Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Maverick on November 05, 2001, 02:07:00 PM
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All,
Quite a few of us say we support our troops in this and all conflicts. many don't have any idea how they can tangibly do so. There is an organization that exists to let you reach out and help support a soldier in a real and meaningful way. This isn't empty flag waving or posting mere messages on a bbs most soldiers never see. This is a way to lend your support for real.
A web site known as adoptasoldier.com lets you have a way to write to a particular soldier on active duty. This means you can help let them know they are supported and that someone cares about them. You sign up and this organization will pair you up with a soldier that might not otherwise get ANY mail from home. remember these men and women are usually far from home and the familiar world they knew. They may be in harms way or prepping for it. They need to have some contact from the homeland that lets them know they are appreciated and that someone gives a damn about them.
Please sign up and help them through this tough time. If you are a vet, use your experiance to mentor a junior soldier. They often need someone to talk to and express themselves whare they can't in the unit. Give them te advantage of YOUR experiance and help them to succeed.
Here is the web address again. Sorry I don't know how to post a link. Perhaps another more puter literate person could do that on this thread.
www.adoptasoldier.com (http://www.adoptasoldier.com)
PS I signed up today after seeing the service was back up. It was discontinued briefly over the anthrax scare. :(
(http://13thtas.com/mav13sig.jpg)
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Hiya,
I signed up, But being in the UK i'm not sure if i'll be eligable (if that's the right word)
Ohh crikey i can't remember the exact date but i dunno 3yrs or just over i found FA (fighter ace) and i ran into a few problems with pc etc etc
Well this kind guy emailed me and talked me through different settings etc etc
Well he was in saudi and we emailed occasionally after that with watermelon chat about pc's and sims etc
He like a few that know me found me to be cheerful and happy-go-lucky and it was nice to kinda cheer him up with odd english humour lol
Nice idea i say and a novel concept :)
Have Fun
(soldier was called Johnson Philips, so if ya reading this m8 email me as i lost yours ages ago :( ) he he
Ciao
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You U.S Guys ever quit??
I aint Antiamerican, and i suffer as much as anyone in the world from the events of the morning 9-11.
But dont this just go a bit too far, even for US taste?
Schoolgirls writing poems to soldiers in a war, currently about 20k+ bombing of country that is among the 10 poorest in the world? Carpet bombing alleged "terrorist" positions, and projecting a war power, designed to strike on a enemy of similar strenght, onto a country that has no way of defending itself?
Even you US guys has to had been tought in school, that you do not strike a blow on people that is lying? Or is that considered fair in your country?
Or do you fail to see that the strikes (unproportionally) inflicted onto you is a direct result of the mentality you show? Its not a strike upon the free world, nor is it a strike on US democracy, but a strike from below from people that see the US (righteously) as a power that in their world mainly represents war, political instability, geoeconomical unfairness and, as a fact, state-sanctioned terrorism.
Seriously, that page could have been deviced by Mr Goebbels, its not a single step behind what left the guys in the WWII german war propaganda offices...
pwwwwwwwweeeeew
This world... :(
/stomp out
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Stomper...let me see how I can phrase this....PISS OFF.
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Stow it stomper.
You think that writing letters to US servicemen is the same thing as Nazi propoganda? These are our friends, brothers, husbands (not me, smartasses), fathers... even if you don't support the war, you can't argue with supporting these men and women who put their lives on the line.
You can pretend that we can't retaliate up to the day that this toejam touches you directly, then you can support going after these bastards, and I won't even say 'I told you so'.
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great minds think alike :)
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In a friendly and more civil fashion, let me elaborate;
As formerly said; I aint anti-US, nor do i think you deserved what happened 9-11, that was way out, to far and whatever you want. I agree totally. I also think that a reprisal is in place, or rather; not possible to avoid. Sadly.
However.
Its not hard for me as a non-US citizen to see why this happens to your state of all. (bear in mind the above stated about "not deserving"...) The politics used by US administrations through time has been, to underestimate, very brutish indeed. Goverment have been overthrown, people have been killed, raped, murdered and so on by or as a direct sequel of your administrations actions and policies. This is common knownledge once you get outside US. Ask any southern american, arab, non-US muslim and a great deal of the europeans what they think of US foreign policies. Ask the Serb widowers, ask the Palestinian mothers, the Somalian orphans and the people admitted to the hospitals that were buffed in afghanistan. The world is not very pleased with the current state of a moral-majority, world-policing one-state superpower dictating life and death decisions in a land US citizens never heard of. And to that add that the admin in that very state is of disputable democratic origin, mind you.
Thats my 2 pennies, and i have taken no mischeif from the very degrading remarks that (so often) seem to emanate from members of your community when somebody wont agree with the general points of views presented.
Democracy, liberty of speech, freedom...
For all i thought that phrase meant.
Happy to hear your input on this, as i am rally interested in your view.
/stomp
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Sometimes the things people say deserve nothing more than a hearty 'piss off'.
Swedish neutrality both gives you an easy pedastal from which to point out the shortcomings of others, but protects you from the acts that would make you understand why your view is fundamentally flawed.
People are people, the US gov't isn't perfect, but we take a stand, we help where we can, and we take care of our own.
As I said, if someday, gone unchecked or not, this violence catches up with you, I think you will sing a different tune... at least if your morals are determined by experience and study, and not by empty idealism.
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Originally posted by stomper3:
Democracy, liberty of speech, freedom...
