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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: xrtoronto on July 28, 2006, 11:31:27 AM

Title: Watergate whistle-blower asks if U.S. ‘is on the road to fascism'
Post by: xrtoronto on July 28, 2006, 11:31:27 AM
Updated: 3:33 p.m. ET July 27, 2006

LOS ANGELES - John Dean, the White House lawyer who famously helped blow the whistle on the Watergate scandal that drove Richard Nixon from office, says the country has returned to an "imperial presidency" that is putting the United States and the world at risk.

In his new book, "Conservatives Without Conscience," Dean looks at Republican-controlled Washington and sees a bullying, manipulative, prejudiced leadership edging the nation toward a dark era.

"Are we on the road to fascism?" he writes. "Clearly, we are not on that road yet. But it would not take much more misguided authoritarian leadership, or thoughtless following of such leaders, to find ourselves there.

"I am not sure which is more frightening," he adds, "another major terror attack or the response of authoritarian conservatives to that attack."

Dean, who served 127 days in prison for his part in the Nixon administration's Watergate cover-up, recently talked to The Associated Press about the ascendancy of the conservative right and the two-fisted style of political leadership he says was central to its rise.

"We have returned to the imperial presidency," he said. "We have an unchecked presidency."

More than three decades ago, the 67-year-old Dean was a young White House lawyer when he warned President Richard M. Nixon that the cover-up of a break-in at Democratic national headquarters in Washington's Watergate complex was "a cancer growing on the presidency."

Dean, who later pleaded guilty to obstruction of justice, went on to become the star witness at the congressional Watergate hearings, implicating several high-ranking administration officials.

An authoritarian party
His book is anchored to a discussion of authoritarianism, a school of thought that, in the simplest terms, tries to explain why some people lead and others follow. The classic authoritarian personality — mostly found in men — thirsts for power, is exploitive, cheats to win, opposes equality, intimidates and is mean-spirited.

This headstrong leadership style marks the current Republican right in varying degrees, he says, starting with President Bush and moving on down through the leadership ranks. The Bush White House, Dean says, has "given authoritarianism a new legitimacy," the same legitimacy he says it enjoyed before Nixon's presidency unraveled.

Authoritarian thinking, Dean writes, "was the principal force behind almost everything that went wrong with Nixon's presidency."

For anyone familiar with Dean's writing, the sharp stabs at the Bush administration will come as no surprise. His latest book is a sequel of sorts to his 2004 best seller, "Worse Than Watergate: The Secret Presidency of George W. Bush."

Dean's current book has been steadily climbing best-seller lists, with publisher Viking ordering a second run for a total of 180,000 copies.

Booksellers pointed to Dean's prominence and his engaging writing style for the book's success despite a flood of political commentaries in recent years.

"Books like this one, whether they be on one side or the other, there is a lot of interest from consumers," said Bill Nasshan, senior vice president of books for Borders Group, Inc.

Booksellers also are not concerned about oversaturation in the current events section.

"We expect a lot more of these books to be published. With the coming midterm election, the country is more divided than it's ever been," said Bob Wietrak, vice president of merchandising at Barnes & Noble Inc.

In "Conservatives Without Conscience," Dean pays Bush a backhanded compliment, saying that while the president is "not a puppet" it is Vice President Dick Cheney who is the White House's dominant authoritarian.

"Cheney has swallowed the presidency," Dean says.

While his journey from Nixon White House insider to Bush administration antagonist has evolved over the years, Dean told the AP that his politics haven't changed drastically during that time. He still sees himself as a defender of the conservative values championed by the late Sen. Barry Goldwater, the Republican icon to whom his latest book is dedicated.

But Dean says his version of Republicanism doesn't square with the authoritarians who have dominated his former party in recent years, from former House Speaker Newt Gingrich to White House strategist Karl Rove.

He sees them drifting from traditional conservative values, citing, among other examples, deficit spending and the federal budget debt.

"My views have changed very little over the last 40 years," Dean said. "The Republican Party and conservatism have moved so far to the right that I'm now left of center.

"This country works best as a centrist nation. I think, basically, the electorate is centrist. You have the debate being set by the extremes."

c&p (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14062437)
Title: Watergate whistle-blower asks if U.S. ‘is on the road to fascism'
Post by: toon on July 28, 2006, 12:04:03 PM
john dean was and will always be a squiggly little rat who should have been stabbed in the neck with a #2 pencil in 1973. just my opinion tho.
Title: xrtoronto
Post by: Eagler on July 28, 2006, 12:05:57 PM
Nashs cut n paste mini me
LOL
Title: Watergate whistle-blower asks if U.S. ‘is on the road to fascism'
Post by: xrtoronto on July 28, 2006, 12:44:38 PM
eagler=ann coulter in drag

LOL
Title: Watergate whistle-blower asks if U.S. ‘is on the road to fascism'
Post by: midnight Target on July 28, 2006, 01:24:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by COBA94
john dean was and will always be a squiggly little rat who should have been stabbed in the neck with a #2 pencil in 1973. just my opinion tho.


