Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: EagleDNY on August 20, 2006, 01:35:24 PM

Title: Me-163 with R4Ms??
Post by: EagleDNY on August 20, 2006, 01:35:24 PM
Hey folks,
I was looking over at:

Me-163 Images (http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/me163.html)

and noticed that this picture appears to show a Me-163 with underwing rocket racks installed - they look similiar to the R4Ms you see on the Me-262A-2s...

(http://show.imagehosting.us/show/1548741/0/nouser_1548/T1_-1_1548741.jpg) (http://www.imagehosting.us/index.php?action=show&ident=1548741)

I hadn't seen this configuration before, nor had I heard it mentioned anywhere.    Was this a flight test of some kind, or did these see action?

EagleDNY
:confused:
Title: Me-163 with R4Ms??
Post by: Furball on August 20, 2006, 01:42:10 PM
it is a Me-163A, dont think they saw operational use so may have just been a mock up armament.
Title: Me-163 with R4Ms??
Post by: Reynolds on August 20, 2006, 07:47:35 PM
I have that picture, never noticed the rails though. And teh 262 had rockets?!? So why dont WE have em in game?
Title: Me-163 with R4Ms??
Post by: Debonair on August 20, 2006, 09:01:01 PM
i dont think that is a Me-163, looks more like the earlier version of that plane, the Lippisch or DFS (i forget teh number)
Title: Me-163 with R4Ms??
Post by: Reynolds on August 20, 2006, 10:02:31 PM
No. Thats a 163.
Title: Me-163 with R4Ms??
Post by: Debonair on August 20, 2006, 11:00:39 PM
i:cry
should have:cry
read:cry
teh 2nd:cry
post in:cry
teh this:cry
thread:cry
before i posted:cry
something:cry

a(http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW3/me163-016.jpg)b
Title: Me-163 with R4Ms??
Post by: captkaos on August 25, 2006, 04:40:09 PM
Yes, the 262 had rockets, 24 of them for enemy bombers.  Wish we had those rockets.
Title: Me-163 with R4Ms??
Post by: captkaos on August 25, 2006, 06:24:04 PM
More info on the rockets for the ME 262

The 55mm R4M Orkan (Tornado) folding fin missile was a formidable weapon fitted to Me 262s late in the war. Twenty-Four R4Ms were mounted on special wooden racks mounted under the wings. Each rack held twelve missiles which were about 2 ft. 8 ins. long and weighed 8.8 lbs. When fired, the missile traveled up to 1,700 ft/sec and packed a 1.1 lb. impact fused warhead. The warhead was typically white with the rest of the body and fins being a gray or dark metallic color.

The R4Ms were usually fired in four salvos of six missiles each at intervals of 0.07 seconds from a range of 600 meters. The R4M was unguided and the pilot simply used the usual Revi gunsite for aiming. When launched, the spring loaded fins would unfolded rearward. This enabled the R4M to be extremely compact until fired when the fins unfolded to provide stabilization. Seven of the fins were kept folded in place with a spring steel wire. The eighth fin then folded to hold the wire in place. When loaded from back to front in the launcher, the eighth (top) fin was kept in place by the launch rail. Once free of the rail when fired, the top fin would spring free and release the other seven fins.

The launchers were aimed with a slight upward angle of 8 degrees. When the rockets were fired from a range of 600 meters, they had the same ballistics as the Mk 108 cannons. The warhead was a 55 mm HE shell filled with Hexogen. A single hit was all that was needed to bring down a four engined bomber.
Title: Me-163 with R4Ms??
Post by: EagleDNY on August 28, 2006, 10:15:29 AM
The 262 A-2 with the R4Ms would be a wonderful addition.  Also we'd get the bonus of being able to load 2 bombs on it.  I'd love to see that added to the game.

EagleDNY
$.02
Title: Me-163 with R4Ms??
Post by: Reynolds on August 28, 2006, 03:28:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by EagleDNY
The 262 A-2 with the R4Ms would be a wonderful addition.  Also we'd get the bonus of being able to load 2 bombs on it.  I'd love to see that added to the game.

EagleDNY
$.02


There was no fighter-bomber. Hitler was a retard, so there was either a Bomber version or a Fighter version. There was no blended.
Title: Me-163 with R4Ms??
Post by: Krusty on August 28, 2006, 03:31:02 PM
The A-2 had 2x 30mm removed, leaving 2x 30mm in place. In that sense it was a fighter bomber, as it was a fighter that delivered bombs.