For all i thought that phrase meant.
No one is preventing you from posting your views. You did just that. Just do not expect accolades when you are talking nonsense.
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Kratzer, mietla, if you don't have a counter point...just say so.
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Feel free to dismiss any arguments you don't like without explanation, and we'll feel free to ignore your dismissals.
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Thrawn, I believe the point is, he's full of toejam. His post doesn't belong in this thread. If he wants to spout about the "Big Bad Evil United States" he can do it elsewhere. What exactly is your counterpoint?
He writes "Carpet bombing alleged "terrorist" positions, and projecting a war power, designed to strike on a enemy of similar strenght, onto a country that has no way of defending itself?"
Nothing alleged about it, they support terrorism. They should be more careful of the bedfellows they keep. We will use that power we need to use to minimize our own losses while maximizing the damage to them...that's just sound defense policy.
He writes "Even you US guys has to had been tought in school, that you do not strike a blow on people that is lying? Or is that considered fair in your country?"
I'm not sure WTF that is supposed to mean.
He goes on "Or do you fail to see that the strikes (unproportionally) inflicted onto you is a direct result of the mentality you show? Its not a strike upon the free world, nor is it a strike on US democracy, but a strike from below from people that see the US (righteously) as a power that in their world mainly represents war, political instability, geoeconomical unfairness and, as a fact, state-sanctioned terrorism."
Mentality we show? You mean because we value personal freedom and have an honest desire to see the world's people enjoy personal freedom that we deserved to be attacked? We represent State-sanctioned terrorism? That's just talk straight from the ass.
In short, I saw no points in his blabbering that deserved a counter point. It's very easy to sit back in a neutral country and criticize us for being proactive in world affairs. Someone has to do it, we can't all be neutral and live in isolation. Someday those countries might need our help and then they will conveniently forget what a bad and evil country the United States is. I don't recall Sweden making any concerted effort to stop world terrorism. Until they do they have nothing to critique our efforts on.
So bascially, after wasting all that typing, it brought me back to my original post. No one asked for your opinion, if you don't like it, move on...basically...piss off.
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Originally posted by mietla:
...do not expect accolades when you are talking nonsense.
Thrawn,
Which part of my point have you missed?
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Kratzer, mietla...roadkill. Feel free to ignore my dismissal
Raubvogel,
His post doesn't belong in this thread. If he wants to spout about the "Big Bad Evil United States" he can do it elsewhere.
Touche
You mean because we value personal freedom and have an honest desire to see the world's people enjoy personal freedom that we deserved to be attacked?
He said countless times that he felt the attack wasn't justified.
As formerly said; I aint anti-US, nor do i think you deserved what happened 9-11, that was way out, to far and whatever you want. I agree totally. I also think that a reprisal is in place, or rather; not possible to avoid. Sadly.
Alot of other countries value personal freedom and don't get attacked. American foreign policy in the middle-east isn't about trying to spread personal freedom and democracy. Look at all the dicator's and warlords the US has supported there...and still does. People and regimes with horrible human rights records. This is one of the reasons the people in the middle-east have such issues with the US.
We represent State-sanctioned terrorism?
I suppose you would call the mujahadeem "freedom fighters"? What about Castro or the Contras? Fine line between revelutionary and terrorist. All depends on if they're serving your interests I guess.
So bascially, after wasting all that typing, it brought me back to my original post. No one asked for your opinion, if you don't like it, move on...basically...piss off.
Of course if someone didn't like Stomper's opinion, they could have pissed off themselves.
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I think stomper would prefer we clubbed them with dull sticks.
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Stomper3, thanks for motivating me to get off my lazy butt and sign up with this program.
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I could get into the dull stick bit.
Send me.
:D
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So Thrawn... you are choosing not to explain your postion in regard to my point, or I didn't express myself monosyllabically enough for you to understand it? I could write it out with the magnets on my fridge, and send you a picture, if you think that would help.
On the other hand, if you simply don't have something valid to say about my point of view, you can continue to avoid admitting it. I promise, I won't tell.
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Stomper is a moron.... and Thrawn is quite simply a U.S. basher. Stomper evidently lives in a nation that is basicly reaping the rewards of freedom that other nations payed for in blood many years ago... some still are.
Thrawn is defending a terrorist organisation no matter WHAT he says. He is saying that we brought this on ourselves. That statement alone puts his pathatic bellybutton right there with them. He's a sickening reality we have to face. The world is full of individuals like him.
Hey Thrawn... if you and your buttbuddy there feel sooooo strongly about this hear the Taliban are looking for a few "good" men...LOL.
xBAT
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Stow it stomper.
You think that writing letters to US servicemen is the same thing as Nazi propoganda? These are our friends, brothers, husbands (not me, smartasses), fathers... even if you don't support the war, you can't argue with supporting these men and women who put their lives on the line.
Sorry for the delay Kratzer. I completely agree with this.
You can pretend that we can't retaliate up to the day that this toejam touches you directly, then you can support going after these bastards, and I won't even say 'I told you so'.
Nowhere does he say that he does't support retaliation. In fact he states that he DOES support it.
batdog,
Thrawn is defending a terrorist organisation no matter WHAT he says.
Are on drugs? That's right, don't judge me by what I ACTUALLY say...judge me using your incredible powers of telepathy.
He is saying that we brought this on ourselves.
Wrongo, I said that US foreign policy in the middle-east was a contributing factor. Tell me it wasn't.