Yeah!

How dare he tell the truth and all... the weenie!
Title: Watergate whistle-blower asks if U.S. ‘is on the road to fascism'
Post by: lazs2 on July 28, 2006, 02:48:33 PM
dean was probly the worst person involved in the whole affair... he was smug about it when he thought he was gonna get away with it and folded like a cheap card table under a fat lady when he was cornered... he is a despicable and bitter human being who's conversion to honesty and integrity is highly suspect by anyone with at least half a functioning brain.

lazs
Title: Watergate whistle-blower asks if U.S. ‘is on the road to fascism'
Post by: Waffle on July 29, 2006, 01:42:52 AM
127 days in prison?  like that gives em credit...lol
Title: Watergate whistle-blower asks if U.S. ‘is on the road to fascism'
Post by: Pooh21 on July 29, 2006, 01:47:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Stagan
Attacking the messenger and not the message works always!

If you can't prove him wrong you can always ridicule him and win the conversation that way :)
and which :cool:  are you?
Title: Watergate whistle-blower asks if U.S. ‘is on the road to fascism'
Post by: lazs2 on July 29, 2006, 09:36:51 AM
The message?   The message is simply what a bitter and addmited former scumbag thinks is going on right now.

He is not involved in the workings of the current pres.  A book by him on nixon or prison conditions of the time might make more sense.

Where does he get all this current inside info?  How is he a "whistle blower" for today?    His info is only current if you were rip van winkle.

In that context it is fine to attack the messenger.... he has no message that is born of any real inside current info so... his motives for his opinions are the only thing you can judge.

lazs
Title: Watergate whistle-blower asks if U.S. ‘is on the road to fascism'
Post by: culero on July 29, 2006, 09:39:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
dean was probly the worst person involved in the whole affair... he was smug about it when he thought he was gonna get away with it and folded like a cheap card table under a fat lady when he was cornered... he is a despicable and bitter human being who's conversion to honesty and integrity is highly suspect by anyone with at least half a functioning brain.

lazs


Gee, reckon so?

culero (good call man)
Title: Re: Watergate whistle-blower asks if U.S. ‘is on the road to fascism'
Post by: FUNKED1 on July 29, 2006, 03:54:24 PM
On the road to it?  More like got on the freeway in the express lane and went all the way up the mountain, parked, got out and started a bonfire...
Title: Watergate whistle-blower asks if U.S. ‘is on the road to fascism'
Post by: FUNKED1 on July 29, 2006, 03:55:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Stagan
Attacking the messenger and not the message works always!

If you can't prove him wrong you can always ridicule him and win the conversation that way :)


But it's typical.  As I said before, most of these neonconanderthals have the debate skills of early hominids...
Title: Watergate whistle-blower asks if U.S. ‘is on the road to fascism'
Post by: john9001 on July 29, 2006, 04:31:40 PM
dean was the one who talked Nixon into "stonewalling", Nixon wanted to bring the whole thing into the open ( check the Nixon tapes transcripts) but dean talked him out of it.

when dean was called before congress, he sang like a little bird.
Title: Watergate whistle-blower asks if U.S. ‘is on the road to fascism'
Post by: lazs2 on July 30, 2006, 10:13:03 AM
so funked...  it is better to listen to an avowed criminal and liar who turned on his former friends in order to save his own neck...

It is better to listen to this whimp about things he hasn't been involved in for over 30 years than to simply laugh at his theories?

What gives him the incite?  the hanging out with the current admin?   The political position he holds?   Where or where does he get info that is not 30 or more years old?

I am not a neocon by your defenition... I have no love for the current admin and I certainly had none for the group dean was involved in but...

What are my alternatives?   Should I have voted for kerrie?

you tell me funked.  What is the alternative?

lazs
Title: Watergate whistle-blower asks if U.S. ‘is on the road to fascism'
Post by: Sandman on July 30, 2006, 11:02:12 AM
Quote
You have the debate being set by the extremes.


This is spot on.
Title: Watergate whistle-blower asks if U.S. ‘is on the road to fascism'
Post by: Gunslinger on July 30, 2006, 11:08:20 AM
Fascism or Fascist

Yet another overused word by a political entity for purposes of shock value that has completly lost its luster.  This word gets thrown around by liberals so much and even in a fascist way that the meaning is completly lost to a "who cares" point.

