Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Reynolds on August 16, 2006, 04:16:23 AM
-
Okay, please be serious. How do i effectively fly the F4U? Ive never tried it before.
-
i believe f4u is a heavy plane so u want to enter a fight wit some alt an try an keep it fast, on the other hand it is kinda like a 51 an can turn with spits if u know how to work ur throttle an flaps.
P.S u didnt like my highlander/metallica thread?
-
Keep it fast but don't count on its level speed because its not so fast, if you attack a field try to start 7k over the base so you can do vertical maneuvers. the F4U got great verticals, its his big advantage for me.
Be very carefull on your E conservation, and use flap turn as your last ressort, cause if you slow down too much you'll be just a big slow target for spits. The hog can put the gear out at 250mph if I remember well, very usefull if you want to slow down and sneak behind a fast con thats attacking you.
-
I like to fly all planes and recently there was a thread about the F4U's gear coming down <400mph I been trying this out to dump E and pump flaps.
The F4u's are fantastic planes if you work the flaps, throttle and gears.
You can turn it really well at those slower speeds and force many a uber plane to overshoot.
totally agree with nuke on the speed thing the F4U4 is fantastic and will outspeed most planes but the others once slow can be easily caught.
I would suggest going into the training arena and having a good session 1vs1 in the f4u1d trying to turn it as tight as you can.....
All the best
Bruv
~S~
-
First and foremost: know the situation you're going into. If you're in a one-on-one fight the F4U can get slow and generally hang with almost anything in the game when handled properly. She has GREAT flaps and proper management of throttle, gear and flaps can let you cut inside anything (that being said, I can pull this off only some of the time). Try to avoid flat turns if you can and use more of a yo-yo, especially in the later Hogs (1D and 4).
While some of the hotter sticks can hang indefinately against pretty much anything, I generally have to rely on being able to get a shot and end the fight quickly, especially against the better turners (Zekes and Spits. I've noticed that the Spit I, VIII and Seafire seem to be more easily handled). The Hog has a GREAT instantaneous turn, so flown right gives you the tools to do just that, but that takes practice.
If it's a large, multi-con engagement you want to try and stay fast and high. The acceleration of the 1-series Hogs is only average at best (ranging from poor in the -1 to average in the 1D) so letting yourself get low and slow makes the Hog more vulnerable than most in a furball. Things are better for the -4, which is near the top end of the MA dragsters.
What I've been doing lately, and finding success at, is come into a fight between 10-15k. That will generally put you above the rest of the furball. After that it's knowing where everybody is and target selection. I try to find someone with his back turned, and I've been clearing a LOT of 6's lately (double bonus: it gives you a target with tunnel-vision, and helps keep another ally fighting). Generally I'll cut back throttle but won't drop gear unless I'm coming in from significant alt (Corsair always seems to accelerate faster when you DON'T want her too :p ). If you hear your plane start to creak, you know you're going fast enough, and those gear CAN be dropped at speeds nearing 450mph if you want to limit your dive speed slightly. My FAVORITE approach angle is in the low-6 blind spot, but that's hard to get in to sometimes.
After your initial pass, if you want to slow down and maneuver try and stay between 250-300mph. That's the Hog's "butter zone" and will generally have you faster than most of the planes in a large turnfight. Keep the fight more open and use the vertical for reversals rather than trying to follow a break turn (this takes practice because following the break is so instinctive, and I still struggle with it).
Set your guns in relatively close for all Hogs. I have mine at 300 yards. While concentrated hitting power is less of an issue in the 1C because of the Hizookas, it's a lot easier to land hits with a closer point of convergence due to the wide spread of the guns. Take whatever shot you can, and don't be afraid to miss because the Hog's got plenty in the clip to spare and you're more likely to run out of gas than ammo. Some people will argue tracers off, some will argue on. I keep mine on and do well enough. Plus, if you fire and miss tracers will sometimes get an enemy to do something stupid that ensures your second shot DOESN'T (fired a shot over an La-7 opening on me from 800+ yards out once, and forced him to break turn to where I was able to close the distance and bag him, where if he had just kept running level he'd have escaped).
