Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Kweassa on August 06, 2006, 10:56:51 PM
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This just in from Forgotten Battles forums:
An translation of an open interview with Oleg Maddox posted at sukhoi.ru, translated by crazyivan
AviaForum: Oleg, are you planning to continue development of IL--2 after release of BOB? Is there possibility of passing IL-2 to some 3rd party company for further development?
O.M. : Development of IL-2 will be stopped after planned add-ons. Passing it off to the third party is possible and we are ready to discuss it such offer if we receive one. Meanwhile, nobody offered anything. Main request to potential partner is serious support of the product, guarantees that balance and order on line will be kept and readiness to work on the same level of quality, which was set by us.
Aviaforum: After recent breaking into SFS files, what is being done to protect online play in BOB?
O.M.: During last month, month and the half entire system of coding was rewritten from scratch and will be implemented with nearest add-on. On the side note, I would like to thank people who broke into the code for not spreading information around. Actually this had happened before, but back then, we only implemented small changes. Now, we completely changed concepts of code protection. Same system with modifications will be introduced in
AviaForum: Is it possible to organize combined server for many players?
OM: New engine allows to organize combined are for many players. If we get support from the publisher, we are ready to release MMO simulator based on BOB, where not only planes will be controlled by the players, but also tanks, cars, vessels, submarines, basically all elements of warfare that are present in the sim.
Aviaforum: How will you implement work of radar stations? Will players be able to request information from then about situation in the air? Are you planning to develop tools for coordination of the actions pilots in the air? Are you planning to expand control over AI wingmen?
O.M.: It will be the same as in real life. Radar stations will coordinate pilots and direct them in the areas where enemy planes were spotted. If you are talking about german technologies in using radar, I cant promise anything yet, not sure if they will be implemented in BOB. Amount of commands for AI will be expanded. Structure of the menu will remain the same, but variations will increase.
Aviaforum: When soviet-geman conflict will appear in BOB, how are you planning to develop series even further?
O.M.: BOB will progress identical to IL2 series, it will contain series of simulations which will work together or individually. Dates of the release of eastern front are not known yet. I can only tell that part two will not be dedicated to GPW, we are planning to implement theater that was never introduced in the simulation before.
Aviaforum: What will be expected system requirements? Is it possible to release Benchmark for it?
O.M.: We don¡¯t have exact system requirements yet. All I can say that system that runs IL2 on the max settings will run BOB on lowest ones. I don¡¯t see a reason to make a benchmark, it will be not less then 1GB in size and spending time and resources for something that nobody can pull off the internet is just silly. ¬à.
Aviaforum: How different are physical aspects of the flight model between BOB and IL-2. Will model be completely new or just improved and corrected IL-2 model? Are you planning to model wind?
O.M.: Feel of the flying will not change much. We think that in IL-2 physics are close to reality, so you can correct all you want, general feeling will not change. Simply we`ll add more details. Engine of BOB has nothing in common with engine of IL-2, it`s even written in the different language. We are modeling that only wind, but many other things, for example: thermal up-streams and different cloud effect..
Aviaforum: AI in BOB: seeing behind, accuracy of gunnery, etc¡¦.
O.M.: AI significantly changed and will use a lot more resources than it does now. Visibility from AI perspective is honest even now, it just aces look behind them a lot more often then rookies. Clouds are not see thru for AI and virtual pilots. Accuracy of shooting will depend on g-forces. During active maneuvering accuracy will be reduced and under effect of great forces will not be possible at all. Besides, in BOB crew members will have different skills, meaning pilot could be an ace, but gunners rookies and so on. Difference will be drastic, for rookies we model panic, that is when they shoot all over the place.
Aviaforum: what is the progress of BOB, what stage is it on. When can we get screenshots, videos, ect¡¦.?
O.M.: Not this year.
Aviaforum: Will you improve instruments for making in game tracks?
