Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Good on July 25, 2006, 10:50:10 PM

Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: Good on July 25, 2006, 10:50:10 PM
After a month and a half of AH, I am hooked. Unfortunately the creaky old Sidewinder joystick that I used back in 1997 for AW is not cutting it anymore. Luckily, I have birthday money. :aok

So here's where you all come in. If you had around $150 to blow on a stick or stick/throttle combo, what would you buy and why?

Thanks
Goodson
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: DREDIOCK on July 25, 2006, 11:10:19 PM
If all you have is $150. Then the Saiteck would seem the obvious choice

But if you can add some money to that I'd go CH.

In fact thats the direction Im going to go if I can ever get a month without a SURPRISE bill popping up.
Two months ago I needed my main sewer line snaked...All 75 feet of it
Last month is was a new Dryer.
this month it was a refrigerator.

Fortunately Im starting to run out of things that can breakdown LOL
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: Flit on July 25, 2006, 11:22:27 PM
Go CH
 Save your change and get pedals in 3 months
 then your set
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: SkyRock on July 26, 2006, 01:38:13 AM
Put the $150 in ur pocket nothing beats a sidewinder!  hee hee   :aok
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: TequilaChaser on July 26, 2006, 05:58:13 AM
if you do a search you will find that $150 will come close to picking up an USB Fighter Stick and USB Pro Throtle by CH products ( they run roughly $87.00 to $95.00 each )

at the various following online stores:

NewEgg
Provantage
SecureMart

may be a few other online stores I am unaware of too.......
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: moneyguy on July 26, 2006, 06:51:12 AM
i use a Saitek X52 and CH pedals. works great for me. although i wonder how Saitek's new pedals are.
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: nopoop on July 26, 2006, 12:35:59 PM
Go CH throttle stick and pedals. Best to be had.
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: AutoPilot on July 26, 2006, 01:32:14 PM
Quote
Unfortunately the creaky old Sidewinder joystick that I used back in 1997 for AW is not cutting


Just buy another sidewinder, heck buy 2 of them i did!

This person is selling them brand new in the box, they ship to you in about a week after pay pal confirmation goes through.If you bought a new computer back in the late 90's and you wanted the game package they sent you 5 games and a microsoft sidewinder stick.It even comes with the usb adapter and all.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-MICROSOFT-SIDEWINDER-PRECISION-PRO-JOYSTICK-GAMES_W0QQitemZ230002645855QQihZ013QQcategoryZ3677QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: Mister Fork on July 26, 2006, 01:47:40 PM
For complete CH setup, you'll need around $3-400 dollars.

I'd buy SAITEK X-52 and a pair of CH Pro pedals.

When you get some more money, buy the CH stick and throttle. :)
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: Krusty on July 26, 2006, 01:53:26 PM
Okay, somebody who's used both please reply:

IGNORING the rudder action (pretend you've got rudder pedals) what would you say is better, the x52 or the x45? What are the main difference? From what I recall the major change was the inclusion of a twist-rudder motion.
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: icemaw on July 26, 2006, 02:01:20 PM
CH is the only way to fly. It will be the best and last controll set you every buy.
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: Simaril on July 26, 2006, 02:05:01 PM
Krusty...


I found the HUGE difference in spring action a major relief when I moved from the 45 to the 52. I was always frustrated with the 45, but immediately loved the 52.

For me, the 45's tighter springs meant jerky motions in close, even with tweaked software settings. In the center, all was well...but when i reached the edge of the spring action I'd have to increase the pressure to get the spring to move. As soon as I go the spring to move, it kicked a good distnace...so smooth control was very tough.

On the 52, the springs are silky smooth, dont affect movement at all.


The other differences ae minor. The trim wheels are tighter and the center detent is subtle on the 52, so its a bit harder to use them for manual trim. The LCD display isnt all that useful, although I didi program it to show time in London and Tokyo, just for kicks.

Not sure about durability on the 52, but I went through 2 X45s in 15months when the view hats lost a direction.
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: Krusty on July 26, 2006, 02:06:45 PM
Maybe so for a throttle quadrant or a rudder set, but I honestly hate the layout of their sticks. I've never groped one or anything, but I've browsed their webpage and all their sticks are bare, with few buttons. Oh sure they give you about 4 8-way hats, but if you actually want to use them they come out to 4-way hats (too imprecise to hit the 1/8 angles in a hurry), and they look uncomfortable to reach up with your thumb to hit the hats.

