Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: takeda on May 23, 2001, 05:52:00 AM
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(http://support.euronet.nl/~gillisdn/perverts/americageography.gif)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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LOL (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
If you ever met them on their "Europe in 5 days Tour", you know it is true. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Yep
that's the map from my High School geography class..
Please show us ignorant Americans your map of the world, you older and wiser Europeans (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Eagler
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Please show us ignorant Americans your map of the world, you older and wiser Europeans (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Yeah.. especially that one where the church divided up the world giving certain regions to England, Spain and France.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
Yeah.. especially that one where the church divided up the world giving certain regions to England, Spain and France.
AKDejaVu
Isn't this map rather old djv ?
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lol takeda i was gonna post this map awhile back, but felt that seeing the ultra american right rant on and not be able to take a joke again would just be too much...
lol "here be dragons"
-your friendly and backward neighbour,
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I think its funny, and I too agree that most Americans think the center of the world revolve around them...but, given our Gov't and the prosperity we've enjoyed, its understandable. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
Yeah.. especially that one where the church divided up the world giving certain regions to England, Spain and France.
AKDejaVu
So, European Muslim countries don't have a "religion"? And Orthodox Church definetly isn't Christian according to US history books? And Armenia isn't Christian too?
BTW, who was the brilliant guy who told me that Orthodox Church was guilty for the Crusades?
I wonder how many people here will be able to draw a border between Europe and Asia on the map without telling that Soviet geographic maps are nothing but roadkill?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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With respect,
Pavel Pavlov,
Commissar 25th IAP WB VVS
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Hehe posted this map a while ago in another thread (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Well, they say the supremacy of a country/culture only lasts a finite period of time... happened before with France, Spain, England, Rome...
My bet is that the next ruler of the civilized world will be Iceland, and their evil underground army of seals and penguins.
You'll see... ahh yes... you'll all see...
Daniel, aka Cyrano
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Yet another uppity outsider. I say it's time to lay waste to Spain over in that Yurop place. We'll have to take our Rascal scooters and Hummers if we're going to get anywhere without escalators tho'...and no TV?!? Bunch of savages there, I'd bet!
SOB
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
Yeah.. especially that one where the church divided up the world giving certain regions to England, Spain and France.
AKDejaVu
That was the treaty of Tordesillas, and divided the world in zones of influence between Portugal and Spain for CHRISTIANIZING work,not england and france you incult (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
In effect it resulted in a pact wich was intended to divide all the new found lands between spain and Portugal. of course, england and france and (later) Netherlands had a couple of things to say in this regard (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
In any case was other time. and BTW the part of "here be dragons, no civilisation, people eat each other here" was,at that time,accurate in the 90% of the cases (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Let's go down the list:
Yeah, you really show yourself to be a moron when you counter a charge of ignorance by forcefully demonstrating it.
Second, Boroda, I don't know from which orifice you pulled the declaration that "US history books don't count the Orthodox or Armenian churches as Christian". Just because some Amurricans are ignorant doesn't mean they aren't taught certain things. Many Americans also insist that Catholics are not Christian.
In any case, Boroda, we have strong Orthodox and Armenian communities in this country. Of course, they probably don't count since here we have strong Muslim groups as well. So we'll just call them Greek- and Russian-rite Catholics. How's that?
Or perhaps the presence of these communities eluded you since we don't require our religion to be on our identification cards. Or maybe it was the fact that in the United States (contrary to what your propaganda may say) church leaders don't play a major role in mainstream politics as well. So if the requirement for a religious community is a couple of fat bishops exploiting the political system for private gain, then no, we don't have that.
YEs, that's what you meant, isn't it? Religion is a state thing. Anyone holding a different religious belief is therefore not a member of the nation, the ethnos. For that reason they should be at best tolerated as "guests". Each country, of course, is in its rights to terminate this guest status at any time. The uncreated light will purify as well as enlighten. Palamas was a visionary, after all.
