Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: xrtoronto on August 20, 2006, 06:05:28 PM
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The alliance between George Bush and Tony Blair is in danger after it was revealed that the Prime Minister believes the President has 'let him down badly' over the Middle East crisis.
A senior Downing Street source said that, privately, Mr Blair broadly agrees with John Prescott, who said Mr Bush's record on the issue was 'crap'.
The source said: "We all feel badly let down by Bush. We thought we had persuaded him to take the Israel-Palestine situation seriously, but we were wrong. How can anyone have faith in a man of such low intellect?"
The disclosure comes ahead of a mini recall of Parliament to allow MPs to vent their fury over Mr Blair's handling of Israel's war with Hezbollah and whether the recent terror plot in Britain was affected by his role in the Iraq war.
Foreign Affairs Minister Kim Howells, who has criticised Israeli attacks on women and children, is to be summoned before an emergency meeting next month of the Labour-dominated Commons foreign affairs select committee.
The highly unusual move to allow a Parliament evidence session during the summer recess mirrors emergency meetings called after the July 7 bombings in London.
The rift between No10 and the White House stems from British anger that Mr Bush failed to do enough to pursue the 'road map' to peace between the Israelis and Palestinians, which he approved, at Mr Blair's instigation, on the eve of the Iraq war.
"We have been banging on at them for three years about the need to address the Palestinian problem but they just won't engage," said a senior Government insider. "That is one of the reasons there is such a mess now."
It is understood Mr Blair hopes to undertake a highly controversial one-man mission to the Middle East when he returns from his holiday, including a trip to war-torn Lebanon.
Until now, the Prime Minister has given Mr Bush 100 per cent backing on all foreign policy issues since the Iraq war in 2003. But Mr Blair's refusal to distance himself publicly from the White House's all-out support for Israel's attacks on Hezbollah guerillas in Lebanon has enraged Labour MPs and several Ministers.
However, a Downing Street official said: "We believe our best approach is to use our influence with the American government to persuade them of the importance of making progress to achieve peace in the Middle East."
Mr Blair's advisers say his portrayal by critics as Mr Bush's 'poodle' is a travesty and claim he gets results by hammering out their differences in private.
But they do not deny that, behind the facade of public support, Downing Street's patience with Mr Bush has never been stretched so far.
The decision by the foreign affairs committee to stage its emergency debate on September 13 - after Mr Blair opposed calls for a full recall of Parliament - is a further reflection of backbench unrest.
MPs have been demanding that the Government explains its stance on the crisis, which saw Mr Blair back Israel's use of force against Hezbollah militants in Lebanon which has left hundreds of civilians dead and thousands homeless.
Mr Howells will be questioned over the Government's handling of the crisis, which has seen the Cabinet deeply divided over Israel's actions. He will also be asked to update MPs on the latest UN peacekeeping efforts which will see thousands of international troops deployed into a buffer zone on the Israel-Lebanon border.
Labour committee member Eric Illsley confirmed that the committee would take evidence from Mr Howells on September 13. He said: "There has been a public clamour for a full recall of Parliament."
Meanwhile John Prescott has been involved in another foul-mouthed incident over Tony Blair's policy on the Middle East, it was claimed last night.
He is said to have had a heated exchange with Lord Chancellor Lord Falconer, one of the few Cabinet Ministers to defend Mr Blair's stance on Israel's war with Hezbollah, when the conflict was raised during a Cabinet meeting and Lord Falconer denied that Ministers had disagreed on the issue.
Mr Prescott, one of the Ministers who led the revolt, allegedly snapped at Lord Falconer: "Of course they f****** did, you were f****** there."
c&p (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=401414&in_page_id=1770&in_a_source=)
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All that diatribe about the nasty Isreali's defending themselves and not a single word about the innitial attacks by hamas or hezbollah. HHmmm very interesting.
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Deffending?Leveling half of Lebanon you call defending?Does anybody know on what territory those two Israeli's were "kidnaped"?
