Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Mako15 on August 07, 2006, 07:06:31 AM
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Howdy guys, <
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So I want to know, how many of the people who complain about la-7s and spit16s have actually spent time with the planes and worked out other tactics than HO'ing and BnZ? Cause you can't really expect people to use them properly if you don't show them how, eh? Every once in a while, I fly them myself....(usually when one blasts me out of the sky in my bravopony, and I get angry, :P)
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I have had many attempt the HO and they aren't in just La-7s or Spit16s.
Every pony pilot I run into tries to HO starting at 1.2 out.
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Originally posted by Mako15
Howdy guys, <>
So I want to know, how many of the people who complain about la-7s and spit16s have actually spent time with the planes and worked out other tactics than HO'ing and BnZ? Cause you can't really expect people to use them properly if you don't show them how, eh? Every once in a while, I fly them myself....(usually when one blasts me out of the sky in my bravopony, and I get angry, :P)
The only planes I could NOT outturn on a regular basis were the Zeke's and Spit/Hurry 1's. I turnfought in the La7, and became bored after a few months in AH1. I find it pathetic that 90% do nothing but HO or BnZ. They're too ignorant to realize the turning potential of the La7. Now I enjoy shooting em down on a regular basis with a 30+ enemy plane.
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LA7 is a very great fighter. It can do anything and with its engine go vert when slow and catch something. Or it can scissor well. It can do everything well. Then run home with those kills you wanted to land.
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The hardest part of turnfighting the La7, and the thing that 99% do wrong in every plane but is particularly bad in the LA7, is they never chop the throttle. Lots of folks think the La7 (and several other planes) dont turn well because they never back out of WEP. They throw it too the stop and run wide open, but the key to the La7 (and again several others but the La7 in particular) is throttle control because of its incredible acceleration. Learn to use the throttle, which in the La7 can mean long periods at 0% throttle, and it can turn with almost anything.
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I'm flying the Spit 16 primarily now. In my limited experience, it's nowhere near as effective in a HO shot as the Hurri is, so I've actually had to shoot a few people down from behind this camp. I guess that means I've kinda worked out other tactics.
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Glad to see you've moved past the easy mode planeset, Hubs. I'm sure it will help you move your game up to the next level...lord knows you're progress has been stalled for a while now....
:lol :lol
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yea LA7 is Great TurnFighter if you know how to abuse it lol, You can almost turn with a Spit16 if you work the Engine right >=P
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This post is about people complaing that the la7 and spit16 aren't good enough???????? :lol
........and now back to your sponsers.
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PERK THE SPIT 16!:cool:
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Originally posted by Grits
The hardest part of turnfighting the La7, and the thing that 99% do wrong in every plane but is particularly bad in the LA7, is they never chop the throttle. Lots of folks think the La7 (and several other planes) dont turn well because they never back out of WEP. They throw it too the stop and run wide open, but the key to the La7 (and again several others but the La7 in particular) is throttle control because of its incredible acceleration. Learn to use the throttle, which in the La7 can mean long periods at 0% throttle, and it can turn with almost anything.
Yep, and add to the fact I rarely deployed flaps, I used throttle control.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I'm flying the Spit 16 primarily now. In my limited experience, it's nowhere near as effective in a HO shot as the Hurri is, so I've actually had to shoot a few people down from behind this camp. I guess that means I've kinda worked out other tactics.
My biggest frustration, for lack of a better word, is that you can bet the house that any 4 cannon bird you see is going to HO regardless of the circumstances. I spend a lot of time in the 38G ducking those guys.
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LA 7 is a great ride but the 16 is better.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
is going to HO regardless of the circumstances.
Everyone HOs, last night for example, I was engaged with no less than 5 and every single one of them tried for it. Even the C202 in the mix fired!
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Originally posted by Delirium
Everyone HOs, last night for example, I was engaged with no less than 5 and every single one of them tried for it. Even the C202 in the mix fired!
