Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Jebus on August 12, 2006, 11:28:29 AM
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So I am working at the fire house today we were watching some google movies when we spoted this one.
Now being firefighter 9-11 of course gets our intrest.
It is kinda long (1hr 20min) but it is a little eye opening.
Love to hear what you guys think about it.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5946593973848835726
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As with most conspiracy theories... you just need to ask yourself a few simple questions:
1) What kind of planning would be necessary to pull it off?
2) How many people would have to be involved?
3) How do you keep that many people silent?
If that doesn't do it for you. listen to the "eye witness" accounts. Even the accounts he mentioned varried greatly. He just gave the ones that fit his impression. From it being a cruise missile to an aircraft that "looked to be a cargo plane with a blue dot painted on it's nose, like no airliner I've seen".
From Condoleezza Rice calling someone in SF and warning them not to fly the next day (none of the planes came out of SF) to insinuating that they used non-comercial planes all together, to well... the whole damn thing was contradictory.
At some point it will become painfully obvious that the government cannot protect you from much of anything, despite what they (and most everyone) claims.
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:rofl
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It's all in the presentation. I could put something together that would insinuate that kittens were the cause of WW2. That doesn't mean it's true.
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Conspiracy theories are like crack for the ignorant.
J_A_B
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LOL they would have us believe that an administration this incompetent could pull something like that off? Let alone not let the secret out? There haven't been any leaks in this administration, have there?
:noid :noid
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If you are interested, watch the Google videos "Screw Loose Change" pt 1, 2, and 3 for a segment-by-segment rebuttal of the Loose Change video based on the LC video. Makes Loose Change look a lot less compelling.
smoke-eaters. I was one for eight years.
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Did any of you catch the 9/11 Conspiracy Symposium on C-SPAN a couple weeks back? HOLY****!! THEM PEOPLE ARE EFFIN OUT THERE!!!!!! WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY OUT THERE!!!!!
:noid
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I watched the whole video and it was quite interesting, the most well made conspiracy video to date. It had many valid points and things that I did not know from before or which I didn't remember.
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I had a look at the main points and once again wondered at the stupity of people who believe in conspiracy theories like this.
First off the Pentagon attack. This has been done to death. There was a plane, it hit the Pentagon. Anyone who doesn't believe me. Do a google for Pentagon images. There are plenty of aircraft parts in various pictures available. When an aircraft hits hard there isn't much left. Aircraft are not ships. They are lightly built and quite fragile.
Secondly the WTC, secondary explosions? Why? When you just flew two jetliners into the towers. Their main platform is that firemen heard 'explosions' inside the buildings as they were collapsing. I could be wrong but I imagine a collapsing building might make a lot of sounds like explosions. In any case there are several intelligent suggestions as to why they fell from professional architects and engineers unconnected with the CIA or Mossad. Again google is your friend.
Need I go on...............
Finally flight 93. It landed at Cleveland apparently. Of course it did.:noid Again the lack of wreckage fuels this nonsense. When a plane hits the grounds at 580 mph vertically down. It goes a long way down and not much is left of it or the passengers.
Another conspiracy theory says it was shot down.
The video is BS from start to finish.
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And let us not forget, tha awesome evidence against BIn Laden and the hijackers. Let us salute the anonomous american hero who sifted through the red hot, choking cauldron just hours after the attacks, on a hunch, to pull out the only whole piece to survive the wreckage without damage, a passport. Not just any passport, but one of the hijackers passports. Without this piece of evidence, there would be no way to identify the 19 hijackers just 48 hours after the attacks. The taliban would still be in power to wreak its havoc on the innocent women of Afghanistan, and deny US oil companies rights to pipe all that caspian sea oil through its country onto the world market. Saddam would still be in power defying the world community and thwarting Democracy in the middle east, and keeping all that oil off the world market. Heres to you, anonomous american hero. One hunch, one dangerous search, one peice of plastic. A trillion dollar find :aok
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er I believe they'd figured it out without a passport
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There's an entire blog devoted to debunking this movie. http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/
I tried to sit and watch it but it was just too far out there for me.
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What about the 9 suicide hijackers being still alive? Doesn't make sense to me.. if someone pilots a 757 into a building he most certainly can't be watching it happening from the other side of the world from a TV :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Fishu
I watched the whole video and it was quite interesting, the most well made conspiracy video to date. It had many valid points and things that I did not know from before or which I didn't remember.
