Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: tikky on August 14, 2006, 05:16:43 PM
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How come it seems that Muslims in America seem to be tamer than the ones residing in Europe.
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one word.
flouride.
:noid
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I don't think we have as many muslims here as they do in Europe..
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They're waiting.
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Originally posted by dmf
They're waiting.
Thats probably about the size of it too
Probably waiting for significant numbers.
Hispanics didnt whine for the longest time either.
Now Im almost ashamed Im of Spanish (among other things) decent
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One the sweet air of freedom chokes them, eventually causing them to civilize and become productive members of society. Two, they are cunning devils and will wait til they have enough of them to start something
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Problems?
Noooo. (http://www.sharia.dk/Skribenter/hedegaard/rotten_denmark.html).
Don't be such as Islamophobe. 'Tis better to ignore the facts.
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Originally posted by Pooh21
One the sweet air of freedom chokes them, eventually causing them to civilize and become productive members of society.
You could also say that since 911 happened in America , and many people in America own firearms.... Not rioting or having anti American protest ralleys is just showing some common sense.
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Originally posted by Shifty
You could also say that since 911 happened in America , and many people in America own firearms.... Not rioting or having anti American protest ralleys is just showing some common sense.
when 9/11 happened after the towers fell I was headed out the door with my WW2 commemorative sharpened German E-tool when the Wife stopped me. For the best I guess
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Originally posted by Pooh21
when 9/11 happened after the towers fell I was headed out the door with my WW2 commemorative sharpened German E-tool when the Wife stopped me. For the best I guess
I'm glad she stopped you. Otherwise we may not be enjoying your company today.:) I doubt they fly AH in D block.
I understand how you felt. We did have a guy down here that shot a couple convience store clerks in the middle of the night. He claimed it was retaliation for 911. Actually he just looked like a meth head who suddenly felt he had a reason to run amuck. I don't remember if he got the death penalty or not. I hope he did.
The people he shot were just working at their job trying to feed their families. I would like to see more American Muslims , especially Muslim clergy in America denounce Radical Islam. Come to think of it.... I'd like to at least see some of them do it.
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Originally posted by Shifty
You could also say that since 911 happened in America , and many people in America own firearms.... Not rioting or having anti American protest ralleys is just showing some common sense.
LOL good point!
I'd love to see these yutzes throw an Anti-USA rally anywhere near Lazs.
His trigger finger would be so sore, he wouldnt be able to post for weeks!
:cool:
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Originally posted by LePaul
LOL good point!
I'd love to see these yutzes throw an Anti-USA rally anywhere near Lazs.
His trigger finger would be so sore, he wouldnt be able to post for weeks!
:cool:
LOL I agree. Doing that in front of Laz would put you in the running for The Darwin Awards (http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/)
:rofl
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Originally posted by Pooh21
One the sweet air of freedom chokes them, eventually causing them to civilize and become productive members of society. Two, they are cunning devils and will wait til they have enough of them to start something
One, keep thinking that, thats what they want you think, while they're planting their terrorist cells deep in the back of your neighborhood, undiscovered till its too late cause we have a kinder gentler country that cant do anything until after the fact.
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I do believe that 2 is the proper method of handling the little piggies
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And until they make a move we do nothing. thats the problem, we know where they are, but we can't do anything until they blow up a building or two. I say do to them what they do to us.
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Originally posted by Shifty
You could also say that since 911 happened in America , and many people in America own firearms.... Not rioting or having anti American protest ralleys is just showing some common sense.
Washington DC protest....
(http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6695/161/1600/freedomfighters.jpg)
(http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6695/161/1600/allisrael.jpg)
(http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6695/161/1600/gopalestine1.jpg)
A group of Pro-Israel supporters are assulted by marchers at a pro-terrorist rally. This was in Boston.
Gobbed by the Peaceniks -- Report from the "Support Lebanon" Rally (http://www.solomonia.com/blog/archives/008897.shtml)
The violence and intolerlance is already here...its just edited and omitted by the mainstream media, who prefers to sho the poor peaceful Hezbollah and Palestinian supporters steadfastly opposing the system with honor and dignity, instead of really showing them as they are...violent, intolerant, filthy, loudmouthed moron
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Bah...the pics got "x'd"....follow the link anyways.