I was over A28 last night beofre the Nights captured it. I was in a Spit 5. I had 7 cons simultaneously HO. They all missed, but amongst the chaos, I was blindsided. It still isn't saying much for the 7 chodes.
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From what Ive been reading Ive got the impression that the La7 is faster in this game than it was in real life but I have not found solid data yet. I have learned that we are very lucky the Yak3 isnt in the game because the same ho-masters would fly it poorly too and its even faster. My favorite planes to shoot in the head are bombers and la7s and in the case of la7s I will shoot them even with ten other higher cons in the area. They deserve no better especially when they are at 20k practicing their ho-art.
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How did HOs work in real life?
Not done..it's suicide?
Only when the numbers were against you.
It didn't happen at all.
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hehe I just wish we had some Mig-3s then I'd give those La-7s a run for their money
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Originally posted by Ray77
How did HOs work in real life?
Not done..it's suicide?
Only when the numbers were against you.
It didn't happen at all.
JG26 "Abbeville Kids" and their Yellow-Nosed 190's struck fear into the Allied Bombers by HO'ing them. It was their preferred tactic, because that is one of the most vulnerable areas.
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How did HOs work in real life?
Not done..it's suicide?
Only when the numbers were against you.
It didn't happen at all.
From what I understand, Ray, HOs were a valid tactic but often considered very risky.
The one, singlemost difference between real-life HOs and and game HOs is that in real life when you die you die. Therefore, HOing was a risky maneuver with a very small window of opportunity to try and land a shot, and then the pilot would have to immediately maneuver out of the way to avoid collision.
Besides, the very meaning of combat maneuvering lies in trying to maneuver in a certain manner so you can defeat the enemy without being harmed yourself. No matter how advantageous firepower a plane holds, HOs always maintained a certain risk that the enemy will land a shot to your plane - in the worst case, a shot landing on the cockpit area where protection was minimal. Therefore, it took balls, and absolute faith in one's own firepower (or gunnery skill) and the toughness of the plane, to carry out a HO. Even then a HO would be the least preferable choice of engaging an enemy.
The problem with game HOs is that the sense of peril is very much dulled, since we aren't really scared of dying in the game. Therefore what, usually happens is people rely on reckless HOs. Not only do they do it a lot, but also the HO itself is more of a "chicken" contest you'd see in movies, than just 'brushing by, trying to land a brief shot'. Two planes would just head smack into each other on a crash course with guns blazing.. and nine times out of ten results in collisions rather than a shot landing.
Thus, instead of trying to work out a certain logical plan in defeating the enemy, many people just rely on maneuverable planes, trying to bear their guns on the enemy plane in whatever way they can. Typically the fight degenerates into a HO contest - with every turn and circle made resulting in a HO after a HO, until one side loses either by being shot, or by result of collision.
In the case of the Fw190s the HO tactics were a carefully calculated risk. The earlier B-17s had weak protection at the nose and the number of defensive guns an interceptor would face became minimal when attacking from the front. Therefore, the interceptors would find the stream of B-17s, fly ahead, turn around and attack the bombers from the front. This was an effective tactic since bombers were farely large targets flying at a steady course and speed. Careful planning and execution minimized the risk of mid-air collisions while maximizing the chances of survival for the 190s. It also maximized the effect of the attack, since a successful attack would utterly rip apart the cockpits of the bombers, rendering them helpless.
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Originally posted by Delirium
Everyone HOs, last night for example, I was engaged with no less than 5 and every single one of them tried for it. Even the C202 in the mix fired!
I'd have HOed ya too you rotten so and so :)
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Originally posted by Chalenge
From what Ive been reading Ive got the impression that the La7 is faster in this game than it was in real life but I have not found solid data yet. I have learned that we are very lucky the Yak3 isnt in the game because the same ho-masters would fly it poorly too and its even faster. My favorite planes to shoot in the head are bombers and la7s and in the case of la7s I will shoot them even with ten other higher cons in the area. They deserve no better especially when they are at 20k practicing their ho-art.
