Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: PuckIt on July 25, 2006, 09:14:48 AM
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A bit long, but interesting.
America a 6-year-old boy’s clams are being hailed by some as evidence for reincarnation. Friends of a 21-year-old navy pilot shot down during World War II are convinced that James Leininger has knowledge that points to the possibility that he was the pilot in a previous life.
James' parents, Andrea and Bruce Leininger, say they were reluctant to believe in such a thing. Both parents are highly educated and 'modern living', they say they are "probably the people least likely to have a scenario like this pop up in their lives."
However, the mass of evidence building up over time has convinced them that reincarnation is the best explanation. They say that James played exclusively with planes from the earliest point, but when he was 2 years old he began experiencing regular nightmares involving them. "I'd wake him up and he'd be screaming," Andrea told ABC News. When asked what the nightmare was about, James would reply, "airplane crash, on fire, little man can't get out."
The Leininger's couldn't fathom the young boy's interest in planes, as he hadn't watched war documentaries and so didn't really have a source for his passion. And yet, in one video of James when 3-years-old, he goes over a plane as if he's doing a pre-flight check. Another time, James corrected his mother when she pointed at what appeared to be a bomb on a toy plane, telling her that it was in fact a drop tank. "I'd never heard of a drop tank," she said. "I didn't know what a drop tank was."
When James' nightmares got worse, and increased in frequency, his parents took him to see counsellor and therapist Carol Bowman, who believes that the dead sometimes can be reborn. Bowman said James was at a point in life where reincarnation memories are most easily recalled. "They haven't had the cultural conditioning, the layering over the experience in this life so the memories can percolate up more easily," she said.
James began to reveal extraordinary details about the life of a former fighter pilot while drowsing off at night. He apparently told his parents that his plane had been hit by the Japanese and crashed. James elaborated to his father that he flew a Corsair, and then reinforced the revelation by saying, "they used to get flat tires all the time." While some might argue that young James might have picked that information up from a normal source, what came next astonished his parents.
James revealed to his father the name of the boat he took off from - the Natoma. Additionally, he also mentioned the name of someone he flew with, a "Jack Larson." Bruce decided to look into these apparently verifiable details, and discovered both the Natoma and Jack Larson did exist. The Natoma Bay was a small aircraft carrier in the Pacific. And Jack Larson was still alive, living in Arkansas.
Bruce decided that more detailed investigation was required, to try and substantiate his son's story further. He said James told him he had been shot down at Iwo Jima, sustaining a direct hit on the engine. James was also signing his crayon drawings "James 3." Sure enough, upon further investigation Bruce found that the only pilot from the Natoma's squadron killed at Iwo Jima was a James M. Huston Jr. Ralph Clarbour, a rear gunner on the plane flying right beside James M. Huston Jr. during the Iwo Jima raid, corroborated one detail of the story. Clarbour revealed that he saw Huston's plane struck by anti-aircraft fire. "I would say he was hit head on, right in the middle of the engine," he said.
The Leiningers felt so strongly about James' evidence that they wrote a letter to Huston's sister, Anne Barron, explaining the situation. Barron believes that James has offered enough evidence to prove he was James M. Huston in a previous life. "The child was so convincing in coming up with all the things that there is no way on the world he could know," she said. Bruce agrees, saying he now finally believes his son had a past life in which he was James M. Huston Jr. "He came back because he wasn't finished with something," he said.
However, sceptical groups are not as convinced. Professor Paul Kurtz of the State University of New York at Buffalo, who heads CSICOP an organization dedicated to rebutting claims of the paranormal says he thinks the parents are "self-deceived." "They're fascinated by the mysterious and they built up a fairy tale," he said. However, James' parents say that the long process of confirmation is evidence that this is not the case. "He appears to have experienced something that I don't think is unique, but the way it's been revealed is quite astounding".
PuckIt
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See Rule #7
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Yeah I agree. I did just find this link on "Skeptico" that attempts to debunk it.
http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2005/07/reincarnation_a.html
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Originally posted by PuckIt
America a 6-year-old boy`s clams are being hailed by some as evidence for reincarnation.