O.M.: F¬à¬â¬Þ¬Ñ¬ä .trk will not be supported anymore. Format of ntrk will be expanded. Right now I cannot say precisely what kind of tools will be implemented, but it will be greatly increased.. We are not planning to make any utilities for conversion ntrk files in other formats. There are plenty of great programs out there for that purpose.
Aviaforum: Are you planning to make civil aviasimulation?
O.M.: No, we don¡¯t have such resources. This is difficult task for us, since we don¡¯t have specialists with good level of knowledge in some areas, for instance modern navigation systems. That means we have to figure it all out from scratch, but this is time and money, big money.
But we are including SU-26 as a bonus. We are hoping that further development of aerobatics planes will continue and we are planning to support this as much as we can.
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New engine allows to organize combined are for many players. If we get support from the publisher, we are ready to release MMO simulator based on BOB, where not only planes will be controlled by the players, but also tanks, cars, vessels, submarines, basically all elements of warfare that are present in the sim.
Looks like the 1C:Maddox is getting ready to set foot on HTC's turf.
This should be interesting to watch and see how it unfolds.
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::cue music from opening scene of Star Wars::
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Oh, so not only are they NOT gonna release anything to fix glaring errors in some aircraft for the existing titles, but now they're going to transfer it to online format? Great.
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time for HTC to kick AH development into high gear or they gonna be left behind.
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I bet its still gonna be way over the top ... who wants to spend all there time Triming, fuel, oil coolers, ect ect ... when we can Just Up in our Beloved Aces High and Kill kill kill or be killed :D
We could use Submarines ... B-25 ,,, some Russian buffs ,,, B-29 ,,, Nuke,,, a few Xwings .... Hint hint ... ;)
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Originally posted by Saxman
Oh, so not only are they NOT gonna release anything to fix glaring errors in some aircraft for the existing titles, but now they're going to transfer it to online format? Great.
You think AH represents planes without errors?
Check out some LW rides and ridiculous use of flaps in this game..
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I bet its still gonna be way over the top ... who wants to spend all there time Triming, fuel, oil coolers, ect ect ... when we can Just Up in our Beloved Aces High and Kill kill kill or be killed
meee,but then again i like flyin airplanes
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oh snap.
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Originally posted by LLv34 Jarsci
You think AH represents planes without errors?
Check out some LW rides and ridiculous use of flaps in this game..
so they fixed IL2 FB/PF to where you can not use the flaps at any speed and do some crazy things? ( note- I have not flown IL-2/FB/PF in a good 6 months+ )
just because it is possible to use flaps in a ridiculous way in AH2 does not warrant that it was never possible, WW2 pilots just never had the luxury of being able to RE-UP instantly.................... and have you checked out the 109-G2 lately?
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Il2 is great, one of the best ww2 sims ever made except, the Ai sucks, the view system could be updated a little. Why they don't just do those things and make il2 perfect, i don't know.
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Il-2 always felt "mushy" to me.
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Think about it.
Though some subtle differences the both the IL2 and AH FM can be considered pretty much realistic. It's not as if comparing the 'arcadish' Fighter Ace with AH - both are pretty much satisfactory in their own way.
However, on the level of detail and graphical immersion IL2 has AH beat hands down, not to mention it also boasts a very convincing damage modelling system which AH thoroughly lacks, and the general gunnery modelling is also much more realistic than AH, including modelling individual ammunition rounds according to belt composition.
For a very long time now, people have taken comfort and defended AH on the grounds that AH is a MMOG, and IL2 series is a boxed game. Supposedly, those two have different styles of gameplay, so a package game taking on the advantage in so many areas didn't mean much, or so it was said, as long as AH stayed the only on-line game that truly featured WW2 era combat, ever since WB declined and AW went belly up.
Many people, including me, have been thinking about how reality would shift around if something like IL2 presented itself as a real contendor in the MMO market. Well, it appears the fantasy is soon to become reality in perhaps a year or two.
So, when that day comes, how may will truly stay loyal and faithful to AH?