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Yup, they leveled half of Lebanon.
There are a few reasons for this.
One is to teach Lebanon the consequences of allowing a rogue militant force access to its territory to launch attacks at Israel and another is that when Hezbolla strikes again (notice I said 'when' because it's going to happen) the other half of Lebanon will be flattened.
Perhaps Lebanon will put a short leash on Hezbolla.
Doubtful but thats the message from Israel.
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
A senior Downing Street source said that, privately,
well, my un-named washington source says privately that your source is full of balderdash.
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Bush is taking it a lot more seriously than Chirac. What was it I read? France said they would command the UN force but not send more than 200 troops? I guess now they've upped that to 400. What a joke.
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Let's see.....with a UN force in place Hezbollah brought in 10,000 rockets. Now with a new "French led" force and Lebanese military (1/3 of whom are purportedly Hezbollah) it's going to be different??????? The only difference is the more sophisticated ord that Iran will supply now & the difficulty of stepping over all the white flags the French will bring.
-MI-
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there is more going on than meets the eye as far as Bush and Blair are concerned....both those guys are owned by the Saudis.
The one thing that pissed me off more than any other about Bush is seeing him holding hands with Saudi royalty. The President of the United States is subserviant to a Saudi prince. I suspect Blair is in similar circumstances.
Dont let muslim nations build a nuclear arsenal.
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Originally posted by MIShill
Let's see.....with a UN force in place Hezbollah brought in 10,000 rockets. Now with a new "French led" force and Lebanese military (1/3 of whom are purportedly Hezbollah) it's going to be different??????? The only difference is the more sophisticated ord that Iran will supply now & the difficulty of stepping over all the white flags the French will bring.
-MI-
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Originally posted by KgB
Deffending?Leveling half of Lebanon you call defending?Does anybody know on what territory those two Israeli's were "kidnaped"?
Give me a ****ing break.
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Originally posted by MIShill
Let's see.....with a UN force in place Hezbollah brought in 10,000 rockets. Now with a new "French led" force and Lebanese military (1/3 of whom are purportedly Hezbollah) it's going to be different??????? The only difference is the more sophisticated ord that Iran will supply now & the difficulty of stepping over all the white flags the French will bring.
-MI-
Actually I think France was in command of the UN force when the latest fighting started, didn't look it up, could be wrong. The UN has been totally ineffective in Lebanon in the last however many years. Looks like it will be more of the same.
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oh booooo hooooo.. "your president is soo stupid and all of ours are so sophisticated and smart and welll.... your-0-pean."
really... history shows that listening to you guys really makes a mess of things. Allways starting some war with some neighbor or another.
lazs
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
However, a Downing Street official said: "We believe our best approach is to use our influence with the American government to persuade them of the importance of making progress to achieve peace in the Middle East."
lols, what ****ing influence?
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Originally posted by lukster
Actually I think France was in command of the UN force when the latest fighting started, didn't look it up, could be wrong. The UN has been totally ineffective in Lebanon in the last however many years. Looks like it will be more of the same.
I think you're right but don't change the fact that the UN mandate/resolution make the soldier useless (even to pretect themselves !)
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Originally posted by straffo
I think you're right but don't change the fact that the UN mandate/resolution make the soldier useless (even to pretect themselves !)
Agreed, but all of the countries involved were responsible for this uslessness . However, France has now apparently gotten what it wanted today with permission to shoot as necessary. Will France step up and commit troops as Italy has offered to do?
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You all please bear in mind how small those territories are.
Half of Israel and Lebanon are within each other's artillery range.
I remember from another thread that someone said that the Lebanese army was totally undermanned to restrain the Hizbollah.
2 things about this. Land army AFAIK is 60.000 people.
That's not much less than the British army today AFAIK 80.000.