Yak 3 is no faster than La-7. Yak-3 has the same engine as the standard Yak-9 or Yak-9T (VK-105) but it is as light as the A6M zero
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i fly the la7 once in a while......
i have found that most enemy planes actually try to ho me...i have no idea why...the la7 is a better hoer than anything but a 110/il2.
when i see guys type about being ho'd by a la7 i hafta ask myself why did they not decide before less then 1k out to maneuver for anything else???
is plain goofy..then i realize that most guys who hate the la7 and whine about ho's are skilless pilots and darwin is smiling as they die...
and yes the la7 is a wonderful knife fiter...i would rather turnfite almost anything then take a chance at winning a ho.....
but i hardly ever fly one so this is just my theoretical ideas....
DARWIN - 1
WHINERS - 0
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I got nothing against any of those planes, in fact the Spitfire is one of my favorite real life planes. The truth is anybody can fly any plane any way they want, as far as BnZ and Ho'in goes it's just the nature of the beast. When i see somebody heading straight at me i offset so they got no shot. BnZ, i use the BnZ defence technique, it works, but if somebody has an advantage theres not much you can do, these are just facts of life, i just live with it, For instance, I think half the times i hear people yelling about ramming it's actually an accident and their just mad they got hit.
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Originally posted by Ray77
How did HOs work in real life?
Not done..it's suicide?
Only when the numbers were against you.
It didn't happen at all.
Qh yea and Ray, every tactic in this game that is considered dirty and risky was seriously used in real life, so i find it a little funny that people complain about it here. I can't tell you the war stories i've read where i've heard them do much, much worse, so a little Ho'ing and ramming is nothing, they actually did this stuff which actually tells me how horrible and desperate a real war must be. It must be hell!!! :confused: :O
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Originally posted by SAS_KID
LA7 is a very great fighter. It can do anything and with its engine go vert when slow and catch something. Or it can scissor well. It can do everything well. Then run home with those kills you wanted to land.
la7's are bait on the plate!:aok
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where's Shane?
:(
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Originally posted by Stang
where's Shane?
:(
HAAAAAARRRRRRRRR
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Lately, Ive taken the "cant beat em, join em" approach. While I love my P-38s, I cant do the stuff Corky does (He *must* be high on Nyquil to do those things!). So I've been upping the Spit16 and shooting the fellas down. Heck they cant do anything wrong, awesome guns, fast, turn...why learn a plane when you can just fly this thing? :cool:
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Originally posted by Grits
The hardest part of turnfighting the La7, and the thing that 99% do wrong in every plane but is particularly bad in the LA7, is they never chop the throttle. Lots of folks think the La7 (and several other planes) dont turn well because they never back out of WEP. They throw it too the stop and run wide open, but the key to the La7 (and again several others but the La7 in particular) is throttle control because of its incredible acceleration. Learn to use the throttle, which in the La7 can mean long periods at 0% throttle, and it can turn with almost anything.
VERY true and some flaps will turn inside a niki. I'm just so glad the thing has poor gas to miles. Them nasty in the right hands.
Spits.... try and stay with a spit when it does 180 over it's right shoulder...ooopps enough said :D
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Originally posted by Ray77
How did HOs work in real life?
Not done..it's suicide?
Only when the numbers were against you.
It didn't happen at all.
watched a show about Brit aces and one old timer said he went HO every time a con came at him from the sun. He didn't see he shot anything but the geezer is stil here telling the tales.
Personally I take HO shots when I'm in the crap 3 on 1 typer thing but Lgay freaks are so easy to out turn in a 1 on 1.....usually kill um.
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Originally posted by outbreak
yea LA7 is Great TurnFighter if you know how to abuse it lol, You can almost turn with a Spit16 if you work the Engine right >=P
You CAN turn with a Spit16... Their turn radius is nearly identical, but the La-7 gets around the circle faster, meaning that it will eventually close from behind. It does, however, take a pretty good pilot to fly the La-7 at its limits, where a somewhat less skilled jock can do the same with the Spit16.