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tks Shaky. Interesting read and clips there.
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Thank for the complete unbiased and accountable source.
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Originally posted by tikky
How come it seems that Muslims in America seem to be tamer than the ones residing in Europe.
Our muslims are very tame.. We have a few fundamentalist muslims like everyone else and they are more outspoken and in some ways rather disgusting, but so are the fundamentalist christians that we have.. Not much difference between the two groups.
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Untill you live in England you have no idea about the problems of ever increasing muslim society.
they are the rascists, they are violent and unfriendly.
the recent terror plans that were stopped in the UK involved 2 people from my town, and 1 of them i went to school with.
when we have trouble on weekends in town, the first thing that a muslim will throw at us is 'white ****s, you're going to get what is coming to you'
I am not rascist, but allowing countless hordes of people into your country is a bad idea.
when those hordes are seemingly intent on destroying your country from the inside it defies reason.
when i walk places late at night, I carry two small bandages with me at all time to bind my fists (yeah, laugh, but trust me it makes your fist into a brick) When i see 2 or more asians walking towards me, i get ready to react.
it not prejudice, its common sense to be ready for it when your whole life has been a conflict with these bastards.
my town is 35% white, 30% black, 30% muslim and 5% other.
200 years of 'white global power' has come to an end, and the man who believes it is all forgiven and forgotten is a fool.
it a climate of fear and confrontation that is growing each minute.
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Sorry to hear that Bat. Maybe you can encourage them to move to utopia Norway with Nisen. :huh
In the mean time, stay safe.
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Originally posted by Shifty
Sorry to hear that Bat. Maybe you can encourage them to move to utopia Norway with Nisen. :huh
In the mean time, stay safe.
Utopia? Far from it, but the problems that Bat speaks of is not something i can relat to.
Sure.. we have alot of crime issues with foreign folk with a different skin tone, and that a majority of ALL crime commited in Norway are done by these people. The point is that far from all of them are muslim just because they may look like they belong to that religion.
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(one mistake sorry, edit: 30% indian asians not 30% muslim)
its nothing to do with even rascism in my view. its just the nature of putting large groups of humans together whose histories and beliefs will always conflict.....and then attempting to force them all to pretend there is no difference between any of them
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
(one mistake sorry, edit: 30% indian asians not 30% muslim)
its nothing to do with even rascism in my view. its just the nature of putting large groups of humans together whose histories and beliefs will always conflict.....and then telling them there is no difference between any of them
So basicly its an integration problem, and not a immigration problem?
Some communities have a large group of immigrants while other more rural areas has few or none?
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no, its just a problem. does not need an adjective.
i think shifty brought up the best part...in his point about having weapons.
translates to me as enemies of this country think " Ha! look at this former ruler of tyrany, they now wont even let their people have guns, lets go live there and get some payback"
our government is so scared of its own people that it neutered us.
I had always had thoughts about our 'nanny state' approach to government, but Tony Blairs Labour party has truly crusified us all and triggered the world to laugh at us.
this is the government who banned the centuries old tradition of fow hunting simply because it was 'a bit harsh on the fox'
im starting to believe in the pro gun argument.
all im saying is England is going down the pan just as fast as America, Its just America is so powerfull they had to do the biggest and most obvious stuff to really piss Americans off. England is just as much at war and has been for longer, the cancer has become terminal here way before they have even dented the USA.
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I would never shoot anyone for protesting. I would not allow them to get in my way tho.
Did anyone notice the hussy in the pic had here hair dyed and makeup on and was showing all kinds of flesh? Shouldn't they be stoning her instead of letting her march with the men?
lazs
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bat.... did I hear you say that you were starting to wish that your nanny had not taken away your right to defend yourself and your family with a firearm?
I think I am tearing up. I'm sooo proud of you.
lazs
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I've worked with muslims. I have muslim neighbors, and I don't mean american born converted to islam muslims. They make great neighbors. A lot like mormons except they like to drink coffee and talk about more interesting things. They talk a lot, but then compared to native born americans who doesn't?
The problem isn't the religion, it's the backward society they live in. Their societies have atrophied largely because of petroleum trade. Kinda like the 30 year old rock star who never really had to work for anything.