(http://www.strangezoo.com/images/content/10893.jpg)
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Do I believe this movie ...no, but it is fun to see what some wacky people can think of.:rolleyes:
I just wanted to hear what you warm hearted americans think about the movie, and wanted to see how many people believe it.
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Originally posted by WhiteHawk
And let us not forget, tha awesome evidence against BIn Laden and the hijackers. Let us salute the anonomous american hero who sifted through the red hot, choking cauldron just hours after the attacks, on a hunch, to pull out the only whole piece to survive the wreckage without damage, a passport. Not just any passport, but one of the hijackers passports. Without this piece of evidence, there would be no way to identify the 19 hijackers just 48 hours after the attacks. The taliban would still be in power to wreak its havoc on the innocent women of Afghanistan, and deny US oil companies rights to pipe all that caspian sea oil through its country onto the world market. Saddam would still be in power defying the world community and thwarting Democracy in the middle east, and keeping all that oil off the world market. Heres to you, anonomous american hero. One hunch, one dangerous search, one peice of plastic. A trillion dollar find :aok
While that would be a remarkable discovery.....check this one out.
While stationed in Alaska working on F-15's we sent 6 of our birds to Korea for a huge exercise (Team Spirit I think it was called). The wing commander went on this deployment.
The wing commander and his flight lead were returing to base, flying 200 ft off the South China sea at over 500 knots. At some point the flight lead looks back and the wing commander is NO WHERE to be seen.
That aircraft was never found, nor was any wreckage ever found. However, they did find the wing commanders military ID card floating on the ocean. What are the odds of that happening?
Strange things do happen sometimes, doesnt mean there is a conspiracy.
*edit* For those who have never seen one, a US military ID card is about the same size as your drivers licsence.
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P_L_E_A_S_E_
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Hold on here...
Near the first part of the film, when the narrator speaks about aircraft crash tests by NASA, he states that the aircraft flew a total of 16 hours 22 minutes with 10 takeoffs, 69 approaches and 13 landings.
Excellent math. I've seen flight logs where the pilot has more takeoffs than landings but never one with more landings than takeoffs.
:aok
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:lol
This thread continues to amuse me. Carry on.
:aok
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Originally posted by Jebus
I just wanted to hear what you warm hearted americans think about the movie, and wanted to see how many people believe it.
What an odd thing for someone from chicago to say.
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"Loose Change" is what happens when no one believes your moon landing conspiracy theories.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Hold on here...
Near the first part of the film, when the narrator speaks about aircraft crash tests by NASA, he states that the aircraft flew a total of 16 hours 22 minutes with 10 takeoffs, 69 approaches and 13 landings.
Excellent math. I've seen flight logs where the pilot has more takeoffs than landings but never one with more landings than takeoffs.
:aok
LMAO!
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Conspiracy theories require no thought to start, and no IQ to beleive. Consequently, they abound in the modern world.
All the 9-11 theories I have seen on TV, or the paper, or the radio, or the internet have been beyond laughable. Its almost as f*** up as watching people tear through the woods with a camera looking for evidence of Bigfoot, but at least thats humorous.
...oh yes, and the moon landing folks, they get off thinking they are smarter than everybody else (thats the appeal), and are also a bunch of losers. Every time I see one interviwed its some wild eyed nut living in a trailer park.
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Originally posted by Elfie
While that would be a remarkable discovery.....check this one out.
While stationed in Alaska working on F-15's we sent 6 of our birds to Korea for a huge exercise (Team Spirit I think it was called). The wing commander went on this deployment.
The wing commander and his flight lead were returing to base, flying 200 ft off the South China sea at over 500 knots. At some point the flight lead looks back and the wing commander is NO WHERE to be seen.
That aircraft was never found, nor was any wreckage ever found. However, they did find the wing commanders military ID card floating on the ocean. What are the odds of that happening?
Strange things do happen sometimes, doesnt mean there is a conspiracy.
*edit* For those who have never seen one, a US military ID card is about the same size as your drivers licsence.
Absolutely correct. I was a conspiracy whacko, for a while, until I realized that this important piece of evidence was discovered at the scene just hours after the attacks. Those conspiracy goofs seem to think that, jsut because the black boxes were melted along with the steel support columns for the skyscrapers, by the 2000 degree inferno that occurred due to the massive amounts of blazing jet fuel, that the plastic passport would be melted also. :noid .