Hitler was quite mad though. His hatred for the jews stemmed from a jewish hooker giving him syphilis, basically. That was cause to mass-murder them? Totally mental.

EDIT: 262A-1 is a pig... I'd hate to see it with 2,000lbs slung under the nose! Whoa, nelly! Takeoff would be a beyotch.
Title: Me-163 with R4Ms??
Post by: ghi on August 28, 2006, 11:24:25 PM
Bachem Ba 349 Natter, was operational before the end of the war

(http://www.airventure.de/historypics/bachem_natter_einstieg1.jpg)(http://1000aircraftphotos.com/APS/3990L.jpg)
Title: Me-163 with R4Ms??
Post by: frank3 on August 29, 2006, 01:57:22 AM
Ah yes the Natter, its cockpit was very well armoured, while its nose had a breakable cone to shatter when the twenty-four 73mm Hs 217 Föhn (Storm) rockets were fired.

It never did bring down an allied bomber though
Title: Me-163 with R4Ms??
Post by: Furball on August 29, 2006, 02:18:26 AM
its unsure if they actually were operational either.
Title: Me-163 with R4Ms??
Post by: Lusche on August 29, 2006, 02:28:38 AM
The Ba-349 did not fly any combat sorties in WW2. And there was only one manned test flight in 1945 which resulted in the death of its pilot, Lothar Sieber.
After that, the whole project was disbanded.
Title: Me-163 with R4Ms??
Post by: frank3 on August 29, 2006, 07:25:36 AM
The idea was that the pilot bailed out at around 1400 meters, so that only the pilot and the engine were recovered from the aircraft.

They succesfully tested the plane with a dummy on board
But actually operational? I think not
Title: Me-163 with R4Ms??
Post by: Lusche on August 29, 2006, 07:41:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by frank3
T
But actually operational? I think not


They were not.
Title: Me-163 with R4Ms??
Post by: Viking on August 31, 2006, 06:04:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Hitler was quite mad though. His hatred for the jews stemmed from a jewish hooker giving him syphilis, basically. That was cause to mass-murder them? Totally mental.


Hitler was very close to his mother. She was slowly tortured to death by medical malpractice trying to cure her from cancer. The experimenting doctor was Jewish. Hitler got his revenge, and then some.
Title: Me-163 with R4Ms??
Post by: Reynolds on August 31, 2006, 09:56:15 PM
So... never piss off a german??? lol.
Title: Me-163 with R4Ms??
Post by: Krusty on August 31, 2006, 11:18:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
Hitler was very close to his mother. She was slowly tortured to death by medical malpractice trying to cure her from cancer. The experimenting doctor was Jewish. Hitler got his revenge, and then some.


He also saw a personal physician once he learned that the doc specialized in syphilis, and he exhibited the symptoms of late-stages of the disease. Supposedly he contracted it while young, from a jewish lady/fling/prostitute, all before writing his book.
Title: Me-163 with R4Ms??
Post by: Reynolds on September 01, 2006, 03:51:20 AM
Okay...
Title: Me-163 with R4Ms??
Post by: Furball on September 01, 2006, 01:07:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Reynolds
So... never piss off a german??? lol.


he was austrian
Title: Me-163 with R4Ms??
Post by: Lusche on September 01, 2006, 01:50:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
he was austrian


true, but  he was a austrian citizen only until 1925 and german citizen since 1932
Title: Me-163 with R4Ms??
Post by: Viking on September 01, 2006, 08:07:13 PM
So what was he in the period 1926-1931?
Title: Me-163 with R4Ms??
Post by: Lusche on September 01, 2006, 08:13:23 PM
A stateless person
Title: Me-163 with R4Ms??
Post by: Viking on September 01, 2006, 08:50:50 PM
Why did he lose his Austrian citizenship?
Title: Me-163 with R4Ms??
Post by: Lusche on September 01, 2006, 09:08:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
Why did he lose his Austrian citizenship?


He did not lose it, he voluntary renounced it . He despised the old empire of austria-hungary as well as the new austrian republic. He went to germany before world war one and was serving in the bavarian army during the war.

But I think we are now really hijacking the thread - so better back to appropirate "Aircraft and Vehicles" discussion ;)
Title: Me-163 with R4Ms??
Post by: Viking on September 01, 2006, 09:12:02 PM
Ok I see. Thanks :)