Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: tikky on August 11, 2006, 01:57:45 AM
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By Stefan Theil
Newsweek International
Aug. 14, 2006 issue
Europe could use more people like Ehssan Dariani. The 26-year-old entrepreneur runs a hot Internet start-up called studiVZ—Europe's fastest-growing social network for university students. Since setting up in a cheap Berlin loft only last fall, he's already hired 25 people. Yet when Dariani looks back at his high-school days, a decade ago in the west German city of Kassel, he remembers his teachers warning against exactly what he's doing. "They taught us the market economy was a dangerous wilderness full of risk and bankruptcy," Dariani says. "We never learned how prices affect supply and demand, only about evil managers and unjust wages." If he'd listened to his teachers, he'd be among the vast majority of German students who dream of becoming civil servants or fitting into the comfortable hierarchy of a traditional corporation. Instead he set out and created some desperately needed jobs.
Ask any European what he learned at school about how the economy works, and you'll likely hear a similar story. A recent study of German high-school textbooks by the Institute for the German Economy, in Cologne, found entrepreneurs—instead of getting credit for creating jobs—taking the blame for everything from unemployment to alcoholism to Internet fraud and cell-phone addiction. Some high-school social-studies textbooks teach globalization as an unmitigated catastrophe; students are advised to consult the radical anti-globalization protest group Attac for further information. In France, books approved by the Education Ministry promote statist policies and voodoo economics. "Economic growth imposes a way of life that fosters stress, nervous depression, circulatory disease and even cancer," reports "20th-Century History," a popular high-school text published by Hatier. Another suggests Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan were dangerous free-market extremists whose reforms plunged their countries into chaos and despair.
Such blatant disinformation sheds new light on the debate over why it is that Europeans lag so far behind Americans in rates of entrepreneurship and job creation. It also helps explain widespread resistance among Europeans to accepting even the smallest reforms of their highly regulated economies...
(continue @ http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14206355/)
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"Ask any European what he learned at school about how the economy works, and you'll likely hear a similar story."
Hmm.. I wonder.
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Are you really surprised? The socialists feel threatened, so they fight back through one of their only weapons.
State funded education.
Btw, the dude directly ripped his idea off of Facebook.
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US kids undergo similar things.... one only needs to see everyone's suprise when the price of most any commodity goes goes up after some sort of disaster befalls production of said commodity.
There only reaction is.. "it's not fair!" "The government oughta regulate the price..."
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I disagree. It's not that US Kids will not be taught basic economics. It's that they haven't taken it yet. Or that the class isn't mandated much like history, trig or literature.
I do think that it should be a mandated class, Freshman year or so. It's not difficult math, so that's not an excuse to not teach them.
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They should better teach Marxism.
"Credit for creating jobs" - what a nonsence. Making profit is now a form of charity, OMG!
Adam Smith and Marx explained how capitalism works. In US school a macroeconomics class was a total nonsence for me, explained obvious things, telling blatant lies about Socialism at the same time. All that stuff was explained from the basics in Soviet school in a Sociology (obschestvovedenie) class, in less then one semester, together with philosophy of dialectical materialism and hallucinatory historical materialism.
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boroda... we don't even need marx to explain how communism works...
We have all the examples we will ever need..... All those sucessful communist countries...
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
boroda... we don't even need marx to explain how communism works...
We have all the examples we will ever need..... All those sucessful communist countries...
lazs
Way to go CHINA!:cool:
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Originally posted by 1K3
Way to go CHINA!:cool:
(http://www.trdparts.com/AH/asdf/revo1.jpg)
(http://www.trdparts.com/AH/asdf/revo2.jpg)
Gotta watch out for those dangerous, greedy, capitalist thought crimes... like lending somebody money and expecting to be paid back...
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Originally posted by tikky
By Stefan Theil
Newsweek International
Aug. 14, 2006 issue
(continue @ http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14206355/)
It's the same reason that we teach kids the about the market economy in America. It's more about spreading an ideology than sharing a philosophy. In that respect, we're not much different.
We teach kids about the evils of socialism, and force a little bit of basic economics on everyone, but we never really get to the philosophy behind capitalism, the socialist's critique of capitalism, and whether or not the capitalist can properly address the socialist.
One thing that is certain is that we definitely need to share more equipment from the businessman's toolbox with the public. Accounting, Finance, and Economics really need a little more prominence in a person's studies.
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Again, I disagree. We force economics on no one. There are very few people out there that understand basic level economics.
