Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: WhiteHawk on August 11, 2006, 06:35:32 PM
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Worst president ever?
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I really don't understand what has you libs foaming at the mouth. He's
on his second term.
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Originally posted by WhiteHawk
Worst president ever?
No. Clinton's foreign policy was far worse, and the only thing good about his domestic policy is he rode the upswing Reagan created and didn't hold enough sway over Congress or the public to screw it up beyond repair. We can look at Carter, but then, most would rather not. He's almost as bad as a former President, but he doesn't have the where with all to do too much damage. But then, he lacks the decency of most of the rest of the former Presidents, who were good enough to keep their mouth shut after they left office. Shall we continue on back to Nixon, or better yet Johnson? Not tonight, I've got better things to do.
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FDR has my vote.
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bush is not running for election in nov.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
FDR has my vote.
?
Wow.
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Harding, no contest.
Bush 2 tried to match him though.
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Originally posted by Stang
?
Wow.
Like this will be any surprise to you that I'll say it.
FDR was the biggest socialist ever elected (that I know of).
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
No. Clinton's foreign policy was far worse
:rofl
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Originally posted by WhiteHawk
Worst president ever?
Dunno, Carter managed to hit 28%
and Nixon 25% for their lows
and I seem to remember Truman managed to hit a pretty dismal rating also
Why is this silliness even a thread?
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Why is this silliness even a thread?
this IS hte oclub
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Long after bush is out of office, we will still be at threat from terrorism. That I know. Did his eight years make a difference in making terrorism a lesser threat. Not in my opionion. If anything it made it worse and has tied American military assets in more places around the world. Has it lessoned tensions with countries around the world? No, its hightened concerns and lessoned relationships with allies we've had for forty or more years. Are we safe from terrorism, course not. If anything we're more in danger now than we ever have been. And at the cost of our personal freedoms an lives. Many additional Americans have died because of poor planning and near sighted political agendas. Lets face it, theres an idiot in office.
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7- Members should remember this board is aimed at a general audience. Posting pornographic or generally offensive text, images, links, etc. will not be tolerated. This includes attempts to bypass the profanity filter.
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Originally posted by MrCoffee
Long after bush is out of office, we will still be at threat from terrorism. That I know. Did his eight years make a difference in making terrorism a lesser threat. Not in my opionion. If anything it made it worse and has tied American military assets in more places around the world. Has it lessoned tensions with countries around the world? No, its hightened concerns and lessoned relationships with allies we've had for forty or more years. Are we safe from terrorism, course not. If anything we're more in danger now than we ever have been. And at the cost of our personal freedoms an lives. Many additional Americans have died because of poor planning and near sighted political agendas. Lets face it, theres an idiot in office.
Hell Yes.
No president in the history of the United States has EVER cost you more personal freedom than GW Bush. It will take decades to undo what this man has done.
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7- Members should remember this board is aimed at a general audience. Posting pornographic or generally offensive text, images, links, etc. will not be tolerated. This includes attempts to bypass the profanity filter.
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Originally posted by ujustdied
if you were the president and some 1 killed 3,000 men and wemon kids and all WTF would u have done. hell id would have done the samething. go over there and get thoughs ppl in line.
I hope you are refering to Afghanistan where Al Queda set up shop. We had every right to kick butt there. We did a pretty good job until we diluted ourselves.
I hope you are NOT refering to Iraq where 2000+ MORE Americans have died
to prevent civil war,
I mean fight an insurgency,
I mean make a democracy,
I mean get WMDs,
I mean capture Saddam.
And don't call this liberal propoganda. I'm from a military family and hate to see poor planning and over-confidence by politicians get servicemen killed. Glad my brother isn't there now and I feel for the families of servicemen who are.
The sad thing is: Pulling out from Iraq now would create another vacuum like Afghanistan in the 90's. Al Queda (doubt it b/c they are Sunni) or other groups (more likely Shi'a) will set up shop there and plan attacks on the West and Israel perhaps with aide from Iran.
