Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: zorstorer on August 14, 2006, 01:15:09 PM
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Did any planes during WW2 tilt their guns down so they could strafe while flying level?
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i think the Piagio 108 had a monster gun that did that (102mm?) & there was a Ki-67 or G4M version also, i forget which, with a cluster of 1 shot guns too...& of course the good 'ol inverted straffing pass by a schrage musik nachjaeger & any nose turret equipt plane, or a high wing plane with tight convergence (i.e. PZL-11)
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Hs129 with downward facing recoiless guns, one shot, and a magnetic sensor that triggered them when the plane flew over a GV.
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I should have worded it better. I really was wondering about normal fighter type A/C like the tiffy. Did they ever put in a slight downward angle so they could strafe longer without have to pull out as soon?
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Originally posted by Karnak
Hs129 with downward facing recoiless guns, one shot, and a magnetic sensor that triggered them when the plane flew over a GV.
If it flew directly over it, wouldn't the sensor pick it up too late for the guns to be fired? (regarding deflection of the guns)
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sensor angled slightly foward. detects target. physics does the rest
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i believe there was a version of the soviet i-16 that could tilt it's cannons/mgs like 20 degrees or sumthing
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Someone posted a picture before of a bomber with the bomb bay filled with downward facing guns
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Wasn't there a 190 which had 5 recoilless shells mounted in tubes either side of the fuselage?
IIRC, it was the sort of system Karnak describes for the Hs 129.
There were also some 163s which had this sort of thing for air-to-air. Made one claim for a viermot, an RCAF Lancaster which was able to RTB less the rear turret and its gunner, poor sod.
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Originally posted by zorstorer
I should have worded it better. I really was wondering about normal fighter type A/C like the tiffy. Did they ever put in a slight downward angle so they could strafe longer without have to pull out as soon?
would be tough to see your target under your nose that way
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Originally posted by Raptor
Someone posted a picture before of a bomber with the bomb bay filled with downward facing guns
I was looking for that one yesterday aswell after reading this thread :)
It was (I believe) a Lancaster packed with .303 mg's
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The Japanese had some bombers with a battery of downward-pointing 20mm Oerlikon guns in the bomb-bay. The USSR had a similar arrangement with a large number of PPSh SMGs.
IIRC one of the German MG pods carried by Stukas had the guns pointing downwards at an angle.
There were also some Russian bombers with a clever arrangement of guns in the bomb bay. They pointed downwards at a shallow angle, and once the gunner started to fire at the target, the guns automatically tracked downwards to keep firing at the same target, provided that the pilot kept flying the plane dead level at a set height and speed. Which was not the most popular activity if the target was defended by AA guns...
Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)
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In regards to the 163 post, yes the Germans experimented with a system that aimed guns upward and they were triggered by the light change (shadow) as the 163 passed under a flight of bombers....I used to have a book that had a paragraph and a picture of the system in it....but it got rained on :(
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there is something about that in Mano Ziegler's book Rocket Fighter and that other guy who was a bigshot but i forget his name even though i read his book about the Me-163's book also. it worked good, & even once or a few times in combat iirc
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Originally posted by Yoshimbo
i believe there was a version of the soviet i-16 that could tilt it's cannons/mgs like 20 degrees or sumthing
I think IL2 was also.
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http://www.ctrl-c.liu.se/misc/ram/pe-2sh.html
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Originally posted by zorstorer
I should have worded it better. I really was wondering about normal fighter type A/C like the tiffy. Did they ever put in a slight downward angle so they could strafe longer without have to pull out as soon?
Don't think that would have happened. With the big noses and poor over the nose visibility in most fighters any downward tilt would have rendered the guns almost useless for air-to-air engagements while gaining very little in prolonging the ability to strafe. The air-to-air ability was critical even for fighters that were mostly dedicated to air-to-ground. Someone here probably has the numbers (they always do) but I'd expect that you'd find the guns actually tilted up as much as possible given the airframe/wing structure to provide the best ability to lead a target while keeping sight. One interesting variation I've seen was a Grumman Cougar experiement during the Korean War. It had four MG mounted in the nose that could elevate and traverse. Believe the guns were aimed by a primative helmet mounted sight and could theoretically hit anything in the entire forward hemisphere. Wasn't practical for several reasons (including the imminent installation of air-intercept radars in the nose) and was dropped.
Mace