Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: HomeBoy on August 13, 2006, 05:35:02 PM
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Here's a little twist to things.
(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n199/snomhf/finishedExterior.jpg)
This is an old CH Force FX gameport stick gutted of its JS components and replaced with FighterStick inards and one of my lefty handles. The FF is handled by the circuit boards out of a Logitech Wingman FF stick (haven't installed those yet).
My buddy Sparx over at the CH-hangar is the author of this really cool mod. He calls it the "Franken Force." Many thanks to you Sparx.
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Great work!
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that was the best stick I ever had.
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I'm thinking of find out how to make my Fighterstick shorter, the base of the stick is too far down for me thumb to reach the 8way hat.
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Originally posted by RTSigma
I'm thinking of find out how to make my Fighterstick shorter, the base of the stick is too far down for me thumb to reach the 8way hat.
Could be done but things are crammed pretty tight inside that handle. It could be done though.
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Originally posted by RTSigma
I'm thinking of find out how to make my Fighterstick shorter, the base of the stick is too far down for me thumb to reach the 8way hat.
Im going to be buying a CH stick soon and I have the same concern.
I am thinking though. Instead of cutting the stick down.
why not bring the rest (where you park the side of your hand) up?
Curious. in your opinion
How too far up is that hat located?
Another thought. open the stick and swap hat locations.
Making the 8 way lower and the 4 way on top
BTW if anyone has a broken (as in snapped off) hat
In a fit of desperation I devised a quick fix
Take a heavy paperclip and unbend it heat one end up and insert it into the hat. Next measure down about 3/4 of an inch and snip it off there using a pair of wirecutters.
Now heat up the other end and insert it into the switch itself and hold in place till it cools.
There ya have it.
Now its probably made better then the original
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Dred, never thought about switching hats...I think I'll give that a try sometime in the future when I have the resources.
The 8way hat for my hand is a stretch for me. When my hand is rested at the cup of the stick, the tip of my thumb barely touches the middle of the hat. Bringing my hand up loses the comfort rest makes my hand feel loose.
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Originally posted by RTSigma
Dred, never thought about switching hats...I think I'll give that a try sometime in the future when I have the resources.
The 8way hat for my hand is a stretch for me. When my hand is rested at the cup of the stick, the tip of my thumb barely touches the middle of the hat. Bringing my hand up loses the comfort rest makes my hand feel loose.
Yea thats exactly what Im afraid of too
thats why I've stuck with my ancient Thrustmaster XFighter stick so long
the size is absolutely perfect for my hand
Not too big and not too small
As for the CH stick
Im thinking a small block of wood carved to shape attached to the top of the rest (cup) might do the trick also.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Im going to be buying a CH stick soon and I have the same concern.
I am thinking though. Instead of cutting the stick down.
why not bring the rest (where you park the side of your hand) up?
You could probably cut about 1" out of the stick just above the pinky button. That's about the only free space in that stick.
Curious. in your opinion
How too far up is that hat located?
There isn't much you can do with relocating that hat. You see, the trigger button is pretty much right there and if you tried to move that hat up, it would be in the way of the trigger button.
Another thought. open the stick and swap hat locations.
Making the 8 way lower and the 4 way on top
Nope. Can't do that. Sorry. The 8-way, the two 4-ways plus the button in the upper left corner are all on a circuit board. To try to move those around would involve building a new circuit board. I doubt you'd be willing to take that on.
Pretty cool idea about how to fix a broken hat.
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Curious to see how well this hybrid runs in games, and how Windows detects it.
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HomeBoy, obviously you know alot about modding CH sticks....
I got a question for you. the 8 way hat on a fighterstick pro is that hard plastic thing with the pointy center...
my thumb doesn't reach it well even with my hand up off the base of the stick, and pushing it to full up is hard.
I have thought about filing it down and glueing some kind of softer material with a larger "lump" to move about, or out right replacing the hat button with some other material.
how hard is it to remove that hat, and is it easy to attach it back properly?
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Originally posted by Mustaine
HomeBoy, obviously you know alot about modding CH sticks....
I got a question for you. the 8 way hat on a fighterstick pro is that hard plastic thing with the pointy center...
We call that a Coolie Hat.
my thumb doesn't reach it well even with my hand up off the base of the stick, and pushing it to full up is hard.
I have thought about filing it down and glueing some kind of softer material with a larger "lump" to move about, or out right replacing the hat button with some other material.
how hard is it to remove that hat, and is it easy to attach it back properly?
To remove the coolie hat, you'd have to be reasonable at soldering. You would also probably want to use a desolderer (I call it a solder sucker). You can get one at Radio Shack. It's a tube looking thing with a plunger on the end that you press down and it literally sucks the solder out of a joint once you heat it up. It would be a real mess to do this without one. Once you desolder the hat, it will lift right out. Putting the new one it is a simple matter of touching a little solder to each of the posts. This may not be what you want to hear. You could actually swap two of the hats using this method if you desire.