Of course, the 109G-2 is a match for either.... Especially when at or below 150 mph.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by LYNX
VERY true and some flaps will turn inside a niki. I'm just so glad the thing has poor gas to miles. Them nasty in the right hands.
Spits.... try and stay with a spit when it does 180 over it's right shoulder...ooopps enough said :D
With equal pilots, the N1K2-J will easily out-turn either the La-7 or the Spit16. The Niki can dominate the 109F-4 in a stall-fight, and the 109F-4 owns the Spit16 and La-7 in a low speed turning contest.
Come to the TA some evening gents, and be enlightened... ;)
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by 1K3
Yak 3 is no faster than La-7. Yak-3 has the same engine as the standard Yak-9 or Yak-9T (VK-105) but it is as light as the A6M zero
Yak-3 began with the VK-105 but later on had the VK-107 and was faster than the Yak-9 or La7. I suspect only a Russian could explain why the -3 was refined along different lines than the -9 but built at the same time. Makes no sense to me but thats what Im reading.
Ask yourself how a lighter plane with the same engine goes no faster? It also had less frontal area a cut down fuselage and oil cooler in the wing rather than under the chin.
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Originally posted by FALCONWING
when i see guys type about being ho'd by a la7 i hafta ask myself why did they not decide before less then 1k out to maneuver for anything else???
is plain goofy..then i realize that most guys who hate the la7 and whine about ho's are skilless pilots and darwin is smiling as they die...
It doesnt take much imagination to see circumstances in which the La7 could ho a plane that cant turn away. A plane diving on a field to drop ord on a target can be hit ho very easily. I love doing it to diving arados for instance. There is nothing they can do to avoid my fire aside from shedding their wings.
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The Yak-3 with the VK107 engine is a Korean War fighter. It missed WWII.
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This post is about people complaing that the la7 and spit16 aren't good enough????????
yes this particular breed of person is called "homosexual"
jk
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Originally posted by Karnak
The Yak-3 with the VK107 engine is a Korean War fighter. It missed WWII.
Really? Service deliveries began in January 1944 is what Im reading. In July of 1944 a force of 18 Yak-3 (107s) met 30 LW fighters a mix of 109s and 190s and shot down 15 for the loss of one Yak. The Normandie-Niemen Group changed from the Yak-9 to the Yak-3 (107s) and their last 99 kills of a 273 kill tally were with that plane.
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Come to the TA some evening gents, and be enlightened...
WORD!!!!!!
The man knows his stuff and has absolutley no problem showing you.You do learn something everyday.
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ditto. I felt like a noob all over again after a few brief sorties against him. On the upside, I did get him to dip a wingtip in the drink... once. The other 10 times, I just got shot quite a bit.
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omg all i ever see in the H2H are la7s and Spit16s, and the #@%(*^! C-Hogs won't leave my poor nikie alone:cry
is there a way to activate the whole perk thing in a H2H rooms? so sum1 can't up a perked plane till they get "x" amount of kills?
No doubt the the La7 and the Spitfire mk 16 are exceptional planes, it's that i'm just seein way too many of em, how bout sum variety?
maybe i'll just deactivate them in my rooms.
or maybe i should go to bed.
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maybe i'll just deactivate them in my rooms.
The only reason i leave the Spit16 on in my room is because it carry's rockets and we use it for the jousting scenario's.
I did how ever see a spit-16 come up behind a set of B-17's and fire the rockets on it taking the B-17 out, was quite funny.
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Really? Service deliveries began in January 1944 is what Im reading. In July of 1944 a force of 18 Yak-3 (107s) met 30 LW fighters a mix of 109s and 190s and shot down 15 for the loss of one Yak. The Normandie-Niemen Group changed from the Yak-9 to the Yak-3 (107s) and their last 99 kills of a 273 kill tally were with that plane.