So, while I did not like the invasion of Iraq, I realize we have to stay now for freakin forever until they decide to give up violence. Any bets on how many more Americans will die there? Mr. Bush
(http://www.wisopinion.com/blogs/uploaded_images/mission-accomplished-780214.jpg)
Edit: LOL the filter took out my spelling of S-h-i-i-t-e muslims (now using Shi'a) and gave me *****e. It's perhaps an appropriate description of some of their more fanatical members. :D
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Him or Johnson.
In our life times anyway.
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I give bush a passing grade. Maybe even a C+, although I freely admit my disappointment in his prevalent medeocrity.
The war being fought in Iraq right now is the most important war since the defeat of the axis powers in WW2. I dont expect it to succeed.....too many people will prefer the short term gain of withdrawing prematurely over the long term sacrifice of succeeding.
I dont care really, whatever happens will happen. I just hope I get a chance to pop off a few rounds before Im finished.
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Originally posted by Pongo
Him or Johnson.
In our life times anyway.
Johnson had a higher body count by an order of magnitude.
But Dubya is the worst since him.
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I believe that we could have handled this whole thing much differently. Does anyone remember the massive support practically the ENTIRE WORLD gave us after 9/11?
Squandered. Completely squandered.
And for what, really? To go into Iraq.
Ok, I GET that we are fighting terrorists in a sandbox in Iraq instead of in our own backyard, and that IS GOOD.
BUT, we COULD have been fighting these terrorists in a sandbox in Syria, or Iran, AND probably been able to convince at least a good portion of the world that it was justified. At the very least, we'd have a much stronger case then we ever did with Iraq.
Now, this is just my opinion, and I don't have any proof, but given that so many of the reasons we gave the UN for wanting to go into Iraq in the first place have completely fallen apart, or been shown to be outright wrong or even, worst case, imagination, I get the feeling that GWB was planning on finding a reason to invade Iraq long before 9/11 ever happened.
That's just how I read him. I could be wrong, but if I'm right, yeah, I'd say he's one of our worst presidents ever.
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some people think bush was the mastermind behind the 9/11 attacks.
I suppose it is possible :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Yeager
some people think bush was the mastermind behind the 9/11 attacks.
I suppose it is possible :rolleyes:
I wouldn't say that.
I might say 9/11 was the equivalent of Animal House's "Thank you, God" scene for him, though.
(a lil sarcasim here, don't get carried away with me, fellas :cool: )
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Ya, when the chick in the playboy outfit flies thru the window onto the kid's bed... saw thast seen this afternoon. lol
Ramming speed!
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Dunno, Carter managed to hit 28%
and Nixon 25% for their lows
and I seem to remember Truman managed to hit a pretty dismal rating also
Why is this silliness even a thread?
Why would you read and reply to it if it is so silly? You do that alot, ive noticed. Best to just let the silly threads alone and participate in the ones you can understand. So, anyway, Bush is ONE of the worst presidents ever?
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Originally posted by Pongo
Him or Johnson.
In our life times anyway.
oh hush
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I have never approved of him.. he is far to socialist liberal for me...
But I worked hard to get him elected. there was no alternative.
At this point in time.. there is no other alternative either.
Bush did exactly what I thought he would do... He grew government some... less than kerrie woulda but he did grow it.
He also put in TWO supreme court judges that believe in the constitution... That was my main reason for wanting him in and he did not dissapoint
He has intalled a crapload of good federal judges... again.. think of the alternative.
Gun ban laws have gone away... the gun ban crowd has introduced about a tenth of what they would have if.... again... imagine the alternative.
He passed the protection of commerce act for firearms dealers.. he may have saved the industry.
He appointed John bolton to the un.
His approval rating with me was allways 33% but kerries was 0% with me.
The war? So long as we need oil we will be involved in wars and have well funded terrorists in every muslim middle east country coming after us... There is no good or bad muslim oil producing country to be at war with... iraq is as good as any and better than most.
They invaded their neigbors.. they were trying to control more oil... we allied with the invaded and the rest is history.
So funked... what is your alternative? You realize that the things I have mentioned are far more important than the man himself tho right? Who would you have voted for in the last election knowing what you know now?