As we both know, there is nothing unusual about this, but the whackos insist on the fantasy that the 'conspirators' had to get the 'bad guys' implanted into our brains as soon as possible, while our psyche was splattered all over the place for maximum brainwash effect. LOL.
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Originally posted by Eagler
er I believe they'd figured it out without a passport
Thats absolutely correct. They had the names of the hijackers and thier afiliation with al-queda within 48 hours. Such a slam dunk peice of detective work that 'no trial necessary' for this one. The greatest mass murder in US history. People diving out of the 100th floor splattering on the ground. Hundreds of firefighters buried alive as their wives and children agonized over their horrid deaths, and 'they' figured it out without the passport within 48 hours. Umm, i missed the movie on this incredible police work, could you connect the dots for me? I get confused between the attacks and how they figured how many and who were the hijackers within 48 hours??
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Originally posted by Sandman
Hold on here...
Near the first part of the film, when the narrator speaks about aircraft crash tests by NASA, he states that the aircraft flew a total of 16 hours 22 minutes with 10 takeoffs, 69 approaches and 13 landings.
Excellent math. I've seen flight logs where the pilot has more takeoffs than landings but never one with more landings than takeoffs.
:aok
He spawned in the air a lot
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Originally posted by Stang
:lol
This thread continues to amuse me. Carry on.
:aok
Oh yea me too, I love the Conspiracy theories :)
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Originally posted by WhiteHawk
Thats absolutely correct. They had the names of the hijackers and thier afiliation with al-queda within 48 hours. Such a slam dunk peice of detective work that 'no trial necessary' for this one. The greatest mass murder in US history. People diving out of the 100th floor splattering on the ground. Hundreds of firefighters buried alive as their wives and children agonized over their horrid deaths, and 'they' figured it out without the passport within 48 hours. Umm, i missed the movie on this incredible police work, could you connect the dots for me? I get confused between the attacks and how they figured how many and who were the hijackers within 48 hours??
Is now a bad time to point out that they were on an airplane? The "government" had to figure out who amongst some 500 people it could be. You really need to start using the rest of your brain.
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Originally posted by Mini D
Is now a bad time to point out that they were on an airplane? The "government" had to figure out who amongst some 500 people it could be. You really need to start using the rest of your brain.
Hah! Looks whos talking Mr Assumptions! You assume that there is a companion to that brain cell. Did you ever stop to think this might be the work of a solo-cell? Huh? Didya? Huh?
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Originally posted by Mini D
Is now a bad time to point out that they were on an airplane? The "government" had to figure out who amongst some 500 people it could be. You really need to start using the rest of your brain.
Ehh don't encourage him, the part he is using is bad enough.
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Originally posted by Mini D
As with most conspiracy theories... you just need to ask yourself a few simple questions:
1) What kind of planning would be necessary to pull it off?
2) How many people would have to be involved?
3) How do you keep that many people silent?
Exactly.
If the aircraft that crashed into the WTC were drones, where are the aircraft and passengers that they were substituted for? It certainly would not be easy to substitute those planes. All ATC radar is recorded adding many more people to the likely hundreds this conspiracy would already require. Extremely unlikely that this many people would remain silent for this long over such a heinous act.
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I haven't watched the video linked in this thread yet, but..
Dick Cheney thought that Flight 93 had been shot down because he gave the shoot down order and interceptors were scrambled and pursuing.
Controllers knew that it was hijacked, they knew that it was on course for the capital, fighters were trailing it, the shoot down order had been comunicated, it was over rural terrain.
Do F-16s drop shell casings?
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Originally posted by dmf
Oh yea me too, I love the Conspiracy theories :)
I also llike good conspiracys that is why I created this tread. To see how many of you are out there.:t
Carry on this is getting good!:D
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Originally posted by Suave
I haven't watched the video linked in this thread yet, but..
Dick Cheney thought that Flight 93 had been shot down because he gave the shoot down order and interceptors were scrambled and pursuing.
Controllers knew that it was hijacked, they knew that it was on course for the capital, fighters were trailing it, the shoot down order had been comunicated, it was over rural terrain.
Do F-16s drop shell casings?
Yes they do!
But it is clearly evident that Flight 93 was overtaken by the passengers. Now if an F16 had shot it down AFTER or DURING the re-takeover that is entirely possible.
BUT, all the evidence thus far points to the fact that the passengers of flight 93 re-took the A/C and it crashed in the process.