That statement alone puts his pathatic bellybutton right there with them. He's a sickening reality we have to face. The world is full of individuals like him.
What state alone? The one you just made that is based on the fact that you can read my mind? Apparently your super powers include the amazing ability to read toejam that just isn't there.
Hey Thrawn... if you and your buttbuddy there feel sooooo strongly about this hear the Taliban are looking for a few "good" men...LOL.
Blow me, moron.
I still stand by the FACT that US foreign policy in the middle-east is not base on the freedom and democracy that you have at home. But on what is most expedicious. Hell the scantions against Pakistan, which is run by a military dictator were recently lifted. Was it because he suddenly became a sweet, loving guy? Or because it was expedicious?
Call me a terrorist lover until your blue in the face. It won't make me one, not will it change the facts. As far as being a US basher...roadkill again. I'm bashing US foreign policy in the middle-east? Is the sum of the US their foreign policy in the middle-east? Nope. For what it's worth I have friends that are Americans that feel the exact same way I do.
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Thrawn, the funny part is your attempt to intellectually argue a point (any point, it would seem) is shallower than anything else I've read here.
In case you've lost it amid your psuedo intellectual arguments (there must be another side after all, right?), we are going to kill the people trying to kill us. Period. If you help us kill the people trying to kill us (read: President Musharraf), you will find yourself better off than had you not done so.
Is that simply acting in our best intrests? You bet your frozen little insignificant bellybutton it is. And we will continue to do so. I'm sure some of your friends think we should embrace those trying to kill us and kill those trying to help us, perhaps next year we'll try it that way.
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In case you've lost it amid your psuedo intellectual arguments (there must be another side after all, right?), we are going to kill the people trying to kill us. Period.
Fine, got no problem with that.
And we will continue to do so. I'm sure some of your friends think we should embrace those trying to kill us and kill those trying to help us, perhaps next year we'll try it that way.
Never said you should try an embrace your enemies. I just don't want you to make a slew of new ones.
Do you think that US foreign policy in the middle-east has been based on democractic principle and personal freedom?
[ 11-06-2001: Message edited by: Thrawn ]
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You mean like allying ourselves with the likes of China and USSR simply to win a conflict?
Despite our later differences, I have to say I am pretty happy they were with us in WWII.
Keep looking for that crystal clear black and white world, it's out there somewhere Thrawn. Follow the little white bunny rabbits.
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And another thing...fight another gulf war would be the case without pakistan's help.
So if I get this correct you'd prefer we did not negotiate with a state like Pakistan, but instead did a full scale invasion of Afganistan? Sure, that's really likely to keep the death toll and our relations nice and keen :rolleyes:
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We support your country. We support stomper's country. We support the British, the French, the Germans... have there been some mistakes in our past? Sure, of course there have been, but those experiences are not the sum-total of American foreign policy, and can't be considered without also considering American successes.
Nowhere does he say that he does't support retaliation. In fact he states that he DOES support it.
Re-read his posts, he actually comes straight out and condemns the attacks. What is confusing you is that he says:
I also think that a reprisal is in place, or rather; not possible to avoid. Sadly.
That isn't 'support', that's recognition that there is in fact relaliation going on... read his first post. If it doesn't click, read it again - it is all in there, and plain to see.
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Very good link.
What do you think, is it OK to mail it to my friends from Serbia, who's homes were "flattened" in 1999?
Poor servicemen...
Even a better idea that came to me is to send it to Kavkaz-Press (www.kavkaz.org), to the brave freedom fighters who have all possible support from the Land of Brave and Free.
What? Not a good idea? Definetly. Servicemen are not responcible for the stupidity of their government. I'll better send it to Soviet vets of an Afghan war. If they don't mind sharing their experience.
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:rolleyes:
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Boroda, mail it to the families in Serbia whose husbands and sons were executed and buried in mass graves. Or, mail it to the thousands of women who were raped. Yes, the United States is big, bad, and evil. I don't know how we live with ourselves.
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Raubvogel, NATO saved a lot of money for Bin Laden bombing civilians to help terrorists he sponsored.
What amazes me is that they keep on fighting for the human rights of terrorists in Chechnya and Macedonia.
Terrorists that kill Serbs, Russians or Macedonians deserve all possible human rights, don't they? Only the terrorists who kill Americans must be destroyed at any cost.
BTW, what mass graves did you mean? AFAIK they didn't find any mass graves in Kosovo. I doubt that CNN told you that all investigations showed "mass graves" were a propaganda issue used to justify that bold and shameless agression against souverign state.
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As far as I know, Adopt a Soldier is about supporting American soldiers who maybe don't get much mail or support from home for whatever reason. What is it about this that bothers you people?
I wouldn't have any problem whatsoever with Russian people supporting Russian soldiers this way, or with Swedish people supporting Swedish soldiers (are there any?)
Of course, we wouldn't expect people from other countries to be involved in supporting US soldiers, but why all the rancor?
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Gunthr, I really think it could be great if Soviet veterans could share their experience with Americans who are to fight on the ground in Afghanistan.
Or even VVS shturmovik or helicopter aces who had great experience breaking mojaheds supply lines and storming their bases.
Is there any kind of censorship on that site to prevent US servicemen from recieving hate-mails from, say, Chechen "freedom fighters"?
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Next thing we know, Boroda will be telling us that Stalin didn't kill anyone, and how swell a guy he wa... oh wait, never mind, he already did.