Why are they hailing his clams. He`s 6 years old for God`s sake. Leave the boys clams alone. :)
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I remember seeing this on Yahoo a couple years ago. I seem to remember more details, including a bit about the boy meeting with some of the old pilots.
I do have problems with the counter-arguments, all of which DO appear outright dismissive. When dealing with repressed memories, often times there's a trigger of some sort to reveal their presence, correct? Well, what if the same is true in cases of reincarnation. Perhaps the museum trip triggered MEMORIES?
Also, the one guy Bronze Dog dismissing the point about how crew often refer to ships by nickname (The Hawk, etc) and not even DISCUSSING it makes for a poor argument
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Just because we can't explain why things happen doesn't mean that they don't.
All the components of our body are recycled from other organisms (plants, animals, and even other humans), so maybe its possible that memories are somehow transferable.
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Originally posted by PuckIt
Yeah I agree. I did just find this link on "Skeptico" that attempts to debunk it.
http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2005/07/reincarnation_a.html
Checked out the link. Pretty shabby job of debunking. All they did was offer alternative spins on the story that was initially presented. And while it is scientifically impossible to credit or discredit either of the standpoints, it's very easy to make either standpoint appear absurd, given proper motivation.
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Cue neuroscientist.
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eek! sorry skuzzy :eek: shoulda just put *'s instead. my bad
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Hogwash.
If this kid's a reincarnated anything, I'm actually the reincarnated JFK. Now be quiet and send the reincarnated Marilyn over!
I heard Dane Cook tell a good one about reincarnation and kharma. An Atheist and a Christian were discussing the afterlife. The atheist asked the christian if he really believed there was a heaven.
The christian replied "Yes, the clouds, harps, the whole 9 yards. What do you think happens when you die?"
The atheist said "When I die I will return to the earth. My body will breakdown into it's basic elements and my spirit will be reborn into a beautiful tree!"
The christian said "That's where God steps in and sends a lumberjack to cut down the tree, wrap a chain around it and drag it thru the woods to the sawmill. There it's dumped into a giant chipper, ground into bits, soaked in chemicals and pounded into paper. The paper is then loaded onto a truck and hauled off to make bibles!"
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saw the show on this....freaky
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Originally posted by COBA94
saw the show on this....freaky
I saw it today... I forget what program it was. One of the daily shows. It was interesting to see the kid in action. Its one thing to see a kid interested in somthing, but this was a little different.
I dont know. I guess im on the fence with this one. I could argue either side. The answers to life only come after life, and even if you knew the answers who would listen?
PuckIt
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Just put the kid into Corsair and let him do all the preflight checks and stuff. If he can start the engine in no time we got a winner..
Or put him into a Cessna and watch if he can fly...
nice story otherwise. Hope I am reincarnate of some lucky rich guy who has lots of gold hidden somewhere.. gotta hit the sack if I manage to find out where the stash is!!! :aok
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Just because we can't explain why things happen doesn't mean that they don't.
All the components of our body are recycled from other organisms (plants, animals, and even other humans), so maybe its possible that memories are somehow transferable.
how so? i was petty sure our bodies were formed by cells splitting off from the sperm and ovum......like bacteria dividing, not recylcing.
I like the idea though.
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However, the mass of evidence building up over time has convinced them that reincarnation is the best explanation
LOL.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
how so? i was petty sure our bodies were formed by cells splitting off from the sperm and ovum......like bacteria dividing, not recylcing.
I like the idea though.
I think he means that biomass is recycled. It grows, dies, decays, is reprocessed by the earth and then contributes to the growth of new biomass. On an atomic level, the stuff from which we are built was once the stuff from which something else living was built.
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Meaning that somewhere in your biological makeup is what USED to be feces.
I guess that explains why so many people are so full of *****. :D
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Its amazing he was re-encarnated into an American boy again. And not wobble gobber in the Australian bush. I dont believe in this stuff.