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Originally posted by 1K3
Way to go CHINA!:cool:
Heh, China became successful after it turned from communism to capitalism.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Again, I disagree. We force economics on no one. There are very few people out there that understand basic level economics.
how many do you mean by "few" ?
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what do you mean by "basic"?
lazs
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Basic Microeconomics (supply and demand), and Basic Macroeconomics (Taxes, GDP, spending...).
There are too few people who ever will take a basic economics class. You can tell by people freaking out when someone in government does something from the basic economic playbook.
I can't really guess well, because I'm not too sure. But from my experiences, roughly 1 in 20 have taken a basic economics class. Or at least from all the people I've met, 1 in 20 understand a basic economics class.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Basic Microeconomics (supply and demand), and Basic Macroeconomics (Taxes, GDP, spending...).
There are too few people who ever will take a basic economics class. You can tell by people freaking out when someone in government does something from the basic economic playbook.
I can't really guess well, because I'm not too sure. But from my experiences, roughly 1 in 20 have taken a basic economics class. Or at least from all the people I've met, 1 in 20 understand a basic economics class.
That is compulsory here. Micro and macro economics are taken by all in High School? They dont go as deep into it as in university ofcurse but you cant skip it.
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I never learned anything about economics until I got into college---wasn't touched on in either Virginia or FLA schools (in the '70's)
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The two examples given in the text are French and German. Both economies are struggling and neither are a good example. France and Germany are not Europe. As it relates to both countries it is true though.
It's no accident that the most economical successful countries right now have adopted American style economics. Not least my own country. Ireland was recently listed as the second richest in the world after Japan. That is wealth per head. Yes little old Ireland is richer than the USA. :confused:
Japan
Ireland
UK
USA
Italy
Then France and Germany.
The downside is that Ireland, the USA and Italy also have disproportionate levels of poverty compared to other developed countries. Even though jobs are easy to get and we've had over a quarter or a million immigrants in a few years most of whom seem to have two jobs. Strange!
France and Germany needs to get it's act together. The new EU countries like Poland, Czech republic and Hungary have no such qualms about doing business. They will soon leave them behind.
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Per capita
1 Luxembourg $ 55,100
2 Norway $ 37,800
3 United States $ 37,800
4 San Marino $ 34,600
5 Switzerland $ 32,700
6 Denmark $ 31,100
7 Iceland $ 30,900
8 Austria $ 30,000
9 Canada $ 29,800
10 Ireland $ 29,600
most expencive to live in
1 Japan
2 South Korea
3 Russia
4 Taiwan
5 Norway
6 Hong Kong
7 Switzerland
8 Denmark
9 Argentina
10 China
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woops.. the above lists are abit dated
new list
linky (http://www.countryreports.org/datatables/countryReportsChart.aspx?val0=69900&val1=55600&val2=50200&val3=43400&val4=42300&t0=Bermuda&t1=Luxembourg&t2=Equatorial%20Guinea&t3=United%20Arab%20Emirates&t4=Norway&title=Richest%C2%A0Countries&title2=(Gross%C2%A0Domestic%C2%A0Product%C2%A0Per%C2%A0Capita%C2%A0in%C2%A0US%C2%A0Dollars))
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In the States we don't take any kind of economics course until the junior or senior year of High School, and even then it is usually only one semester taught by a teacher who doesn't know squat about it. So don't give me that indoctrination crap... if anything public education would lean toward teaching the evils of capitalism than the good from it.
LOL Boroda, that gave me a laugh.
:lol
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Originally posted by bj229r
I never learned anything about economics until I got into college---wasn't touched on in either Virginia or FLA schools (in the '70's)
Ditto here. I took micro and macro my freshman year.
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I didn't see economics until college. Same for statistics. The statistics class really was an eye opener, that's why I am so disgusted with polls and the disproportunate amount of press they get with no info about how the poll was conducted. You can prove anything you want with a carefully contructed and conducted poll.
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In Florida (at least in Hillsboro county), Economics & Government are a 9th grade (jr. high in FL) class.
In Texas, they're taught in 12th grade (highschool Sr.).
That's how it's been since the 90s, and I don't think it has changed.
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You link doesn't work Nilsen. In any case you're just peeved because no one mentioned Norway.:p But in fact you don't figure in those statistics because it measures how much money people have as opposed to how much they earn. In other words how many millionaires there are. In that Ireland is second to Japan. Norway wouldn't figure there as of course it being a socialist paradise nobody is allowed to be too rich by hitting them high taxes.
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cpxxx, do those figures factor in the EU contributions to Ireland?
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We were taught about GDP, per capita income, etc in World Geography my freshman year in high school. You may have been taught it, it's whether you retain it (i doubt 90% of the class remembers it, surprise surprise).