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No shell casings would be evident if a missile were used. Considering the circumstances, I doubt they'd fire any warning shots, so there'd be no need to fire the guns. They'd almost certainly use a missle, or maybe two.
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Originally posted by Suave
I haven't watched the video linked in this thread yet, but..
Dick Cheney thought that Flight 93 had been shot down because he gave the shoot down order and interceptors were scrambled and pursuing.
Controllers knew that it was hijacked, they knew that it was on course for the capital, fighters were trailing it, the shoot down order had been comunicated, it was over rural terrain.
Do F-16s drop shell casings?
No, spent casings from the gun are cycled back to the ammunition drum. Spent shell casings arent ejected from the aircraft, they are reused later.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
No shell casings would be evident if a missile were used. Considering the circumstances, I doubt they'd fire any warning shots, so there'd be no need to fire the guns. They'd almost certainly use a missle, or maybe two.
Not if they didn't have any.
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Originally posted by Mini D
Is now a bad time to point out that they were on an airplane? The "government" had to figure out who amongst some 500 people it could be. You really need to start using the rest of your brain.
Ahhh, since there were only 500 passengers, it was easy to figure out which 19 were the hijackers. That makes sense. Case closed, lets go to war.:rofl
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My favorite part of this film is when they are saying the buildings were demolished intentionally..Then try to show videos of other buildings being demolished.
Notice how intentionaly demolished buildings tend to disentigrate at the bottom with the rest of the building falling inward?
The WTC falls from the top down. starting with what is above the damaged areas. But they must have been blown up by our government:noid
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Originally posted by WhiteHawk
Ahhh, since there were only 500 passengers, it was easy to figure out which 19 were the hijackers. That makes sense. Case closed, lets go to war.:rofl
Ah.. so we're back to agenda.
You were the guy trying to say how impossible it was to identify the hijackers. It's not like they'd have to show their Passports or some other form of ID to get on the plane in the first place. Remember how "odd" it was that they knew this information?
Reasons for going to war asside, you cannot continue to pretend it was nearly impossible to ID the hijackers within 48 hours. If you can, then, well, you have other problems.
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Originally posted by Mini D
Ah.. so we're back to agenda.
Reasons for going to war asside, you cannot continue to pretend it was nearly impossible to ID the hijackers within 48 hours. If you can, then, well, you have other problems.
Humor me. I cant even imagine how they had ID'd the hijackers and had all thier pictures on national TV within 48 hours. Step me through it. Feel free to use the official story if you like. Thats the one where they use the passport to palce al-quead at the scene.
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In 48 hours, the FBI would have had photos of absolutely everyone on those planes. You do realize that every photo taken of you for every ID you've gotten in the last 10 years is digital... right?
Passports, driver's licenses, whatever. They'll have footage of the airports, complete passenger lists and DEFINATELY know if someone was along for a jump-ride.
It's not rocket science there big guy. As a matter of fact, it's a huge stretch to try to explain how they couldn't have known about it. There was simply so much information on so few people. It's not like they had to pick them from everyone in the U.S. They only had to work with the names on the planes... for which everyone has to show a photo ID.
You know this, right?
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It's called a passenger manifest. Look into it. That's how they can notify next of kin within hours of a crash, or even less. After that, all you have to do is look at the manifest and see who didn't have next of kin asking about them, and who was on the list of non citizens who became suspects. It's simple police work, any junior grade detective, or for that matter, flat foot beat cop, would know how to do. It ain't rocket science.
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I also laugh at the idea of having such an extravagant plan to get us to go to war with Iraq and somehow neglecting to make any of the 9/11 hijackers Iraqi.
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Originally posted by Mini D
I also laugh at the idea of having such an extravagant plan to get us to go to war with Iraq and somehow neglecting to make any of the 9/11 hijackers Iraqi.
Yeah, given the fact that there weren't really any remains around to identify, the Feds could have made the hijackers any nationality they wanted, if you fall for all the crap from the conspiracy theory nuts. If they
were looking for an excuse to invade Iraq at the time, as the loony goobers would have you believe, any number of the hijackers could have been Iraqis.
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whitehawk
do you believe we landed ppl on the moon?
just wondering how far back your delusional mindset goes ..
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Most of you who so callously attack the effort of those who seek to expose the treason happening within our own government either grossly missunderstand the arguments, pick the hoakiest examples of bad research (there are cooks out there, as well as plants in the 9/11 truth movement intended to make the honest individuals look stupid (Victor Thorn)) or probably havn't taken an honest look at the evidence.