In modern developed countries, fundementalist wacko hate religion is here, but it never really takes off. A hundred years ago it did, but our societies have evolved a lot since then. North african countries haven't much at all. Again, I believe a big part of the cause of this is oil.
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suave... that is all well and good but if there were a christian religion that treated women like the muslims do.... most of you "tollerant" guy would fall all over yourself making fun of them or worse. jon stewart would be roasting them every night.... the women democrat politicians would be outraged.
It just seems odd to me is all. It is quaint and acceptable when it is by some backward aholes but an outrage if homegrown types do half as much.
lazs
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The way women are treated in those countries is little different then they were treated here 100 years ago. And it's not acceptable anywhere as far as I'm concerned, and you'll notice that it doesn't occur in the american muslim population. So the common denominator isn't the religion.
If it was christians would still be behaving like 16 century barbarians.
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so you are saying that there is nothing about their religion that would make it possible to make fun of them or censure them?
lazs
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All religions are stupid to me.
And the double standard that is applied to the arabs bothers me too. In fact I think it's a huge part of the problem. A cartoon of muhamed and they flip out and murder people, an arab blows up a wedding and the arab world hardly sighs. "Palistinians" deliberately kill civilians, and then hide behind civilians, IDF sends counterfire artillery at the rocket launchers and kills some civilians ahab is all "HALALALALALALA".
So I'll assume that your lumping me into the great part of the population of hazy thinkers was just some more of your trademark peurile insolence.
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I'm not lumping you in with anyone. I am asking you questions to see where you stand. You appear to see it about like I do.. that, compared to christians... they are dangerous nut jobs.
I also agree that all fundamentalist religions are dangerous.... I just feel that the ideas behind the muslim one and the way it is practiced are a magnatude greater in backward thinking and danger to everyone. The most outrageous christian abuses and ignorance were in the distant past... the muslims just seem to be getting out of theirs a lot slower and therefore... a more legitimate target for making fun of and vitriol that many reserve for religious types.
I do notice that you have managed to pidgeonhole me tho.
lazs
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By pidgeonhole I think you mean my coment about you insulting people. I'm not being snide here, I really am not familiar with that term pidgeonhole.
But as far as you having a style that is usually personally insulting to people. Well come on laz, even you have to admit that's pretty accurate. If you're not particularly proud of that reputation I don't think anybody would mind if you tried to change it.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Hispanics didnt whine for the longest time either.
Now Im almost ashamed Im of Spanish (among other things) decent
ROFLMAO @you
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Suave
By pidgeonhole I think you mean my coment about you insulting people. I'm not being snide here, I really am not familiar with that term pidgeonhole.
But as far as you having a style that is usually personally insulting to people. Well come on laz, even you have to admit that's pretty accurate. If you're not particularly proud of that reputation I don't think anybody would mind if you tried to change it.
From what I've seen of your posts there's no lack of personal insults. Pot meet kettle?
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Provide some examples of my ad hominem, me personally insulting individuals that post here.
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muslim americans appreciate the power of the 2nd amendmant to keep them civilized and polite, I guarantee it :D
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Originally posted by Suave
Provide some examples of my ad hominem, me personally insulting individuals that post here.
You're attacks aren't direct but rather snide and I suppose you believe them to be subtle. you laughed at mine and refused to respond to my query.
Here's your latest. Please don't insult us by denying it wasn't a slur on Christianity.
"It will also help you grow more comfortable with the rocky hard earth of reality so you won't turn to booze or drugs or church."
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It wasn't a slur, I think christianity is stupid, just like other religions. A crutch like drugs. A way to cope by evading reality.
I thought your civil war hypothesis was ridiculous.
Not the same as calling you names, or a homo or something. In other words it's not the same as insulting the person instead countering or disagreeing with his point.
I'm not attacking the man who is making the argument.
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Originally posted by Suave
It wasn't a slur, I think christianity is stupid, just like other religions. A crutch like drugs. A way to cope by evading reality.
I thought your civil war hypothesis was ridiculous.
Not the same as calling you names, or a homo or something. In other words it's not the same as insulting the person instead countering or disagreeing with his point.
I'm not attacking the man who is making the argument.
You want to be derisive it's not for me to say you shouldn't. I wouldn't complain about others being insulting though if I were doing the same.