One idea would be to rough the hat up with a file and then use some epoxy putty over it. You could fashion that in any shape you wanted. That might be the easier approach.
I hear lots of guys complain that the stick is too tall. CH should really redesign that handle and shorten it.
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Originally posted by RTSigma
I'm thinking of find out how to make my Fighterstick shorter, the base of the stick is too far down for me thumb to reach the 8way hat.
Sigma,
You could cut a ring out just above the pinky switch and below the base of the Boat hat. Obviously you would need to remove everything from the handles before doing it. Use a good epoxy glue and file the finished work to smooth it out a bit. I would reinforce the inside cuts with a little extra epoxy and maybe a little fiberglass. I do stuff like this all the time. CH sticks are very easy to cut and sand. It's not plastic, it's a fiber-filled plastic type substance. Very nice to work with.
(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n199/snomhf/ShorteningFS.jpg)
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ahh thanks, no thanks. I can solder, and know exactly what you explaining...
the epoxy is probably the best idea...
but, how rough can I file the hat while it is still attached?
my original plan was to take the hat off, then either chop off the tip and attach some type of rubbery shape to it, or manufacture a whole new piece based on the base of the original hat.
just something to give it at least a modicum of grip.
guess i'll just live with it, don't want to risk messing it up or something. too expensive of a mistake for a stick in mint condition still :eek:
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Originally posted by Mustaine
the epoxy is probably the best idea...
but, how rough can I file the hat while it is still attached?
Mustaine,
You could hold the hat with a pair of needle nosed pliers then file it. You wouldn't have to grip it very tight. If you could find some thin metal or something like that, you might be able to cut off a couple of small pieces and slip them in the gap of the hat to keep it from moving while you're working on it. Does that make sense? If you have a Dremel, you could use a shaping bit to rough up the hat or even shape it. The Dremel, because of the high speed, will not unduly shake the hat too much as to damage it.
You could actually try putting epoxy putty right over the hat the way it is. Worst case it will just pop off. You could try ruffing it up with a razor blade or something like that.
I understand your hesitancy to get into this because of your investment. I do this all the time and since guys pay me to mod their sticks, I guess that makes me a "professional!" :lol Whoo Hoo!
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never thought of a dremel.... i own 2 :lol
what about material, can you picture what i want? like a flat mushroom shaped thing, or something with a bit of grip... is there a specific product you'd recommend?
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The pointy tip on the coolie hat on my TMN was making my thumb sore. so all I did is heat up a knife and melted it down to smooth it over some. I pulled it straight up when done and ended up with a semi rough texture thats comfortable yet provieds some traction
(yea I like playing with fire LOL)
another thought. Instead of cutting the stick.
Clay, We're only talking about what do we need? maybe 1/2 inch to an inch
Mold some of that clay that hardens around the portion of the stick you rest your hand on, You can even shape it to fit your specific hand to a true custom fit.
Might be better as a first try without running the risk of screwing up a $100 stick by cutting it. And if it doesnt work you can always cut it later
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Clay, We're only talking about what do we need? maybe 1/2 inch to an inch
Mold some of that clay that hardens around the portion of the stick you rest your hand on, You can even shape it to fit your specific hand to a true custom fit.
Might be better as a first try without running the risk of screwing up a $100 stick by cutting it. And if it doesnt work you can always cut it later [/B]
Fine idea!
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Hi
Very nice modification.
I'm a happy CH FighterStick user with small hands. You find my solution from here (http://12.193.161.228/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=181441).
It work for me just fine.
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My Question is Why use a logijunk Board in it ?? does the logitech board respond smoothly /correctly with Real Potentiometers in it ??
I used a Saitec St 290 pro board in my 1st mad catz panther and wired in a game port for my peds it worked sweet ... with the exception of losing the trim button and 2 of the base buttons.
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Originally posted by Roscoroo
My Question is Why use a logijunk Board in it ?? does the logitech board respond smoothly /correctly with Real Potentiometers in it ??
I used a Saitec St 290 pro board in my 1st mad catz panther and wired in a game port for my peds it worked sweet ... with the exception of losing the trim button and 2 of the base buttons.
I was wondering when someone was going to ask that question. What's logijunk is the pots! Those are by far the crappiest pots I have EVER seen in my life, and I'm 53 years old! When I first pulled one of them out, I didn't recogize it as a pot. I thought it was a plastic clip that held the pot in place! As for the PCB, it works very well indeed. You do have to change power supplies as the one that comes with the Logitech is too small and the one that came with the Force FX is too large. A 12VDC 1A AC adaptor is "just right.'