I stand by my earlier statement: :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by stomper3:
You U.S Guys ever quit??
I aint Antiamerican, and i suffer as much as anyone in the world from the events of the morning 9-11.
But dont this just go a bit too far, even for US taste?
Schoolgirls writing poems to soldiers in a war, currently about 20k+ bombing of country that is among the 10 poorest in the world? Carpet bombing alleged "terrorist" positions, and projecting a war power, designed to strike on a enemy of similar strenght, onto a country that has no way of defending itself?
Even you US guys has to had been tought in school, that you do not strike a blow on people that is lying? Or is that considered fair in your country?
Or do you fail to see that the strikes (unproportionally) inflicted onto you is a direct result of the mentality you show? Its not a strike upon the free world, nor is it a strike on US democracy, but a strike from below from people that see the US (righteously) as a power that in their world mainly represents war, political instability, geoeconomical unfairness and, as a fact, state-sanctioned terrorism.
Seriously, that page could have been deviced by Mr Goebbels, its not a single step behind what left the guys in the WWII german war propaganda offices...
pwwwwwwwweeeeew
This world... :(
/stomp out
First off let me state how incensed I am that you chose this thread to hijack to spew your slander and bias. For that alone you deserve a "piss up a rope" reply.
Now for the nonsense you wrote.
You aren't un American?!?!?! Your first paragraphs were a study in sarcasm and derision about our response to a political entity that declared war and then struck at the defenseless using the helpless as weapons. This same entity has declared ALL U.S. citizens everywhere to be a valid target for military action. This is a declaration of unconditional warfare. What part of this, in your thoughts, is justifiable and a measured aproach to solving a conlict? What part of this fits in the Geneva accords?
Our military response was taken after warnings. It was taken after identifying who we were after. It was taken after we gave notice we wanted those responsible for the atacks. It was taken after those who harbor, aid ad assist the terrorists refused to cooperate. The responses have been cvery measured, specific and done with every possible safeguard to AVOID hitting noncombatants. we did not declare all Afghanis as targets. We did no decide to strike and destroy their country. We did not refuse to CONTINUE the aid to their citizens inspite of their countries leadership declaring a "jihad" against America. America was the country that provided the majority of aid and food to that country BEFORE Sept 11th. Where was YOUR countries contribution in this endeavor?
Oh BTW, you suffered as much as anyone over 9/11/01????? roadkill plain and simple. You havent suffered a damn thing. Your country wasn't attacked. Your citizens were not declared as targets including women, children and aged. Your property wasn't damaged and economy targeted by these cowardly animals.
Yep school girls ARE writing poems to soldiers cunducting raids targeted on MILITARY targets, ie. taliban front line positions. Of course they are above 20k as that is the best and most efficient method of conducting the attack. I suppose since this is syuce a BIG country attacking a small poor country we should do so with our hands tied. Would that make it fair in your mind?? Here's a clue, we do not intend to "make it a fair fight" any more than we did in Desert Storm. A "fair fight" only leads to more casualties as the fighting goes on longer than necessary. It will be a far shorter and less bloody conflict if overwhelming military force is applied to end the damn thing. The faster the taliban and al queda give up the faster the attacks will cease. Get a clue.
Your attempt to justify the actions of these cowards was particulary moving in it's absurdity. The main protagonist, bin ladin has repeatedly stated this was a war against the west. It is a war of Islam against all "outsiders", infidels and nonbelievers. His idea of a government is one that enslaves their women, denies education outside of "religous" training, (his version only as well), denial of the advances of technology and medicine and a closeting of his "people" from the rest of the world. Now exactly in this scenario how is his country expected to flourish economically and politically? How are they going to be a global partner in everyday activities??? They are destroying any chance they have to be a player in the economic activities of the world.
About geopolitical instability. Where do you get this from?? Are you commenting that we have backed various factions in that part of the world that had, shal we say, less than stellar backgrounds?? Exactly how do you figure we should have acted? With whom should we have treated? Does it not occur to you that there may have been NO ONE in the position to govern that was above reproach? Did you think that we might have been restrained in our (government's) choices by what was there? Of course hind sight is always best versus working with incomplete information, particularly for an arm chair general or better yet one who was not even in the area.
In the case of political instability, there was hardly any need for U.S. involvement to cause that. There was plenty to go around before we got involved. I suppose trying to bring various political entities together in a peace conferance was a bad move. Perhaps we shouild just sit back and let all entities fight amoungst themselves and then treat with the winner. Perhaps trying to negotiate treaties between warring nations was causing instability in your mind.
As for the last thing you said about equating the web site to nazi propaganda and goebels work. I think you need to seriously look at nazi propaganda and goebels works. This website has NO government support. It has no funding by the nation. It is a private work in support of our troops. It does not make policy. It does not effect policy. It tries to gain home support for individual soldiers who would be far more alone without it. It is also for U.S. troops and does not ask for YOUR support so feel free to abstain from participating. You will certainly not be missed.
Now the last thing I want to comment on in your post. The "rightous" bit. Mayor Guliani said it best. Let me paraphrase. There is no justification for the murder of innocent civilians as a means of making a political point.
Our response to this cowardly act has been extremely moderated. We have not done wholesale bombing of civilian areas. We have not carpet bombed the infrastructure of Afghanistan. Yes there have bee civilian casualties. This is somewhat inevitable given the taliban using their own citizens as shields for equipment and troops. There have been few instances of bombs going astray and they were acknowledged by the U.S. as non intentional acts. This is particularly clear given the ability of our militaries capability to rain destruction upon them. Had we desired to do so we certainly could have caused much much more damage than we have.