Also, know your enemy. The most dangerous opponents I find are the Spit XVI, Ki-84, (pretty much everything the Hog does well the 84 does too, while also being faster and a better turner. Only the -4 has a clear advantage over the Frank, as she can outrun and outclimb the 84 pretty much at will) and Hurri IIc (which is just plain overpowered to begin with). N1K2s and La-7s are pretty even matches (although I have more trouble being picked by ElGays while I'm dealing with other cons than losing to one in a straight 1v1 fight).
Above all practice. Handled right the early-model Hogs are easily among the best all-around fighters in the game, and the -4 is probably the best prop bird PERIOD.
-
Thanks all of you!
-
lol...
mr. "i hate america planes"....
:D
-
I flew the F4U-1 for a tour.
Make jousting attacks from a higher altitude against better planes. Keep your speed high enough so that after your shot, you can get out of gun range quickly. Don't turn more than 45 degrees once you have the bandit in your gun sights. You will bleed too much speed.
The F4U has poor climb and poor acceleration. In the realm of AH, it should be used as an energy-fighter. It can turn well until your airspeed drops below 150. Then you are a sitting duck, it takes a very long time to regain speed or altitude.
There are two things you can do if a bandit is on your tail at close range. (1) Decelerate very quickly and hope he overshoots. This works alot, but your plane will be pitching and stalling so you need to practice your gunnery and stall recovery techniques. A hard barrel roll with full flaps, gear down, and throttle at 25% works the best.
(2) Confuse the other pilot by rolling very quickly and making out-of-plane maneuvers. If you are turning, and a bandit is on your six, roll 90 degrees and pull back on the stick. When he begins to follow you, roll another 90 (or even 180) and pull again. These maneuvers take you from the horizontal to vertical plane.
-
The F4u-1d is lethal... keep in mind you have two huge speed brakes called landing gear! You can lower them at almost any speed. That and some quick flaps can allow you to turn inside almost anyone, but the catch is, you'd best kill them, because if they get away, you're in a world of hurt because the acceleration blows arse...
I like it, but have been flying the hell kitty since last update, which is far better than the Hog.
-
i spent 90% of my time in f4u in june, like everyone has been sayin, stay fast, hi yoyos are ur friend and will let u beat down on ur lower e con. Acell is horrible for a plane wit 2000, dont rely on drag racing away from a con unless u already have 350 mph on the tach. Ur rear view sucks so u have to fly wit ur eyes in the back of ur head, i sneak up on alot of sleep f4us this way. F4u1 feels liter and turns better and once up to speed is faster then f4u1d, but f4u1d has a better climb better accel and a better cockpit view. hi speed turns are ur friends, i have had times when a trailin spit 16 would chase me at about 8k, i would nose down get the speed up to around 400, and hard right or left, u cant follow u, he will break off or break his plane. If u flew somethin like p47,p51 u shouldnt have a prob.
Im wit bodhi on this, i have spent all my time in hellcat this tour and feel that it is alot better.
-
F4U vs Hellcat is largely a matter of personal preference. As Widewing's tests have pointed out, the two aircraft are very close in terms of speed, acceleration, climb and maneuverability. The Cat's only real clear advantage is in stall behavior.
-
The Corsair is a study in contrasts. (I flew it exclusively for two tours, then the F6 exclusively for one tour plus this one. They are similar in many ways.)
The Corsair has a fairly good top speed, but ironically, has average to poor acceleration. It is only an average climber, but confusingly, has a FANTASTIC zoom-climb. It doesn't have an instantaneous turn rate of a spit or zeke, but has an amazingly tight turn radius (when used with flaps and gear - more on that in a moment.) Though very heavy, it is very stable when slow and can almost hang on the prop going vertical, and its HUGE rudder can swivel the guns around as necessary.