Something is brewing up there which seems to have potential to become a 'better product' than AH. For the first time in many yeats, AH will have a real contendor in the very area it claimed soverignity. If it's a better product indeed, I for one, would not hesitate to cancel subscription and go for the new game.
I mean, in the worst case scenario, their gameplay would be no better than our MA - devoid of strat, overrun by the horde, full of pissful late-war planes in a lame HO and run frenzy. But at least they'll have better looking graphics.
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
so they fixed IL2 FB/PF to where you can not use the flaps at any speed and do some crazy things? ( note- I have not flown IL-2/FB/PF in a good 6 months+ )
just because it is possible to use flaps in a ridiculous way in AH2 does not warrant that it was never possible, WW2 pilots just never had the luxury of being able to RE-UP instantly.................... and have you checked out the 109-G2 lately?
The only thing you can do with the flaps is lower them. If you do above the flap speed, they BREAK and are broken in the position lowered to. Not much of an adavantage unless one plays in a wonderwoman view kiddie dogfight server.
And yup, fly the G-2 alot. What have you noticed out of the norm?
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This sounds to good to be true. The current 64 player servers are a blast. With ground and sea units too wow.
Sounds like WW2OL prerelease hype all over again. Time to wait and see.
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If this makes hitech's gerbils pedal faster to get the theatrethingieiforgotthename out... all good!
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I suspect that in reality, IL2 will never compete on a level that AH2 is on in levels of players and fm accuracy. Oleg has and always will be a fanboi of non allied planes, or better put, an ameri-hater.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
I suspect that in reality, IL2 will never compete on a level that AH2 is on in levels of players and fm accuracy. Oleg has and always will be a fanboi of non allied planes, or better put, an ameri-hater.
Well, that pretty much evens it out for us LW flyers then.. :D
If we could just merge AH and Il2 then the planes would be "good" for everyone right...?
Seriously, IL2 russian iron is a tad too well behaving, but also IL2 incorporates engine management which is really much easier in LW birds than in VVS, so that way you can take most out of LW rides easier.
Also Spitfires are there as lethal and easy as they are in AH , so whats the point about american hater? Jug and P38 suddenly cannot dance around with flaps or something?
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Many people, including me, have been thinking about how reality would shift around if something like IL2 presented itself as a real contendor in the MMO market. Well, it appears the fantasy is soon to become reality in perhaps a year or two.
So, when that day comes, how may will truly stay loyal and faithful to AH?
Me.
I never liked Il-2. Eye candy was great, but thats not why I play games. I'm here for the same reason I was in AW. The same reason I played NWN. The same reason I continue with other online RPGs that I've been involved in for years. The community.
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I think the there is plenty of room and customers for both on the intardnet
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yeah...there are still 15 people playing iENs WBs :rolleyes:
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Me.
I never liked Il-2. Eye candy was great, but thats not why I play games. I'm here for the same reason I was in AW. The same reason I played NWN. The same reason I continue with other online RPGs that I've been involved in for years. The community.
Unfortunately Star, the 'community' itself tends to move around. Like Yeager playfully pointed out, if everyone had it your way people would be still playing WB or AW - games that are relatively inferior in many aspects when compared to AH. Many of the AH folk were once the AW community and the WB community too. In the end, all of them deserted AW and WB in the face of AH. There's no guarantee the same would not happen to AH.
I was once an IL-2 basher too. The first of its series had admittably some issues, and the FM, DM, and GM were quite not perfected yet. However, IMO they've perfected it all. To tell you the truth, apart from some torque characteristics I really don't feel that much difference between IL2 and AH FM nowadays. What I can pull of in a Spit or a 109 in IL2, I can do it in AH, and vice versa. The feeling of each plane's 'edge of the envelope' are also very simular. The only difference I feel in IL2/FB is that the US planes cannot pull that uber-flap crap, and the more variety of situations happening in IL-2 due to the better detailed FM, not to mention also the gunnery feeling a lot more realistic.