Now as another said so eloquently in another post, go piss off. I have spent far more time on you than your nonsense desreved.
(http://www.13thtas.com/mav13sig.jpg)
To others, I aplogise for grmatical and spelling errors.
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Thrawn... our middle eastern policy is one of self interest. Yes... thats right... US self interest. It is a major broker to the western civilzation as a source of energy.
I'm going to quit throwing personal assults because frankly I dont KNOW you from "jack". Its just to easy to start screaming on-line w/out civility and some rationality.
Oh... in case you havent noticed it, the Bush administration has said some of our policies are going to be examined in the middle east. I really dont see much change though except to lean on Isreal to perhaps go with a solution for the Palastinians.
Maverik.. being an ex-grunt (11b1p) I can attest to how cool it is to get mail, any mail.
Stomper is still a diddlying moron in my eyes and I hope he blurts his crap to some redkneck American so he gets his pissy little tie-die bellybutton beat into the ground. Oh... and yea... thats the AMERICAN way of dealing with problems.
xBAT
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Thanks for answers, i was hoping for a maningful discussion, that would enlighten me and yourselves alike.
Let me reprise;
Stomper is a moron.... and Thrawn is quite simply a U.S. basher. Stomper evidently lives in a nation that is basicly reaping the rewards of freedom that other nations payed for in blood many years ago... some still are.
The world has a history even before the Unisted States of America entered the scene. Not only U.S.A. has payed in blood for freedom and democracy.
We support your country. We support stomper's country. We support the British, the French, the Germans... have there been some mistakes in our past? Sure, of course there have been, but those experiences are not the sum-total of American foreign policy, and can't be considered without also considering American successes.
Did we ask of your support? In what way then? through UN mayhap? Diplomatic connections?
Your attempt to justify the actions of these cowards was particulary moving in it's absurdity. The main protagonist, bin ladin has repeatedly stated this was a war against the west. It is a war of Islam against all "outsiders", infidels and nonbelievers. His idea of a government is one that enslaves their women, denies education outside of "religous" training, (his version only as well), denial of the advances of technology and medicine and a closeting of his "people" from the rest of the world. Now exactly in this scenario how is his country expected to flourish economically and politically?
It is exactly this kind of opininons I object to: Is it your thing to say what they want? If so; why? What are your evidence for this? It is placed beyond "reasonable doubt" that these items are factual? Isnt that the demand you make on evidence in your own country?
Mayor Guliani said it best. Let me paraphrase. There is no justification for the murder of innocent civilians as a means of making a political point.
My point exactly!!
He is saying that we brought this on ourselves.
Wrongo, I said that US foreign policy in the middle-east was a contributing factor. Tell me it wasn't.
My ponit exactly!!
We represent State-sanctioned terrorism?
I suppose you would call the mujahadeem "freedom fighters"? What about Castro or the Contras? Fine line between revelutionary and terrorist. All depends on if they're serving your interests I guess.
Exactly, should we go after terrorists, I say we do it good. Start in the Pentagon.
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Thrawn, I believe the point is, he's full of toejam. His post doesn't belong in this thread. If he wants to spout about the "Big Bad Evil United States" he can do it elsewhere. What exactly is your
counterpoint?
Punt, doesnt belong here. Interesting though to share thoughts and partake in the ways you guys think. I dont spout about BBEUS, i merely state that you might have brought this upon yourself through offensive foreign policies.
Mentality we show? You mean because we value personal freedom and have an honest desire to see the world's people enjoy personal freedom that we deserved to be attacked? We represent State-sanctioned terrorism? That's just talk straight from the ass.
"...honest desire to see the world`s people enjoy personal freedom"?? This is plain dumb. Your foreign policies aren`t a bit about seeing the world`s population to liberty, no more then are the foreign policies of Sweden, Britain or other. You often have a way of telling people what they want, don`t you?
Nice to hear your thoughts on all this. Keep on scribbling.
/stomp out
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Exactly, should we go after terrorists, I say we do it good. Start in the Pentagon.
??!!? Someday your country might need our help. Don't worry, we'll still come despite the best efforts of morons like you.
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I hope honest to god that Sweden will never need help. If we need it though i hope we can get it through the UN, not through the US admin without UN support. I`d like to keep our democratically chosen government, not one that fits the current US foreign policy (as nowadays Northen Alliance is more popular then the Talibans, hance we change.)
/stomp out
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Originally posted by stomper3:
i merely state that you might have brought this upon yourself through offensive foreign policies.
This is the most ridiculous thing you have said so far... I bet you claim that women invite men to rape them through the clothes they wear too.
We aren't terrorizing the Afghan people, we are striking targets that will affect our ultimate goal of the deaths of the people responsible for these acts.
The only thing in this thread that looks like propoganda is your claim that we are carpet bombing innocent civilians. In every war civilians are killed, but if you look at reports, even from Afghanistan, there have NOT been extensive civilian casualties - this is simply because we aren't bombing cities.
Whatever reason that these sick individuals used as justification of their killing of 5,000 US and international civilians is inconsequential to both this action, and the soldiers (both US and international) who are fighting this action.