In a furball, as has been mentioned, you need to keep it fast. The B&Z tactics are a good idea here, but the beauty of the zoom climb means you can almost do it indefinately. When the furball has been whittled down to just a few enemies, or you have chased one enemy out of the furball, you can safely get low and slow, PROVIDED YOU ARE AWARE OF YOUR SIX AT ALL TIMES, because due to poor acceleration, you won't be able to get fast quickly enough to get away from anything.
On the positive, getting slow is not a bad thing when you are one on one. With lots of flaps usage, plus by dropping the gear for a second or two at the appropriate times, you can almost outturn anything. Yes, the early spits can turn slightly better, but they aren't as stable AND can't go over the top in those.
Generally, you can outturn what you can't outrun, and outrun (with enough head start) what you can't outturn. And if you can't outrun something that's slowly closing in, you can roll to the side and pull hard, drop the gear for two seconds (if you roll and pull, your pursuer can't see you deploy your gear) to slow down enough to get all those flaps down, and then kill the hell out of that guy. Unfortunately, if he has a buddy, now you're low and slow and a much easier target. That can be workable too, but if there's much more than that and you are all alone, things get tough.
Still, the Corsair is one of those planes that you can be a lone-wolf in and survive, which is something that can't be said for everything.
Also, its ability to absorb damage and get you home is nothing short of amazing. A shot-out engine can usually get you from an enemy field to home if you break away immediately and start climbing. You can EASILY get home with a wing shot off (in the corsair, the outer wing panel just past the bent part of the wing is what gets shot off when you lose a wing) by dropping just one notch of flaps on final approach. And being able to land at any local Carrier Group can be handy too.
And finally, you can carry a lot of bombs to a target, if necessary. And you can get a 4-cannon version, if that floats your boat.
And though you didn't ask, the F6 is very similar. I fly it about the same way, but with the following differences: top speed is slightly slower, turn radius and stability is slightly better, and you can't use the landing gear trick to get slow because the F6 never had airbrakes tied to its landing gear like the Corsair. It seems slightly more stable when hanging on the prop.
I will conceed that the rear view of these aircraft can leave something to be desired. But I use a TrackIR, and with that, the rear views are actually quite good. With the keypad/coolie hat, I could never stand the F6's views.
Good luck!
-Llama
-
the cannon corsair isnt the best dog fighter, it feels noticeable heavyer, i use it only for hit gvs, the d feels better in the dogfight. f4u should alot faster then f6f but since there so close i wouldnt call it an advantage(theres another thread for that discussion). U can get in behind spit and stick wit him useing ur flaps long enuff to kill him, but if u miss the shot u r screwed.
Aint nothin else u can noe that anyone esle hasnt posted so just take ur time and learn it. ABove all else just remember stay fast.
-
Chicks dig gullwings.
HONK!
Gooss
-
I love the F4u, it was my ride of choice for a long time, and was the plane responsible for prying my butt out of the F6F cockpit. The most important thing Ive found is that the F4u isnt 'A' plane its several planes, depending on the model.
The F4U-1 is a little more twichy, but it turns nice
The F4U-C has the guns we all love to hate
The F4U-D is the venerable old timer of the game, and merges respectable speed and overall preformance with the Mustang very well.
The F4U-4 is nothing short of a BEAST if you are a dedicated, and disiplined pilot. Its not the turner the F4u-1 is, but its got power to spare.
-
Warning – the following may be seen as idiotic.
If there’s one thing I adore about the Corsairs, it’s that flying them gives you many options. You can boom and zoom, energy fight, or turn around on a dime. You can fight just about any enemy you meet, on his terms, and give him a run for his money.
The Corsair truly puts the “stall” in stall fighting. Here is a bird that, properly trimmed and with flaps deployed, can enter a vertical climb at speeds approaching 100 mph, zoom up to darn near 0mph, and then tailslide with its superb rudder to swing its long, heavy nose right down where it needs to be to acquire an angle on the bad guy. You can also put her in a gentle spin and catch her when she is where you need her to be.