Frankly, I don't think this is something to just laugh at. Sooner or later, if they really do put out a MMOG based on IL/2 or BoB engine, I fear the only advantage AH2 would hold over the new game would be that AH2 has lower system requirements.
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Am I gonna have to buy a box game, or can I download it? Will I have to have a cd to play it so it can access files?
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Originally posted by Waffle BAS
Am I gonna have to buy a box game, or can I download it? Will I have to have a cd to play it so it can access files?
(http://matrix.millersamuel.com/wp-content/8ballanswer.gif)
but then consider every new game is downloadable these days.
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'I suspect that in reality, IL2 will never compete on a level that AH2 is on in levels of players and fm accuracy. Oleg has and always will be a fanboi of non allied planes, or better put, an ameri-hater.'
Bohdi now why u saying that ? he dont model your fave plane the way you think it should or what ?????He might not be a fanboi of american planes , he's not american is he ? i know im more partial to brit planes , after all im a brit , does that make me an ameri hater ???? or you just paranoid ? oh and by the way you have flown a world war 2 fighter ??? so how can you say that one flight sim has a better fm than another ????
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I think I'd make an excellent doomsayer.
Now if I can only get me a carboard and a pen...
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What does a box cost 40 USD tops...? The Il2 series can be picked up now for cheap in the bargin bins or the DVD Complete can be picked up for less then the original costs.
No one will download a game the size of BoB or FB-APE-PF except the torrent hounds.
With the Il2 series you don't need a CD / DVD in the drive now.
FB is a lot of fun. Both AH and Il2 are great games but appeal to different folks. I think the AH main game play is just horrible and shows no sign of getting better. I can only play for short periods before logging off. The CT looked interesting but with the recent information I don't think it will appeal much to me, certainly not to box simmers.
But to be fair what Kweassa posted above was originally posted in Russian on a Russian avia forum then translated into English and reposted on the UBI forums almost a week ago.
We don't know exactly what Oleg is talking about here:
If we get support from the publisher, we are ready to release MMO simulator based on BOB, where not only planes will be controlled by the players, but also tanks, cars, vessels, submarines, basically all elements of warfare that are present in the sim.
Based on BoB... What does that mean? A change is graphically content etc...
Allies High need not be concerned about Oleg...
BoB will be whole new series and the new content will be sold separately. Oleg stated a long while back that surveys they did show only around 10% of the folks who bought Il2 / FB play online. HL used to have more folks in the FB room then the AH main. Nightly numbers are down a bit but still on line can be a lot of fun.
Just checking ASE right now there are 3 severs with 128 players max, 2 with 101, 3 with 80, 2 with 70 a bunch with 64 50 32 etc... There's 550 in FB on HL when I last checked.
I have been on private servers for scenario like events where numbers were well over 100. Il2 maps a far smaller then the 512 x 512 used in the AH main. There are plenty of folks in the IL2 community to fill an AH main size server if Oleg goes MMO with out bring in AH'rs.
I know the Finns ran a few scenario like events that filled up so fast I couldn't get a slot.
Point being that HTC and Oleg aren't in direct competion and there's plenty of folks who enjoy both their products and look forward to future developments.
As for FMs, errors and the like AH is no Utopia.
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I stink at IL/FB gunnery
But at the same time I wish AH was more like it as it is too easy and fights are over way too quick
it might be the damage model as well, wings don't fall apart with the frequency they do in AH
nothing harder for me than a real room in hyperlobby with no plane icons, no map icon and cockpits on - I feel like a baby seal everytime I enter one of those
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I can just imagine the tech support....
If their favortism against US planes is the same as they have with LockOn, be prepared for some uber Russian planes over any/all Allied ones.
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Originally posted by LePaul
I can just imagine the tech support....
If their favortism against US planes is the same as they have with LockOn, be prepared for some uber Russian planes over any/all Allied ones.
