Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: buscaglia on August 24, 2001, 05:36:00 PM
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I know what is the problem of Combat Teather Arena....or at least i think so :)..
I think it needs:
- Different and larger Planeset
- Field capture
An example, mid 1944 ETO arena
Allies:
- Spit5&9,P47d25&30,p38L,typh,p51b,p51D(perk)
- B17G,b26,Lancaster(Lanc based in Northern UK)
- M16, M3, LVTA2, LVTA4, PT boat
- warships and carriers (with seafire)
Axis:
- Me109F4, 109G2&G6,190a5&a8,Mc205 (http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/mc-202.html)
- Ju88, fw190F-8
- Panzer IV, M3, PT boat
- warships
Why?
many players were asking for a more complete and various planeset and vehicleset in CTA, especially for allies
Field capture is very important for many players: it gives you "a reason to fight" and shows who's winning the campain.
AH's planeset is particularly well suited for mid/late war teathers, where the allies were already on the offensive.
On the other side I've noticed that the majority of the players were happy of Arena Settings as they are now: short icons, radar sector counters only,radar unable to detect low planes (500 ft).
Other ideas of large planeset teathers:
- Philippines map->early 1944:ki61,zero,ju88,f4uD,f6f,lvt...
- Mediterranean map-> battle for Sicily (mid 1943):190a5,c205,sp5,p38,p47d-11,b26,b17....
Do you agree? Do you completely disagree? Any idea about planeset, map, teather?
[Please note: this thread was posted by Busc just as an AH player and a member of this comunity. I am not writing as a CM, but just as a player particularly interested in the developent of CTA. Also, obviously, there's nothing official in this.]
[ 08-24-2001: Message edited by: buscaglia ]
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S! Bus
Have a look at my post below: "Combat Theater lovers..."
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Eh, why does the Axis get the Seafire?
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Busc, read here: http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=36&t=000008 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=36&t=000008)
The planes will change every week I think.
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great, didnt know of that.
But...
- field capture?
- rateo of planeset change (i think planeset are staying up too long)
- we ve many maps, why not usin em more?
:) Lemme know wht u think about this issues... BuSc
PS seafire errror corrected
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Originally posted by buscaglia:
Field capture is very important for many players: it gives you "a reason to fight" and shows who's winning the campain.
Masses of AI bombers attacking strat targets on both sides would be a real good "reason to fight" :)
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Skurj
oh whats that down in my sig....
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S! Ago
I think it is very unlikely we will see `masses of AI bombers`, for the reason that it would eat a lot of server computing power.
More likely we would see things like V1 or V2 rockets, which have very simple AI behaviour when compared to Bombers.
Personally, I would like to see each player selecting a heavy bomber, be able to control a flight of 3, with each of the 2 AI bombers following his movements exactly. When they took enough damage, a separate AI program would kick in to make them glide down for a crash landing.
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how about introducing one of the new planes or vehicles to the CT first?
for maybe a few weeks so in order to fly it you need to go CT then later put it in MA.
This would at least encourage those that havent even looked in CT and dont realise how great the historically correct match-ups of the aircrafts are?
also i think a week per map is probably about right but maybe every 2 days or so add slightly later versions of the aircraft to the planeset.
the russian front could be good as at the start of the week it would simulate the overwhelming power of the LW but as the week goes on the russians gain in strengh and the LW start to run out of materials like fuel etc to simulate the turning of the war in the east? by the end of the week the best LW planes become available but are expensive perks whereas the russians are numerous and less costly? the balance would have to be done carefully but im sure it could be done quite easily.
of course it could be just done like 1st 2 days is 1943 planes 2nd 2 days 1944 planes and last 3 days 1945 planes.
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I'm not interested in field capture. For a pilot flying a mission the battle lines were effectively static. In WWII you flew your plane and did your mission and it didn't have a direct effect on the ground situation. It's fun for a MA situation, but not appropriate for a historical setup with the maps we are using.
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S! Funkedup
Actually not really affecting the war was generally only a Fighter pilot thing, and even then, outside of Europe, individual pilots did have effects.
Bomber pilots had big effects. Guy Gibson taking out the Roer river dams for example. And certain British Bomb leaders in the Mediterranean:
Wing Commander Pat Gibbs, leader of Malta's RAF anti-shipping strike force was responsible, or men flying with him under his command were responsible for sinking 75% of the Italian and German merchant ships trying to cross the Mediterranean to supply Rommel during Sept/Oct 1942. This led directly to Rommel's defeat at the battle of El Alamein in November due to lack of Fuel and Ammunition supply and replacement tanks.
'Buzz' Beurling, another Malta flyer, although he didn't know it at the time, killed two Regia Aeronautica Gruppo commanders in 3 days, something which caused the Italians to suspend their last big attack on Malta, and allowed British Bomber pilots like Gibbs to do their thing.
Individuals did have effects on the bigger picture.