(there could be confusion with total numbers vs army only the brits have the RN, Marines I belive, Army and the RAF, - but come on, 60.000 is more than a show)
What it boils down is that the Lebanese let the Hizbollah follow their own way with arming up and attacking Israel from Lebanese soil, - they now have a bloody nose from the fight.
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Originally posted by KgB
Deffending?Leveling half of Lebanon you call defending?Does anybody know on what territory those two Israeli's were "kidnaped"?
AFAIK, only the Arabs are saying the captured soldiers were in Lebanon. Israel was behind the *blue line*, the boundary defined by the UN. Israel had the UN define the boundary just so there wouldnt be this type of problem. Doesnt matter what Israel does to try to avoid problems with the extremists. The extremists will create problems just to keep ongoing strife in the region.
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Originally posted by Elfie
AFAIK, only the Arabs are saying the captured soldiers were in Lebanon. Israel was behind the *blue line*, the boundary defined by the UN. Israel had the UN define the boundary just so there wouldnt be this type of problem. Doesnt matter what Israel does to try to avoid problems with the extremists. The extremists will create problems just to keep ongoing strife in the region.
Ever read Talmud?
1. Sanhedrin 59a: "Murdering Goyim is like killing a wild animal."
2. Abodah Zara 26b: "Even the best of the Gentiles should be killed."
3. Sanhedrin 59a: "A goy (Gentile) who pries into The Law (Talmud) is guilty of death."
4. Libbre David 37: "To communicate anything to a Goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly."
5. Libbre David 37: "If a Jew be called upon to explain any part of the rabbinic books, he ought to give only a false explanation. Who ever will violate this order shall be put to death."
6. Yebhamoth 11b: "Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is three years of age."
7. Schabouth Hag. 6d: "Jews may swear falsely by use of subterfuge wording."
8. Hilkkoth Akum X1: "Do not save Goyim in danger of death."
9. Hilkkoth Akum X1: "Show no mercy to the Goyim."
10. Choschen Hamm 388, 15: "If it can be proven that someone has given the money of Israelites to the Goyim, a way must be found after prudent consideration to wipe him off the face of the earth."
11. Choschen Hamm 266,1: "A Jew may keep anything he finds which belongs to the Akum (Gentile). For he who returns lost property (to Gentiles) sins against the Law by increasing the power of the transgressors of the Law. It is praiseworthy, however, to return lost property if it is done to honor the name of God, namely, if by so doing, Christians will praise the Jews and look upon them as honorable people."
12. Szaaloth-Utszabot, The Book of Jore Dia 17: "A Jew should and must make a false oath when the Goyim asks if our books contain anything against them."
13. Baba Necia 114, 6: "The Jews are human beings, but the nations of the world are not human beings but beasts."
14. Simeon Haddarsen, fol. 56-D: "When the Messiah comes every Jew will have 2800 slaves."
15. Nidrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L: "Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night."
16. Aboda Sarah 37a: "A Gentile girl who is three years old can be violated."
17. Gad. Shas. 2:2: "A Jew may violate but not marry a non-Jewish girl."
18. Tosefta. Aboda Zara B, 5: "If a goy kills a goy or a Jew, he is responsible; but if a Jew kills a goy, he is NOT responsible."
19. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 388: "It is permitted to kill a Jewish denunciator everywhere. It is permitted to kill him even before he denounces."
20. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348: "All property of other nations belongs to the Jewish nation, which, consequently, is entitled to seize upon it without any scruples."
21. Tosefta, Abda Zara VIII, 5: "How to interpret the word 'robbery.' A goy is forbidden to steal, rob, or take women slaves, etc., from a goy or from a Jew. But a Jew is NOT forbidden to do all this to a goy."
22. Seph. Jp., 92, 1: "God has given the Jews power over the possessions and blood of all
nations."
23. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 156: "When a Jew has a Gentile in his clutches,
another Jew may go to the same Gentile, lend him money and in turn deceive him, so that
the Gentile shall be ruined. For the property of a Gentile, according to our law, belongs to
no one, and the first Jew that passes has full right to seize it."