In fact, if you could replace the pots in a Logitech stick with "real" pots, it would probably be a pretty decent stick. Problem is, there is just no room in there for anything larger than what's there. I really hate the goofy "Star Trek" look of the things too but that's a personal problem I guess.
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Simple and easy fix . I got the parts at the local hardware store . 1.5" L bracket and hose clamp , works very good for time and effort that went into it .
As for the hat causeing you pain in the thumb , I went after it with a file and rounded the center so it's nice now , very easy to do and costs nothing to boot .
I did raise my elbow rest up also , that at least 2.5" above the desk top now .
Spro
PS: it works good , check my Fighter hit percent :)
Edit : hat pic added
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/1007_1155674493_bracket.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/1007_1155677564_hat.jpg)
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Originally posted by airspro
As for the hat causeing you pain in the thumb , I went after it with a file and rounded the center so it's nice now , very easy to do and costs nothing to boot .
Except that you cut your picture off short of seeing your coolie hat!
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Added hat fix . np
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Originally posted by RTSigma
I'm thinking of find out how to make my Fighterstick shorter, the base of the stick is too far down for me thumb to reach the 8way hat.
Your comment that "the base of the stick is too far down for me thumb to reach the 8way hat" quite likely (absolutely sure, but anyway) is based ona pretty common misunderstanding:
CH's Fighterstick (just like TM's HOTAS Cougar) is modelled after the flightstick used in the F-16 fighter. Its development and design has cost the USAF quite some time and money, and you may believe (or not) that its shape is ergonomical.
If you're having difficulties with reaching B2 (the thumb button on top of the stick, next to the POV-coolie) or the POV-coolie (the 8-way hat on top) with your thumb, then this might not be an issue of the stick but of you using it in a wrong way.
This stick is supposed to be used in two ways:
- Usually, your hand rests on the plate at the base of the stick - this is the so-called "low grip" which allows you to reach the trigger (of course) as well as the lower 3 coolie-hats and buttons 3 (on the left side of the stick) and 4 (the "pinkie" on the lower front of the stick);
- If you need to reach for the POV-coolie or button 2 (left of the POV-coolie), you are supposed to change into the so-called "high grip" by raising your hand from the plate.
I don't have too big hands, either - but I've never had any issues with using my HOTAS during the past dozen years. I don't mean to lecture you, but you'd be surprised just how many virtual fighter jockeys simply do not know about this.
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Originally posted by DonULFonso
CH's Fighterstick (just like TM's HOTAS Cougar) is modelled after the flightstick used in the F-16 fighter. Its development and design has cost the USAF quite some time and money, and you may believe (or not) that its shape is ergonomical.]
Ulf,
I don't doubt the validity of what you are saying here. However, in the real F-16, the coolie hat is not a POV. Most people use the coolie as a POV which means their hand is ALWAYS in the "high grip" position. I suspect that if that hat was indeed a POV in RL, this stick design would have been rejected.
Maybe this is yet another example that making something more realistic is not always making things better. Hmmm
Sounds like the real solution this this problem is three letters: TIR
cheers!
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Most people use the coolie as a POV which means their hand is ALWAYS in the "high grip" position. I suspect that if that hat was indeed a POV in RL, this stick design would have been rejected.
Amen bother ! Well said .
If they just would make the lower left hat a 8 way , problems would be solved :)
What CH should do is make a good NON F16 stick that WORKS and is NOT modeled after ANYTHING but good for us armchair fighter pilots :) THe Saitek X36 stick was good fitting to me and many others , too damn bad they had such ****ty hats :) hehe
I buy CH gear cause the other stuff on the market at this time just don't last or needs to be moded to much ( as in driving up costs to IMO unreasonalbe levels ) I don't buy it because it looks like a F16 stick , and I bet most people don't buy it for that reason either , enough said about that .
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" both of you.
I understand the whole "high / low" position on the stick, just don't like it.
If I had my way a logitec extreme 3d stick had the best gaming ergonomics i personally have used. put the quality of the CH products in the electronics and materials, shape it like an ergonomic gamer would like and you got yourself the ultimate product.
heck if i knew where to buy raw materials, and make molds for the quality plastic that CH uses I'd try and fashion a stick handle myself. make it a solid deal and use the dremel to fashion the holes / mountings for the hats and buttons. then drill a hole down the center for the wires, and voila! make the last inch of the stick shaped exactly like the base of the factory CH stick, and attach it to the stock base. :aok
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oh cmok ... the f-16 stick wasnt designed with gaming and POV hat in mind ..
there all a pain in the tail to reach comfortbly ...