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Originally posted by buscaglia:
- field capture?
This probably won't happen until 1.08 at the earliest. HTC needs to recode the way field captures affect what planes are available at a field after capture, otherwise Germans may capture a Brit field and have Spitfires available to fly.
I'm not too interested in field capture myself. I think day to day the server may change which fields are owned by each side to simulate movement of the front lines.
- rateo of planeset change (i think planeset are staying up too long)
Agreed. Two or three days per planeset would be good... a week is way too long for my short attention span. I'm ready to fly my jug already!! :)
- we ve many maps, why not usin em more?
Agreed, but I hope we will only use historical maps and not maps like the Beta terrain, ndisles (groan), or lake uterus. I would like to see Jihad's Philippines and an Ostfront/STalingrad type map used too. Oh yes, how could I forget the awesome Mediterranean terrain used in Afrika Korps!! Hurricanes vs Macchis!
And Hazed, that idea of releasing new planes in the CT first is evil I must say... it would surely to lure a few more bodies in the arena. :D
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Players NEED something VISIBLY obtainable.
a form of field capture or front line influence needs to be implemented, to help draw the crowds.
SKurj
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Uh. he said "direct effect", as in "field capture BS".
You can set up a new strat system, but if you emphasize capture the flag, then people will fly capture-the-flag profiles. Yawn
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A bit bigger planeset would help a lot.
From my experience in the CT, it is apparent to me that it's mainly LW guys who like the historical matchup - I and some squaddies have had to go Allied to even up the numbers.
I am not sure why it's not more popular - the planeset is more than adequate for me. I suspect it's because there's few late war supermonsters. Most MA players prefer those.
I think Busc is definitely on the rigth track - field captures I'm not a fan of, but some strat targets that could be killed - and once they reach a certain level, the war could be said to be "won". That way there'd be a purpose to the fighting.
Having said that; CT fights absolutely rock.
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If no base capture possible, I assume jagdbomber missions are useless then?
jabo is good, jabo is fun, jabo everyday!
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HTC needs to find a way to introduce a mandatory organized mission structure. No other company has figured out how to do this yet in a persistant arena. AW2 came close with their 'auto scenarios' but several issues made that a failure.
Right now Combat theater is just a spread out version of the MA with limited plane sets and small game play tweaks. It's just a more boring version of 'find the furball'.
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Originally posted by Montezuma:
HTC needs to find a way to introduce a mandatory organized mission structure.
How about something like this:
You log in, not on either side, but can spectate the ongoing action. You cannot fly until ongoing mission is done, but that should be quick since these missions are set up for speed... read on...
Once the ongoing mission ends, it lets you in to fly. Objective, allies destroy 80% of port facilities at Amsterdam. LW objective intercept and destroy incoming raid. Only certain percentage will be allowed on either side and for specific aircraft. Mission kicks off with air start with bombers 10 miles out from target already in formation... LW is launched with no radar dar bar or dots, but they get a text message from AI radar intercept: "large incoming raid detected 10 miles west of Amsterdam, approximately 20k!!" A timer of 15 minutes is set and both sides spring into action.
If all bombers destroyed, message comes out that LW wins the frame and auto resets to another mission. Same if all LW destroyed, or if the bombers succeed in their mission to destroy enemy target, or if the timer expires with neither side completing mission.
The next mission run would go off the success/failure of previous mission. Front lines might go in towards the axis if allies win previous mission. Total allied victory is acheived and terrain changes to pacific if allies take Berlin, or go to an early East front scenario if Germans win.
Canned mission types could be submitted and voted on by players online. Oh god, it's just like Counter-strike!! :p
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Historical adversaries, instead of spit v spit and FW v 109 is the key to the CA..
Any comparison of the MA to the CA is purely coincidental.
You hunt, you kill the bad guys, you make it home, you get drunk, you do it again.
All without having to worry about a cannibal feeding frenzy.
It rocks. :)
Don't MA-Fornicate the CA!
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What is wrong with all "historical" arenas is that the people who would go into them all have set in stone opinions of how a "historical" arena should be. they also are all different from each other. these guys all have their own agenda or they wouldn't want such a specialized arena. Naturally, if what they want isn't being done that day then they stay away.
MA types look at the arenas and see nothing but a lack of choice and action in one arena and a lot of choice and fun in another.
Fact is... If you want to be historical then ya gotta have missions and a boss. They have to be scenario kinda things.
If you want the ca to succeed then you have to shut down the popular arena and force people to fly in the unpopular one. When you open the MA back up in a couple of months (if HTC is still around) then it will be the odd arena that no one will go to since it will have no one in it.
lazs
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Objectives w/ historical matchups is the key to a successful CA. Objective gives purpose to the bombers and overall scope. How that is implemented really doesn't matter (field capture, strat tgts to win war, etc.)
The 2-sided historical arena w/ field captures is a significantly different than the main 2-sides gangbang the weakest one that often occurs.