is valid.
I realize that from the strict definition this is a head on. What I'm saying is that AFTER the first merge if you cry out 'That n00b HO'd me' - Then you're just a sore loser.
HO in the whining about it context means shooting in the merge. I do not do that unless you shot first and I believe I have the guns to do the job.
I personally still consider that a HO. Some do, some don't.
I also think it's the context of the fight. If that situation happens to me in the MA, it annoys me a bit but I except it. In a DA setting where your trying to win through ACMs I think it's kind of a lame thing to do.
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Usually I avoid a ho but then I come across players that shall remain nameless goldelks and I usually ho just hear them scream on ch 200, man he never stops after that.
p.s it was not a ho i was on your 8 o clock.
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Whats all this yapping about Ho's. We have Ho's in this game? I never seen em! How many percs do they cost? Are they any good? Are they clean?? Where do you find em? I heard they were in the MA. Where??:t
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Originally posted by SuperDud
I personally still consider that a HO. Some do, some don't.
I also think it's the context of the fight. If that situation happens to me in the MA, it annoys me a bit but I except it. In a DA setting where your trying to win through ACMs I think it's kind of a lame thing to do.
Yeah, Super, I agree in the DA things change a lot. The guys in my squad will usually define those things before the flight during the 'rules of the fight' discussion.
In the DA, if someone says front shots are prohibited I will always accomodate... DA is a whole different thing and I feel that as long as the pilots are within the rules they agree to before the fight then its all good... That can be a HO hot merge, or Front shots ok after merge, or not.
Usually when working with my squad we do cold merge, no rules after the merge. Meaning that anything you can do to spit me in half is all good. :aok
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Dark and after you said no i was on your 6 i said o ok nvm then lol member?
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Here we go again... :rolleyes:
HO passes are just a part of the game and there is no sense whining about them. Sure it doesn't take much skill (other than good gunnery) to get a kill that way, I'm not going to whine if I get wacked that way because it is partly my fault if I do.
Face it, it takes two to make a head on merge. I could dive, or loop, or do any number of manuevers to screw up the guns solution on someone coming straight in. If I just keep on and we both open up, then I'm taking my chances (as is my opponent), and whoever gets wacked might just as well STFU and take it like a man instead of whining like a little girl on channel 200.
There are times when HO tactics are justifiable - you know, it was good enough for the luftwaffe to use on the 8th AF's B17s, so it might have some merit in some situations in AH2 as well folks. If I'm going after some suicide Lanc or B24 dive bombing my carrier, you can damn well expect me to open up head on, and aim right for the cockpit too. Good enough for the luftwaffe, good enough for me. Expect me to blaze away in a 110 as well, cause anyone that head-ons a 110 deserves what they get.
EagleDNY
$.02
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like i said on the original post im not whining just wanna know why guys do it is all:D
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Originally posted by MINNOW
Everytime I try to avoid or try to manuver past one, bang.. Dead....
I seem to have that same affliction. I started out in this game never trying to HO. Throwback to AW I think. Died trying to avoid enough times that I will now accept the HO sometimes especially if I'm in a cannon bird.
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Originally posted by Killjoy2
Fight A - A straight on HO from 3000 out. I go so tired of it that 50% of the time I'll take the HO because I don't care any more.
Fight B - The beginnings of an actual fight. Opps here comes the horde and you get jumped by 10 cons. Doesn't matter there's nothing you can do.
Fight C - The Boom and Zoom. This is about the only option left. Except there's AckAck way up there doing his impresion of Sputnik.
of all these i hate B the most, and unfortunately is mostly what i see. it seems like the majority of the MA enjoys having 5 guys kill 1. i seem to get frustrated a lot lately for the sole reason that people are terrified to fight without a small gang, even if it is one plane. oh well, what can you do? just strange how so many are so scared to fight and die, but yet will take shots that have such a high risk of failure. maybe its frustration for them too because if they don't get the kill before the other 6 guys jump in, their chances for a kill drop.
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i agree B upsets me the most:t
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I'll take any shot I can get, never know when, or if, the next one will come. That being said, i'd rather not HO.
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what are y'all playing this game for? i play to make pixels in the shape of airplanes into the shapes of explosions. if the HO is the quickest way to do that then i will. but then again alot of my decisions come from the situation presented to me 3v1? i HO the first plane i see. 2v1 generally i try to acm but not always i think alot of it depends on your mood what you wanna accomplish on that particular sorty etc...
i ain't the greatest at dogfighting but i am tryng to improve my acm but then again there are times when the blood lust and getting my name on 200 tell me that i must HO anyone and everyone i see. i don't necessarily belive that anyone ups a plane and says to themselves "i am gonna HO" but then again i could be wrong.
but contradictory to that last statement, if i up from a vulched field i HO everyone i can because i believe that defending the base supercedes the necessity of of proper acm courtesies.
just my perspective on the matter.