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Me either.
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Originally posted by Shifty
I would like to see more American Muslims , especially Muslim clergy in America denounce Radical Islam. Come to think of it.... I'd like to at least see some of them do it.
Link (http://www.islam-democracy.org/terrorism_statement.asp), Link (http://www.islamfortoday.com/terrorism.htm) , Link (http://www.cair-net.org/crisiscenter/html/cair_ad.html) and Link (http://www.ijtihad.org/memo.htm)
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(http://www.trdparts.com/AH/asdf/cityhall.jpg)
San Francisco City Hall
What's really funny (to me) is now the ANSWER stalinists that organize most of this have gone from suburbanite white kids to black muslims as their green vested "security" group. Geuss you gotta theme your staff to the message... wonder if they'll change back when it's a bush-bashing protest.
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Originally posted by Suave
The problem isn't the religion, it's the backward society they live in.
I agree and not only in relation to Islam but to all religions. The real problem is vast cultural differences. A society can tolerate cultural differences, it even adds flavor. Make those differences too big and you got two seperate societies that will mix like oil and water when put in the same jar.
However, "integration" has become a bad word in many western societies. It is sometimes concieved as the majority forcing its way of life on the minority (which is correct in a way). Instead, multi-culturalism breaks society into groups who are blind to each other (aka "tolerance") till their interests conflict, or one find it difficult to survive.
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Originally posted by bozon
I agree and not only in relation to Islam but to all religions. The real problem is vast cultural differences. A society can tolerate cultural differences, it even adds flavor. Make those differences too big and you got two seperate societies that will mix like oil and water when put in the same jar.
However, "integration" has become a bad word in many western societies. It is sometimes concieved as the majority forcing its way of life on the minority (which is correct in a way). Instead, multi-culturalism breaks society into groups who are blind to each other (aka "tolerance") till their interests conflict, or one find it difficult to survive.
I don't believe religions are intrinsically violently opposed to one another but look at what the youth are being taught in the middle east. Violent hate for jews and the west if we are to believe anything at all reported by the media. Can this have any outcome other than war?
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Biased source? Certainly...however I'm sure they did not fake the signs or video.
Get yer head outta yer bellybutton and look at the evidence in front of your eyes.
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This is tricky ground.
America does not have the problem Europe has because, in general, the muslim community here has been much more successfully integrated into the mainstream of 'American' society than in Europe. I have yet to see a exclusively Pakistani or Bangladeshi (or Indian) neighborhood of the types found in UK cities like Birmingham, Bradford and Glasgow. It has nothing to do with gun ownership (or lack thereof). If someone is willing to strap on a satchel of explosives and blow themselves up, I don't think your Glock is going to be much of a deterent.
The reason for this probably lie in America's background as a nation of immigrants and its long experience of integrating newcomers. However for whatever reason, Muslim communities in Europe are not integrated. They live in their own neighborhoods and are frequently discouraged by community leaders from having contact with 'westerners'. They frequently claim to be victims of racism, but are often themselves racist beyond most European or American's belief. These closed communities are ripe ground for the crazies spreading their doctrine of violience.
However, the difficulty is we live in a free society and unless the crazies start openly inciting violence (and I admit we've been slow to crack down on this in the past), there is very little we can do. People have the right to live, practise religion, exercise free speach and peacfully protest in our society and if we were to take those freedoms away, we lose something to the crazies.
So what do you do? Force integration? Force people to be more 'British' (or German or French). That is not easily done in a free society.
Say Bradford was transplanted into Colorado. How would America deal with the problem?
By the way, for clarification, I'm a British citizen living (legally ;) )in the USA.
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our moslems are smarter, more clever, they plan theyr attacks here
but attack there, because the targets are there? ;)
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suave.. your defenition of pidgenhole is accurate enough.
you claim you do not insult people but.... "your trademark peurile insolence." is the way you described my style.
You then claim that you were merely saying that I have a tendency to insult people.
I would say there was a difference but... will assume that you meant the latter by the former...
If that is the case then I will admit that I have a tendancy to insult people or at least... to have people feel insulted by me.
It is not I that is upset about being pidgenholed tho... it is you.. that is the funny thing about it... you act all upset about it and then.... proceed to do it to others... interesting.