Follow the beam!
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I could tell you tons of stuff about reincarnation but it would violate my witness protection program agreement then "THEY" would find me and ....well it wouldn't be pretty good for me.
So with that said.... I said nothing.
:D
Mac
:noid
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When I was a real little kid I remember having frequent and recurring nightmares for years up untill the 3rd grade of being in a long rowboat of some sort and a tall masted ship sailing away form me. I say nightmare because I remember being afraid at the thought of being in that little boat in the open sea. (true)
Maybe I was Capt Bligh!
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Little man in the boat scares you? :rofl
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Tell me about your mother.
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Originally posted by shooter1cac
Little man in the boat scares you? :rofl
Dred you were once a "Clit"
Dammm...
Mac
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Any of you guys ever have dreams/nightmares in which you were falling?
Guess where those come from. Leftover remnants from our tree-climbing ancestors. Same with most peoples fear of either spiders or snakes. Not quite reincarnation, but similar.
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well..
this reincornation business would explain Mr. Black
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You do hear of stuff like this from time to time. I just think there is more going on in the human mind then we can rationally explain.
What about past life regression, where people under hypnosis remember past lives? That is similar to what we are seeing here. Now whether you believe in reincarnation or not something interesting is going on there. I tend to think they are akin to dreams. Dreams can be very vivid. I had one yesterday where I was caught up in a firefight between Free French and Vichy Militia in WW2. Automatic gunfire all around. When I woke up I realised it had been inspired by the sound of firing at the army range a few miles away. My mind made up a story to go with it. The mind is amazing at times.
But that doesn't explain the kid's memories. I doubt the reincarnation thing but that doesn't explain it away.
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"Natoma" and the name, and the Corsair, and Iwo....that's all a bit...much.
It's just a toddler, you see.
I know an elf story from a 2 year old. Well, our country is full of elves, and elf stories. (That inspired Tolkien BTW).
Anyway, the little lass was always playing by a rock, - by herself. When asked what she'd been doing, she referred to children and a lady in blue.
(classical elf colours according to the myth)
Anyway, the father recalled that there was supposedly an elf rock on the property, and went to investigate. Well, it was the same one.
(Elf rock is the habitat)
I know these people, and the father is very sceptical of such. He had a bit of a shock there though, and kept saying, "How can a 2 year old make this up"
So, a toddler with Natoma, F4U and Iwo, and a name, - :noid
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Originally posted by shooter1cac
Little man in the boat scares you? :rofl
No. It is usually afraid of me:D
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Originally posted by AWMac
Dred you were once a "Clit"
Dammm...
Mac
Ya are what ya eat
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Originally posted by Saxman
Tell me about your mother.
check the "My Mother Is Driving Me Crazy" thread LOL
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Yes but Angus. I happen to know that in Iceland you build roads avoiding areas where elves live.:lol So it's deeply rooted in your tradition. Here in Ireland we have no elves or trolls but heaven forfend anyone who interferes with a fairy fort or tree. That is what happened to the DeLorean Motor Company. They uprooted a fairy tree and look what happened next.:noid
Still the kid is hard to explain. Although I imagine I could produce a hoax and coach a child into believing he was the reincarnation of somebody or other.
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when i think about this stuff....my mind feels like it is going to explode,man.bubble,bubble bubble....ssssswwwwwwiiiiiii. .......aaaaaaaahhhhhhh:cool:
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Originally posted by COBA94
when i think about this stuff....my mind feels like it is going to explode,man.bubble,bubble bubble....ssssswwwwwwiiiiiii. .......aaaaaaaahhhhhhh:cool:
Pyrotechnics expert in a previous life.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Pyrotechnics expert in a previous life.
So I got my certificate for the M136 and sent it home to the folks. Mom hung it up on the fridge with a magnet. Are you beginning to understand why I don't go home very often?
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Originally posted by Wolfala
So I got my certificate for the M136 and sent it home to the folks. Mom hung it up on the fridge with a magnet. Are you beginning to understand why I don't go home very often?
LOL