Your idealism is hollow, because it is based on intellectual rhetoric, and not on the hard and sometimes unpleasant truth of the experience. What has your country had to worry about this century? Your neutrality has kept you safe, but without choosing a side, you choose nothing, and can't understand a country that takes a stand, and tries to make a difference.
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Whatever reason that these sick individuals used as justification of their killing of 5,000 US and international civilians is inconsequential to both this action, and the soldiers (both US and international) who are fighting this action.
So there should be no reasoning involved in killing people?
I merely say that your involvment with the people of the Arab world hasn`t made you poular down there. Your "Trying to instill democracy and freedom" involuntary to these countries just might turn people a bot antiamerican. The practise of attackin 3rd world countries gets you terrorism as an answer.
Which western coutries have been subjected to terrorism in any scale??
Israel
Britain
France
U.S.
Guess why?
I`d say they all been trying to "give people democracy and liberty" in Palestine, Syriah, Jordania, N. Ireland, India, Pakistan, Marocco, Algeria, Vietnam, Korea, Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Somalia and last in the row Afghanistan.
That brings you enemies, if something does.
America; get the message from the Arab world; Go home!
/stomp out
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Stomper, here are som elinks to info I was aluding to in my post. Read it for yourself. Please note that I did not pick all US sources.
Education of girls and boys. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2001380014-2001381805,00.html (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2001380014-2001381805,00.html)
One of bin ladens speeches about Islam vs te rest of the world. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2001310020-2001350363,00.html (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2001310020-2001350363,00.html)
A womans perspective on life under taliban rules. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2001/11/06/MN59174.DTL (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2001/11/06/MN59174.DTL)
A web site from a womans perspective about Afghanistan and the taliban. The revolutionary association of the women of Afghanistan. Interesting to note not all info related to women. I saw an article about the ruling from the taliban that all men must have a beard and of a minimum length. Jail is the consequences of shaving or trimming it. http://rawa.fancymarketing.net/index.html (http://rawa.fancymarketing.net/index.html)
There are others. You find them. I'm tired of doing your research for you. I have wasted far more time on you than you deserve.
(http://13thtas.com/mav13sig.jpg)
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Stomper,
Taking a line from your last post.
Your posts have made you enemies on this bbs, get out.
Doesn't seem so nice now does it?
(http://www.13thtas.com/mav13sig.jpg)
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Maverick...funny thing is, no Afghan websites possible, cause no web available there. What this has to say to us; we need to be careful what info we trust. Mind you the info you provide is relayed through two of the three contrahents in this conflict.
Pretty unlikely it is unpartial.
check out www.indymedia.org (http://www.indymedia.org)
/stomp out
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LOL... Hello?
(he starts here)
Let me reprise;
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stomper is a moron.... and Thrawn is quite simply a U.S. basher. Stomper evidently lives in a nation that is basicly reaping the rewards of freedom that other nations payed for in blood many years ago... some still are.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The world has a history even before the Unisted States of America entered the scene. Not only U.S.A. has payed in blood for freedom and democracy.
(He goes back to smoking his peace pipe here)
Errr... did you read my statement you quoted? The line about "other nations".
Lordy... I dont think I need to say much more. You guys have hash houses there or something... cause it sure sounds like your smoking something w/your convolted logic.
Hehe... you ARE a moron.
xBAT
[ 11-06-2001: Message edited by: batdog ]
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Originally posted by batdog:
Oh... in case you havent noticed it, the Bush administration has said some of our policies are going to be examined in the middle east.
I'm afraid I missed it. But I'm overjoyed to hear it now.
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Which western coutries have been subjected to terrorism in any scale??
Israel
Britain
France
U.S.
Guess why?
Well, you asked. Might as well throw Germany, Spain, Italy, Austria, Czechoslavakia, Hungary, Poland...you get the picture.
The common thread being that they are countries of at least passing significance, whereas Sweden is just above Surinam.
I'm sure you're very proud of your foreign policy though.
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Stomper diddly off! Preferrably find a way to die as well while ur at it! :mad:
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Stomper you're not worth the keystrokes it would take to chew you out.
[ 11-07-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25214 (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25214)
As recently as 1998, the U.S. State Department recognized the KLA as a terrorist organization. But, during the Clinton administration, it became politically expedient, for whatever reason, for the U.S. and NATO to ally themselves with the KLA.
Ok. Need some other proof that US government still plays on the Bin Laden's side in the Balkans? I have more links.
Hate to say it - but you, ordinary American people now rip what that brass-hats in DC sowed.
Now - keep on throwing toejam at me and Stomper. Or better try to think not only according to your current "party line".
Raubvogel, I can't wait to see any information about mass graves in Kosovo.
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Boroda... your agenda is clear. Flame and stir as much crap as possiable. Your on the same level as that fool Stomper. Your a blatent anti-us flag burning moron whom no doubt in your drunken rage would set themselves on fire...
Your a troll... period.
As far as Stomper goes... I have seen an idiv w/that handle in AH. I wonder if this is the same indiv that posts here. If he feels so strongly about his crap he spews here I feel that the rest of the arena should be made aware of it. I hope he reaps what he sows...
xBAT
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Originally posted by batdog:
Boroda... your agenda is clear. Flame and stir as much crap as possiable. Your on the same level as that fool Stomper. Your a blatent anti-us flag burning moron whom no doubt in your drunken rage would set themselves on fire...
Your a troll... period.