They may last for a long time, but they COST more than 5 normal sticks, and they don't look like they're "all that" (practical function wise)

^-- repeat, I've never used one but that's what they LOOK LIKE by looking at them.
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: Krusty on July 26, 2006, 02:09:29 PM
Simarl:

Thanks for the review. I can never afford anything like that (or I'd have it by now) but it's always nice to window shop and know exactly what version you'd get, if you could. Of the two the 52 sounds a little better.

Do they sell X52s without the throttles? Just the sticks?

I think it would be interesting to have the CH 4-throttle quadrant, the x52, and some pedals.
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: Good on July 26, 2006, 02:44:27 PM
Wow, thanks for all the info so far.

At this point, I'm leaning towards CH. My last stick was an old 2-button CH and it was incredibly reliable. One question though. Do the CH fighterstick and combatstick have twisty rudders? I ask becasue buying pedals right now may be more than the wallet and the wife can stand.

Thanks
Goodson
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: aztec on July 26, 2006, 02:49:06 PM
Still running my 10 year CH Stick, Throttle and Pedals. Clean the pots once a year...hard to beat.
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: Roscoroo on July 26, 2006, 03:07:16 PM
Ebay ------- theres a 568 on there for 60 bucks if your quick enough .
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: Wolfala on July 26, 2006, 05:15:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by icemaw
CH is the only way to fly. It will be the best and last controll set you every buy.


Funny, i've had 3 sets of CH sticks. And 2 Logitech's, and a Sidewinder Pro, and now on an X-52 which surprisingly has outlasted each and every previous stick setup i've had. I've got a spare X-52 which was brandnew just incase this 1 folds, but that hasn't happened yet - which is good given my track record of going through sticks faster then a redneck going downhill stuffed inside of a Goodyear.

Wolf
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: OOZ662 on July 26, 2006, 05:17:37 PM
Oh yeah, Wolf? Beat this: 7 X45s dead in 6 months. Thank you, BestBuy! :D
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: Krusty on July 26, 2006, 05:23:40 PM
"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me 7 times, shame on me!" - OOZ's motto


Hey, OOZ, stop buying from Best Buy!!!!!!! Order online, mate!
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: OOZ662 on July 26, 2006, 05:24:18 PM
Why? I got 6 free X45's at their expense. What's better than that? :huh ($450 man... :p)
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: Krusty on July 26, 2006, 05:25:55 PM
LMAO, yes, but the down time and the back and forth time aren't worth the effort. Buy one GOOD stick and you won't NEED 5 free sticks! :)

They must have a defective warehouse or something. They're unloading all their rejected items.
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: OOZ662 on July 26, 2006, 05:27:47 PM
Well, there never was any downtime, just...retarded time. :D It was that issue where something slowly dies in the throttle so the stick starts intermittently losing input. I was flying like a weed on crack in a high wind, but I was still flying.
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: Krusty on July 26, 2006, 05:35:27 PM
That's almost sig material. Almost.

Not quite. :lol
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: Simaril on July 26, 2006, 05:40:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Simarl:

Thanks for the review. I can never afford anything like that (or I'd have it by now) but it's always nice to window shop and know exactly what version you'd get, if you could. Of the two the 52 sounds a little better.

Do they sell X52s without the throttles? Just the sticks?

I think it would be interesting to have the CH 4-throttle quadrant, the x52, and some pedals.


I think they always come together. I would not get a X45, primarily because of the durability issue -- better than Logitech, but not good by any means (at least for the intense use we AH'ers put in).

I would strongly recommend the BestBuy warranty...thats how I wen through 3 sticks in about 20 months, with a total cost of about $110.

The throttles have never let me down. In fact, when this Saitek goes I might think about the CH stick, but I'm in no hurry to get another throttle.
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: Wolfala on July 26, 2006, 06:25:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by OOZ662
Oh yeah, Wolf? Beat this: 7 X45s dead in 6 months. Thank you, BestBuy! :D


Something is tempting me to hire you to get our **** to MILSPEC just by u abusing it.
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: OOZ662 on July 26, 2006, 06:26:48 PM
:rofl
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: AutoPilot on July 26, 2006, 06:42:31 PM
When i download this game  so long ago the first thing i did was go get me a microsoft stick and been usin it since.Bought me 2 for back ups and i store them at 2 locations just in case.
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: airspro on July 26, 2006, 07:58:40 PM
568 Combat Stick Throttle , and Pedals .  