Out of some 4,400+ Yak-3s, only 100 of them were (much experimentally) mounted with the VK-107 and even fewer saw combat, with the majority of its operations as an active service plane taking place in 1945. By then, all of of the VK-107s produced were reallocated to be mounted on the Yak-9U, a plane that was specifically designed with the VK-107 in mind.
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Originally posted by LePaul
Lately, Ive taken the "cant beat em, join em" approach. While I love my P-38s, I cant do the stuff Corky does (He *must* be high on Nyquil to do those things!). So I've been upping the Spit16 and shooting the fellas down. Heck they cant do anything wrong, awesome guns, fast, turn...why learn a plane when you can just fly this thing? :cool:
IMHO thats BS (pardon the harsh words). To fly a Spit16 *well* - to use its strenghts and avoid its weaknesses, you need to work just as you have to in any other plane.
Yes, the Spit16 is late war. Yes, it got good roll, climb, not bad turn. But its still as killable as anything else.
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Originally posted by Schatzi
IMHO thats BS (pardon the harsh words). To fly a Spit16 *well* - to use its strenghts and avoid its weaknesses, you need to work just as you have to in any other plane.
Yes, the Spit16 is late war. Yes, it got good roll, climb, not bad turn. But its still as killable as anything else.
How do I say this nicely....dude, Im a bomber dweeb. I stink in fighters. Yet that thing makes me look like el-ace-a-roonni
:p
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How much 'work' does it need to turn with an enemy plane, compared to the amount of work needed to do so in a 109 or a 190?
Or, how much 'work' does it need to aim and shoot down an enemy plane with a AH-brand Hizooka, as compared to perhaps a contemporay plane armed with say, an AH MG151 or a MK108?
Hey, this all means the plane was that good. No doubt about it. However, I'd make some reservations in saying you need to 'work hard' to get kills in a Spit16 - because clearly, you don't. Oh I suppose you'd need some 'work', since the MA is already infested with Spit16s, so the majority of the time one would probably meet a hostile Spit16, thus offsetting its advantage. But that's only because the Spit16 is popular.
And if it needs so much work, why'd it be popular in the first place?
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Originally posted by LePaul
How do I say this nicely....dude, Im a bomber dweeb. I stink in fighters. Yet that thing makes me look like el-ace-a-roonni
:p
Actually, the proper form of address for Schatzi would be "dudette". :)
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Originally posted by Yoshimbo
omg all i ever see in the H2H are la7s and Spit16s, and the #@%(*^! C-Hogs won't leave my poor nikie alone:cry
is there a way to activate the whole perk thing in a H2H rooms? so sum1 can't up a perked plane till they get "x" amount of kills?
No doubt the the La7 and the Spitfire mk 16 are exceptional planes, it's that i'm just seein way too many of em, how bout sum variety?
maybe i'll just deactivate them in my rooms.
or maybe i should go to bed.
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If you are annoyed with dealing with a combo of seven La7s and Spit16s in H2H, you're gonna HATE the MA :D
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Well, I did not know it takes work to turn (pull the stick) or shoot guns (pull the triger).
Turning means nothing. ( Horse power however, may make a difference. ) It is all about how you fight the fight. Its a chess game. Just because something is fast or turns good it does not make it a good fighter. Last I checked D9s were pretty fast but no one is crying about how good of a killer they are.
Now, if you go in there and all you do is flat turns fighting a guy that does flat turns, yes, the better turner will win. But thats your fault, not the planes.
I just did a quick check. Spit16 vs P40 (31 to 22) not a big difference I would say.
:D
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Theres a few reasons for guys to headon.