We've been primed well vs the LA7 waves in the MA.
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Actually, just let me know when it's about week before it's release. :)
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I don't understand, what favoritism against 'US planes'...?
The best planes right now in FB are the P-47D-27 w/150 octane fuel (P-47D). It puts the AH P-47N to shame. They have 5 versions of Mustang. P-51b, P-51C, P-51D-5, P-51-D20 with gyro site and Mustang III with 150 octane. We do a regular thing with the 4th FG. I don't fly P-51s so we were talking on TS with one of them discussing allied planes. He said that with out a doubt the Mustang is the best Ami dog fighter in that game. They are good enough to prove it. In FB there's a much wider variety of Ami planes to choose from then AH. There's over 5 variants of P-40. There's P-38late with 1750HP per eng. The thing is a monster.
In the Pacific they have more F4Us then AH (including the chog and RAF variants) the have 2 F6Fs which I will fly both of those because they awesome fun. P-40s and P-39s are very competitive etc... (they even have the P-63). I fly allot of the Zekes / F4F server and its a lot of fun flying both sides. I never fly any Ami planes in AH. I don't think they are fun. OTOH in FB I would fly the F6Fs as much as possible.
They have so many variants of Spitfires (even one with 25lbs boost). Then there's the Tempest despites it 9lb boost (the big whine is that the RAF got jipped because it doesn't have 13lbs boost) is fun as hell.
We've been primed well vs the LA7 waves in the MA.
Fly on a map with La-7s in FB. They would whup AHs La-7s arse...
Folks complain over there about Mustangs not being able to dogfight like spits (mostly this is due to how the model the fuel tanks). They complain about .50 cal asymmetrical recoil, they complain about everything under the sun. Then there are others who fly them and kick arse and have fun doing it.
BoB will have 6DOF like AH and should be a lot of fun.
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That is not really breaking news in any way. Oleg has been talking about doing this for a long time now since original 1.0 IL2 days. Unfortunately since publisher is still UBI, this MMO is not going to happen (unless they work with some other publisher). Also due to extremely steep system requirements for BoB, it will scare off about 90% of AH player base. Therefore HT can update their 6+ years old engine without any competition. :P
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Will the flight model, and interface still suck?
How about having your head stuck on an unmovable pole?
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Originally posted by Saintaw
If this makes hitech's gerbils pedal faster to get the theatrethingieiforgotthename out... all good!
Gerbils?? Of all the things or animals you could have picked and you went for gerbils?? :O :D
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Unfortunately Star, the 'community' itself tends to move around. Like Yeager playfully pointed out, if everyone had it your way people would be still playing WB or AW - games that are relatively inferior in many aspects when compared to AH. Many of the AH folk were once the AW community and the WB community too. In the end, all of them deserted AW and WB in the face of AH. There's no guarantee the same would not happen to AH.
I was once an IL-2 basher too. The first of its series had admittably some issues, and the FM, DM, and GM were quite not perfected yet. However, IMO they've perfected it all. To tell you the truth, apart from some torque characteristics I really don't feel that much difference between IL2 and AH FM nowadays. What I can pull of in a Spit or a 109 in IL2, I can do it in AH, and vice versa. The feeling of each plane's 'edge of the envelope' are also very simular. The only difference I feel in IL2/FB is that the US planes cannot pull that uber-flap crap, and the more variety of situations happening in IL-2 due to the better detailed FM, not to mention also the gunnery feeling a lot more realistic.
Frankly, I don't think this is something to just laugh at. Sooner or later, if they really do put out a MMOG based on IL/2 or BoB engine, I fear the only advantage AH2 would hold over the new game would be that AH2 has lower system requirements.