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Originally posted by DonULFonso
Your comment that "the base of the stick is too far down for me thumb to reach the 8way hat" quite likely (absolutely sure, but anyway) is based ona pretty common misunderstanding:
CH's Fighterstick (just like TM's HOTAS Cougar) is modelled after the flightstick used in the F-16 fighter. Its development and design has cost the USAF quite some time and money, and you may believe (or not) that its shape is ergonomical.
If you're having difficulties with reaching B2 (the thumb button on top of the stick, next to the POV-coolie) or the POV-coolie (the 8-way hat on top) with your thumb, then this might not be an issue of the stick but of you using it in a wrong way.
This stick is supposed to be used in two ways:
- Usually, your hand rests on the plate at the base of the stick - this is the so-called "low grip" which allows you to reach the trigger (of course) as well as the lower 3 coolie-hats and buttons 3 (on the left side of the stick) and 4 (the "pinkie" on the lower front of the stick);
- If you need to reach for the POV-coolie or button 2 (left of the POV-coolie), you are supposed to change into the so-called "high grip" by raising your hand from the plate.
I don't have too big hands, either - but I've never had any issues with using my HOTAS during the past dozen years. I don't mean to lecture you, but you'd be surprised just how many virtual fighter jockeys simply do not know about this. [/B]
But where do you keep your stick?
If its low then yea. the stick will work fine. But as for myself and Im sure alot of other people keep the stick on their desktops.
I know thats where I keep mine.
Even with my deskcair raised to its uppermost position the best I can hope to have is my elbow level with the base of the stick. Noteven the handrest. but the base.
Which means to grab the stick comfortably Im am using the low grip position.
to use the high grip position I have to lift my entire arm up. which is ok onve in a while but not ideal for extended periods of time as it will become quite uncomfortable after a short time.
Yes this sticks were well thought out. and in an F16 where your reaching down to the stick and not up Im sure it works WONDERFULLY.
But a fair deal of us dont have nor do we want to have to have the stick lower and between our legs
So while it works great for the Air farce Its not ergonimically designed for your average home desk pilot
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Originally posted by airspro
Amen bother ! Well said .
If they just would make the lower left hat a 8 way , problems would be solved :)
What CH should do is make a good NON F16 stick that WORKS and is NOT modeled after ANYTHING but good for us armchair fighter pilots :) THe Saitek X36 stick was good fitting to me and many others , too damn bad they had such ****ty hats :) hehe
I buy CH gear cause the other stuff on the market at this time just don't last or needs to be moded to much ( as in driving up costs to IMO unreasonalbe levels ) I don't buy it because it looks like a F16 stick , and I bet most people don't buy it for that reason either , enough said about that .
Maybe what we should do is take all the pics of the modified sticks and Email em to CH
Kinda send em a hint
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This is a no-win for CH as it is for TM. Hardcore guys scream for "realistic sticks" and when the manufacturers make one, we get the complains like in this thread. I'm not attacking any of you guys for your complaints, I'm just pointing out the delimma. Personally, I like the feel of the CH FS because I have big hands and it fits me nicely. I certainly do see everyone's point here though.
Simmers can really go off the deep end. You should hear some of the comments guys make toward me because I dared to "disgrace" the F-16 stick by making it left-handed. The Falcon4 crowd is by far the worst about this demand for realism at ALL levels. Over at the Frugal's forum, there are threads that go on and on arguing about how figuring out how to put engine RPM on the HUD amounts to "cheating." These arguments get so outragous that Frugal ends up closing down the thread and sometimes banning certain individuals from the forum. Out of all the sims I play, the AH crowd seems the most balanced to me. That's why I always seem to find my way back here after all these years of playing this game. There is a definite line between "fun" and "realism". Too much of one at the expense of the other is not good.
I think the lesson to be learned here is be careful when you cry for "realism", you just might get it!
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Personally my feeling is if you can make a left handed stick...Good for you!
More power to ya.
Im all for realistic sticks also. But they dont have to be realistic down to the last millimeter LOL
They just have to look realistic.
really though if we HAD to have realistic sticks none of us would be using a CH or TM stick as I dont think many...if any WWII aircraft used sticks that looked like these sticks
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Hehe, yes, if you want "realism" (as much as possible at least), then a TrackIR is the only way to go (and one I've never regretted, only that I didn't get one earlier ;) )!
For those without one, well, I've been without one myself for years, but I've never used the "POV-coolie" as a POV-coolie :D . After all, I always had programmable controllers, so why should I stick to some convention that was established when even a single hat was a luxury? My TMs always had 4 coolie-hats on the stick plus one on the throttle, so I've used the one on the throttle from the start. This way I didn't need to change grips, and I always could control any of my stick's coolies at any time, even while using the POV. CH's PT features 4 coolies, so why not use the 8-way POV-coolie as exactly this: the POV-coolie?