I have never claimed to be upset by being lumped in with others. I have corrected some missconceptions about me but have never gotten as indignant as you have about it.
I have been called a christian and a biggot and a "neocon" and any of a number of things that I am not. This lumping me in with these groups does not upset me... I simply correct the accuser.
lazs
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Originally posted by wooley
Say Bradford was transplanted into Colorado. How would America deal with the problem?
We bombard their children with pop culture. The desire for children to fit in helps it along a bit while they're still in school.
I've seen the difference in person. Summer job working for my dad in HS, the business was owned by a Somali muslim family. The younger ones who received education here early on would routinely get into fights with the older ones who were only here for college. Younger ones hang up a Snap-On Calendar... it's Jihad in the warehouse.
Takes a few generations, but it works. A few flatout crazies will slip through the cracks though, it's inevitable.
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Hi Laz,
Originally posted by lazs2
I also agree that all fundamentalist religions are dangerous...
I see the above sentiment a lot around here, and I know it resonates in an anti-theistic society, but its ultimately no more true than saying that because Fascists and Communists have caused an immense amount of suffering, all political parties are dangerous. Would it be legitimate to lump American Libertarians together with the Khmer Rouge?
Technically speaking a "fundamentalist" religion is one that is characterized by a zealous belief in and adherence to the "fundamental" doctrinal teachings of that system. The opposite of theological fundamentalists are theological liberals. Technically speaking therefore, the Amish are a funadamentalist religious group, and yet no one I'm aware of has ever classified them as dangerous. The same could be said of plenty of Tibetan monks.
Even fundamentalists deserve to be judged on the basis of what they teach, and what the fruit of those teachings is. The problem we have is that we refuse to enter into the process of actually assessing the fundamental teachings of Islam, the early history of its spread under Mohammed, or the fruit it has produced since then. We certainly don't want to examine its truth claims, so it is simpler to pretend it is exactly the same as all other "fundamentalist" religions, which it patently isn't.
According to standard media definitions, I'm a "fundamentalist" and so are Nasrallah, Al Sadr, Osama, and Ahmadinejad. Am I equally dangerous? If so, how?
- SEAGOON
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the biggest problem is trying to pretend all 'people' are the same, theres no difference with any of us. this i the madly politicaly correct first world that we call 'peace'
of course theres a difference, like a tiger to a leopard. geez, were all part of the human race but why should we all pretend that we are one big family, and why whould the 'white first world' of 80 years ago suddenly be the ones who call 'truce' and expect the rest of humanity to smoke some bud and calm down a bit?
and yes lazs, im afraid you might have me on that one. like all things in life it might take longer for those closer to the source to realise. doesnt invalidate any of the non biased reasons why no guns is a good plan, but im swining further to the nanny state mocking, 'i like to blow watermelon up' camp.
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Cod Batfink, are you some kind of Chav?
I went to a Muslim wedding once. Had a special section for infidels and a special infidel refreshment section, namely a bar. More bling and Limo’s than a film premier, tripped out bollywood music and exotic women dancing, incense, henna, no beheadings or precision munitions, it was great.
Cant……we……all…………just………ah **** it.
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dont be foolish, a chav would never have even given thought to the origins of man and possibilities of it outcomes from present circumstances.
nothing i have said is inccorect, yes I 'can just get along', but seems no matter what i behave like, people keep goin and screwing the whole world up again.
any insulting text i have written is intended and aimed at those who live in another country and then decide to attack it in a cowardly way.
i have no predudice to the people of all races i meet and know depending on anything other than if they want to kill me and my mother.
wake up. you're well off in live which forces a beautifull indulgent ignorance about any thing other than 'just getting along'?
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seagoon... perhaps I should have said that all fundamentalist religions are dangerous TO ME... And even then... only if they have power over me.
What I mean is that every one that I have seen has rules that I may or may not want to live by... rules that are only a problem if they have power over me or the government that has power over me.
For instance... if a religion believes that there should be no sex between any man and woman not married....
That is fine and they are free to believe that so far as I am concerened. The problem comes when they have the power of law. When my freedom is in jepordy for something that I feel is none of the states business.
I imagine gays would have some complaints too..