I dont disagree with you. You just asked who would stay loyal to AH, and I answered. Me. And you are exactly right, if EA hadn't killed AW, I'd still be there. Crappy graphics, poor damage model, relaxed realism and all the other problems it had. I tried AH back when we still had some hope AW was going to survive, and I didnt like it. I came back reluctantly after AW died, and still didnt like it, didnt come back for years. I LEARNED to like it because I missed the people. They are still here (alot of them). Now for the most part I enjoy flying in AH, but I'm comfortable not flying too. I fly when the mood strikes me, and when I have time, but I keep active here always. Would I ever move? Possible, but it would have to entail an enmasse move of almost all the AW vets to somewhere else. I dont see that happening.
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Originally posted by expat
oh and by the way you have flown a world war 2 fighter ??? so how can you say that one flight sim has a better fm than another ????
Tell ya what there expat... I have more time in, around, and building WW2 fighters, light bombers, and heavy ombers than you'd even think of dreaming of. Then again, thats what I do for a living, restore and maintain vintage fighters. Not just American stuff, but have worked on British, German, and VVS equipment. So, while I am not a WW2 pilot, I have a fair understanding of the period and a fair amount of the aircraft included.
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yeah he changes the oil so he knows how they should fly...
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Heres one thing you have to realize, how far along is this from actually happening? Remember it has to be green-lighted first by Ubisoft, THEN developed, beta-tested, checked, optimized and by then where will AH be? While IL-2 and AH have their differences, I play IL-2 (Pacific Fighters actually) when I want to be a "pilot" and fly against enemy planes in historical sets and missions and not worry about fighting a Spit16 in a P-40E. However, AH2 draws me because of how fun it is to fly with other people and the fun of it all. Until IL-2 can sufficiently capture that feeling and excitement I get in AH2 without it being a lot like WW2OL, then HTC has nothing to worry about.
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BoB won't be out until 2007. An MMO is just as Russians stated. Oleg's been toying with this idea for a long time. He even used to post on this forum a long time ago. Since the original Il2 beta came out he stopped posting here. He mentioned on numerous occasions some interest in an MMO. However, AH is great game unto itself and even if Oleg opened an MMO tomorrow I doubt it would affect AH at all.
HTC has their loyal customers and appeals to a slightly different crowd. Same with Oleg. Plus the system requirements to run BoB are going to be high, Oleg has said this. Not many players (those in AH and in FB) will have the system needed to run an MMO 'BoB'.
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Competition...and choice...is a good thing.
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Originally posted by Bruno
yeah he changes the oil so he knows how they should fly...
LOL, yeah, thats all I do...
You're just like storch, a know nothing blow hard.... You can crawl back under your rock now.
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Originally posted by LePaul
Competition...and choice...is a good thing.
That is a very correct statement.
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I was around long before storch...
You didn't the answer the guys questions anyway, you just pretended that your monkey wrenching means something. With all your 'experience' it should be easy for you to point out where Oleg has got it wrong...
Do you know Oleg's background btw..?
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Originally posted by Bruno
yeah he changes the oil so he knows how they should fly...
Sounds like he's a step up on some of us. Whats your expertise?
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Originally posted by Bruno
I was around long before storch...
Doesn't change the fact that you are a carbon copy of storch.
Originally posted by Bruno
You didn't the answer the guys questions anyway, you just pretended that your monkey wrenching means something. With all your 'experience' it should be easy for you to point out where Oleg has got it wrong...
I think the speeds are off, the handling feels mushy (Don't have an LOA in a 51, but have time in the back seat of a TF, and they fly ALOT different than IL2's), and other than eye candy, I think the feel is wrong. I do however like the damage model, that is much better than here.
Originally posted by Bruno
Do you know Oleg's background btw..?
Kurt Tank's nephew smuggled back to Russia after the war in a cache of leather studded luftwhiner undies????
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I think the feel is wrong
Speeds are off in what plane? Do you know the top speed of say the F6F-5 in FB or any plane for that matter?
You know speeds are off in some AH planes as well right?
