Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Thrawn on July 31, 2006, 07:59:49 PM

Title: Who put the UN observers in Lebanon.
Post by: Thrawn on July 31, 2006, 07:59:49 PM
The following is a list of countries that vote on Security Council resolution 426, which estabilished the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon.

R Y BOLIVIA
R Y CANADA
P A CHINA
R A CZECHOSLOVAKIA
P Y FRANCE
R Y GABON
R Y GERMANY, FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF
R Y INDIA
R Y KUWAIT
R Y MAURITIUS
R Y NIGERIA
P A USSR
P Y UNITED KINGDOM
P Y UNITED STATES
R Y VENEZUELA (BOLIVARIAN REPUBLIC OF)

http://unbisnet.un.org:8080/ipac20/ipac.jsp?session=11A43939458A0.8&menu=search&aspect=power&npp=50&ipp=20&spp=20&profile=voting&ri=&index=.VM&term=&matchopt=0%7C0&oper=and&aspect=power&index=.VW&term=426+&matchopt=0%7C0&oper=and&index=BIB&term=&matchopt=0%7C0&oper=and&index=BIB&term=&matchopt=0%7C0&limitbox_1=VI01+%3D+vi_s&ultype=&uloper=%3D&ullimit=&ultype=&uloper=%3D&ullimit=&sort=&x=8&y=12#focus

So stop blaming the UN and start blaming the countries with "Y" beside them.
Title: Who put the UN observers in Lebanon.
Post by: Ripsnort on July 31, 2006, 08:06:05 PM
Why not just blame Bush? Its the easy way out...
Title: Who put the UN observers in Lebanon.
Post by: Thrawn on July 31, 2006, 08:08:46 PM
Once again Rip, thanks for that incredible contribution to the public dialog.  Now get out of my thread.  :furious
Title: Who put the UN observers in Lebanon.
Post by: Gunslinger on July 31, 2006, 08:14:04 PM
Thrawn,

If we both posted wouldn't it be "our" thread?
Title: Who put the UN observers in Lebanon.
Post by: Thrawn on July 31, 2006, 08:19:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
Thrawn,

If we both posted wouldn't it be "our" thread?



...that sounds like communism.
Title: Who put the UN observers in Lebanon.
Post by: john9001 on July 31, 2006, 08:22:38 PM
not saying the UN should not have been there, saying the UN was sent in there to keep the peace, this they did not do.

all in favor of giving the UN troops loaded guns say "eye".
Title: Who put the UN observers in Lebanon.
Post by: Holden McGroin on July 31, 2006, 08:31:19 PM
Freakin Gaboneze  (Gabononians?) .... I knew it was their fault...
Title: Who put the UN observers in Lebanon.
Post by: Thrawn on July 31, 2006, 08:38:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
all in favor of giving the UN troops loaded guns say "eye".



Not just yes, but hell yes.
Title: Who put the UN observers in Lebanon.
Post by: Toad on July 31, 2006, 08:41:55 PM
Thrawn, who set the ROE for UNIFL? If you want to look for the guilty, I think that's the place to start.

It's in the same vein as the warning Iran was given on its nuclear program.

Quote
Because of Russian and Chinese demands, the text was watered down from earlier drafts, which would have made the threat of sanctions immediate. It now essentially requires the council to hold more discussions before it considers sanctions.



Right there's the problem. It's most visible when UN troops deploy.

UNIFL wasn't allowed to do anything about the problem really. That's why any new UN force in Lebanon won't work either. Their ROE will make them useless.
Title: Who put the UN observers in Lebanon.
Post by: Thrawn on July 31, 2006, 08:47:07 PM
If you want to say that the UN (or specifically the SC) is broken, you won't get any debate from me.

"Thrawn, who set the ROE for UNIFL? If you want to look for the guilty, I think that's the place to start."

It would be, no joy so far.
Title: Who put the UN observers in Lebanon.
Post by: Grayeagle on July 31, 2006, 08:48:49 PM
yanno ..

..Israel should just fire up the tankers, infantry, and air cover and drive over to the opposite border.

Problem solved.

-GE (ya, I know, simple to say, and there would be some upset apple carts, but .. half measures *never* do the deed)
Title: Who put the UN observers in Lebanon.
Post by: LePaul on July 31, 2006, 08:53:21 PM
What puzzles me is all out war is declared, Hezbolla's use UN posts and civilian posts to hide amongst.  Being unarmed and *knowing* the Israeli's would strike back, they chose to stay.  