Not all fundamentalists are equally dangerous to me of course... the muslim ones are the heads and shoulders above all the others leaders.
You see this in the moral laws being made in Iran for example.
lazs
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I think you're missing an important point lazs. While some fundamentalist religions do believe as you mentioned that is is wrong for a man and woman to have sex outside of marriage, no religion in America has any physical power over you to prevent you from doing so. The only "danger" is that you might be expelled from that religion. Of course God reserves for himself the right to judge all no matter their religion or lack thereof.
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I have no problem with being judged by god for my morality that hurts no one but myself... my problem is when man does it.
Not all christian religions are benighn but... they are populated by a much better educated and less fundamentalist people as a whole...
There can be some examples of dangerous to me religions... take the mormons... their beliefes are not dangerous as such but.... they can control entire cities or businesses and cause a lot of trouble for those who will not convert.
fortunately... we live in a large and diverse country where we can escape any fundamentalist religion with little effort but... the gist of my arguement is that I feal any religion getting too much power.
Organized religion is just another form of enforced socialism to me. I feel fortunate that very few of em have any real power over me.
lazs
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Originally posted by Suave
The problem isn't the religion, it's the backward society they live in.
Which society are you calling backwards, Europe or America (the subject of the thread)? Or did you mean Arab society is backwards? If the latter I'd agree completely, but even if we agree upon that it does not explain why Muslims in forwards societies are commiting heinous acts. In fact the very recent group in the arrested in the UK last week were all (if not all nearly all) born in Europe in addition to living in Europe. I know folks from Pakistan and Iran who would be very quick to point out that they are not Arabs. Same is true for those in the Sudan and Indonesia or the Phillipines, all countries currently plagued with the violence of Islam. So we cannot even say that terrorism is solely the result of the backwards societies of the Middle East.
So what we have left is the only common denominator...Islam itself. When the Islamic population of any country reaches critical mass, violence and terrorism occur, this cannot be refuted. Anyone who tries to deny that Islam itself is the culprit is one of two things in my opinion:
1.) Blind, to the point where I would question their ability to tell me if it is day or night outside
2.) Acting as rational members of civilized society while aiding and abetting the attempts of the Jihadis to destroy civilization. I do not claim to know if this is an active goal of theirs or they have been duped, I'm sure there are cases of both.
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"Originally posted by Suave
The problem isn't the religion, it's the backward society they live in. "
Welllll..... that is pretty much a chicken/egg thing tho isn't it?
I mean... A civilized society that had a religion that preached "convert or die" could just shrug it off and interpret it as something less lathal... "die" might mean your soul would die for instance and not mean that you cut peoples heads off on TV with a dull knife of wore a tnt belt into the infidels shopping mall.
But...being realistic and pragmatic... we have to deal with both the religion and the society and take them as a combined whole.
both are the problem when put together and neither can be easily seperated from the other.
I asked earlier how suave would do this and the answer I got was no answer at all.
lazs
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Hi Laz,
Originally posted by lazs2
seagoon... perhaps I should have said that all fundamentalist religions are dangerous TO ME... And even then... only if they have power over me.
What I mean is that every one that I have seen has rules that I may or may not want to live by... rules that are only a problem if they have power over me or the government that has power over me.
For instance... if a religion believes that there should be no sex between any man and woman not married....
That is fine and they are free to believe that so far as I am concerened. The problem comes when they have the power of law. When my freedom is in jepordy for something that I feel is none of the states business.
I understand what you are saying, but as you probably realize, almost all fundamentalist religions (with the exception of Islam) are voluntary associations that do not advocate the violent establishment of a worldwide theocratic government under a single ruler.
You still view fundamentalists, however, as a threat, because when their members are elected they will seek to enact laws that reflect their own beliefs, not yours, and will seek to bind your behavior by them.
What you are actually saying is that you fear people whom you don't agree with about social issues having legislative power, and in that all I can say is welcome to the world. We all dislike being told to what to do by people with whom we think are wrong about what they believe. That's why capitalists dislike having socialists in power, and vice versa. But while it is one thing to oppose the worldwide violent imposition of a totalitarian ideology like Islam (or Fascism, or Communism) it is another thing entirely to say that people who don't believe what you believe are all "dangerous" and presumably should be kept out of power even if they are legally elected. For instance, I disagree about almost everything with Barney Frank, however I would never in a million years seek to prevent the voters of Massachusetts from having the ability to elect him as their representative.