If you take an honest look and decide its balogna then that is your oppinion and you are certainly entitled to it.
Loose change is one movie, but certainly not the best.
Alex Jones of infowars.com has about the best ongoing coverage of how these false flag events were perpetrated.
http://www.infowars.com
Mike Ruppert's book Crossing The Rubicon is also excellent and extensively documented.
http://www.fromthewilderness.com
I'd reccoment Terrorstorm by Alex Jones as one of the best videos out there. All of Jones' videos can be found free on google.
If you want to write off those who's research really is good as ignorant, stupid or foolish, you should try to explain to us how Osama bin Laden can schedule joint wargames between NORAD and the FAA. If you don't know what I'm talking about then you have not right to criticize.
To all those committed to exposing the crimes of 9/11 I say keep up the good work!!!
Rock on! Don't be dissuaded by those who ignore your arguments simply because they don't want to believe it.
Also, to the naysayers:
Check out this declassified Joint Chiefs of Staff document (Operation Northwoods) and tell me that our government hasn't considered "We could develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington,"
http://emperors-clothes.com/images/north-8.htm
"The terror campaign could be pointed at Cuban refugees seeking haven in the United States. We could sink a boatload of Cubans enroute to Florida (real or simulated). We could foster attempts on lives of Cuban refugees in the United States even to the extent of wounding in instances to be widely publicized." See Operations Northwoods page 9, http://emperors-clothes.com/images/north-9.htm
Operation Northwoods full document form begining:
http://emperors-clothes.com/images/north-i.htm
Also, please explain to me how one could simulate a boatload of Cubans!
-68Hawk, concerned citizen and patriotic dissenter.
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I've taken an honest look at many of them. Every one I've looked at is implausible at best, dishonest at worst. The only theory involving 9/11 I consider possible is that flight 93 might have been shot down. I don't believe it happened but I'll grant that a cover up in this case is possible, also understandable.
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500 specific people is a very limited sample, and since all those 500 were on planes they were all on a passenger list. Their names on the passenger list had to correspong to ID of some sort, like a passport or drivers license could also be linked to previous activties like flights, rental cars, holtel room stays, apartment rentals etc etc..
Not really that hard to figure out, I'm not sure I see the point.
Though I'm surprised that people who say that government couldnt possiby ID the atackers in short order out of a self selected and screened sample of less than 500 people would so quickly credit the very same goverment with a highly complex and elaborate 911 "conspiracy" involving drone planes, privately owned skyscapers being rigged with explosives, secretly firing missles at the pentagon etc etc and keeping all this a secret 5 years after the fact...
Right...
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4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
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Admitting that your government can, has and will lie to you is the first step.
There is ample evidence that both towers as well as WTC7 were brought down using controlled demolitions.
Just because CNN and the other major networks are beholden to the same interests that the perpetrators are, and are actively supressing good research doesn't mean it's been kept a secret. The secret is out, and has been for years, to those who are willing to hear the arguments.
What happened at the pentagon is problematic, and no one outside of the cabal of conspirators knows what really happened, but if what they say did really happen, why havn't they released the full footage of the event instead of some crappy still frames?
Also:
The theory that 19 odd people had a planned agreement to hijack airliners and fly them into buildings is itself a 'conspiracy theory'.
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Originally posted by 68Hawk
Admitting that your government can, has and will lie to you is the first step.
There is ample evidence that both towers as well as WTC7 were brought down using controlled demolitions.
Just because CNN and the other major networks are beholden to the same interests that the perpetrators are, and are actively supressing good research doesn't mean it's been kept a secret. The secret is out, and has been for years, to those who are willing to hear the arguments.
What happened at the pentagon is problematic, and no one outside of the cabal of conspirators knows what really happened, but if what they say did really happen, why havn't they released the full footage of the event instead of some crappy still frames?
Also:
The theory that 19 odd people had a planned agreement to hijack airliners and fly them into buildings is itself a 'conspiracy theory'.
Some horses need to be put down when no longer useful
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Originally posted by 68Hawk
Admitting that your government can, has and will lie to you is the first step.
Politicians have been lying since there were politicians. This is nothing new and most people learn it early in life.