CH is good gear , will last you far longer than cheaper stuff .

 Yes MS Sidewinder is my next choice , I really is a good stick for the price , you'll have to buy one off Ebay most likly .

You could get CH throttle , pedals , and toss in the MS Sidewinder stick to help you fit your tight budget , that would last you a hell of a long time , far longer than a Saitek product .

cheers
Spro
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: Flash on July 27, 2006, 09:37:38 AM
you can go wrong with the Ms sidewinder. i bought several from this ebay site. so i have several on standby in case i need one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-MICROSOFT-S...1QQcmdZViewItem
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: Good on July 27, 2006, 10:42:15 AM
Thanks again for all the advice. It was close, but I finally decided on the x-52. I went to Best Buy so I could get the extended warranty (and also instant gratification). A few Best Buy half spent gift cards lying around helped swing the decision.

I figure I can add CH pedals down the line if I get the urge and maybe upgrade to everything CH in the future if I don't like it.

Now all I have to do is to figure out what to map where. Geeze there are a lot of buttons on this thing!
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: OOZ662 on July 27, 2006, 10:44:19 AM
A lot of buttons and burn-out-your-retina LEDs unless you turn them down on the controller properties... :D
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: Good on July 27, 2006, 11:07:42 AM
The light . . . so bright  . . . .


Whew! You weren't kidding. I think I felt my power bill go up.

Seriously though, I really am at a loss as to what I should assign to all these things.

Anybody care to share their x-52 setups?
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: OOZ662 on July 27, 2006, 04:18:42 PM
http://www.shelteringwings.com/saitekx52flightcontroller.jsm

:aok (It's an Aces High setting file; I don't use the SST)
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: Schatzi on July 28, 2006, 03:38:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Good
The light . . . so bright  . . . .


Whew! You weren't kidding. I think I felt my power bill go up.

Seriously though, I really am at a loss as to what I should assign to all these things.

Anybody care to share their x-52 setups?



Map the basics you NEED. Look up, Fire Buttons, Mic, Flaps, (combat trim), WEP - get used to those. Then add functions and assignments as you need them... thats how I did it with my X45... worked like a charm.
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: PuckIt on July 28, 2006, 03:44:22 PM
Im gonna jump in here with out adding a new topic. I have an X45... well kinda. Its the stick (Namco Flight Stick 2) that was sold for the PS2's Ace Combat 5. Drivers = nightmare, but I got it to work in the end.

Moving on.. I love the X45's, but hate the spring.

I understand that the x52 does not have the rudder on the throtle. This is the only problem that I see for me. I have a Top Gun somthing or other thats a twisty. When I flew with the twisty I noticed that I was mixing unwanted rudder inputs in flight. I love using the rudder when needed, but dog tailing because of a heavy hand kinda blows. Do you guys have this problem with the 52? I know I could get ped's, but I dont see that in the near future. Comments on the twisty please. I added a pic of the Namco for the curious.


Puckit

(http://www.gameinformer.com/NR/rdonlyres/E7906248-A711-400D-AB66-203DC2B130C5/5179/horistick.jpg)
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: OOZ662 on July 28, 2006, 03:49:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by PuckIt
I understand that the x52 does not have the rudder on the throtle. This is the only problem that I see for me. I have a Top Gun somthing or other thats a twisty. When I flew with the twisty I noticed that I was mixing unwanted rudder inputs in flight. I love using the rudder when needed, but dog tailing because of a heavy hand kinda blows. Do you guys have this problem with the 52? I know I could get ped's, but I dont see that in the near future. Comments on the twisty please.


The X52 does have a twitsty rudder, and I do notice very small inputs every now and then in the heat of battle, but not to the point of ruining it. Also, if you do get pedals in the future (check out the Saitek pedals...supposedly cheaper. I haven't even looked) there's a small tab you can pull out to lock the twisty rudder from moving.
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: PuckIt on July 28, 2006, 04:00:29 PM
Thanks OOZ662 the disable twisty brings up my last question. Does anyone know if the x45 throtle will work with the 52. Probably not is my quess. I would assume driver issues if it even pluged in.


PuckIt
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: Krusty on July 28, 2006, 04:11:24 PM
Hrm... the tab just keeps the stick from twisting, if it's anything like several other sticks that have "twist locks". That doesn't disable the actual axis itself, nor does it stop spiking (had a wingman, even when LOCKED it was a POS, would get rudder spikes -- I had to deadband the entire band to get rid of it) on certain sticks.