I would argue that it makes more sense to simply oppose all forms of totalitarianism than fundamentalism per se, that at least you can get many non-Islamic fundamentalists (including myself) to agree on. We may not like the results of Democracy in action, but I would argue that in order to prevent the unmitigated evils of totalitarian rule, its something that we have to live with. So I'll have to live with the Barney Franks and you'll have to live with the Sam Brownbacks, but neither of us can exist in the world Ahmadinejad is seeking to create.
- SEAGOON
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Originally posted by Seagoon
Hi Laz,
...but as you probably realize, almost all fundamentalist religions (with the exception of Islam) are voluntary associations that do not advocate the violent establishment of a worldwide theocratic government under a single ruler.
We probably shouldn't be too hard on Islam. After all, the catholic church has spent much of the last two thousand years pursuing exactly that aim.
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Trikky I don't know the exact location of where batfink lives.
I've been up to Bradford and Burnley to visit my aunt a couple of times and my squadmate Fury lives up in Burnley. Correct me if i'm wrong but i think thats one of the places where the BNP got a seat on the local council...
Fury mentioned that whites in the area are becoming the MINORITY.
Down south London and where I live Portsmouth I think integration has taken place slightly better than up North. This is the biggest problem in my view if the offspring of Indian/Pakistani's aren't allowed to interact with British people (usually strict parents with religious beliefs) by the time they are teens hanging around in gangs of their own this promotes a sort of tribalism...
I feel for Batfink needing to resort to stuff like that in his own country...
It's wrong.
Bruv
~S~
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Originally posted by wooley
We probably shouldn't be too hard on Islam. After all, the catholic church has spent much of the last two thousand years pursuing exactly that aim.
Yeah we've all seen those catholic churches used as storage depots for IEDs and RPGs, or those cute little bomb-belts with the virgin Mary on them, plus the videos of a bunch of catholics with funny hats beheading tied captives with butter knives.
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seagoon.. I am simply being pragmatic... If a religion gets powerful enough and can elect officials then... I will most certainly expect that the person they elect will wish to make his religions beliefes into law..
Now... that is simple pragmatisism on my part... the simplistic answer is to hope that no fundamentalist religion ever gets enough power to control the government through elected officials... whether it be on a local or grand scale.
Idealy.... I would rather see a very strong bill of rights that was strongly adhered too and then...
It would make no difference who was running the place.
lazs
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Originally posted by Edbert1
Yeah we've all seen those catholic churches used as storage depots for IEDs and RPGs, or those cute little bomb-belts with the virgin Mary on them, plus the videos of a bunch of catholics with funny hats beheading tied captives with butter knives.
Don't let the cute, benevolent image the Church projects today obscure its not too distant past.
Its unfortunate (for the Church) that during their more active periods in pursuit for World Domination, RPG's and Bomb Belts weren't widely available. I'm sure they could have found many useful applications for them.
And I can't think why I've never seen a video of a woman being burned at the stake for being a witch (or practicing a non-catholic religion as I prefer to call it). Or of the fun people used to have at the hands of Spanish Inquisators - you know the fun-time guys who's idea of a good night out was to torture and kill anyone they pretty much liked - just shout 'herecy' and get the thumbscrews out boys.
Anyway - we're off topic.
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Originally posted by wooley
And I can't think why I've never seen a video of a woman being burned at the stake for being a witch (or practicing a non-catholic religion as I prefer to call it). Or of the fun people used to have at the hands of Spanish Inquisators - you know the fun-time guys who's idea of a good night out was to torture and kill anyone they pretty much liked - just shout 'herecy' and get the thumbscrews out boys.
Oh, I get it, you mean the various "Inquisitions" that took place in medieval times. Thus you are basing your fears/anger/beleifs/mistrust on things that happened hundreds of years ago. Kind of like the Jihadis all wrapped up in the events of the 8th century are. Some of us see things that happen within our lifetime as more accurate is all.
But you are right, we've strayed off-topic. The topic is about CURRENT events and Islam.