24. Schulchan Aruch, Johre Deah, 122: "A Jew is forbidden to drink from a glass of wine
which a Gentile has touched, because the touch has made the wine unclean."
25. Nedarim 23b: "He who desires that none of his vows made during the year be valid, let
him stand at the beginning of the year and declare, 'Every vow which I may make in the
future shall be null'. His vows are then invalid."
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Still wearing the sheet kgb? It suits you well.
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kgb
have u read the talmud?
whatever u find a neo-nazi website isn`t necessary the truth.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
lols, what ****ing influence?
Our PM's influence over Dubya's choice of knitwear (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/07/23/ngift23.xml&DCMP=EMC-new_23072006) obviously.
Beat that Canada. :cool:
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Personal I don’t share my politics with people that I hardly know on a computer game website. But I think George W Bush has let a lot more people down then just Tony Blair. himself, the American people and rest of the world come to mind.
I love the goodness of the American people, but your government is wank. How he got a second term I have no idea, what a banana ! The same applies to blair.
Did anyone else see George Galloway destroy Sky News on the topic Israel Vs Lebanon, the media will poison the world man !
George Galloway PWNING Sky News (http://heggle.com/item/380557/George_Galloway_PWNING_sky_news)
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Originally posted by KgB
Ever read Talmud?
1. Sanhedrin 59a: "Murdering Goyim is like killing a wild animal."
2. Abodah Zara 26b: "Even the best of the Gentiles should be killed."
3. Sanhedrin 59a: "A goy (Gentile) who pries into The Law (Talmud) is guilty of death."
4. Libbre David 37: "To communicate anything to a Goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly."
5. Libbre David 37: "If a Jew be called upon to explain any part of the rabbinic books, he ought to give only a false explanation. Who ever will violate this order shall be put to death."
6. Yebhamoth 11b: "Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is three years of age."
7. Schabouth Hag. 6d: "Jews may swear falsely by use of subterfuge wording."
8. Hilkkoth Akum X1: "Do not save Goyim in danger of death."
9. Hilkkoth Akum X1: "Show no mercy to the Goyim."
10. Choschen Hamm 388, 15: "If it can be proven that someone has given the money of Israelites to the Goyim, a way must be found after prudent consideration to wipe him off the face of the earth."
11. Choschen Hamm 266,1: "A Jew may keep anything he finds which belongs to the Akum (Gentile). For he who returns lost property (to Gentiles) sins against the Law by increasing the power of the transgressors of the Law. It is praiseworthy, however, to return lost property if it is done to honor the name of God, namely, if by so doing, Christians will praise the Jews and look upon them as honorable people."
12. Szaaloth-Utszabot, The Book of Jore Dia 17: "A Jew should and must make a false oath when the Goyim asks if our books contain anything against them."
13. Baba Necia 114, 6: "The Jews are human beings, but the nations of the world are not human beings but beasts."
14. Simeon Haddarsen, fol. 56-D: "When the Messiah comes every Jew will have 2800 slaves."
15. Nidrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L: "Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night."
16. Aboda Sarah 37a: "A Gentile girl who is three years old can be violated."
17. Gad. Shas. 2:2: "A Jew may violate but not marry a non-Jewish girl."
18. Tosefta. Aboda Zara B, 5: "If a goy kills a goy or a Jew, he is responsible; but if a Jew kills a goy, he is NOT responsible."
19. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 388: "It is permitted to kill a Jewish denunciator everywhere. It is permitted to kill him even before he denounces."
20. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348: "All property of other nations belongs to the Jewish nation, which, consequently, is entitled to seize upon it without any scruples."
21. Tosefta, Abda Zara VIII, 5: "How to interpret the word 'robbery.' A goy is forbidden to steal, rob, or take women slaves, etc., from a goy or from a Jew. But a Jew is NOT forbidden to do all this to a goy."