As far as Stomper goes... I have seen an idiv w/that handle in AH. I wonder if this is the same indiv that posts here. If he feels so strongly about his crap he spews here I feel that the rest of the arena should be made aware of it. I hope he reaps what he sows...
xBAT
Burn the witch !
Burn !
feeling better now ?
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Hiya's,
Did a long post touching on Gunthr's post about adopt a soldier being for people whom may not have any family to communicate to
Also did a lot on N/Ireland to try to educate a certain guy that mentioned them in a post
But i looked at ADD REPLY and thought WTF why should i stoop so low as to be brought down to a low level of slagging off/flaming anothers post
And why should i give ammo to pillocks that only spout negative stuff for their own interests
Hence i deleted post n added the above
Sad to see some just have to jump in to post NEGATIVE stuff all the time
Keep on dragging yourself/ves down, Ya never know soon you may touchdown from cloud 9 to earth (reality)
Have Fun
Def
EDITED "fropm to from, Just near "touchdown-cloud 9"" silly typo
[ 11-07-2001: Message edited by: Defiance ]
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Kosovo Locations of Mass Graves-Reported or Found (http://www.reliefweb.int/w/map.nsf/wPreview/8B9E5167D4C41E80852569EC005C9B1B?Opendocument)
BBC Report On Some Mass Graves (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/europe/newsid_368000/368524.stm)
US State Department Report (http://www.state.gov/www/global/human_rights/kosovoii/homepage.html)
On November 10, 1999, ICTY Chief Prosecutor Carla Del Ponte told the U.N. Security Council that her office had received reports of more than 11,000 killed in 529 reported mass grave and killing sites in Kosovo. The Prosecutor said her office had exhumed 2,108 bodies from 195 of the 529 known mass graves. This would imply about 6,000 bodies in mass graves in Kosovo if the 334 mass graves not examined thus far contain the same average number of victims. To this total must be added three important categories of victims: (1) those buried in mass graves whose locations are unknown, (2) what the ICTY reports is a significant number of sites where the precise number of bodies cannot be counted, and (3) victims whose bodies were burned or destroyed by Serbian forces. Press accounts and eyewitness accounts provide credible details of a program of destruction of evidence by Serbian forces throughout Kosovo and even in Serbia proper. The number of victims whose bodies have been burned or destroyed may never be known, but enough evidence has emerged to conclude that probably around 10,000 Kosovar Albanians were killed by Serbian forces.
Reuters Report Puts Total At 4000 Dead On September 18 (http://www.serbianna.com/discussions/messages/245.html)
"In Kosovo itself, the southern province with an ethnic Albanian majority now under international rule, investigators have recovered more than 4,000 bodies at more than 400 sites."
Those Lying Buggers At The UN :rolleyes: (http://www.un.org/peace/kosovo/news/99/aug99_1.htm#Anchor105/)
UN forensic experts uncover evidence of torture at mass grave site in Kosovo.
AUGUST 4 -- After visiting a Kosovo mass grave where evidence of torture has been uncovered, Special Representative of the Secretary-General Dr. Bernard Kouchner said on Wednesday that international investigation of such sites was absolutely crucial for preventing violence in the future.
Speaking to the press after a visit to the site near Suvido, Mitrovica, Dr. Kouchner, who leads the UN Interim Administrative Mission in Kosovo (UNMIK), stressed that the investigations carried out by international forensic experts and doctors was vital to the fight for human rights.
Documentation of the site - the largest now being reviewed by the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTY) -- would help establish an indispensable historical record of the violent events in Kosovo, Dr. Kouchner said.
Dominique Lecomte, head of the ICTY team of investigators, who joined Dr. Kouchner at the press briefing, said that the probe showed evidence that many of the victims had been tortured.
During the last 10 days, the ICTY team has uncovered 72 graves. According to UNMIK, some 40 to 50 bodies have been exhumed and autopsied. Relatives in the area have already identified some of the victims.
Those Lying Buggers At NATO (http://www.nato.int/docu/facts/2000/kosovo-ff.htm)
"Kosovo - facts and figures
(as of 27 November 2000)
Evidence of Mass Killings - Mass Graves:
According to Carla del Ponte, the ICTY chief prosecutor, 526 mass graves have been identified in Kosovo and more than 4,000 bodies have been exhumed. Investigators have found evidence that, in some cases, bodies were removed from mass grave sites before the arrival of international teams."
CNN Article By Human Rights Watch Deputy Director (http://www.cnn.com/2001/LAW/06/columns/fl.mariner.kosovo.06.20/)
"Exhumations continued the following year, with 1,577 bodies and 258 incomplete remains discovered. In two years, the prosecutor concluded, the tribunal teams had found "almost 4,000 bodies or parts of bodies." She added that an accurate estimate of the dead was impossible "because of deliberate attempts to burn the bodies or to conceal them in other ways."
***************
Just a few to get you started....... I'm sure your search engine can turn up many more.
Now your turn Boroda... go ahead and tell us it was all faked and these folks are all lying.
[ 11-07-2001: Message edited by: Toad ]
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Hello!
Did you realize that the start of this treat was initiate only to provocate us and this threat is relatively useless???
:D
Anybody know stomper is wrong, so why waste energy into replies???
The only thing he do is steal our time...
If you allow this kind of stomper guys to steal you 5 minutes every day with answer such ah... crazy post and you become 75 years old you waste 2.281,25 minutes of your life with this...
Anyway, Im of to my girl-friend now waste my time with....you know what :D
Jv44 (Andreas)
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Shit...sorry....