I am saying that I never liked Bush and that he is doing exactly what I expected of him. The alternatives were too horrible to contemplate tho.
lazs
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Carter was worse. Kerry would have been even worse than him. Erm... change that to "elected" because Ford was probably worse than all of them, but he didn't really have to do much.
Other than that... yep.. he was the worse since I've been following politics. It almost makes you wonder why the dems lost to him.
Other than that... I pretty much agree with everything lazs said above.
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Originally posted by WhiteHawk
Why would you read and reply to it if it is so silly? You do that alot, ive noticed. Best to just let the silly threads alone and participate in the ones you can understand. So, anyway, Bush is ONE of the worst presidents ever?
Touch'e
but define "alot" and prove I do it "alot" please
since you noticed it. It shouldnt be hard.
Maybe I do. maybe I dont. I havent really looked.
So please, enlighten me.
If your right. I'll admit it
But actually I dont participate in alot of threads I find silly.
If I did, you would see my posts in alot more threads
In this case I was correcting the thread for accuracy.
33% isnt the worst.
One of the worst ever? Dunno. Ask me 20-30 years from now
back then Nixon was considered terrible after Watergate.
Now many "experts" say he was pretty good. Same thing with Truman.
the only one who hasnt really changed is Carter. It was viewed as a failed presidency then and it still is.
As for Bush. I am afraid we wont know for sure for quite some time. Well after he is out of office.
Who knows he may very well be the worst. Or he could in hindsight be viewed as one of the better ones.
Polls like this tend to be directly related to peoples wallets. As long as there isnt anything drastically effecting their wallets. Whoever is president can get away with just about anything. But the minute something hits em in the wallet such as the price of gas. The presidents approval rating drops.
If we were in the runaway economy of the 90s. I highly doubt Bush's ratings would dip so low reguardless of what he did
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4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
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Since when are the best actions/ideas the most popular? Since never. This thread seems to be about a statistic, which brings to mind the ubiquitous bell curve. If you are in the majority, like minded with the many, in agreement with the masses, then you are average, mediocre, far from the best.
Nothing wrong with being average, most people are. Funny thing is about 95% of people think they are above average. Intelligence is marked by having some grasp on what it is one doesn’t know. The idiot knows it all.
As I read the opinions expressed here, I am struck by the confidence and absolute certainty with which they are delivered. I can’t decide if you guys are blessed with extraordinary cognitive abilities, privy to the most secret of information, able to spend countless hours deciphering the vast complexity of geopolitics, or just a bunch of goofballs…But I stray from the subject at hand.
Worst president ever? Time will tell, distance will illuminate, history will judge.
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(http://muyan.hp.infoseek.co.jp/cinema/muyan/h.htm1.jpg)
"He's a Cluster****!"
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4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
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Couple of points uneed to get straight, ujust...
1.Saddam did not attack the WTC.
2.Carter didn't sell the Panama Canal to China.
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Originally posted by rpm
Couple of points uneed to get straight, ujust...
1.Saddam did not attack the WTC.
2.Carter didn't sell the Panama Canal to China.
Saddam did attempt to assasinate a US president however and Carter did give back the Panama Canal about 20 years early.
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James Buchanan must be considered the worst US President thus far, as the country fell apart around him.
Of the 20th century, I consider Calvin Coolidge the worst, as the economic policy of his time directly caused the Great Depression (although Hoover gets the blame).
Of recent times, Reagan was the worst in my opinion. Truth is, we haven't had better than a mediocre president for a very long time--at least since Truman.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by J_A_B
Of recent times, Reagan was the worst in my opinion. Truth is, we haven't had better than a mediocre president for a very long time--at least since Truman.
J_A_B
You have just shot any semblance of credibility you had hoped to have in the foot.
No one will ever take you seriously ever again.
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Multitudes of people love Reagan because he put on a happy face and acted all confident and stuff. I see beyond the smiling face. Charisma alone doesn't make a good leader, although it does often make for good polls.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by KONG1
As I read the opinions expressed here, I am struck by the confidence and absolute certainty with which they are delivered. I can’t decide if you guys are blessed with extraordinary cognitive abilities, privy to the most secret of information, able to spend countless hours deciphering the vast complexity of geopolitics, or just a bunch of goofballs…
Worst president ever? Time will tell, distance will illuminate, history will judge.