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Originally posted by Seagoon
According to standard media definitions, I'm a "fundamentalist" and so are Nasrallah, Al Sadr, Osama, and Ahmadinejad. Am I equally dangerous? If so, how?
In your current position and in the society you live in, no. There are laws in place, secular laws, that ensure you do not overstep your boundaries and try to force your religious moral values on to unwilling citizens.
Had these laws not existed, you'd have many more ways of influencing the masses. From judging on your posts here, I doubt you'd make use of many of them - maybe a gentle push here or there.
Some of your fundamentalist brethren may find their character too weak and their desire to do God's work too great - after all, he commands that the word should be spread.
I don't worry about a Christian theocracy here for a couple of reasons - laws in place, the culture in the priesthood, the behaviour of the general population and so forth.
I do worry about situations where someone with absolute beliefs who thinks he is compelled to force his views on others has a lot of authority. No matter if this is a Buddhist, Christian, Muslim, Communist what have you.
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the reason you don't see any videos of the inquisition is because it all stopped hundreds of years before videos were invented.
you may not know this but....medieval times were cruel and barbaric. If you point out christian churches then... you must say that since people did those things then... we will do them today.
In one case that is true... there is no difference between the medieval barbariand and the fundamentalist muslims... they have not changed in any real way.
lazs
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Originally posted by wooley
Don't let the cute, benevolent image the Church projects today obscure its not too distant past.
Its unfortunate (for the Church) that during their more active periods in pursuit for World Domination, RPG's and Bomb Belts weren't widely available. I'm sure they could have found many useful applications for them.
And I can't think why I've never seen a video of a woman being burned at the stake for being a witch (or practicing a non-catholic religion as I prefer to call it). Or of the fun people used to have at the hands of Spanish Inquisators - you know the fun-time guys who's idea of a good night out was to torture and kill anyone they pretty much liked - just shout 'herecy' and get the thumbscrews out boys.
Anyway - we're off topic.
Since we're off topic let's not pretend that the "church" was the first to attempt world domination or curelty. Both of those were around long before christians were being fed to lions for the amusement of the masses.
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Originally posted by lukster
Since we're off topic let's not pretend that the "church" was the first to attempt world domination or curelty. Both of those were around long before christians were being fed to lions for the amusement of the masses.
I never claimed the Church was the first to use such methods. I'm just pointing out that the phenomenon of religious fanatics using violence, terror and intimidation to impose their will on others is not unique to the Islamic faith.
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Originally posted by wooley
I never claimed the Church was the first to use such methods. I'm just pointing out that the phenomenon of religious fanatics using violence, terror and intimidation to impose their will on others is not unique to the Islamic faith.
Depends on what "is" is. :p
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Originally posted by Bruv119
Trikky I don't know the exact location of where batfink lives.
I've been up to Bradford and Burnley to visit my aunt a couple of times and my squadmate Fury lives up in Burnley. Correct me if i'm wrong but i think thats one of the places where the BNP got a seat on the local council...
Fury mentioned that whites in the area are becoming the MINORITY.
Down south London and where I live Portsmouth I think integration has taken place slightly better than up North. This is the biggest problem in my view if the offspring of Indian/Pakistani's aren't allowed to interact with British people (usually strict parents with religious beliefs) by the time they are teens hanging around in gangs of their own this promotes a sort of tribalism...
I feel for Batfink needing to resort to stuff like that in his own country...
It's wrong.
Bruv
~S~
Yeah I agree its wrong and there are problems. What I posted was a bit dismissive toward Batfink which was nasty of me. I just wanted to say not all muslims are tards, but he knows that already.
Thought he’s near death experience might have mellowed him out a little ;)
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Originally posted by tikky
How come it seems that Muslims in America seem to be tamer than the ones residing in Europe.
Ours are too busy enjoying religious freedom and taking care of business. No time left or desire for mischief.
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Originally posted by Trikky
Cod Batfink, are you some kind of Chav?
I went to a Muslim wedding once. Had a special section for infidels and a special infidel refreshment section, namely a bar. More bling and Limo’s than a film premier, tripped out bollywood music and exotic women dancing, incense, henna, no beheadings or precision munitions, it was great.
Cant……we……all…………just………ah **** it.
Similar experience here, good times.