As for mushiness that maybe just a matter of adjusting the scaling. Mine are like AHs at 100% across with no deadband no dampening. I don't notice any mushiness. However, others complain of this and others about about bounce. Eric Brown flew FB and was interviewed stating he thought the sticks were too responsive, but what does Eric Brown know. WBs aka mushybirds and TW are much worse then either AH or FB. Are those guys Ami-haters as well?
However, in the next update there will be a new control input feature.
4.06 readme
in 4.06 (SoM) changed following
Joystick control input was changed in accordance with pilots' wishes.
Such function adds feel of the real size control column which is way longer than such of Joysick.
Optimized for default settings of Joystick curves. However for some planes would be better any way exponente.
Doesn't change the fact that you are a carbon copy of storch.
Nah Storch stalked BKs. I care nothing about them. When you make those 'trust ME I am smarter then the rest of ya's' I just tease ya bit. You make dumb statements like Oleg is an Ami-hater and only back it it up with vague:
I think the feel is wrong
You made the claim about restoring old warbirds gives you some kind of special insight in designing FMs (or knowing them). I figured you would at least bothered to take a look at Oleg's background.
Slash,
Sounds like he's a step up on some of us.
Nah, you just need to get up off your kness...
Whats your expertise?
The question is what expertise have I claimed. He claimed Oleg fudges up Ami FMs because he is an Ami-Hater. He hasn't given any speciifcs in how the FMs are fudged or why / how that makes Oleg an Ami-Hater. Just the 'trust me I am smart'.
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Oleg Maddox once stated that American flight data is American manufacture's propaganda to sell a/c.
He has also been brainwash by a former Hungarian poster here with regards to the P-51.
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"Kurt Tank's nephew smuggled back to Russia after the war in a cache of leather studded luftwhiner undies????"
Like you ever flown "Tank" planes in Oleg's games? Ever? Try an FW and you can start talking about mushy controls. If possible e.g. A8 is more of a POS there than it is here. :rofl
On topic I'd say that the engine does not necessarily convert very well into a massively multipalyer network game. Below surface objects, ordnance tracking etc etc. With such graphics the engine barely handles 128 players and more would be impossible without advanced texture and detail reduction techniques. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for its release.
"Sounds like WW2OL prerelease hype all over again. Time to wait and see."
Well said. :)
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"Eric Brown flew FB and was interviewed stating he thought the sticks were too responsive, but what does Eric Brown know."
I guess he should have adjusted the deadbands :D
But if anyone knows the stuff, that's him.
And what about Oleg? I don't know his background, but at least HiTech flew a P51 :D
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"I guess he should have adjusted the deadbands"
IIRC he did and the profile he made was circulated within the community to get the idea of the approximate feel of the real control column on a/c movements.
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Originally posted by MiloMorai
Oleg Maddox once stated that American flight data is American manufacture's propaganda to sell a/c.
He has also been brainwash by a former Hungarian poster here with regards to the P-51.
This is what Oleg said a long time ago prior to introducing the P-51 (AEP):
From American and UK planes sent by lend lease brand new only from BEll manufacture was the same as advertized or even sometime a bit better.
What you'll say for this one? It is from western historian... not from me.
The printed maximum speed in all books for the NA P-51D Mustang is 437 mph at 25,000 ft. Absolute nonsense. The fastest speed ever actually RECORDED for a P-51 ocurred on 20 October 1944, over Henden RAF base, England. Following RAF complaints that the P-51 would not reach the printed speeds, no fewer than 12 Mustangs from various units--two right off the boat, as well--were tested with USAAF pilots. Both theodolite units and radar were used to measure the speed.
The fastest run--I should mention after innumerable flights occupying the whole day--was 416 mph in a P-51B (s/n 36799 "Carolina Hustler"); this speed was sustained only for 10 seconds before the engine became seriously over-boosted. The longest sustained maximum speed recorded was 405 mph for 55 seconds by a brand new P-51D at 23,000 ft. (s/n 472484). Most of the machines in this evaluation were incapable of exceeding 400 mph under any conditions whatever.