I suspect that as citizens of a democracy, we are just scrutinizing the performance of our elected leader. We could just not care for most of 4 years, then show up in November (all 30% of us, or however many voted in 2004) and just punch one of those buttons w/o really caring who did what or what they say they will do.
And I am a goofball :D
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Originally posted by ujustdied
i know but u dont understatnd kurt they hijacked our planes flew into the world trade centers. can u not get that right. lmao i mean come on dude. we half to fight for what is right. we cant just lets the stupid iraqies and w/e to come and be able to freaking bomb what ever they want. we have to take action. we have to go over there and show thoughs ppl what is right.
Iraq? 9/11?
Oh boy... we need some help here.
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ok w/e there both in the same place. i just cant bealive you guys arnt happy that we acually cought saddam i mean wtf. the iraqies are prazing us for this.
ohh and JAB wtf reagon was the best president of all time. he made the germens take down the berlin wall without even having to pick up a gun i mean that right there is awsome.
i swear i really think people want this country to suffer. god i mean me we capture saddam make the middle east a better place they are voting for goverment there and u ppl think its some kind of sin that they have a right for once. personally im gald bush took us over there. they are starting to have rights and we are helping them become a better country. if ***** kerry gets in there. he will make america look like cowards. but heeh im sure thats what the democrats are planning, they want this country to be communist. they want to ruin the USA i can tell just by listining to them.
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Originally posted by ujustdied
ok w/e there both in the same place. i just cant bealive you guys arnt happy that we acually cought saddam i mean wtf. the iraqies are prazing us for this.
ohh and JAB wtf reagon was the best president of all time. he made the germens take down the berlin wall without even having to pick up a gun i mean that right there is awsome.
i swear i really think people want this country to suffer. god i mean me we capture saddam make the middle east a better place they are voting for goverment there and u ppl think its some kind of sin that they have a right for once. personally im gald bush took us over there. they are starting to have rights and we are helping them become a better country. if ***** kerry gets in there. he will make america look like cowards. but heeh im sure thats what the democrats are planning, they want this country to be communist. they want to ruin the USA i can tell just by listining to them.
You sir, are a goldmine.:rofl
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Originally posted by ujustdied
ok w/e there both in the same place.
One day we will find the WMD in Iraq that brought down the WTC. Shortly thereafter Osama bin Hussein will be removed from power in Iran thus preventing Lebanon from continuing it's uranium enrichment program.
Pardon me if I'm confused...it's all the same place. :)
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
You could even argue that Lincoln did more to curtail personal freedom then any other president.
Yeah, I suppose you could, if you were, oh, I dunno, a white supremacist :D
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Multitudes of people love Reagan because he put on a happy face and acted all confident and stuff. I see beyond the smiling face. Charisma alone doesn't make a good leader, although it does often make for good polls.
I was taking a drink of iced tea.... now I have to clean my monitor.
Reagan? Care to enlighten all of us on why you choose him as the worse?
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Originally posted by Vudak
Yeah, I suppose you could, if you were, oh, I dunno, a white supremacist :D
You've tried to make a funny, but it came out just plain stupid.
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Catfish,
If you're so happy we're over there you can sign up for the service in what? 5 years when you turn 18, and then you can spread your intelligence of the whole situation to them.
Seriously though man, this forum isn't about grammar and proper spelling but wow, reading your posts is like reading something my cousin in 3rd grade writes. Add to the fact that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but yours must be heavily influenced by outside sources. I'm convinced you were brainwashed by aliens. Conservative, Republican, Bush supprting aliens.
I'd however say that Truman's job in Viet Nam was worse, even as people relate the middle east to Viet Nam. It's good presidents have people like McNamara to share some of the blame. Maybe we can play Rumsfeld and Condoleeza Rice for "mission accomplishments" in the middle east. Who knows?
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Originally posted by mietla
You've tried to make a funny, but it came out just plain stupid.