In other words, this plane’s limits can be exceeded and exploited for gain.
When merging, you have many options. You can take a more relaxed merge and energy fight your opponent, or you can do a number of things to bleed your speed before and during the merge to get an angle on them pronto. You can bleed a bit of speed on the approach with rudder and/or you can immediately drop your gear and/or cut your throttle through the first merge.
You will want to be careful when merging with cannon armed planes, as very often after the first merge you will again wind up nose to nose. However, assuming you are not destroyed here (takes some practice to position yourself correctly so you aren’t), you can often high yoyo back toward your opponent, who is likely starting to flounder after his own hard merge. Remember, properly handled your Hog can get into the vertical from very low speeds.
It is important to note that the Corsair has great flaps. If you are committed to a knife fight, be sure to use them. If I know that my enemy is going to try and stall fight me I start dropping them as soon as I can after that first merge, and keep on going as I go through the second. The plane does great on full flaps. It turns on a dime and can seemingly float around effortlessly. The only downside is that it makes aiming a pain. Against some MA opponents who aren’t doing much, I’ll often raise a few notches to ease my aim.
As others have mentioned, the Corsairs can also deploy their gear at incredibly high speeds without any fear of snapping it off. I once asked BluKitty when I should be deploying that gear, and got the best answer I’ve ever heard: “when you need to slow down.” A few choice times for this are when your bandit is diving away from you, doing the “FW Jingle” in an attempt to get you to overshoot, or when you are trying to get someone to overshoot. A really nice thing about the hogs is that although most models don’t have the greatest level acceleration, they all can build speed very well in a dive, and then can bleed speed nearly at will with a hard break turn with gear deployed as Llama stated. This works after a shallow dive while you’re on the deck with a hard flat or slightly nose-low break turn, or when you are in a power dive with a hard climbing break turn. Both can be converted into a rolling scissors, where you will usually have a great advantage over your enemy.
This ability to rapidly accelerate (in a dive), and then equally rapidly decelerate (with gear), all the while maintaining great control throughout the entire speed range from very fast to incredibly slow, is something that most planes in the game simply do not have.
In regards to the F4U4, it is indeed the king of the plane set. It can do everything described above, with even more power. You can actually take that plane and have a fight ascend – all while at incredibly low speeds (yet in complete control). It’s a real monster.
-
I still think pieces break off the Corsair way too easily. Even P-47 pilots admitted the F4U was by far the most rugged single-engined fighter built by the US, and yet here I've lost wings and stabs to hits in a Hog that I've taken and shrugged off entirely in an FM2. :p
-
YES, it is tooooo weak, I remember one fight i had in a fm2(that thing is a dam sleeper) first and la7 dove an raked across my back, no prob couple rolls and turns he is mine, and a p47 came up right after i came up to barrel roll and he skined my wing bad, all i had to do was throw him into a turn fight, 2 turns mine, i run off and landed, i had no paint and my left wing and holes all over my body and tail. but f4u gets a small punch and u broke the wing or tail off. I think the f4u p47 aswell as the f6f need to be more tougher.
-
So far I've already been told I fly a dweeby, whirly-bird, gravity-defying, uber-flapped, cheap-gear-dropping UFO. I think if we ask for this bird to be any more bad then it alread is... Well... Nah :D
-
Originally posted by Vudak
So far I've already been told I fly a dweeby, whirly-bird, gravity-defying, uber-flapped, cheap-gear-dropping UFO. I think if we ask for this bird to be any more bad then it alread is... Well... Nah :D
Just as long as you remember which uber-flapping, gravity-defying, mind-turning UFO pawned your Hog :D.
>>S<<
-
here's a question for the Hog drivers..... How do keep from the plane from doing ground circles upon landing? Is there a way to lock the back wheel?
-
Yes stickpig. Pull back on your Joystick about 1/4 to 1/2.
To avoid pulling the nose high (and wheels off the ground again) right after flare i raise flaps as fast as possible after flare. That raises your stall speed and you can pull back on stick without "taking off" again.