A totalitarian government which has complete control of the media and "disappears" people at will might get away with something of this magnitude simply by killing anyone/everyone that is a threat. That's really what it would take to pull something like this off. If you think we've fallen that far you really need to reevaluate your grasp on reality.
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4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
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Originally posted by lukster
That's really what it would take to pull something like this off. If you think we've fallen that far you really need to reevaluate your grasp on reality.
No, in reality it takes far, far less. Killing people rampantly would only bring scruitiny.
If you think this country isn't heading down the path of totalitarianism (it's not there yet thank goodness) then I suggest you take a more critical look at the world around you.
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Guys...you've convinced me.
This is an election year. This has enough merit that I think you should turn it into a campaign issue. You should launch a massive ad campaign, with tv commercials and documentaries and newspaper articles.
Get Michael Moore to mastermind it. He's guaranteed an audience.
Think of the damage it could do to the administration.
Make it a campaign issue. Please.
Oh please! Pretty please! PUH-LEASE...with sugar on top?!
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Originally posted by 68Hawk
No, in reality it takes far, far less. Killing people rampantly would only bring scruitiny.
If you think this country isn't heading down the path of totalitarianism (it's not there yet thank goodness) then I suggest you take a more critical look at the world around you.
I do believe we're headed in the wrong direction but we're not so far as the conspiracy theorists would have you believe.
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Killing people rampantly would only bring scruitiny.
Say this to yourself outloud, and then think about how stupid of a statement it is.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Say this to yourself outloud, and then think about how stupid of a statement it is.
Think of the source Laser, and ask yourself "Can this person be helped?" I'm not hearing a yes. ;) This HAS to be a troll, because I'm seeing two people here that need Psychological help if they aren't.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Say this to yourself outloud, and then think about how stupid of a statement it is.
How is this a stupid statement? They don't need to kill people when they have a bunch of people watching Fox news and CNN, thinking they are well informed of what's happening in the world and calling those who actually research stupid.
Shuckins,
Michael Moore is a hack who does shoddy research and makes it fit whatever he's trying to sell. I love how Alex Jones turns his own tactics against him and Moore does the same thing as all those corporate executives that Moore made so much money off 'exposing'.
When he opens his mouth he only hurts the arguments he tries to advance. I hope he keeps to himself and stops confusing and diluting the issue as he did with 'Farenheit'.
Bush makes himself look foolish enough by his own actions.
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There are enough real boogeymen in the world that we shouldn't allow ourselves to be distracted by make believe ones. Think it through 68Hawk, consider the details and what it would take to pull this off. It wouldn't be possible without many being on the inside. It would take only one guilt ridden individual to bring this whole thing down.
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yeah, the media loves to help the current administration in their coverups and "secret" information gathering techniques.
Please, if there was a shred of real evidence that 9-11 was an elaborate scheme by the Bush Administration, the media would be all over it.
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Not to mention the Democratic Party - well most of it...
That ncurageous lady represenative McKinney thought Bush was behind 911 nad llokwhat the Dems did to her..
:noid
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I've said it many times and will gladly repeat it again: The core of the democratic party is sold out to the same interests as the core of the republican party. As are the tops of the major 'news' networks, a large slice of big business, most if not all of the military industrial complex and especially anyone connected to the Bush political dynasty. They are all the same animal. There's not really much of a difference between Kerry and Bush, except their 'views' on social policy.
The tools on the news say what they're told, and package it in a bright shiny picture for your consumption.
There are news organizations that have touched on this. The major news networks almost always gloss over the arguments or grossly missrepresent them. Sometimes though there is someone at CNN or elsewhere that does some real journalism. It's there, but buried pretty deep and certainly not on the half hour of evening news that most people rely on for their info (more of which tends to be sports, weather or mindless public interest pieces than news stories anyway).
A couple examples:
http://www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/sheen_showbiz_monday_recap.htm
http://www.jonesreport.com/articles/110806_lou_dobbs_911.html
Saying that the media would tell you if you needed to know is an easy way to decieve yourself.
And really, saying that the media is not covering this ignores the huge group of independent journalists that are actively covering the lies of the administration (and other administrations for that matter). The independents are not always right, but they are not being paid by large corporations that are in bed with the powers that be.
Almost every interview I have seen with soldiers in or returning from Iraq shows them saying that what you see on the news (regardless of network) is not really what's happening over there. Why should the home front be any different?
Next someone's going to try to tell me that Bill O'reily is compassionate and credible. If you have an example of either I'd love to see it!