I don't know, when you claim that Lincoln restricted personal *freedom*s worse then anyone else, it tends to raise my eyebrows
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Because freeing people from oppressive slavery is retarding their personal freedoms to a point at which you want to cry?
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Originally posted by nirvana
Because freeing people from oppressive slavery is retarding their personal freedoms to a point at which you want to cry?
Who are you talking to here?
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"Reagan? Care to enlighten all of us on why you choose him as the worse?"
I didn't.
I consider him the worst of recent times (meaning the last 25 years or so). My dislike of Reagan is based on his domestic policy and especially his economic policy. There have been quite a few presidents who were worse than Reagan, just not as recently.
As I said above, I feel the worst ever is Buchanan.
All of our recent presidents have been pretty poor. I consider Reagan the worst of the recent bunch--but only barely so. We're caught in another period of extremely weak/poor presidents, much like the early/mid 1800's. A couple centuries from now, names like Clinton or Bush won't have any more signifigance than names like Tyler or Fillmore have today.
The best president we've ever had is Washington.
J_A_B
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"I'd however say that Truman's job in Viet Nam was worse, even as people relate the middle east to Viet Nam. It's good presidents have people like McNamara to share some of the blame."
Truman's job in Viet Nam? I believe you're thinking of Lyndon Johnson, not Truman. When Truman was president, McNamara was still working for the Ford Motor Company.
J_A_B
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Sorry about that, typo, meant Johnson. Damn i might be turning into Catfish...
It was a sarcastic comment about Lincoln taking away rights.
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Originally posted by J_A_B
As I said above, I feel the worst ever is Buchanan.
I wonder if even Lincoln could have stopped the South from leaving the Union.
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Originally posted by J_A_B
As I said above, I feel the worst ever is Buchanan.
Holy ****.
:huh
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Gentlemen, I'm a little dissapointed that you guys are lacking in the history department.
While Lincoln was freeing the slaves, he committed the biggest personal rights violation out of all the presidents.
He suspended Habeus Corpus. That means that you no longer have a right to a speedy trial, nor do you have to be charged with anything to be held.
What Bush is doing to the islamofascists isn't nearly as bad. Bush is charging them with crimes, but also milking for information and taking his sweet time to push the charges through.
Lincoln would gather US citizens (on both sides) and hold them with no intention of ever charging them, just because he felt like it.
Oh, and FDR gathered up Americans of Japanese descent and did the same thing.
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lol Sandy
:lol
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I'd ask how Reagan was worse than Carter, but probably a waste of time:O
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Oh, and FDR gathered up Americans of Japanese descent and did the same thing.
also many Germans and Italians.
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That one, I did not know.
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Originally posted by bj229r
I'd ask how Reagan was worse than Carter, but probably a waste of time:O
Maybe it's the negotiating with terrorists thing. You know, arms for hostages. Carter stood his ground on that one for 444 days.
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Yep, the nation's economy really did suffer under Reagan didn't it.
(http://www.house.gov/jec/middle/crunch3/fig-2a.gif)
(http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-261/rrfig01.gif)
(http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-261/rrfig02.gif)
(http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-261/rrfig03.gif)
(http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-261/rrfig11.gif)
(http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-261/rrfig13.gif)
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Wow, from the looks of those spiffy charts, Bush senior was the worst of all time. Guess the apple does'nt fall far from the tree after all.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Gentlemen, I'm a little dissapointed that you guys are lacking in the history department.
While Lincoln was freeing the slaves, he committed the biggest personal rights violation out of all the presidents.
He suspended Habeus Corpus. That means that you no longer have a right to a speedy trial, nor do you have to be charged with anything to be held.
What Bush is doing to the islamofascists isn't nearly as bad. Bush is charging them with crimes, but also milking for information and taking his sweet time to push the charges through.
Lincoln would gather US citizens (on both sides) and hold them with no intention of ever charging them, just because he felt like it.
Oh, and FDR gathered up Americans of Japanese descent and did the same thing.
He suspended Habeus Corpus, he did not erradicate it. Given that that war was actually being fought full-scale on our soil, I'd argue it was justified.