I'm guessing you would run into a conflict, if the rudder axis shows up twice on the hardware.

I'm speculating, mind you. I dont' know. If the axis on the stick is present and the axis on the throttle is too, you could have 1 of 4 things

1) The stick blows up
2) Neither rudder axis works
3) The stick axis takes precedence over the throttle
4) The throttle axis takes precedence over the stick


That is, of course, assuming the plug even fits
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: airspro on July 28, 2006, 04:25:53 PM
Quote
When I flew with the twisty I noticed that I was mixing unwanted rudder inputs in flight. I love using the rudder when needed, but dog tailing because of a heavy hand kinda blows.


Turn your joystick to a 45 deg angle to yourself and when you finally get a good fit like that , take a pencil and mark around it so that you can put it back JUST LIKE THAT every time you fly . This helps alot . Also to shoot a little better , having a elbow rest is important .

If the hats would last longer , Saitek would be a good buy but they don't for me and many others . Gets to be a pita to warr. them out , better CH they LAST :)

cheers
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: PuckIt on July 28, 2006, 04:27:59 PM
I agree Krusty. Its to questionable at this point. I dont think I will go near this one unless its been proven to work.

I may just need to train my hand to a twisty. (no need for any humor here Ive already thought of all possible replys). :rofl

I do fly at the 45 your talking about and it does help.

PuckIt
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: OOZ662 on July 28, 2006, 04:37:20 PM
The X45 uses a serial-like connector to connect to the two units; the X52 uses a P/S-2 type connector between the two. So no, they won't connect.
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: Xjazz on July 28, 2006, 05:32:48 PM
Since begining of my AH 'career' I have been flying with Saitek X36. First with gameport version, which was horrible and the major of time with usb version, which was great.

Now with CH fighter stick, Saitek X35T throttle and Logitech pedals(brake/gas).
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: Krusty on July 28, 2006, 05:44:52 PM
Puck it, there's some problems with cheap sticks.

My wingman, for example, would spike all 4 axis if any 1 axis moved. it also had an unsteady center. If I moved left, it would spike rudder and throttle, for example. that was a TRUE POS.

However, having been flying on a MS stick for a while, I can say that twisty stick, while without the superb control of rudder pedals, can more than ge the job done. As with any new interface you may have to train yourself to get used to it, but you won't even think about it in time. You have to scale the axis how you like, though. I have mine in an geometric curve, where for the first 30% you get very little movement with the control (this allows for fine tuning) and then medium around the middle, and max deflection at the edges. It's not perfect. It doesn't help in all situations, but I've found it works for me.

Same applies to everybody and every stick. Just find what works, and once it works, stop fiddlin' with it :aok
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: PuckIt on July 28, 2006, 06:48:43 PM
Krusty, Thanks for the suggestion. I was thinking just what you said about tuning in the rudder so my heavy hand would have to move more than just a little to get any real movement. Like you said is so many words "Just get used to it". You are right if I make the switch I may like it once I get it down. Anyway thanks for the input.


PuckIt
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: handy169 on July 29, 2006, 12:27:50 PM
X-52

http://saitekusa.stores.yahoo.net/x52flcosyre.html
 
only 69.95 regular 129.95
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: Clutz on July 29, 2006, 04:22:26 PM
http://www.provantage.com/pro-throttle-usb~22062154.htm
http://www.provantage.com/fighterstick-usb~22031986.htm
http://www.provantage.com/pro-pedals-usb~22043985.htm

Silat was kind enough to send these links my way. It cost about 300.00 for these three ch products, if I remember correctly. I don't use the stick. I still prefer the mouse, but that's a whole nother topic, isn't it. So I say get the pedals and the throttle, forget the stick :D oh yeah, dont tell Silat I am still using a mouse :aok
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: Tigger29 on July 29, 2006, 06:41:50 PM
The throttle on that NAMCO looks identical to the X45 throttle.

I noticed it plugs into the X45 stick with what looks like an old gameport plug.. has anyone ever tried plugging the X45 directly into the gameport socket in the computer?
Title: Help pick my next controller!
Post by: PuckIt on July 30, 2006, 06:47:18 AM
Tigger29, Good point. I will try this in the next couple days and see if it works, or if I can make it work. If this turns out good it may solve most of my problems. Good catch Tigger. I will let you know how it turns out.

PuckIt