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"CNN the most trusted name in news"
If that doesn't scare the s*** out of you, nothing will.
...but they are not alone, have a hard look at the "news" and ask yourself how much has to do with pop culture, sports or "fear news" designed to just scare the crap out of you, if there is no scary news to report, thats ok, they run a special on pedophiles or serial killers, just in case you had a peacefull week.
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4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
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Originally posted by Squire
"CNN the most trusted name in news"
If that doesn't scare the s*** out of you, nothing will.
...but they are not alone, have a hard look at the "news" and ask yourself how much has to do with pop culture, sports or "fear news" designed to just scare the crap out of you, if there is no scary news to report, thats ok, they run a special on pedophiles or serial killers, just in case you had a peacefull week.
Exactly! Don't forget the stories about runaway gun violence. When do they air stories about people defending themselves with firearms? Not enough.
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Either and? Gosh I'm really hurt. People who can't bring good arguments usually prefer character attacks than honest discourse. The spitting image of O'reilyesque journalism and deliberation.
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I watched the towers fall. I've seen buildings that were deliberately demolished with explosives. Wasnt the same thing.
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http://www.debunking911.com/
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Originally posted by Elfie
I watched the towers fall. I've seen buildings that were deliberately demolished with explosives. Wasnt the same thing.
Wasn't supposed to look like the same thing, though WTC7 did look exactly like a controlled demolition and Larry Silverstien (if I got that name right) the leaseholder admitted on camera that he ordered the building pulled.
cav58d, I checked out the link you put up and I'm really not impressed. It's rather sparsely documented, and relies on a meager body of evidence compared to the claims of the 9/11 research movement. It also fails to even address half of the arguments, and relies mainly on discussions of the collapse of buildings themselves.
I said it in my first post in this thread and no one has wanted to touch it, so I will say it again:
Please explain to me how Osama bin Laden, or anyone else outside of our government could schedule wargames for NORAD and the FAA.
I'll refer you to:
Operation Vigilant Guardian
Operation Vigilant Warrior
Operation Northern Vigilance
all of which were running on the morning of 9/11 as the attacks unfolded (amongst others).
Some involved false blips on FAA radars simulating hijacked airliners. Some actually involved live fly exercises where planes were simulating hijacked airliners. This is why those who were charged with our air control and defense asked themselves 'is this part of the drill, is this a mistake?' when they heard reports of real airliners crashing into real buildings.
Very fishy that the real thing happened as a drill for it was taking place. Fishier still that Condi told people 'we had no idea they were planning to do this.'
Dr. Steven Jones' chemical analysis showed that thermate, not thermite was used. Residue confirmed this. If there was nothing to hide, why wasn't the evidence preserved?
If the fire, fueled by jet fuel, burned as hot as some claim (which only approaches plausibility when combusted in ideal mixtures and conditions as in a jet engine, not as it did in puddles with thick black smoke coming out), on its own with no demolitions to aid it, then why are there pictures of people standing in the airplane holes, and why are there radio messages from the fire fighters in the buildings claiming that they were almost under control?
Answer some of these serious questions (with real answers, not jibberish or supposition) and you've made some headway.
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4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
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Originally posted by Eagler
4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
:rofl
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A. There aren't but a few companies around capable of doing controlled demolition of the type needed to bring those buildings down.
B. It takes weeks, if not a month or more, to do all the work necessary to make it happen.
C. It takes tons of explosives, miles of wiring, and all sorts of equipment, including torches, drills, saws, and jack hammers to get the job done.
D. There were THOUSANDS of employees and dozens of companies in those buildings every day of the week.
E. There were even more visitors to those buildings on a daily basis.
F. Surely someone here, like Toad, can tell us how many people are involved in the airlines with two aircraft that crashed into the buildings, but surely it numbers in the hundreds at least.
So, you conspiracy nuts are going to tell us that somewhere around THIRTY THOUSAND or more people involved in this conspiracy to bring down these three buildings with two airliners and controlled demolition?
Now remember, that means you're going either get 100% participation by EVERYONE or you're going to KILL a bunch of them.
Don't forget, NONE of these people involved can ever develop a conscience, never change their mind, never get drunk and talk, never go under an anesthetic, and must remain silent forever. Further, there can be no paper trail or anything else for the rabid media to get their claws in.
Or are you going to tell us that all of that equipment, and all of that work, went on while all of those people were completely oblivious to it, for an extended period of time?