The right is guilty of this as well but with words like un-patriotic, and treasonous, ect.
Title: Watergate whistle-blower asks if U.S. ‘is on the road to fascism'
Post by: Sandman on July 30, 2006, 11:14:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
Fascism or Fascist

Yet another overused word by a political entity for purposes of shock value that has completly lost its luster.  This word gets thrown around by liberals so much and even in a fascist way that the meaning is completly lost to a "who cares" point.

The right is guilty of this as well but with words like un-patriotic, and treasonous, ect.


Same thing... wrong words. Try socialist and communist.
Title: Watergate whistle-blower asks if U.S. ‘is on the road to fascism'
Post by: Gunslinger on July 30, 2006, 11:20:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
Same thing... wrong words. Try socialist and communist.


Those would fit as well, but I think even you'll agree with me that the right throws out the patriot card almost as much as the left plays the race card.
Title: Watergate whistle-blower asks if U.S. ‘is on the road to fascism'
Post by: Sandman on July 30, 2006, 11:20:50 AM
I agree.
Title: Watergate whistle-blower asks if U.S. ‘is on the road to fascism'
Post by: RedRadr on July 30, 2006, 03:35:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
This is spot on.
     

            groan, shudnt that be about a wrap on  'spot on'  ....?
Title: Watergate whistle-blower asks if U.S. ‘is on the road to fascism'
Post by: Sixpence on July 30, 2006, 03:39:20 PM
This thread goes well with the photographing police  thread
Title: Watergate whistle-blower asks if U.S. ‘is on the road to fascism'
Post by: Dead Man Flying on July 30, 2006, 03:47:31 PM
Quote
"This country works best as a centrist nation. I think, basically, the electorate is centrist. You have the debate being set by the extremes."


If anybody other than Dean had written this, who here would agree with it?  Disagree with it?  Maybe we can steer this discussion in a direction other than the status quo in here, which seems to involve attacking the individuals making statements rather than examining the statements themselves.

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: Watergate whistle-blower asks if U.S. ‘is on the road to fascism'
Post by: midnight Target on July 30, 2006, 05:36:10 PM
DMF is right.

I think the explaination for Clinton's level of support throughout his presidency was due to his centrist approach.

Oh wait... that won't work well in here will it?
Title: Watergate whistle-blower asks if U.S. ‘is on the road to fascism'
Post by: Toad on July 30, 2006, 07:12:54 PM
If you assume a bell curve, of course the country is centrist.
Title: Watergate whistle-blower asks if U.S. ‘is on the road to fascism'
Post by: Rolex on July 30, 2006, 08:46:42 PM
If only there were a Centrist Party with political capital appropriate to that curve.
Title: Watergate whistle-blower asks if U.S. ‘is on the road to fascism'
Post by: Dead Man Flying on July 31, 2006, 07:33:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
If you assume a bell curve, of course the country is centrist.


But Dean isn't really arguing that the country is centrist.  He's arguing that the political debate is not.

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: Watergate whistle-blower asks if U.S. ‘is on the road to fascism'
Post by: toon on July 31, 2006, 08:36:57 AM
centrist  with leanings in both directions depending on the policy being discussed. have and will continue to cross party lines when needed.complete loyality to a party limits my individual status.
Title: Watergate whistle-blower asks if U.S. ‘is on the road to fascism'
Post by: lazs2 on July 31, 2006, 08:46:45 AM
if everyone were centrist how could you have political debate?   Dean is stateing the obvious?

Still... I am trying to figure out what makes dean so special that he is worth listening to.   He is a proven liar and scumbag who turned in all his friends to save his own neck... he was the worst in a group of bad people 30 years ago.

Anything he has to say is history.   and yet... he tries to tell us how things are going in an arena that he is not involved.

Certainly... if he talks long enough.. he will say something wise... but then.. so does my 4 year old grand daughter or the wino wiping your widsheild with the greasy rag.   you sometimes have to decide if the messenger is worth listening to or.... simply spend every moment listening to everyone who opens their mouth or writes something down.

or....you could just read the stuff that gave the message you want to hear I suppose and call that the truth.

lazs
Title: Watergate whistle-blower asks if U.S. ‘is on the road to fascism'
Post by: Red Tail 444 on July 31, 2006, 09:39:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by FUNKED1
But it's typical.  As I said before, most of these neonconanderthals have the debate skills of early hominids...


So, you're gonna flame early hominids now?