22. Seph. Jp., 92, 1: "God has given the Jews power over the possessions and blood of all
nations."
23. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 156: "When a Jew has a Gentile in his clutches,
another Jew may go to the same Gentile, lend him money and in turn deceive him, so that
the Gentile shall be ruined. For the property of a Gentile, according to our law, belongs to
no one, and the first Jew that passes has full right to seize it."
24. Schulchan Aruch, Johre Deah, 122: "A Jew is forbidden to drink from a glass of wine
which a Gentile has touched, because the touch has made the wine unclean."
25. Nedarim 23b: "He who desires that none of his vows made during the year be valid, let
him stand at the beginning of the year and declare, 'Every vow which I may make in the
future shall be null'. His vows are then invalid."
From Wikipedia:
Some groups and individuals consider that passages in the Talmud show that Judaism is inherently racist. Critics of these charges argue that the passages in question do not indicate inherent racism on the part of the Talmud (and Judaism), but rather mistranslation, falsification, and selective choice of quotes out of context, on the part of those making the charges. The Anti-Defamation League's report on this topic states:
By selectively citing various passages from the Talmud and Midrash, polemicists have sought to demonstrate that Judaism espouses hatred for non-Jews (and specifically for Christians), and promotes obscenity, sexual perversion, and other immoral behavior. To make these passages serve their purposes, these polemicists frequently mistranslate them or cite them out of context (wholesale fabrication of passages is not unknown)...
In distorting the normative meanings of rabbinic texts, anti-Talmud writers frequently remove passages from their textual and historical contexts. Even when they present their citations accurately, they judge the passages based on contemporary moral standards, ignoring the fact that the majority of these passages were composed close to two thousand years ago by people living in cultures radically different from our own. They are thus able to ignore Judaism's long history of social progress and paint it instead as a primitive and parochial religion.
Those who attack the Talmud frequently cite ancient rabbinic sources without noting subsequent developments in Jewish thought, and without making a good-faith effort to consult with contemporary Jewish authorities who can explain the role of these sources in normative Jewish thought and practice.
Rabbi Gil Student, a prolific author on the internet, exposes anti-Talmud accusations and writes:
Anti-Talmud accusations have a long history dating back to the 13th century when the associates of the Inquisition attempted to defame Jews and their religion [see Yitzchak Baer, A History of Jews in Christian Spain, vol. I pp. 150-185]. The early material compiled by hateful preachers like Raymond Martini and Nicholas Donin remain the basis of all subsequent accusations against the Talmud. Some are true, most are false and based on quotations taken out of context, and some are total fabrications [see Baer, ch. 4 f. 54, 82 that it has been proven that Raymond Martini forged quotations]. On the Internet today we can find many of these old accusations being rehashed...
What does your wall of text have to do with your original comment and my response to it? I don't get it.
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Originally posted by Elfie
From Wikipedia:
Rabbi Gil Student, a prolific author on the internet, exposes anti-Talmud accusations and writes:
What does your wall of text have to do with your original comment and my response to it? I don't get it.
5. Libbre David 37: "If a Jew be called upon to explain any part of the rabbinic books, he ought to give only a false explanation. Who ever will violate this order shall be put to death."
It's just we believe in what we were told to believe.Nobody questions Israel,God forbid of being called anti-semite.
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Originally posted by ~Caligula~
kgb
have u read the talmud?
whatever u find a neo-nazi website isn`t necessary the truth.
What if it is?
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Originally posted by KgB
5. Libbre David 37: "If a Jew be called upon to explain any part of the rabbinic books, he ought to give only a false explanation. Who ever will violate this order shall be put to death."
It's just we believe in what we were told to believe.Nobody questions Israel,God forbid of being called anti-semite.
I'm guessing here, but that is probably another example of the Talmud being taken out of context. Some of our Israeli friends can probably enlighten us on the Talmud.