Either way, one thing is certain. Idiocy and paranoia are rampant in places. And the relatively sane and intelligent know where it is.
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I don't think anybody predected the collapse of the WTC buildings whether it be the terrorists, the government or the designers of the buildings. Aircraft collisions with the buildings were modeled as were fires, but I don't believe jet fuel fires were completely modeled.
The main circumstance that raised suspicion is the way the buildings collapsed. It just looked so neet and clean. It is a very easy thing to explain (as has been done numerous times), but impressions formed are hard to dissuade. It just LOOKED like it was planned.
Once the painfully obvious incidents are explained completely, the conspiracy theorists cling to the fringes in hopes of finding some kind of chinc in some suposed armor. Be it a cruise missile into the pentagon, or the intentional demolition of a nearby building.
I find 68Hawk's use of the phrase "I checked out the link you put up and I'm really not impressed. It's rather sparsely documented, and relies on a meager body of evidence compared to the claims of the 9/11 research movement" to be quite ironic. It's the ludicrous aspect of conspiracy theories: They don't really need to prove anything. They just make a statement and insist that someone needs to prove them wrong.
There is no proof that a building was demolished. There is no proof that a cruise missile hit the pentagon. There is no proof of any of the conspiracy "theories". There is absolutely zero proof of any of it... That's why they're called "theories". A conspiracy theorist will cite eye witness testimony for a cruise missile attack on the pentagon, but ignore the fact that people said the same thing about the WTC prior to seeing the media coverage of it. A conspiracy theorist will insist on demolition of a building without knowing exactly how much work is done to demolish a building. A conspiracy theorist will make it sound as if installing remote controlls on commercial aircraft is an easy thing to do because NASA did a fuel retardant explosion test 25 years ago. A conspiracy theorist will cite the "fishyness" of operations that traditionally occur during the summer months as if somehow, this year, ORIs are rare.
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Originally posted by Mini D
It's the ludicrous aspect of conspiracy theories: They don't really need to prove anything. They just make a statement and insist that someone needs to prove them wrong.
Exactly Mini, he dodged this "tidbit" when asked by me earlier. I'm through with him. He probably belongs to that "community" near Mt. Shasta that think UFO's are based out of it.
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4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
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Wasn't supposed to look like the same thing,
Riiiight. As Mini-D said, it takes time to wire a building for demolition. In the case of the WTC it would literally take weeks and weeks to finish running all the wires and setting the charges, during which time NO ONE noticed anything?
I watched a building get demolished here in the Denver Metro area on tv. IIRC it took over a week to set up that 10 story building for demolition. When they did demolish it, it basically imploded on itself and the rubble fell into a pile. I have watched several buildings being demolished. It is actually pretty cool how they can make a building collapse with explosives. Every building I have watched being demolished intentionally has collapsed in the same manner, an implosion. That is NOT what happened with the WTC. There was NO implosion, the buildings collapsed from the top down. That is indicative of a structural failure, not demolitions.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
A. There aren't but a few companies around capable of doing controlled demolition of the type needed to bring those buildings down.
B. It takes weeks, if not a month or more, to do all the work necessary to make it happen.
C. It takes tons of explosives, miles of wiring, and all sorts of equipment, including torches, drills, saws, and jack hammers to get the job done.
D. There were THOUSANDS of employees and dozens of companies in those buildings every day of the week.
E. There were even more visitors to those buildings on a daily basis.
F. Surely someone here, like Toad, can tell us how many people are involved in the airlines with two aircraft that crashed into the buildings, but surely it numbers in the hundreds at least.
So, you conspiracy nuts are going to tell us that somewhere around THIRTY THOUSAND or more people involved in this conspiracy to bring down these three buildings with two airliners and controlled demolition?
Now remember, that means you're going either get 100% participation by EVERYONE or you're going to KILL a bunch of them.
Don't forget, NONE of these people involved can ever develop a conscience, never change their mind, never get drunk and talk, never go under an anesthetic, and must remain silent forever. Further, there can be no paper trail or anything else for the rabid media to get their claws in.
Or are you going to tell us that all of that equipment, and all of that work, went on while all of those people were completely oblivious to it, for an extended period of time?
Either way, one thing is certain. Idiocy and paranoia are rampant in places. And the relatively sane and intelligent know where it is.
Captain, please stop muddling up their theories with facts and common sense. It makes them very uncomfortable.