Beliefs like that are why God gave the United States free-fall bombs and the delivery system to put them in the general area of those we suspect might hold ideas similar to them. And we don't need to know what the world looks like, as long as our GPS puts us near enough to the target that we don't hit our own people.
As for the Crusades, personally I think the Fourth Crusade was the greatest achievement of Western Europe. It's a pity it was run by a bunch of thugs, though. If the pope had any control over it whatsoever, we'd still have one universal Christian church seated in Rome.
[This message has been edited by Dinger (edited 05-23-2001).]
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Straffo... how old/new does it have to be? I just see too much irony in the idea of this map. The ignorance that us Americans display is merely a drop in a very big bucket filled with past generations from around the world... with Europe contributing more than its fair share.
And Baroda... what the hell are you talking about? How you interpreted that statement as some kind of world religious view on behalf of America is totally beyond me.
AKDejaVu
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..oh.. and Australia is labeled wrong. It should simply say "convicts".
AKDejaVu
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I say we nuke Europe, and turn it into a shopping mall once it stops glowing!
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Dinger, I just answer in the same manner as some of my opponents here on this board (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Looks like I have to think each time I try to show sarcasm. Frankly speaking I thought that 3 smiles in the end will be enough.
As for the Fourth Crusade - I don't agree with your point of view. Plundering Constantinopolis was a traditional Russian sport before Vladimir the Bright Sun, and if the 1204 slaughter was a "greatest achievement" of the Western Europe - than Russians definetly didn't beat it.
BTW, Crusaders perfomed a nice genocide against Orthodox and Pagan Slavs 35 years later. In fact Slavs were lucky that St. Alexander of Neva allied with Mongols and kicked their "civilised" butts.
BTW, the role of Orthodox Church in modern Russia is IMHO overestimated. Bishops have their own quiet business selling tax-free tobacco and wine, but they do not interfere in big politics. In Russian Empire the religion was a state thing, and an only reason for discrimination.
Difference between Orthodox and Catholic religions is too big. The "break-up" happened in 1054, long before Protestantism and other minor trends sepatated from Western Christians.
BTW, Nikei counsil was not the first conflict in Christian church. Remember Nestorians (probably the most powerful religion in Great Steppes in First Millenium and the beginning of the Second), then Armenians etc.
About Ethnogenesis theory, "guests", and other ethnic relations - please, find any works by Lev Gumilev, Soviet historian, son of Nikolay Gumilev. The most important (and easy to read) works are "Ethnogenesis and the Biosphere of Earth" (the main fundamental work), "Ancient Russia and the Great Steppe" (the history of Tartar invasion, or, according to Gumilev - a Russian-Tartar alliance) and "Searching for an Imaginary Kingdom" (a study about Nestorians). If you are not afraid of serious historical works - you'll really enjoy it.
Edit: too many "BTW"s (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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With respect,
Pavel Pavlov,
Commissar 25th IAP WB VVS
[This message has been edited by Boroda (edited 05-23-2001).]
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Boroda, I knew what you were doing; I was actually hoping you'd recognize my response. I guess I wasn't extreme enough. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
The Fourth Crusade: It's a common belief that Pope Innocent III orchestrated the sack of Constantinople. That's just not true, period. The Crusade got deviated to Constantinople for a variety of reasons, which I'd be happy to go into if you'd care to hear it. The pope repeatedly warned the Crusaders not to go to Constantinople. In the end, when he was presented with the fait accompli of the fourth crusade and the union of the churches, he did accept it.
Sure, the division between the Catholic and Orthodox churches occurred in 1054, and was largely concerned with fights over the interpolation of the word filioque in the Niceo-Constantinapolitan creed. We can talk about the procession of the Holy Spirit, whether its heretical to use unleavened bread in the Eucharist, and the rest of the nonsense. But don't forget the attempts at church union at the Councils of Lyon and Florence.