New guy and shoots at whatever is there
Plane he is in is so fast he can never get a 6 shot becuase people turn
Plane so slow hes in he cant ever catch anything
Middle of a 3 on 1 and takes what he can get
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Filth wrong thread, you want the HO thread verbal started.
http://us.f398.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter?MsgId=2870_4092985_18992_1573_755_0_4888_-1_0&Idx=7&YY=75512&inc=25&order=down&sort=date&pos=0&view=&head=&box=Inbox
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The Luftwaffe used HO attacks on bomber formations because they were exposed to defensive fire for shorter periods of time and because they could get a better shot on the cockpit of the bombers. Remember that at this stage of the war the LW was concerned not only with shooting down bombers, but also with maintaining a sustainable loss rate. We all know (or should) how suicidal it is to approach bombers from the aft quarter when a reasonable gunner is aiming back at you.
The problem of the spit16 and la7 is that they are both overbalanced for the main arena, and thus they become crutches for pilots who have a lot more to learn. In unskilled hands they can still be shot down, but even in mediocer hands they are potent. Both are faster than just about anything else, and both turn and climb at insane rates. I'm not sure if this performance is historical for these models or not, but lets assume they are.
The devs put the perk system in the game to help even things out, and so more advanced aircraft could be included without having the sky full of 262s all the time. I see no reason whatsoever why the f4u1c should be perked and not these planes. Actually I think the spit 16 and la7 should be perked way higher than the charlie.
In real life, war was about winning. This is a game. There should be balance. The La7s and spit16s throw off any kind of balance in the game, unless we all just 'join them' as someone said. I see this as a cop out. Any time I participate in an attack, almost all I see upping to defend are spit16s and la7s.
I'm not saying that they should be taken out of the game, or even heavily perked, but I think it would be beneficial to the game balance and the sense of emmersion to perk them around 20-25 points each.
If we don't perk them, then people have no real incentive to fly anything else. Leaving things as is allows people to mask a lack of skill by flying an (almost) absolutely superior performing aircraft.
Perk these planes and people will be forced to learn how to fly them right, and will be forced to think twice about taking them up. We'll also see a much greater variety of aircraft being flown in the MA. Wouldn't we all (except the potatos who perpetually fly these types) benefit from that?
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Spit V: 6478 produced
Spit VIII: 1652 produced
Spit IX: 7180 produced
Spit XIV: 957 produced
Spit XVI: 1054 produced
most other variants are in the hundreds
http://www.spitfiresociety.demon.co.uk/whatmark.htm
Yak1: 8721 produced
Yak7: 6399 produced
Yak9: 14579 produced (during the war)
"From mid-1944 onwards the Yak-9 was the numerically most important Soviet fighter."
Mig1 & Mig3: 3422 produced
LA7: 5753 produced
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/history/marshall/military/airforce/sov_mil.txt
These aren't 'official' sources, but they aren't too bad.
I don't see anything resembling the ratios of spits in the MA. The LA7 comes closer, but given the expanse of the Russian front I think it's safe to say that they would not have been encountered in such dense numbers as we see them in the MA. If anything we should be flooded with Yak9s and Spit9s.
Please perk these planes so we can still fly them and so that they won't be abused, as is currently the case.
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You know, really, what's the difference if they're perked or not. The same sort of fellow who'll happily be 4th man in when you're already outnumbered 3 v 1 will do the same thing regardless of what plane he's in.
You guys don't want to change the planes, you want to change the attitude. Good luck with that.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
JG26 "Abbeville Kids" and their Yellow-Nosed 190's struck fear into the Allied Bombers by HO'ing them. It was their preferred tactic, because that is one of the most vulnerable areas.
Wasnt that why the chin turret was added to the B-17?
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Originally posted by FALCONWING
i fly the la7 once in a while......
i have found that most enemy planes actually try to ho me...i have no idea why...the la7 is a better hoer than anything but a 110/il2.
when i see guys type about being ho'd by a la7 i hafta ask myself why did they not decide before less then 1k out to maneuver for anything else???
is plain goofy..then i realize that most guys who hate the la7 and whine about ho's are skilless pilots and darwin is smiling as they die...
and yes the la7 is a wonderful knife fiter...i would rather turnfite almost anything then take a chance at winning a ho.....
but i hardly ever fly one so this is just my theoretical ideas....