-
2 tips to avoid trashing a landing in a corsair:
Roll long. Don't be in a hurry to stop. Check the ball slip indicator, and keep it centered.
reduce RPM (less torque, less flip?) when landing.
-
Differential braking is a BIG help to avoid a ground loop. Just apply opposite wheel breaks (generally, hit the right brake on touchdown until the aircraft is under control, as the Corsair has a natural tendency to pull to the left).
Also, keep your landing speed down. I try to get the plane on the ground at speeds of 150mph or less.
-
LOL I can't imagine landing any faster!!
I'd say get full flaps out and shoot for 100mph or less
-
Problem is too slow the bird won't flare and you smash your engine into the pavement.
-
Originally posted by Schatzi
Just as long as you remember which uber-flapping, gravity-defying, mind-turning UFO pawned your Hog :D.
>>S<<
Ladies and gentlemen, I do believe I've just been "zinged" :D
I'm finding you this weekend :furious :)
-
Re: ground loops upon landing...
You could always be a dweeb and belly-land it with the gear up. There's no chance of getting sideways during such a manouver. ;-)
Landing Hogs has proven difficult for me, and even now is something that I never ever take for granted. I start by with trim while on final approach: alierons about 1/3 of the way between center and full right, and rudder dead center. Then I land as normal, but with the engine just above idle. As soon as the wheels touch down, the flaps go all the way up. Then I let the plane roll down the runway, and I gently release the controls until the plane is more or less rolling straight down the runway with neutral control inputs. ONLY THEN do I apply the brakes and chop the throttle, using GENTLE rudder and stick inputs to keep it centered. You can't let it get away from you - stay focused.
I tell you, landing the Hog on the CV is a million times easier than on the ground. ;-)
-Llama
-
Originally posted by llama
I tell you, landing the Hog on the CV is a million times easier than on the ground. ;-)
-Llama
Because the CV is doing around 45 mph and you can land at a much higher airspeed (as opposed to "speed above CV").
-
Originally posted by Vudak
I'm finding you this weekend :furious :)
Oooohhhhhh..... is that a threat or a promise? :t
:)
-
Originally posted by Furball
lol...
mr. "i hate america planes"....
:D
lol... "CORSAIRS SUCK!!! I ONLY FLY THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONLY CARRIER PLANE WITH ROCKETS!!! ARGH!!! :furious"... just kidding. But, not to insult all of you who love the corsair. but its just not my kind of plane. I just fly it for carrier ops.
-
Originally posted by Reynolds
lol... "CORSAIRS SUCK!!! I ONLY FLY THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONLY CARRIER PLANE WITH ROCKETS!!! ARGH!!! :furious"... just kidding. But, not to insult all of you who love the corsair. but its just not my kind of plane. I just fly it for carrier ops.
If you're just flying it for airstrikes from carriers, why did you need all this information :)
1. Load rockets
2. Point nose at ground
3. Click button
4. Rocket go "boom!"
-
Originally posted by Schatzi
Oooohhhhhh..... is that a threat or a promise? :t
:)
:D
-
Originally posted by Reynolds
lol... "CORSAIRS SUCK!!! I ONLY FLY THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONLY CARRIER PLANE WITH ROCKETS!!! ARGH!!! :furious"... just kidding. But, not to insult all of you who love the corsair. but its just not my kind of plane. I just fly it for carrier ops.
Strange teh uber FM2 has them also.
But don't try it cuz it sucks. :noid :D
Bronk
-
Originally posted by Vudak
If you're just flying it for airstrikes from carriers, why did you need all this information :)
1. Load rockets
2. Point nose at ground
3. Click button
4. Rocket go "boom!"
Because even when i know alot about the aircraft, i still suck. Imagine if i just flew the F4U!!! All the Bish and Rooks would get an EASY kill!
-
I seriously question the limits the gear can handle, as well as the ability for the corsair's nose to stay level even with the gear out.