The start of this treat not was stomper, also it was a good idea....
I mean only all the rplies to stomper was not worth the time you spend working on it....Ups.... :D
Andreas
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If you saw what else I had to do at work, you would see that it WAS worth my time :)
S! Toad - good links.
Boroda, did you ever think that the reason we support some groups thought of as 'terrorists' by some other groups, and not others, is that we judge cases on an individual basis, and make our determination based on the actual situation? :rolleyes:
Thank god for instant Graemlins... i'd hate to have to type rolleyes so many times...
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Lol Kratzer...
so whats your work?...
...just hope it is not to hit with a hammer on the 4000kg Us blossom bomb and mark the dude one with chalk.... :D
Jv44 (Andreas)
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Hello...
Just be all a little nicer to stomper, please....
Why?
This poor guy is out of sweden...
Heres some facts about....
1. All girls in sweden are blonde...
2. A package cigarettes cost 15 US$
3. A bottle good whisky cost 70 US$
4. half a year is f***ing dark all the day, the other half is light all the day, so you cant sleep...
(Suicide rate in countrys with this constelation is +50% than rest of europe)
5. They have speed limits on highways....
(Ups, sorry Us, you have to, is germany the only country that granted freedom for the right foot???)
6. 10 month a year is freaking cold and these blond girls body is covered with so much clothes that you never know what you take home until unpack it...scary, isnt????
So, I think poor stomper is punished enough? Is not???
Only this whisky stuff alone will make me give back my passport .....
:D
If any other member here out of sweden feel offend about please sorry, this is satire... :D
Andreas (Jv44)
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It would seem that dogs like stomper & boroda consider the creation and distribution of dogshit to be a glorious pastime.
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Originally posted by JV44:
6. 10 month a year is freaking cold and these blond girls body is covered with so much clothes that you never know what you take home until unpack it...scary, isnt????
Andreas (Jv44)
LOL :D
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Now - keep on throwing toejam at me and Stomper. Or better try to think not only according to your current "party line".
...your not worth the toejam it would take to throw at you.
Tumor
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Throw sh*& at you? Hell... your both covered in it.
xBAT
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Originally posted by JV44:
so whats your work?...
Web development... its been slow lately, and I'm stuck in front of a screen with lots of time to squeak at all of you. :)
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Stomper you cant just sday all those hateful things about America then just cover yourself with,BTW oh Im not anti-American.
You hate America and all the freedoms and responsibilities it stands for, all your propaganda strikes of me of the standard studmuffingot socialist communist trash so common in comfy safe western european countries protected by USA power since WW2. You are pathetic.
PS, are you thinking of ways to die yet? Make sure to tell us how or even better post a webcam picture of you dying. I hope your death is very very difficult.
Note that this post is a "measured" demonstration of my utter hatred of you and your ideas. I only wish you and your kind suffereing and unhapiness for all time to come.
I hope you die soon and go to hell where ur ole uncle Osama will join u shortly and screw u hard up the bellybutton 24/7.
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Toad, hehe :) I thought you are still in hospital, otherwise I shouldn't post such things without serious backup. Now I have to look through some Western search engines.
Hope you are OK and the surgery was successful. Will drink for your health again ;)
You are the best disiplinating factor for me :)
Ok. Now some links on my side:
http://www.nando.com/world/story/74995p-1055220c.html (http://www.nando.com/world/story/74995p-1055220c.html)
And, this time from Serbian side:
http://www.kosovo.com/default.htm (http://www.kosovo.com/default.htm)
Toad, can you find any info about your parliament declaring KLA a terrorist organisation? Please, do me a favour.
Grunherz, your English lexicon is somehow one-sided. Next time you speak to me - please use Serbo-Croatian, it's much more expressive. Like Russian or any other Slavonic language.
Bolotnaya Krysa: ty slavno lopochesh po russki: padezhi, skloneniya i spryazheniya vse kak nado. Pravda, slovarniy zapas podkachal... Kak tol'ko vse eto pomeschaetsya v tvoem tuhlom zhbane, perepolnennom merzkimi chelovekonenavistnicheskimi ekskrementami, zlovonnym potokom lyuschimsya s ekrana tvoego yaschika!
Rekomenduyu akkuratno vvesti v zadniy prohod nebol'shogo ezha (bol'shoy tol'ko zhopu iskolet, a tolku ne budet). Tak skazat' - dlya stimulyatsii myslitel'noy deyatel'nosti v naibolee intellektual'noy chasti tvoego vskormlennogo buterbrodami s kotletami iz vtorichnogo produkta i vspoennogo razbavlennym gazirovkoy gutalinom organizma.
Dal'she mozhesh chitat' tol'ko posle tschatel'nogo ispolneniya vysheopisannoy protsedury.
Dovozhu do tvoego svedeniya chto pravila etoy konferencii ya chital, i ne tebe, martyshke-nedonosku, pozhiznennomu patsientu bol'nitsy dlya stradayuschih vodyankoy mozga otyagoschennoy nederzhaniem mochi i rasslableniem sfinkterov oligofrenov, ukazyvat' mne kuda i chto mne pisAt'.
Teper' mozhesh rasslabitsya i otsosat' u pozhilogo zaitsa. Tol'ko ne uvlekaysya, horoshen'kogo - ponemnogu.
Now - back to the topic. I don't agree with Stomper's attitude to that site. I find it very touching. I will always sympathise any serviceman from any nation fighting for his country.