DARWIN - 1
WHINERS - 0
If I was gonna HO I'd take 4 Hizooka's over 3 B-20's or 2 Shvaks any day.
Sometimes you dont have the speed/energy to manuever away from the HO in time. That's happened to me before, especially when flying the Hurricane and just finishing one fight and along comes someone trying to HO heh.
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Originally posted by 68Hawk
The Luftwaffe used HO attacks on bomber formations because they were exposed to defensive fire for shorter periods of time and because they could get a better shot on the cockpit of the bombers. Remember that at this stage of the war the LW was concerned not only with shooting down bombers, but also with maintaining a sustainable loss rate. We all know (or should) how suicidal it is to approach bombers from the aft quarter when a reasonable gunner is aiming back at you.
It was their prefered method of attack versus B-17s because of the poor forward defenses of the early B-17s. The G model added the twin .50s in the chin. If you read around a bit, you will find that the German pilots didn't want to attack from head on, it was simply the most effective way. The risk of collision was very great. Think about it, 2 planes with a closure rate of somewhere near 600 mph and it wasn't just 1 plane, the sky was full of them. Unlike us...they only had 1 life and no do-overs. :D
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Exactly, they didn't want to attack head on, but it beat any other method of attacking massed bomber formations with single engine fighters. It limited their exposure to defensive fire while giving them the most opportune, if short, shot at the bombers vulnerable spots.
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Originally posted by 68Hawk
Exactly, they didn't want to attack head on, but it beat any other method of attacking massed bomber formations with single engine fighters. It limited their exposure to defensive fire while giving them the most opportune, if short, shot at the bombers vulnerable spots.
Until the chin turret was added to the B-17, then those attacks became alot more dangerous.
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Until the chin turret was added to the B-17, then those attacks became alot more dangerous.
Well of course, but a pass from the front would still leave a fighter exposed to the defensive fire for far less than an approach from the rear.
Also, the B17G entered service in late 1943, about the time that escort fighters were becoming more and more frequent companions to the bombers. As time went on, between the escort fighters and the bombers effects on the German production industries, the Luftwaffe became evermore incapable of effectively intercepting the large raids on their homeland. Within 9-12 months of the B17Gs deployment, fighter opposition to the bomber fleets would have been practically reduced to a state of innefectiveness.
Too bad for the Luftwaffe that Galland's reccomendations weren't acted upon until 1944, when it was too late to really make a difference in the stategic air war. Good for us though!
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So in most months do the La7 & Spit 16 have high k/d ratios? Good sticks & bad sticks fly every model, so most of the time I see La7s & Spits die just as fast as anything else. If you wanna HO, use an A8. BTW, if 7 nme " HO" you & all miss those were probably "passing shots" & not true HOs.
-MI-
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spit 16's and La7's become AMAZINGLY courteous when you fly a jug for a living:lol :lol
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PERK THE SPIT 16!
I couldn't agree more.
The performance of this plane just exceeds the unperked class imho.
If not, then how about leveling the playing field a bit by unperking something like the F4U-4? It has no 5k/min climb or ungodly acceleration, so why not?.
Frankly, the criteria for perking makes no sense to me at all, but then niether does a cow flying a plane, so there you go.
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(http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/deadhorse.gif)
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Originally posted by 68Hawk
Well of course, but a pass from the front would still leave a fighter exposed to the defensive fire for far less than an approach from the rear.
Also, the B17G entered service in late 1943, about the time that escort fighters were becoming more and more frequent companions to the bombers. As time went on, between the escort fighters and the bombers effects on the German production industries, the Luftwaffe became evermore incapable of effectively intercepting the large raids on their homeland. Within 9-12 months of the B17Gs deployment, fighter opposition to the bomber fleets would have been practically reduced to a state of innefectiveness.