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thanks everyone for ur imput my original questions still hasnt been answered exactly but all this info does help a lot
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I'd say 90% of ah players will ho on initial merge. Some have become quite good at hitting this way. I think its a lame way to fight. I've fought plenty of vets who will ho on every merge. Even when you wind up nose to nose & one pilot will angle off slightly & try to present a difficult target most will still ho even though it's obvious that the other pilot is trying to show that he isn't going to take the shot.
Guess we had all better get used to it because that's just the way it is now in the ma.
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Yes but I really hate it when they ho my tiger in their m3... i know just what you mean goldelks... LOL hey wait a minute....they have planes in this game ??
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LMAO:rofl
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Many people go for the HO to get a kill. There are a lot of people that can not fight because they just don't get ACM. Some people get it, and some people don't. Some people are egocentric so HO'ing is a great thing for them. They fail to understand the human problems that arise to the other player. They don't view other players as real people, but only as computer planes that are their for their enjoyment.
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Thanks Kermit for your Imput much appriciated:aok
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I'll Ho, i don't see what's wrong with it, other than the chance it may mess you up from getting a good angle later. If i'm outnumbered or in some disadvantaged situation especially and i see a chance were there's little chance that i might get killed, i'll take a Ho shot. You don't owe it to the other guy not too. If someone also points there nose at me and i can't angle of in time i'll ho back. People forget one of the number one mantra's of aircombat, "Get the killing work over with quickly".
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Ive got lots of films of guys that die trying to ho me but most times I end up losing a part I need to avoid ramming so I try not to ho but it still happens. Try saying all that in one breathe. :D
What I noticed though is that there are more ho attempts as I get more and more outnumbered I guess because they lose patience trying to get the kill. Thats when killshooter helps too!
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A head-on attack is part of ACM.
If I get HO'ed by a guy that came at me from 3k out and level, and I didn't do anything, then its my fault. I should have reacted or made a move to avoid it. While yes doing manuevers is fun and shows "SKILLZ" a head-on attack is effective if shots are landed. It gives you a chance to kill the engine, wound the pilot, etc.
If you get HO'ed, think yourself, "what did I do that allowed this to happen?".
As for me, I'll HO from time to time. If theres a goon I'm protecting and I'm trying to protect it, I'll risk my life to stop the enemy. If I'm in a cannon fighter and its against a D3A, heck yes I'll do it if I want to.
What you need to realize is that this whole HO debate just comes down to the whole thrones and stools situation. Pilots who think HO'ing is low will sit on their thrones saying that they're better than those who HO; those on the stools so to say.
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rgr chal tell escobar1 i said hey for me
:aok
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This may be strange to some, but...here i' goes...i find myself prefering to shoot at the end of the emy that DOESN'T have gunz pointed at me. *whew*
Now if it's aplane that has no gun in front, then yes, if i punch it in the nose it will bleed.
I will HO it.
If it's a Bomber formation. then yes, I will rip that cockpit apart as best I can.
I will HO it.
If sum bugga is pissin me off in a a6m thinkin he's the **** with his maneuveurs and what not, blastin my allies away. Then yes I will up my 110g2 and I will swat 'em out of the sky.
I will HO it.
now..
After the initial moves, yeah, if you're pointed at me, and I'm pointed at you, I'm coming down on the trigger everytime... Thats not an HO.
I find myself in this position more often then I'd like to be.
Yeah...and some guys have gotten very good at ruddering out of the slipstream and laying bullets on front of your nose off merge. Is that still an HO?
This I would very much like to learn. I've seen it happen (to me, lol) If sumone has intruction on how, plz PM them.
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Originally posted by goldelks
thanks everyone for ur imput my original questions still hasnt been answered exactly but all this info does help a lot
This is just a question but do you ever get the felling that some guys come into a fight just looking to Ho "Head on" some on? Is it becouse its the only way they can get a kill......think its funny....or what?
Yes ... I get the feeling that some guys come into a fight just looking to HO.
I believe it's because it's the only way they can get a kill due to their lack of knowledge of BCM or ACM.
That's my input
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Originally posted by Kurt
For the purpose of HO whining, I disagree... If we have already merged and are now into our fight, a front on shot is valid.
I realize that from the strict definition this is a head on. What I'm saying is that AFTER the first merge if you cry out 'That n00b HO'd me' - Then you're just a sore loser.
HO in the whining about it context means shooting in the merge. I do not do that unless you shot first and I believe I have the guns to do the job.
That simply was my definition of what the conditions are for an HO, and if the trigger is pulled ... then an HO has occured.
It was not defining the conditions when one could legally whine about an HO.