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By GDP nirvana, I mean the controls of it, what it actually means and how doing anything in an economy will affect it.
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Oh alright, I think my high school has an economics class, maybe i'll take it. As surprising as it may seem i enjoy it. You could give me some pointers if you'd like.
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Caffeine, lots and lots of caffeine. Wild Cherry Pepsi is the only reason why I survived it.
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Originally posted by cpxxx
You link doesn't work Nilsen. In any case you're just peeved because no one mentioned Norway.:p But in fact you don't figure in those statistics because it measures how much money people have as opposed to how much they earn. In other words how many millionaires there are. In that Ireland is second to Japan. Norway wouldn't figure there as of course it being a socialist paradise nobody is allowed to be too rich by hitting them high taxes.
LOL.. Plenty of rich peeps here cpx.
millionares you say? heck, even i am one but i would not say im rich.
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You're a capitalist opressor of the people Nilsen.
The only thing you can do to get of of this status as an utter creep is to donate half of your wealth to someone needy. Like me.
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my favorite campaign is going on at taco bell as we speak.
if you win you get ONE MILLION PESOS and you get to be EL PRESIDENTE of taco bell.
man, if i win i am going to ****ecan that little chihuahua and replace him with a lime green chupacabra with a pair of pearl handled pistolas.
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Originally posted by StSanta
You're a capitalist opressor of the people Nilsen.
The only thing you can do to get of of this status as an utter creep is to donate half of your wealth to someone needy. Like me.
I know.. but i dont have any guns to defend my property with so im prolly doomed ;)
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Originally posted by Trikky
cpxxx, do those figures factor in the EU contributions to Ireland?
Yes Ireland's economic development entirely due to British contributions to the EU and immediately forwarded direct to our bank accounts. Yahoo! we're living it up on British money. Thank you British taxpayers! :rolleyes: Thank you Tony Blair and her gracious majesty the Queen.
You Brits always bring that one up:( I've heard it so often. Somehow you can't believe 'tick Oirish' are capable of working hard and being successful without the help of our former colonial masters. I'm tempted to be downright rude But all I will say is that EU money has helped with infrastructure projects like roads etc. That is the point of EU money. But if it was all about EU money, how come the likes of Portugal, Spain or Greece aren't up there in the rich stakes?
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As the debate rages about economic reform in countries such as France and Germany and the fear that "Anglo-Saxon" market changes would replace the European social model of State guarantees and protections, Ireland is in the currrently fortunate position of having the best of both worlds.
Ireland has massively benefited from inward US investment, by providing a low tax, business friendly non-unionised environment for primarily American firms. At the same time Dutch and German taxpayers are funding our farmers who are effectively depending on public welfare for two-thirds of their income.
So while the Tánaiste (Deputy Prime Minister) Mary Harney can brag that Ireland is closer to Boston than Berlin, we have been lucky so far that the taxpayers in Berlin haven't reacted to our continued cash benefits from the EU treasure trove.
From here http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_10002079.shtml
My original question was genuine - I was too lazy to look up the figures and try and work it out myself, so next time you imply I'm a racist imperialist just because I'm English, please bear that in mind.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
I know.. but i dont have any guns to defend my property with so im prolly doomed ;)
Given your history with care and feeding of boats, that's probably a very good thing.
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Ireland has massively benefited from inward US investment, by providing a low tax, business friendly non-unionised environment for primarily American firms. At the same time Dutch and German taxpayers are funding our farmers who are effectively depending on public welfare for two-thirds of their income.
That's the crucial paragraph there. It partly explains the economic growth and where a lot of the funding goes to: Farmers. Farmers are heavily subsided all over Europe including Britain.
The reason for my tetchiness is that your comment/question is all too typical, patronising, insulting and it does imply that Britain is in part responsible for Ireland's current growth. I had it said to my face more than once even from English friends and it's often meant as a subtle put down. It's infuriating.
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Originally posted by Maverick
I didn't see economics until college. Same for statistics. The statistics class really was an eye opener, that's why I am so disgusted with polls and the disproportunate amount of press they get with no info about how the poll was conducted. You can prove anything you want with a carefully contructed and conducted poll.
same here... but I never took an economics class in college because I didn't stay long enough.
I think I learned the term GDP in HS just because it was a number you could show about a country. other than that, all I have learned has been thought personal research, and leisure reading.
I do know for sure my HS did not offer econimics at all, we did learn how to write a check in english class once sophmore year.
15 years now and they still do not teach it either.