Too bad for the Luftwaffe that Galland's reccomendations weren't acted upon until 1944, when it was too late to really make a difference in the stategic air war. Good for us though!
Head on shots are going faster and there fore hit with more velocity.........right?? Someone who knows please elaborate.
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you dont need a yak-3 you need a tempest or a p51D.
skyrock yes youre correct.
at 400yrds theoretically you will a do far more damage to your opponent in a head on closing shot than you would if you were chasing them.
this is partly to do with the speeds of approach, like with any type of collision in physics, and it is also to do with the fact that the rounds you fire at 400yrds most likely will only travel 200 or so yards before hitting the target, whereas in a trailing shot they must travel the full range apon being fired, or more.
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Dear God! That' s hard to watch.
If you want to tenderize the meat, try reading sad cow interest stories to the cow prior to killing it, i.e.....
the cow ran for home in his 109 K4 when alas, a mean rancher in Spit 16 dived on him from above, He was butchered, packaged unceremoniously and distributed to the evil rook and nit chow halls.
He should have been able to get away, but HTC hates cows and other living things, and so they make the Spit 16 available upon request to the cow killing hordes.
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Shane sucks, let your boyfriend rest in peace.;)
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Originally posted by Lemoo
, but HTC hates cows and other living things, .
most certainly not true! HT owned a flock of sheep in AH1 that, numerically, was second to none in the universe.
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Dam the spit 16.. Only newbs fly such a killing machine with its great guns along with a climb rate that would give you a nose bleed. Such a plane is not worth the time it takes to master our landing 10 kills per sortie out numbered. I guess that my ego and skills will have the best of me so i fly 38's, f4u, and yes the great p40..
Please don't take this wrong but anyone that fly's a 16 has no skills. Their are only a hand full of guys that use the 16 to it's potential. To bad its part of the late war so people that complain about 16 don't fly in mid our early war. That would be tooooo easy....
Skill es dweebs
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Originally posted by Platano
spit 16's and La7's become AMAZINGLY courteous when you fly a jug for a living:lol :lol
I have been flying a jug lately and it seems hos happen less. Maybe the ones that dont ho a 47 dont want 6000 rounds per minute in their face.:D
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Whats to know? they are two of the best turn fighters in the game, and can catch most other fighters if they run, why would you have to HO?
Is it a trick question?
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las and spits are tasty in my ponyb i have more kills of those airplnes each tour than any other, `they fall for the rope more often than not, thnking they have to e to catch me,
Pawned:)
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Originally posted by Chalenge
From what Ive been reading Ive got the impression that the La7 is faster in this game than it was in real life but I have not found solid data yet.
Much of the data supplied by the Stalinist era USSR is suspect. Numbers for performance were wildly exagerated in order to prove the superiority of Communist design and production.
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I turn fight anything in a K4 including la7's and spit16's, but if i end up frontal in a rev I WILL take the shot. I'm done trying to avoid HO's finding myself fluttering down wingless 1 sec later, and wondering why the other plane couldn't return the favour of not taking the frontal shot. And if people accuse me of HO then, I don't care anymore.
The only time I will not take the frontal shot is in the DA, in the MA ur dead!
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This thread is just as gay as it was 2 months ago, when it died the first time. Digging for buried treasure, Lemoo?
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I don't have foggiest idea what you're talking hubs. I'm just saying that I agree that the Spit 16 should be perked.
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Originally posted by Lemoo
I don't have foggiest idea what you're talking hubs. I'm just saying that I agree that the Spit 16 should be perked.
Don't worry about Hub, he's the pea in the pod that didn't quite make it to peadom!:aok
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Originally posted by FALCONWING
i have found that most enemy planes actually try to ho me...i have no idea why...the la7 is a better hoer than anything but a 110/il2.
I'll see your 110, IL2, LA7 and rais you a YAK9T :D