I have yet to ever whine about an HO ... no matter what the conditions were. At times I am disappointed, but can't bring myself to whine about it ... I just jump into my NEW airplane and get back to the action. Whining accomplishes NOTHING.
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A valid HO? I'm upping from a base on the coast where the fighter hangers have been wacked and there is an enemy CV 15 miles out - I up an a20 with 8 x 500lb bombs and try to do what I can to save the base.
I get up to about 5K when I spy a Seafire and an F4F coming at me head on - the Seafire is only 3.0K out, so I set course for him and he obliges by coming right at me. At 800 I open up with my .50s and saw his wing off while I take a couple of 20mm hits and my left engine starts losing oil.
The F4F, seeing this, does the smart thing and peels left to swing around and get on my tail. At this point, I'm just entering CV ack, and knowing it is more important to get my bombs out on target than it is to try to start a turnfight with an F4F, I outdive him to target, level at 1000 ft and start dropping bombs. The CV ack dutifully blows me to shreds, but I do get a couple of hits and take out a load of guns.
Am I guilty of an HO - yup. I don't feel bad about it a little bit here, because my objective is to get bombs on the CV, and that objective is accomplished. The tactic itself isn't the problem, its just when and how it is used that people should take more into consideration.
If I'm in an LA7 (God forbid), and my mission is air superiority, I'm likely to be doing some B&Z through a furball somewhere. Should I HO there - probably not unless I absolutely have to, because 1 ping in my engine or a pilot wound and my mission is over. Better to B&Z down from the rear quarter and give someone a 20mm enema, pull back up and wait for my next opportunity. I can HO and probably get a kill (maybe while being killed), or I can be smart and have a shot to get multiple kills, and maybe even land them.
There are times you want to take the Head On shot - if you are in a ride that is just plain outclassed by the opposition (say 110 on a Spit), if you are new to the game and not that confident you'll get another chance, or maybe even if you are wounded, leaking oil, gas or otherwise certain you aren't going to be in the air much longer anyway. In those cases, go ahead - take the shot, if I'm giving you the opportunity, it's my fault if I get blown away by it.
The situation should dictate the tactics - if your tactics are only HO passes, then you are limiting yourself and failing to learn. In the end, that is bad for you and good for me - you'll get some kills, but I'm more likely to accomplish my objectives.
EagleDNY
(An unrepentant base porker who will HO you to accomplish his evil plans for world domination - be warned) ;)
$.02
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your kinda young to be looking for the true meaning of a ho arnt you ?????
ps im telling your mom you talikn like a sailor
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ARRGGG Ron yes se be knowin i got me a sailor month on me.:p
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ok then ho s it is, just for the sake of it ,ho will never go away many find its a easy kill or at least the odds are in your fav
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rgr
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I try not to HO in most planes accept for the 1l2 and 110. I never Ho in a 1 vs 1 unless i see the other guy is staying merge for merge with me and trying to ho me which happened last night when i was in a spit16 against a 9, then i had to ho him back because the slower you go the harder it is to dodge a ho.
I dont understand why when u are outnumbered o say 5 to 1 people try to ho you but i dont mind because i want to ho them back when im that outnumbered.
I'd say 90% of the arena ho's but if your in a fight with someone that doesnt ho that probably means the are a pretty good stick.
P.S.
if i see some one coming straight at me depending on what mood im in i might ho him back.
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Accepting a HO is basically a 50-50 scenario.
There are many, MANY, players in this game who consider themselves successful to get one kill every other sortie.
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Originally posted by Edbert1
[opinion]
Too many folks learned to play multiplayer games via Doom/Quake/UT or some other point-at-the-enemy-and-fire games. They take the lessons they learned there and point the nose at the enemy and fire without regard to angles, ACM, or even BFM.
[/opinion]
my best buddy has some new PS2 game about pacific fighters....
total gamey, and lame, i could almost not fly it, and the "AI" does nothing other than HO pass, then turn to do it again itself. they will get behind you, but only with flat turns and extension.
all he knows to do is when the "gunsight" lights up red saying the target is in he fires, HO full on from 1000's of yards out on first pass. there is no ammo limit, so guns a blazing he goes.
:( :confused:
he is interested in AH, but wife will never let him play an online game, let alone pay for one, so he enjoys what he gets. comming over by my place, he tries to fly AH every now and then but he has yet to hit a drone with a bullet in a tailing situation (in 3+ years of sporadically trying) it's so frustrating he either augers or pulls away and comes in HO a blazing until he shoots one. :(
didn't see this post until i did mine...
Originally posted by Edbert1
Accepting a HO is basically a 50-50 scenario.
There are many, MANY, players in this game who consider themselves successful to get one kill every other sortie.
more truth in that that most here know.