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the talmud records arguments on how to understand the laws of the torah (and much more). answers wouldn`t be complete without the different points from different people leading up to the conclusion. so if there`s a pass saying anything,it can be just one of the people arguing about a certain question, but it doesn`t necessary mean it`s what the talmud says the right thing to do.
at the time the talmud was written jews were living under roman occupation. roman law was that all nations under their rule have to accept the emperor as a god. jews would not accept that,revolted many times, and the romans placed very harsh rules over them. the hatred of gentiles in the talmud comes from that and it`s towards romans. i don`t see it`s being applied in today`s life.
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Originally posted by KgB
What if it is?
so u admit being a neo-nazi?
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Ah Caligula... the most tolerant and mis-understood dictatorial, genocidal Roman emperor.
Hail Caesar!
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Originally posted by ~Caligula~
so u admit being a neo-nazi?
lols x 2. The last desprite gambit.
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kgb is the shades account of who?
Whoever he is he really hates jews. Remember his Franklin "quote"?
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Originally posted by ~Caligula~
the talmud records arguments on how to understand the laws of the torah (and much more). answers wouldn`t be complete without the different points from different people leading up to the conclusion. so if there`s a pass saying anything,it can be just one of the people arguing about a certain question, but it doesn`t necessary mean it`s what the talmud says the right thing to do.
at the time the talmud was written jews were living under roman occupation. roman law was that all nations under their rule have to accept the emperor as a god. jews would not accept that,revolted many times, and the romans placed very harsh rules over them. the hatred of gentiles in the talmud comes from that and it`s towards romans. i don`t see it`s being applied in today`s life.
Makes sense to me.
This reminds me of how folks misquote, take out of context or flat out twist what the Bible says.
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Or the Qu'ran?
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Originally posted by Dowding
Or the Qu'ran?
I havent seen examples of that yet......but I dont doubt that it has happened.
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Pfffft..... Frikken Mortals.
Mac
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John Prescott and Lord Falconer, earlier today. The TV company cut to the weather after Prescott, leading with his left as a good socialist would, gave Falconer a quick jab to the mouth. What we didn't see was Falconer absorb the blow then give Prescott a real hammering to his now exposed ribs/beer gut. Great stuff.
(http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~bandr/prescott3.jpg)
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Originally posted by Kazaa
I love the goodness of the American people, but your government is wank. How he got a second term I have no idea, what a banana ! The same applies to blair.
He got a second term because the only other choice was a liberal Democrat.
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Someone ought to have taught Blair:
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.
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Originally posted by ~Caligula~
so u admit being a neo-nazi?
If i visit arab website's what would you call me,terrorist?
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Originally posted by Suave
Whoever he is he really hates jews.
I also dont like cristians and muslim's.I think every religion is full of crap.
Originally posted by Suave
Remember his Franklin "quote"?
Ok you got me there,heres another one
John 8:44 You [jews] belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies
No wonder they dont accept him as son of God:rofl
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Originally posted by Elfie
Makes sense to me.
This reminds me of how folks misquote, take out of context or flat out twist what the Bible says.
Religion and politicts dont mix together.Bush reads bible every day,somebody's gotta to tell him how it ends.
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Originally posted by KgB
Religion and politicts dont mix together.Bush reads bible every day,somebody's gotta to tell him how it ends.
Which episode ?
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why dont the israelis and arabs get together and fight their common enemy....
the sand in their shorts!
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Originally posted by KgB
If i visit arab website's what would you call me,terrorist?
if u quote from that site as something u think the truth..yes,or at least terrorist sympatizer
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Dang, I was just gonna check out the blogsides of whatever his name is (Iran guy).
Hallayallamalallah or summat :D
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Originally posted by ~Caligula~
if u quote from that site as something u think the truth..yes,or at least terrorist sympatizer
The better and far more likely situation is that he's just an idiot.