I disagree with the modeling, except for a low speed, level bomb run with napalm in Korea you simply don't see it. I can't imagine that much drag would give you an even halfway decent gun platform.
-
Have a look at this.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1056703518162002454&q=f4u&hl=en
They drop gear in this film and it looks completely controllable.
It's not like the gear insta pops, it lowers and is compensated for.
Bronk
-
According the Corsair pilots manual, the landing gear could be used as dive-breaks up to 400mph.
-
Actually the dive limit restriction on the break was lifted in the updated F4U-1D POH.
You could have it deployed at any speed and they could even be deployed up to 400MPH altough the manual says they may not fully lock in position.
-
I agree. Although the gear might stay on, wouldnt it pull the nose down?!?
-
Originally posted by Reynolds
I agree. Although the gear might stay on, wouldnt it pull the nose down?!?
Did you even look at the link i provided? It's a f4u training film.
Near the end they drop gear at alt and at cruise speed.
Bronk
-
Originally posted by Bronk
Did you even look at the link i provided? It's a f4u training film.
Near the end they drop gear at alt and at cruise speed.
Bronk
And in a steep dive.
-
Originally posted by Bronk
Did you even look at the link i provided? It's a f4u training film.
Near the end they drop gear at alt and at cruise speed.
Bronk
I watched it, im just in disbeleif at the engineering. I must say, although I dont exactly have a good relationship with the Corsair, that is a great example of dream engineering!
-
Originally posted by stickpig
here's a question for the Hog drivers..... How do keep from the plane from doing ground circles upon landing? Is there a way to lock the back wheel?
Your able to drop the gear doing like 400mph, chop throttle, drop gear and start putting down your flaps. I just float in and land right at the end of the runway. Then you just roll around and re-arm and roll again. :aok
On flying it, you want to know how to fly the Hog get ahold of AKDogg, one of my squadies. He flys that thing hard and rips things apart landing multiple kills all the time.
Using the flaps and the throttle are a major way of flying the Hog good. Learning to use them together takes time but you can get into a good float with that thing and just hang up there in the sky.
-
Heres how to not groundloop- Backpressure on the stick as soon as you land. Locks the tailwheel.
-
Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Heres how to not groundloop- Backpressure on the stick as soon as you land. Locks the tailwheel.
AquaShrimp is right here. It is the best way to correct when you feel the plane slipping out of control. Some people also use the right or left wheel breaks depending on the direction of the slide, but pulling back hard on the stick is the easiest. You can save almost any landing this way. I have been fairly far sideways before remembering to pull back, and was still able to save the plane. It almost instantly stops the sliding, and you can still control the plane's direction slightly, but once you slow down, controlling is much easier with the stick neutral than pulled back.
-
The key to not ground-looping the Corsair is all about a controlled approach, and touch-down attitude.
I fly final with full flaps, max RPM (in case you need to wave off and go around), and 25" of manifold. This should set you up for an easily maintainable approach speed of <120mph. As you cross the end of the runway, pitch for around 100 mph, flare about 20 feet above the runway. Maintain the pitch attitude that gave you 100 mph at 25" manifold, and chop the throttle. If you maintain that nose high attitude, you will make a 3-point landing and can avoid the ground loop. If you bounce, relax pressure on the stick, let it float and then pitch back again. If you land a 3-pointer, it is almost impossible to ground loop. I'll be more than happy to show anyone how to land the Hog--at a field or CV. Technique is the same on both. Just let me know and we'll set up some time in the TA...
P.S. I find that a lot of nose down trim helps me maintain the proper attitude at the flare. Counter-intuitive I know, but it may be just a joystick feel issue.
-
Generally I start trimming the nose down immediately upon deploying flaps. They work SO well that even at relatively low airspeeds, each notch of flaps tends to make the Corsair's nose pop straight up, which can make it difficult to shed altitude.
-
Full flaps, three point it, lock tail wheel and chill.......
My regards,
Widewing