Ah, yes, Alexander Nevsky and the Teutonic Knights. A fine Eisenstein movie, btw.
The notion of Crusade was born late and slapped on to all kinds of things. My personal favorite is the Children's Crusade, which is probably more myth than truth, but makes a damn fine story.
Yes, you shouldn't forget the Arian Christians, the Copts and the Maronites either.
The Catholic/Orthodox slam is that while, theologically the Catholic church developed a notion of being the universal Christian church (and thus offensive to anybody in the East, who considered themselves both Christian and "Not those guys"), and tried to integrate the other groups (such as the Armenians, MAronites, Nestorians, Jacobites and Greeks) into the one, universal church (not gonna work guys), the theological response of their adversaries was one of defining things along ethnic lines.
Politically, of course, things were different. But theologically, it worked this way (note: I'm looking specifically at the Greek Church): Here comes a bunch of well meaning but ignorant Dominicans and Franciscans to the East, to try to make the Christian population realize they're part of one universal, pan-cultural church, just with different rites. Of course, there are a few small things they have to agree with, such as the nature of the Trinity (!).
There are two reactions:
A. You guys are full of crap. There's no way you can prove those arguments the way you do. Aristotelian logic cannot be used in matters of faith; here's what we honestly believe.
B. Not only are those guys full of crap, so is A. A. shouldn't use logic in discussing faith.
A. B. is a moron, plus what some of his buddies are saying is, frankly, heretical.
B. A. is an amazinhunk, plus he's a foreigner. Remember the Fourth Crusade? Do you want those foreign bastards running your religion?
B. wins, and ethnicity becomes a mainstream current in (Greek) Orthodox theology. A. says, "Screw this" becomes a Catholic and lives out a comfortable life without renouncing his "Greek Heresies".
So the palamite/hesychastic theological foundation for the church wins out, and the place of ethnicity in orthodoxy is reinforced.
Meanwhile, in the West, there's the reformation, and the council of trent. Then the RCC becomes really nutty too.
In all fairness, there are other trends in modern orthodox theology, some of which are coming to the surface now. But tradition is hard to break, and even today, you can't publish balanced treatments of dude A. in certain parts of the world without people thinking you're slamming their church. However great a thinker and mystic Palamas was, his arguments in the fight with Barlaam, a fight that shaped the modern Orthodox religion, need to be inspired by God to be considered superior to his adversary.
Anyawy, I'm sure there are strong biological drives against people of differnet ethnicities; it's an ugly part of human behaviour, and one that manifests itself continuously throughout human history.
Finally, I recognize that, for a host of cultural and political reasons, the Russian Orthodox Church is not as powerful or pervasive in Russia as the Greek Orthodox church is down South.
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Originally posted by tofri:
LOL (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
If you ever met them on their "Europe in 5 days Tour", you know it is true. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
ain't that the truth! sometimes i wonder if those vacationing americans are really americans at all! or maybe just imposters posing as american, sent by the canadians abroad in shorts and black kneesocks to make us look bad.
"i've been trying to get out of this garage all day but every corner has a silly little sign that says ausfahrt! - you people should label things!"
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The ignorance that us Americans display is merely a drop in a very big bucket filled with past generations from around the world... with Europe contributing more than its fair share
I don't think it's particularly fair to compare modern day America with medieval Europe, do you?
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pretty colors (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Neat. Kind of reminds me of a BattleTech map.
I say we change from "The United States of American" to "The House of Steiner."
Mk
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hah cyrano!!! no penguins anywhere near iceland.
-yet another useless post for me!
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I never knew the Queen was a Disney employee.
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I don't think it's particularly fair to compare modern day America with medieval Europe, do you?
Ah.. so now this thread is about being fair? Here I thought it was about stereotyping based on observing tourists, television and the media.
AKDejaVu
[This message has been edited by AKDejaVu (edited 05-23-2001).]
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I got me own li'l place (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://stsantas.tripod.com/stsanta.jpg)