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An educated idiot is a worse thing than an ignorant one :O
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Originally posted by KgB
I also dont like cristians and muslim's.I think every religion is full of crap.
Ok you got me there,heres another one
John 8:44 You [jews] belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies
No wonder they dont accept him as son of God:rofl
Read the entire chapter, Christ is speaking to the scribes and pharisees in the Temple, not to the Jewish population in general.
If we add just the verses from John 8:38 to John 8:43, even that little bit puts verse 44 into context.
Joh 8:38 I speak the things which I have seen with my Father: and ye also do the things which ye heard from your father.
Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Our father is Abraham. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I heard from God: this did not Abraham.
Joh 8:41 Ye do the works of your father. They said unto him, We were not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I came forth and am come from God; for neither have I come of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.
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I get it now, the koran, taken in text, is gospel, talmud is "taken out of text"
lol, pretty convenient
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Originally posted by Sixpence
I get it now, the koran, taken in text, is gospel, talmud is "taken out of text"
lol, pretty convenient
Many things can be taken out of context. In the case of KGB's latest post in this thread, his quoting John 8:44 makes that one verse, by itself, look anti-Jewish, at least thats how he portrays it.
As far as the Talmud goes, it seems to be more of a history of arguements on how to understand the law as oppossed to being law. Big difference there. KGB cherry picked particular passages to make the Jewish people look bad. I don't have a copy of the Talmud, but if some of our Jewish friends could do as I did with Bible references, I think we'd see a much different picture.
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Originally posted by Elfie
Big difference there. KGB cherry picked particular passages to make the Jewish people look bad
And it's the same with the koran to make the arabs look bad. How many times have we seen quotes from the koran? I really don't care what either book says, they should write a new one. We won't fight, bomb, hate, etc., and live peacefully happily ever after(with chocolate dessert for everyone). Short and sweet.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
And it's the same with the koran to make the arabs look bad. How many times have we seen quotes from the koran? I really don't care what either book says, they should write a new one. We won't fight, bomb, hate, etc., and live peacefully happily ever after(with chocolate dessert for everyone). Short and sweet.
Like I said before, I dont doubt that the Koran has been misquoted either. I dont have a copy of the Koran to quote from like I do the Bible, and I'm not interested in purchasing one. Maybe you could buy one so you can do the quoting when the Koran is misquoted? ;)
The only person I have seen quoting the Koran on this board is Seagoon. Since he actually studied Islam and almost became a Muslim I think I'll trust his quotes. In other words, I trust Seagoon to not twist or manipulate the quotes from the Koran. I can't say the same for some people who intentionally cherry pick the Bible, Talmud or other sources.
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The more you study it, the more you can interpret it your own way, just like the bible. I have met many people, born agains, etc., they have all read and studied the bible and all interpret it their own way. And of course, every one of them insist their interpretation is the right one.
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When you study at a college/university like Seagoon did (one of my brothers went to Seminary school also), you tend to pick up the beliefs that are taught do you not? :)
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Originally posted by Elfie
When you study at a college/university like Seagoon did (one of my brothers went to Seminary school also), you tend to pick up the beliefs that are taught do you not? :)
You would think, but that is not always the case, you don't have to look far to find examples
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Originally posted by Sixpence
You would think, but that is not always the case, you don't have to look far to find examples
Thats why I phrased it:
tend to pick up the beliefs that are taught
;)
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Originally posted by Kazaa
Personal I don’t share my politics with people that I hardly know on a computer game website. But I think George W Bush has let a lot more people down then just Tony Blair. himself, the American people and rest of the world come to mind.
I love the goodness of the American people, but your government is wank. How he got a second term I have no idea, what a banana ! The same applies to blair.
Did anyone else see George Galloway destroy Sky News on the topic Israel Vs Lebanon, the media will poison the world man !
George Galloway PWNING Sky News (http://heggle.com/item/380557/George_Galloway_PWNING_sky_news)
Nice to know Neville Chamberlain is alive and well.
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