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Hey rpm...tell me if I'm wrong, but didn't Carter and his people claim credit for negotiating the release of the Iranian embassy hostages on the day that Reagan was inauguraged?
I also seem to remember that there was a television movie made about Carter's administration negotiating their release. How could they do that if they weren't "negotiating" with the terrorists?
As far as the charts go, one could interpret them to read that the downturn in the economy that began in the early 90s didn't begin to return to Reagan era levels until 1994, when the Republicans took control of both houses of Congress.
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Shukins, don't get me wrong. I'm not praising Carter, just trying to answer the earlier question.
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Originally posted by Shuckins
Hey rpm...tell me if I'm wrong, but didn't Carter and his people claim credit for negotiating the release of the Iranian embassy hostages on the day that Reagan was inauguraged?
I also seem to remember that there was a television movie made about Carter's administration negotiating their release. How could they do that if they weren't "negotiating" with the terrorists?
You may want to ask Nash about that. He seems to have some inside information about that deal. But he'll tell you it was Bush 41, not Carter.
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Maybe it's the negotiating with terrorists thing. You know, arms for hostages. Carter stood his ground on that one for 444 days.
I wonder of the author of this really believes it. *snicker*
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The deal for releasing the hostages was settled during the Carter administration. The Iranians waited until after the inauguration as a last tweaking of President Carter's nose. It would not have mattered if Mickey Mouse was being sworn in that day.
To Carter's credit, the hostages were released. The entire situation would have been just as difficult for any president.
I was never a supporter of Carter and his domestic policies in particular, but his determination to get the hostages released unharmed was a success that he deserves paise for.
No president or person in history has been successful or right in everything they did or tried to do.
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I had family in the USAF during the Carter years and the general feeling at the time was that deep cuts to the military budget and general inpet oversight of the military by the Carter administration had a direct role in the failure at Desert One. To his credit, Carter took full responsibility for that failure and the loss of eight brave servicemen. Had the mission gone forward and progressed to the actual rescue stage who knows what would have happened. Maybe Carter just lucked out of a really bad initial decision to attempt the rescue in the first place. Hundreds if not thousands of Iranians and many, if not all the hostages could have died along with a large number of US forces. Yeah....Carter lucked out, the eight brave servicemen who perished at Desert One did not. Their sacrifice is well remembered by me.
Carter was and is a fine person and humanitarian, but as a President he was an abject failure in every respect.
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Originally posted by WhiteHawk
Worst president ever?
No, No, No! He's the best evar!!
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lol Shuckins, you fail to point to charts of the national debt during Reagan. You give me a blank check and I can put up charts like that too. I also didn't like having my SS payment quadrupled, then told we didn't need SS. If we didn't need it, why did you quadruple my payment??? Oh, that's right , he took the money and used it to fill in holes in his budget, then said he didn't raise taxes! But I wouldn't call Reagan the worst, he lifted the country up when we really needed it. Aside from his economic policy, I really liked him.
But Bush, I mean, wow, how does he do it? He spends like no liberal dem ever dreamed of, they must be so jealous! You can debate the war all you want, but how can you defend his spending? There are too many lobbyists who have too much influence with too many ties to corporations, who want too much federal money thrown their way(corporate welfare).
Worst ever? I haven't been alive for all of them so I can't say.
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consider him the worst of recent times (meaning the last 25 years or so). My dislike of Reagan is based on his domestic policy and especially his economic policy. There have been quite a few presidents who were worse than Reagan, just not as recently.
OK I just wanted to be clear on your thoughts. I now know not to lend ant consideration or credence to anything you say, at least on this subject. You're absolutely ignorant re this topic/Reagan.
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I based my decision to leave a very promising Air Force career which had been a lifelong ambition up to that point and try to get an airline job when no airlines were hiring (early 1980's) on the expectation that Carter would win a second term.
Being in the military under Carter was so bad I could not stand it any longer.
I certainly miscalled that election! It all turned out OK though. I was one of a lucky few that got on with a major in 1980. Still, I wonder how things would have turned out in the AF sometimes.