Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: mietla on July 23, 2006, 03:57:13 PM

Title: A question for Toad or other airline pilot
Post by: mietla on July 23, 2006, 03:57:13 PM

Is it possible to fly, find an airport and land an airliner without any help from the ground?

Title: A question for Toad or other airline pilot
Post by: SFCHONDO on July 23, 2006, 04:03:29 PM

It's the ground you land on, so it has to help you.  :D

Title: Re: A question for Toad or other airline pilot
Post by: Bodhi on July 23, 2006, 04:13:06 PM

Quote

Originally posted by mietla
Is it possible to fly, find an airport and land an airliner without any help from the ground?

Yes.

Title: A question for Toad or other airline pilot
Post by: Dago on July 23, 2006, 04:18:23 PM

Very possible.  It does piss off the controllers though.   :)

Small planes do it all the time, and with a fraction of the avionics of the airliners.

With todays GPS and Inertial Reference Systems an airliner could fly anywhere around the world and land spot on without a single communication from outside the aircraft.

Actually, they pretty much do navigate without outside help, but get direction from Air Traffic Control for spacing, arrival and departure clearances, and vectors into standard arrival corridors, again mainly for coordination, timing and seperation.

Title: A question for Toad or other airline pilot
Post by: AquaShrimp on July 23, 2006, 04:30:22 PM

Air traffic controllers just keep big airplanes from crashing into each other.

Title: A question for Toad or other airline pilot
Post by: Maverick on July 23, 2006, 05:24:41 PM

Is your question one of simple physical possibility or one of legality?

Title: A question for Toad or other airline pilot
Post by: mietla on July 23, 2006, 05:41:26 PM

Cool. Thank you very much.

Title: A question for Toad or other airline pilot
Post by: mietla on July 23, 2006, 05:44:26 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Maverick
Is your question one of simple physical possibility or one of legality?

possibility

Title: A question for Toad or other airline pilot
Post by: Maverick on July 23, 2006, 05:58:55 PM

Physical possibility, heck yeah. Pilots land visually all the time in the SW where visibility is good.

Title: A question for Toad or other airline pilot
Post by: Debonair on July 23, 2006, 07:29:53 PM

squak 7600 or fly in class G airspace are the two ways to do it afaik

Title: A question for Toad or other airline pilot
Post by: Toad on July 23, 2006, 10:12:06 PM

Yep. Even before GPS and all the other "modern" stuff.

There's this thing called "dead reckoning" even. ;)

Title: A question for Toad or other airline pilot
Post by: Debonair on July 24, 2006, 12:24:21 AM

are the lost comm rules different for the big iron than the part 91 GA lost comm rules?

Title: A question for Toad or other airline pilot
Post by: mora on July 24, 2006, 01:37:41 AM

AFAIK at least in Finland airliners fly scheduled services to airports without ATC.

Title: A question for Toad or other airline pilot
Post by: Fishu on July 24, 2006, 02:17:48 AM

Quote

Originally posted by mora
AFAIK at least in Finland airliners fly scheduled services to airports without ATC.

Surely not the biggest airliners. They're only flying to airfields with ATC or AFIS (Aerodrome Flight Information Service). At least Finnair nor Blue1 doesn't, I don't remember if it was due to a policy or a regulation. If a position isn't open, they'll be waiting till it's open.


Anyway, ATC is out there to serve the pilots and to sort out the traffic flow. They are the traffic lights and signs of the sky. Pilots do the flying and navigation. Of course sometimes pilots of small planes are lost and ATC has to help 'em out.

Flying would be alot harder if it wouldn't be for the radio beacons set up for aviators. Radio beacons are still the main source of navigation, nowadays also backed up by GPS.
IRS aka Inertial Reference System is used by almost every bigger passenger plane today, which is the main source for navigation.

Title: A question for Toad or other airline pilot
Post by: mora on July 24, 2006, 02:39:01 AM

You're correct, AFIS it was...