Again...slower...

Unarmed...

Warzone...

Hezbollah using UN as sheilds...

They stay...

Hello!  Run Luke, run!
Title: Who put the UN observers in Lebanon.
Post by: Thrawn on July 31, 2006, 08:54:42 PM
Toad, I think I found it...at least in princple.


"The Security Council reaffirms its commitment to the full
sovereignty, political independence, territorial integrity and national
unity of Lebanon within its internationally recognized boundaries. In this
context, the Council asserts that all States shall refrain from the threat
or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence
of any State, or in any manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United
Nations."

http://daccessdds.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N00/270/49/PDF/N0027049.pdf?OpenElement


From resolution 425,

"1.    Calls for strict respect of the territorial integrity, sovereignty and political independence of Lebanon within its internationally recognised boundaries;"

Can't really have sovereignty if you have armed military personal from foreign nations running around your country I would guess.
Title: Who put the UN observers in Lebanon.
Post by: Toad on July 31, 2006, 09:02:00 PM
When can UN peacekeepers use force? (http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/dpko/faq/q12.htm)

Quote
Aware of the dangers of deploying peacekeepers in situations where there is no real peace to keep, the Security Council now provides, when it deems necessary, UN peacekeeping operations with more “robust” mandates based on Chapter VII (5) — the “enforcement” chapter of the United Nations Charter.


So, the SC provides the ROE.

And, as we've seen today in the Iran warning , it only takes one or two countries to water down any SC resolve to the point of uselessness.

I feel sorry for UNIFL; like Dallaire and his troops in Rwanda, their HQ betrayed their mission from the start.

We just have to face facts: the UN can't face open armed conflict anymore. That time passed after Korea I think.
Title: Who put the UN observers in Lebanon.
Post by: Gunslinger on July 31, 2006, 11:00:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
...that sounds like communism.


I was actually having a "fast times" flash back.
Title: Who put the UN observers in Lebanon.
Post by: Nilsen on August 01, 2006, 02:45:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
not saying the UN should not have been there, saying the UN was sent in there to keep the peace, this they did not do.

all in favor of giving the UN troops loaded guns say "eye".



eye
Title: just wondering
Post by: Eagler on August 01, 2006, 05:54:44 AM
was the UN armed in Kosovo?
Title: Re: just wondering
Post by: Nilsen on August 01, 2006, 06:06:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
was the UN armed in Kosovo?


Yes. Not sure about thier ROE tho and how it changed over time.
Title: Who put the UN observers in Lebanon.
Post by: Shuckins on August 01, 2006, 06:49:13 AM
I've never understood the purpose in placing unarmed "observers" along a volatile border such as the Golan Heights between Israel and Lebanon.

Back in 1993 I stood on an east-west road running the length of those heights.  Behind me on a ridge stood an Israeli electronics observation post.  Our guide had warned us not to photograph it because the Israelis had been known to seize photographic equipment from those that did so and retain the owners for questioning.

Overhead flew an F-16.  While we stood there, two immense flat-bed trailers passed by, hauling M-109 self-propelled artillery pieces.  

This was an impressive display of vigilance and security along a blood-stained border.

To the north, at the bottom of a small valley, lay a small camp of UN observers, armed with small arms and light-transport and utility vehicles.

I thought then that the only thing that small group of powerless men could accomplish was to provide a source of considerable mirth to the Israelis and the terrorists to the north of that camp.
Title: Who put the UN observers in Lebanon.
Post by: Nilsen on August 01, 2006, 07:01:04 AM
They are there to observe what is going on and report anything out of the ordinary to the UN. If they were not there they would have to trust either sides verion of what is happening on the ground.
Title: Who put the UN observers in Lebanon.
Post by: Eagler on August 01, 2006, 08:10:21 AM
I imagine once the Un was in place, their main concern was to report nothing or risk getting their throats slit at night ...

You need a "shoot first ask questions later" ARMY installed to try and keep the peace. It won't work though as Iraq and other places have demonstrated, the cheekboness love to die while taking as many of their enemies with them ..
It will not matter if they are armed if they are not allowed to use their firearms. Gotta ask yourself if Lebanon really wants the hezboobs taken out .. I don't think so, after all they are part of their political structure now, just as this butcher made his way into politics after he had his run at genecide:

(http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/605000/images/_607156_arkan300.jpg)

another UN failure for the history books ... how many times does the UN have to fail before someone sees it is useless?