The NII VVS tested their P-51B (L-L, s/n 35145) to a maximum of 392 mph at 25,500ft, and climb to 5000m of 6.5 mins. (yes, on 100 octane gas).
You know of the various discussions on various boards over the validity of what Oleg states above. However, the P-51D-20 in FB can reach 438 mph at 25000ft. The AH P-51D (according to the charts on the AH home page) reaches 437mph.
FB P-51b 445mph @ 25500ft
AH P-51b 448mph @ 28000ft
FB folks aren't complaining about the P-51s speed they complain about .50 cals lethality and recoil. They complain about stall and turn etc... They complain about 'wobbles'.
Despite what Oleg said in the quote above his P-51s (speed and climb wise) fit right in with how they are modeled in all the other games. Now folks cry about not having 150pn 8AF Mustangs etc... but I still don't see how that equates to Oleg is an Ami-hater.
If you look at entire Ami plane set many of those aircraft are the most competitive in the game. The P-40s are great. The P-39s as well. I mentioned the P-47D and P-38Late.
You can blame Kurfürst all you want but we fly against a P-51 squad and their opinion is that its the best Ami dog fighter and they can prove it. That's not to say they don't point out a few things they feel are wrong (everyone does that) but they don't come close to reaching 'Ami-Hater' status.
Angus,
I guess he should have adjusted the deadbands
He did and his settings were shared with the communtiy, many still use them to this day. Control issues and mushiness vary I guess. Some people are affected and others aren't. Some folks even have trouble with AH in getting their settings adjusted to their liking. If Bodhi had mushiness probelms then I wouldn't be surprised, it seems quite a few have the same issue. As I said the next patch is supposed to include some sort of control input fix. We will see, maybe it will get worse...
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Here's a link to the article about Eric Brown's testing of FB:
How 'real' are the latest PC sims April 2004 (http://www.raes.org.uk/raes/news/SimReview.pdf) (its PDF)
At the bottom right there's an inset describing Captain Brown's thoguht of the stick / control responses of the aircraft in FB.
His settings make the aircraft far more 'mushy' and 'sluggish' then the default.
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Ill buy it, Ill buy a new PC to play it, Ill buy every add on for it. Ill try it online if it gets to reall (250) numbers.
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Originally posted by Bruno
At the bottom right there's an inset describing Captain Brown's thoguht of the stick / control responses of the aircraft in FB.
His settings make the aircraft far more 'mushy' and 'sluggish' then the default.
hmm - Maybe AH does have a clue to the "feel" of things. Everytime I've tried flying il2, as compared to AH - the planes in il2 seemed lightweight. Basically you could toss em around with hardly any stick movement. AH planes, to me, seem like they have "weight" as compared to the amount of stick input needed.
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Originally posted by Waffle BAS
the planes in il2 seemed lightweight. Basically you could toss em around with hardly any stick movement. AH planes, to me, seem like they have "weight" as compared to the amount of stick input needed.
That is exactly opposite of what I've always thought and said. I can blow on my sticks and do a Split-S.
AH2 feels so nibble and IL-2 planes feels like the AH-2 BF-110.
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There's seems to be a lot of variation is how people percieve the feel. OTOH some will say the controls and very loose and complain of nose bounce or say they feel like they are balanced on a pin head. Others say they are mushy or sluggish. Even folks with the same sticks.
Oleg's settings are a little more loose then what shown in the Eric Brown interview.
However, lots of folks seem to have issues with the control reponses and Oleg has announced a change coming in the next patch. 4.06 readme:
in 4.06 (SoM) changed following
Joystick control input was changed in accordance with pilots' wishes.
Such function adds feel of the real size control column which is way longer than such of Joysick.
Optimized for default settings of Joystick curves. However for some planes would be better any way exponente.
Personally, I am happy with how I have mine stick set up now.
YMMV
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Cool! Online WWII Air combat for the Swag once again!!!
I have missed taking to the virtual skies! :O